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Thread: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

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    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Hi Guys,

    I'm planning to get a wide angle lens for my view camera sooner or later and am contemplating on getting one of the lenses below. I will be using it in combination with my Aptus 22. Of course I plan to upgrade my back in the more distant future but would like to invest in a lens that might aswell work on a sensor with higher pixel density like a P45+.

    Maybe you can help me out by giving a brief review of these three lenses:
    Perhabs someone has used them and knows their limits.

    -Schneider Kreuznach Apo-Digitar XL 35mm f/5,6
    -Schneider Kreuznach Super Angulon XL 38mm f/5,6
    -Rodenstock/Sironar Apo-Grandagon 35mm f/4,5


    The large image circle (139mm!) of the SA 38mm does appeal to me but so does the opening of the Grandagon since I'm using a ground glass to focus.
    I've read that people consider the 35mm Apo-Digitar to be less ideally suited for higher megapixel backs but I would still rank it better than the Super Angulon and the Grandagon.

    So where to start? I know it's as always: Test for yourself.
    Anyway, I would like to hear your opinions first just to point me in some direction. Thanks.


    Regards,
    Max

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKißler View Post
    Hi Guys,

    Perhaps someone has used them and knows their limits.

    -Schneider Kreuznach Apo-Digitar XL 35mm f/5,6
    -Schneider Kreuznach Super Angulon XL 38mm f/5,6
    -Rodenstock/Sironar Apo-Grandagon 35mm f/4,5


    The large image circle (139mm!) of the SA 38mm does appeal to me but so does the opening of the Grandagon since I'm using a ground glass to focus.
    I've read that people consider the 35mm Apo-Digitar to be less ideally suited for higher megapixel backs but I would still rank it better than the Super Angulon and the Grandagon.

    So where to start? I know it's as always: Test for yourself.
    Anyway, I would like to hear your opinions first just to point me in some direction. Thanks.


    Regards,
    Max
    How long is a piece of string?

    Asking opinions here will help you decide what you want - but you will get more specific advice if you tell us what you intend to do wi the lenses:

    Arch
    Landscape
    Movements
    Stitching

    You start by working out what you want, and then you buy it... or work out what you can afford, or spend years waiting for something suitable to come up on eBay!

    ...or buy something cheap and adequate and upgrade later?

    I think you would be lucky to find any of these lenses on eBay, but I found a 47XL. (100 degrees)

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    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Quote Originally Posted by dick View Post
    How long is a piece of string?

    Asking opinions here will help you decide what you want - but you will get more specific advice if you tell us what you intend to do wi the lenses:

    Arch
    Landscape
    Movements
    Stitching

    You start by working out what you want, and then you buy it... or work out what you can afford, or spend years waiting for something suitable to come up on eBay!

    ...or buy something cheap and adequate and upgrade later?

    I think you would be lucky to find any of these lenses on eBay, but I found a 47XL. (100 degrees)

    Hi Dick,

    excuse me, I thought it goes without saying that I intent to use a wide angle on a view camera primarily for architecture and landscapes. Stitching is very important to me and so are movements. I will be using tilts but shifts are of most importance.

    What I want is simply a lens of short focal length that, even being relatively cheap, delivers great results on my Aptus 22 and good results on any back with higher pixel density.

    I've seen all of these lenses on ebay, priced very fairly. For instance: Sinar Rodenstock 45mm f4.5 Apo-Sironar Digital MC Copal 0 | eBay

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    I lean to the SK 35 XL since it is a good lens on your back and will work great on a P45 as well and even a P40. The limts come with like a IQ 160 although still very workable but the IQ 180 i would not recommend with this lens. Now shifting will always be limited to some degree since the IC is not huge on these wide angles. If I remember correctly on my IQ 160 it was about 7mm of movement. I also recommend the center filter for it as this will even out your light and have less noise in the corners and it's easier on the software with your LCC. This lens is also around used for around 2500.00 or so. BTW it's a very sharp lens just a little older design for the older backs but still works very nice on the P40 for instance.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Thanks Guy. Well, in this case I will probably look at the less pricey yet good Rodenstock lenses...

    Does anybody know whether the older Apo-Grandagons for 120 film are identical to the newer Apo-Sironar-Digital lenses? It looks to me like they have simply added some FLs and adjusted the specsheet. The short FLs are identical and so are working apertures etc. Only the IC is reduced with the Apo-Sironar-Digital lenses, maybe in order to ensure that people use the sharpest area of the IC with digital that would have otherwise not mattered.

    Can anybody confirm this?

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    As Guys has pointed out, the SK 35XL is an outstanding lens, and works well on all of the backs, with maybe the exception of the IQ180, where shifts would be limited due to sever colorcast. This has been discussed extensively in various threads here (search for IQ180 and wide-angle lenses, or some variation thereof).

    The Apo-Grandagon and Super-Angulon lenses are really of the "film-generation", and will not resolve as well as the Apo-Digitar. Having said that, many people have used them with success on digital backs, especially the ones with 7-9u pixel pitch, like the Aptus 22 you have. However, if you intend to move into a higher resolution back in the future, you will be happier with the Apo-Digitar 35XL, I'm sure. It's what I use on an IQ140 (6u pixels).

    Cheers, -Peter
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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    I use the APO-GRANDAGON 4,5/45mm in ALPA mount + HPF rings with the CFV-39 back and get excellent results . I can use the full shift amount of the ALPA STC , that is 18mm to either direction , no problem at all .
    The shortest lens of the APO-SIRONAR-S was the 5,6/100 . I don't know , how Rodenstock changed the naming , but for sure , there has never been an APO-SIRONAR-S shorter than this 5,6/100 lens .
    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    I use the 35mm Apo-Grandagon f/4.5 with a Sinar 54H back and a Betterlight Super 6K-2 (cropped to 6x9) with excellent results. I expect you will get similar results with the Aptus 22.

