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Question about Hasselblad HTS 1.5

yaya

Active member
Well yaya - I was 'sold' an Aptus 75 because the Afi was only a few months away. I was 'told' that the Aptus would just go on to the Afi. 2 weeks after purchase your 75s was announced. I was told that I would be 'upgraded' at the same time as the Afi arrived for no cost - given the 'unfortunate timing' of my purchase.

Well I got tired of waiting after a year and half. I got angry that my free upgrade to 75s was no longer free. And I became very angry when informed that hmmm actually you cant use your back on the Afi. Then told that my camera was worth 1/3 of what I paid as a trade on the Afi.

This summarises a lot of to and fro.

Very disappointing.

There is more ..but well- what can I say except for those who wish to purchase these MFD systems - be very very careful who your dealer is.

Hope this helps yaya.

Best
Pete
Thank you Peter for this info and I am sorry that you were mislead, although it is hard for me to comment on the details as I was not involved.

What I can say on our part is that when we announced the AFi it was clear to us (and we made it clear to all our dealers, this is well documented) that this was going to be a new back with a new mount.

Regarding the Aptus 75S; when it was announced (at the same time as the AFi, during Photokina 2006), we did have a solution for those who were keen to be the first to place orders. We took orders for Aptus 75S and we provided (and invoiced for) Aptus 75. Then when the Aptus 75S was available, we swapped the backs and invoiced the difference in price.

I am assuming that since you bought the Aptus 75 a month before the announcement of the S series, nobody could have given you a "warning" simply because they did not know.

Of course this is my assumption but we can take this off line and dig deeper...although I have a feeling that this might not be of an interest to you anymore.

Thanks

Yair
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Well yaya - I was 'sold' an Aptus 75 because the Afi was only a few months away. I was 'told' that the Aptus would just go on to the Afi. 2 weeks after purchase your 75s was announced. I was told that I would be 'upgraded' at the same time as the Afi arrived for no cost - given the 'unfortunate timing' of my purchase.

Well I got tired of waiting after a year and half. I got angry that my free upgrade to 75s was no longer free. And I became very angry when informed that hmmm actually you cant use your back on the Afi. Then told that my camera was worth 1/3 of what I paid as a trade on the Afi.

This summarises a lot of to and fro.

Very disappointing.

There is more ..but well- what can I say except for those who wish to purchase these MFD systems - be very very careful who your dealer is.

Hope this helps yaya.

Best
Pete
These are words to the wise.

To clarify a couple things -

While I worked at PPR, we were told that the AFi would require a dedicated Aptus back, and would not be mountable from a previous generation Aptus. The issue that arose was the cost involved. And dealers knew about this right off, there was never any notion of a free upgrade. But once we saw the upgrade price, we knew the gravy train was over, and this was unexpected.

Regarding Aptus to Aptus S upgrades, there was never ever any mention of free upgrades there either. But while the Aptus to AFi unpgrade was a steep price, the Aptus to Aptus S upgrade was only $3,000 if ordered within the first 3 months, and then roughly $5,000 for the next 11 months after that.

With significant market saturation, much of the medium format product sold today is in the form of upgrades, perhaps 60% or higher. With that high a percentage, manufacturers cannot be profitable on the sweetheart deals of the past. And so, upgrade pricing has adapted within the last couple years to allow a more realistic profit to be made. Think about it. You trade in an Aptus 75S, and you would like to upgrade to an Aptus 10 for oh, say $5,000. Then Leaf owns the Aptus 75S, which has a street value of around $18k - $22K (just as an example). So, $22K plus $5K, how is Leaf going to make a profit selling a product which is $39K?

I have read multiple times of "my dealer promised that.......etc".

Any time you as a customer are holding your breath on a "promise" that is related to a yet un-released product or advancement, you should be very careful. For that matter, "promises" can be extracted from (for example), "I believe we are working on upgrading our sensitivity on the current lineup, I've heard 1 to 2 months out, but not sure". This type of statement from a dealer, or even a manufacturer can be miconstrued as a "promise", or a broken promise when said event does not materialize. And some dealers (and yes, also manufacturers) can be over-zealous in their enthusiasm for the as yet un-delivered mention.