    Kumar

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    As Guys has pointed out, the SK 35XL is an outstanding lens, and works well on all of the backs, with maybe the exception of the IQ180, where shifts would be limited due to sever colorcast. This has been discussed extensively in various threads here (search for IQ180 and wide-angle lenses, or some variation thereof).

    The Apo-Grandagon and Super-Angulon lenses are really of the "film-generation", and will not resolve as well as the Apo-Digitar. Having said that, many people have used them with success on digital backs, especially the ones with 7-9u pixel pitch, like the Aptus 22 you have. However, if you intend to move into a higher resolution back in the future, you will be happier with the Apo-Digitar 35XL, I'm sure. It's what I use on an IQ140 (6u pixels).

    Cheers, -Peter
    +1. The newer APO designs make a noticeable difference in resolution IMO. I use the SK 35 APO Digitar on my Alpa MAX with about 10mm of shift each direction on my P65+ and previously on my P45+.

    BTW, Alpa has discontinued this XL lens in favor of the new Rodenstocks (which are significantly more expensive from Alpa)...
    Best,
    Bob

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    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Jürgen, I was referring to the shorter FLs of the Apo-Sironar-Digital lenses that seem to be comparable to the Apo-Grandagons not the Sironar-S or N.

    If you compare page 22 here: http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/medi...3-26__8222.pdf

    And page 35 here: http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/medi...7-42__8221.pdf

    You will notice their similiarities. I mean if these are both apochromatic lens designs can I go wrong with any of them?

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    ...
    BTW, Alpa has discontinued this XL lens in favor of the new Rodenstocks (which are significantly more expensive from Alpa)...
    Best,
    Bob
    Actually it's still available in the Apo-Switar 36/5.6 XL dressing - it's the same lens, but with a 72mm "lens-shade". I believe the same price as the original SK lens from Alpa.

    Cheers, -Peter

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Max

    Sorry for the "misundetstanding" .
    The naming convention of Rodenstock always confused me , but I understand what you mean .
    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Max, of the three lenses you mention I only have experience with one - the SK XL35. The 35 was the lens I bought when I bought the WRS in the fall of 2008 and has been with me ever since. I first started using it with a P45 before switching to the P65 and finally the IQ160. I had more room for movements with the P45 than I currently do however the lack of movements (at least for me) isn't that great a deal.

    I've also been using a center filter on this lens and frankly have never taken it off other than to clean it.

    Just my 2¢

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    definitely not a cheap lens, but the rodenstock 32 mm is the ultimate in sharpness with a 90 degree image circle.
    I have three other lenses for my Arca Swiss RM3DI, but can't seem to take this lens off the camera. Superb with the HD450 back!
    Stanley

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Too bad, nobody seems to have used the 38mm super angulon. I'm really curious how this lens would perform on a DB. I guess I'll be trying to get either a 35mm or a 45mm Apo-Grandagon. The SK 35mm is just out of reach atm...

    Thanks for your replies.

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Max

    I have an APO-SIRONAR digital 35mm mounted on a recessed ARCA Board 110 mm . Its only used a couple of times . Its for sale .
    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Max

    I have an APO-SIRONAR digital 35mm mounted on a recessed ARCA Board 110 mm . Its only used a couple of times . Its for sale .
    I'll pm you.

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    i've test APO-SIRONAR digital 35 vs Digitar 35 XL...
    and went for the Digitar !
    The Apo sironar suffers from focusing shift, i hate it !

    Otherwise i'm quite happy with an APO-SIRONAR digital 45, an APO-SIRONAR digital 55... longer is the focal lens better is the lens !

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Another for the 35 XL Digitar. It is my favorite lens on my Alpa and works well with my P25+, Aptus 65, P40+ and IQ160. Owning this lens was a reason not to go to the IQ180 as it falls apart with that back.

    I was shooting with a friend this weekend who has the Rodie 32 - stunning glass if you have the means ... Although big and 82mm filter.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Quote Originally Posted by archivue View Post
    i've test APO-SIRONAR digital 35 vs Digitar 35 XL...
    and went for the Digitar !
    The Apo sironar suffers from focusing shift, i hate it !
    Otherwise i'm quite happy with an APO-SIRONAR digital 45, an APO-SIRONAR digital 55... longer is the focal lens better is the lens !
    Archivue

    Can you please explain in detail what you mean by : suffers from focusing shift .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    I assume he means focus shift a la "Changes focus when changing aperture".

    Really only effects ground-glass shooters. Cambo, Arca, Alpa users calibrate their system (by screw, offset, or shim respectively) using their optimum aperture and only a very small number use ground glass for focusing.
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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Thanks Doug

    Sounds logical and could be an explanation .

    I am still curious what "Archivue" has got to say .
    I hope , he will read this update .
    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Hi Jürgen,

    maybe these links help to explain: Spherical aberration
    What is Focus Shift?

    I have experianced focus shift with a 40mm Summicron on an M8. I calibrated the rangefinder so that using f 2,8 was always dead on. But whenever I used f 2 focus would lie a bit up front and vice versa f 4 was too far behind. Increased depth of field compensated for the focus shift but it was annoying none the less.

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    Re: WA lenses for tech/view cameras / SK 35mm XL vs. SK 38mm XL vs. RS 35mm

    Thank you Max

    I had a quick look , and now , that requires a lot of reading and understanding . Very interesting in deed .
    I am sure , I will have to come up with some questions .
    Regards . Jürgen .
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