On the other hand, if a dealer mentions any kind of promise as a done deal, hard fact, you should be very considerate of the source.

A promise is kind of a solemn committment to do something you say. A dealer cannot promise anything that a manufacturer will do. And even at the manufacturing level, with technology like this, developmental intentions can run into un-foreseen alteration or even tragedy.

It is best to remember that promises are only made on the future, not the present or past, and the future is not guaranteed.

It also might be a good idea that anytime anyone promises something, get it in writing with a condition on what happens if the promise is not met. I think you will see a reduction in the amount of promises with this policy...


Steve Hendrix
Phase One
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well said Steve . In this regards and on the same vein and being in business so long i don't believe a client actually paid me until the check actually cleared the bank. LOL

But seriously even on the posted prices that float around on the forums from any of the dealers. i truly don't believe any of it but as a good estimate again i don't consider anything fact until someone actually says write the check exactly for this amount. I don't mean any of this as a dig but far to often prices go up or special pricing may have been implemented since these prices are known on the forums and folks may add warranties , add to the order or delete certain things from the posted prices. Work closely with your dealers and get as many facts as you can and get pricing and upgrades as clearly as you listen to them and in writing if needed or better yet ask for a quote that is good for 30 days. And please not meant to inflame anyone but treat this stuff as estimations until it is very clear on what is coming or what you are really buying. Even get a quote from another dealer, like most things these days get 3 bids on what you want.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Yes - thanks for that realy good advice - much appreaciated I come away from the experience a much enlightened person.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I demo'd the HTS yesterday and I must admit, it's an impressive accessory. Small, and well-designed to allow +/- Tilt and Rise/Fall in the same axis, then rotate through 90 degrees so you can effect any combo of Swings and Shifts too. However, you cannot separate the axis of these movements, so swings/tilts and rise/fall/shift will always be co-axial. In that, it is not going to be as fully flexible as a view camera, but certainly offers most of the schleimpflug advantages. Current local retail price was $5400 US.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
I demo'd the HTS yesterday and I must admit, it's an impressive accessory. Small, and well-designed to allow +/- Tilt and Rise/Fall in the same axis, then rotate through 90 degrees so you can effect any combo of Swings and Shifts too. However, you cannot separate the axis of these movements, so swings/tilts and rise/fall/shift will always be co-axial. In that, it is not going to be as fully flexible as a view camera, but certainly offers most of the schleimpflug advantages. Current local retail price was $5400 US.
Isn't it nice?

On a related note Capture Integration is becoming the US distributor for Silvestri which will only add to the already dizzying array of wide angle and tilt-shift options. Especially the FlexiCam will pique some interest. We'll be posting more info once we've complete our testing. I know we are also looking for an immediate home for some of the inventory required to become the distributor.

The great part is I think each of these tools has a set of users for which it is the best solution. Each has a different combination of flexibility, IQ, and price.

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer | Personal Portfolio
 

smhoer

New member
I used the Silvestri SLV for a time a few years ago. Well machined and designed system. I only sold it when my first born arrived and I decided to sell off my less used systems. Having kids really impacted my ability to feed my gear addiction.
 

smhoer

New member
College? I am still in shock on the cost of soccer camp! Seriously though. I used to be able to afford multiple systems for different purposes. My favorite kits were 35mm for wildlife, P67 for landscape and Lihof 617 for pans. Now I am looking to get one system versatile enough to cover all my landscape needs. Still deciding between a used p45/AFD body, Mamiya l28 pkg or even the H3DII (the high cost/size of lenses puts it last). Our company just announced our earnings this week. They were high enough my bonus kicked in so I will be getting one or the other late Dec or early Jan. Unless of course soccer camp rates go up.
 

yaya

Active member
Isn't it nice?

On a related note Capture Integration is becoming the US distributor for Silvestri which will only add to the already dizzying array of wide angle and tilt-shift options. Especially the FlexiCam will pique some interest. We'll be posting more info once we've complete our testing. I know we are also looking for an immediate home for some of the inventory required to become the distributor.

The great part is I think each of these tools has a set of users for which it is the best solution. Each has a different combination of flexibility, IQ, and price.

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer | Personal Portfolio
Good call on Silvestri Doug, I know they've been looking for someone in the US for some time.

Vincenzo and Silvia are very nice to deal with and very responsive. And don't forget that they now have an AFi adapter for the Bicam and soon for the Flexicam as well:clap:

cheers
yair
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Love to try the Flexicam myself. Maybe at our winter workshop which we are announcing today would be a perfect application for it.
 

lance_schad

Workshop Member
I am sure we will be able to arrange to have the Silvestri there along with some other gear as well.

We already have a Flexicam in the field with one of our P45+ users and he has been using it along side is Sinar P3 and he is happy with the build and image quality. He is using the 45/45/65mm Rodenstock lenses and their sliding adapter as well.

If anyone has any questions on the Silvestri system please send them our way and we will get them answered for you ASAP.

Lance
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
That would be great Lance . Also leaf maybe at the workshop also. Be nice for folks to try all this stuff out. I will most likely have access to leica gear or leica rep maybe there as well. One of the benefits of the workshops is a chance to see this stuff live and in person plus get a chance to demo it.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I'm posting tis for Fernando. He is having forum trouble posting but anyway appreciate if anyone can help him out some. Thanks Guy

Thanks Guy,

By the way i posted a couple of replies and a thread with out succes.
Maybe you can help me out :

Dear Support:

I had been trying to make an interpolation from a file captured with an CWD system through Phocus 1.1 and a new MBP 2.4 Ghz Intel core @ duo with 4 Go RAM.

Unfortunely all my customizing options of sizes hadn't rewarded my efforts.

I'm currently in Mexico City and yesterday i meet Mic & Bruce from Hasselblad during a presentation of the new H3D II and Phocus software.

They couldn't mention to me from where this issue can be come and how to solve it and recommend me to get in contact with you.

I'm including hereby a few screenshoots showing all my sequence from the capture to the final exportation.

So far, what i've got is always the same TIFF 16 file at the native resolution from the digital back without any increase on size and weigth.

Thank you very much for your atention and help.

Looking forward to hear from you and whishig all best regards.


--
FERNANDO ETULAIN
web.mac.com/fernandoetulain
fernandoetulain.blogspot.com
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Fernando look on bottom left for new replay hit that . Than write what you need and hit submit reply. Try that and it should work make sure you are logged in though
 

eleanorbrown

New member
I have been very interested in the HTS 1.5 for use with my H2 and P45+ hopefully soon to be 65+ but haven't been able to get much practical information on the files shot with this new adaptor. As a former 4X5 film shooter and also Hasselblad V system with their flexbody, the idea that I can use my Hasselblad primes with tilts, etc is very seductive indeed. I am concerned about image degradation however because I did try the Hasselblad 1.7 converter with these same primes, did some (very) serious pixel peeping from my 45+ and found that the files did show compromises in resolution when compared to shots done without the 1.7 converter. I ended up sending the 1.7 back to B&H for return and purchasing another prime lens instead. anyone know where sample RAW files are available from the HTS 1.5 ? thanks, Eleanor


Nope it was a 1.1 chip (39)


Correct on -1.3 stops. And yes you would expect image degradation with 6 elements but I couldn't see it. This mirrors the experiences of people using the 1.7X converter (also 6 elements).


Nick-T
 
A

Amery

Guest
PDN posted a review a couple of days ago of the HTS here:

http://www.pdngearguide.com/gearguide/content_display/reviews/e3i3f5cf679b16352f6e3c156c72b916a74

they don't have any sample images, and all they say regarding sharpness is that the loss of light caused problems doing street shooting at sundown. I assume this is meant to be read as handheld shooting but they don't specifically say. Other than that and the crop factor they seemed to like it.

[edit] as a side note check out the arca-swiss M-Line Two Medium Format system. It might fit you better being a former 4x5 shooter.

http://www.pdngearguide.com/gearguide/content_display/reviews/e3i3f5cf679b16352f6ce5d8f04b071c0e7
 
Last edited:

mark1958

Member
one point is that there is some light loss through the viewfinder and in lower light it is sometimes hard to get exact focus. Otherwise.. it is a great tool
 
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