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Thread: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

  1. #51
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    Soooo glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks this every time they get re-posted in a new thread! TeeHeee!
    The place wouldn't be the same without them and said person always drums up a very lively conversation!

  2. #52
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    I can see a few places in my work where this unit could be useful. For example, I am doing a series of tight still-lifes as a part of my "urban decay" series (see my website for initial images). I'm travelling lots and this module might mean that my DF system (or the GX680) might not have to come with me just because I want to use one of my longer lenses. It could bring me much closer to my ideal of traveling with an ALPA-only kit, thus reducing the baggage dramas significantly.
    Also, all those guys banging on about how the bokeh from the Phase LS lenses isn't as smooth as lens XYZ etc because lens XYZ has 20+(!) diaphragm blades can now perhaps use said lens in some situations.
    Gotta get my head around what it's applications are for me, but I am very pleased to know that the versatility of the ALPA range just expanded yet again.
    Cheers,
    Siebel
    "In the end, it's all about the pictures"
    www.bryansiebel.com

  3. #53
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Stefan - the new Rodie 50mm is shown as the widest lens in Alpa mount.
    I'm struggling to get my head around this.

    From a theoretical perspective, there is surely no reason why there should be such a limit to the focal length of a lens that could be mounted on such a camera (right Stefan?)?

    So what's going on here? Why have a design with such a limitation?

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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    flange to focal plane distance has to accomodate more stuff
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    I'm struggling to get my head around this.

    From a theoretical perspective, there is surely no reason why there should be such a limit to the focal length of a lens that could be mounted on such a camera (right Stefan?)?

    So what's going on here? Why have a design with such a limitation?
    I think the 50 is now the widest lens that can be used with the SB 34 tilt/shift component in the Alpa lineup. This will change with their new 17mm SB mount and tilt/shift component...
    Bob

  6. #56
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    I am excited simply because of the development. Kudos to Alpa, Arca and to some extent Cambo for continuing to develop products over the last few years. Their volumes cannot be that high. The volumes of digital backs are not that high, and not many of those get fitted to a tech camera, let alone an Alpa. Here's to moving the ball forward.

    Certainly Sony and Nikon made some big advances this year. For some reason I don't have the same passion for the big companies in the big markets.

    I do not think this camera is for me, but that does not dampen my enthusiasm!

    Dave

  7. #57
    Senior Member rayyen's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Like a Transformer robot...
    I don't buy the idea...

  8. #58
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    So based on the new website, it looks like the following lenses will be available in short-barrel versions for the 17mm T/S:
    Schneider: 60mm, 75
    Rodenstock: 32, 40, 70

    Interesting that the Rodi 50mm uses the 34mm T/S adapter but the 70mm uses the 17mm.
    Alpa Tilt Lenses

    I think the new website still needs some tweaks. The page above is titled, "Schneider Shift Tilt Lenses," yet it includes both Rodenstock and Schneider lenses, and also includes lenses not available in short-barrel versions.

    Dave

  9. #59
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    As Dave states, there are two sets of short barrel lenses available in Alpa mount that will fit the FPS - 34mm mount and 17mm. The FPS camera is 17mm wide and so lenses need to be either 17mm short barrel mount directly to the body (17+17=34mm) or 34mm short barrel mount lenses with a 17mm spacer.

    Thus direct fit widest is 32mm in 17mm fitting. The Rodie 50mm is the shortest lens available in standard 34mm short barrel fitting.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  10. #60
    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Now , as the ALPA thunderstorm and lightning is over , the air becomes clean and fresh again .
    It is like in Beethovens 6th Symphony .
    I would like to thank the ALPA team for that great job they have done here .
    Congratulation . The job you have done deserves my highest respect .

    I do like the new internet presence , although there still seem to be some little bugs .

    I am still studying the technical details over again , to see if this FPS is what
    I should go for .
    But , there are also some concerns I have .

    I find the focal flange length calculation rather tricky and looking at the diagrams , I can see that there are obviously two different types of FPS adapters (11 + 17 ) and they look different to the multi-use/macro adapter . Therefore , in the moment , I do not see the possibility for SB17 lenses to be attached . Might be my thinking is wrong . This calls for a clarification .

    An other thing , which comes into my mind is : tolerances .
    As an example . Looking at ALPA 12 PLATFORM 2 or 3 , I see 6 mechanical connections from lens to digital back . (HASSELBLAD lenses as example)
    Shimming a digital back adapter , we are talking about possible measurements of 1/100 th of a millimeter . To keep this shimmed adjustment , there must not be any tolerance between all the adapters .
    Can this be achieved ? ? ?

    There will surely be many more questions in the near future .
    Looking forward for all the hopefully objective discussions .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  11. #61
    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    As Dave states, there are two sets of short barrel lenses available in Alpa mount that will fit the FPS - 34mm mount and 17mm. The FPS camera is 17mm wide and so lenses need to be either 17mm short barrel mount directly to the body (17+17=34mm) or 34mm short barrel mount lenses with a 17mm spacer.

    Thus direct fit widest is 32mm in 17mm fitting. The Rodie 50mm is the shortest lens available in standard 34mm short barrel fitting.
    Graham

    I can not follow your calculation .
    If I look at the diagrams 2 or 3 , I can see that there are different FPS adapters (11 +17) mm and also FPS tilt and swing adapters (11 + 17)
    and they all seem to differ from the multi-use macro adpters and the "normal" tilt/swing adapters .
    Also , the FPS type adapters always attach to the ALPA12FPS and not the other way round .
    This must be considered , when calculating the focal flange length , or in other words the number of adapters you need to attach a lens .
    I can not see a way to attach a SB17 lens yet .
    Please correct me , if my thinking is wrong .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  12. #62
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    I'm basing this on the diagrams for 12 FPS platform - it seems that SB34 lenses require 17mm of spacing when on the FPS body. That is achieved with either the FPS 17mm adapter, 17mm T/S adapter or 11+6mm adapter pair.

    For a SB17 lens, I would assume that you don't need any spacer on the FPS body since you'll already have the 17mm spacing inherent in the body itself.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  13. #63
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I'm basing this on the diagrams for 12 FPS platform - it seems that SB34 lenses require 17mm of spacing when on the FPS body. That is achieved with either the FPS 17mm adapter, 17mm T/S adapter or 11+6mm adapter pair.

    For a SB17 lens, I would assume that you don't need any spacer on the FPS body since you'll already have the 17mm spacing inherent in the body itself.

    Graham

    To me it looks as if you always need an FPS adapter , either FPS17 or FPS T/S17 or FPS11 + as the first adapter on the FPS .
    I think , you can not directly attach a SB17 to the ALPA12FPS .
    CANON EF and NIKON F mount not regarded .

    The ALPA12FPS and its adapters can not be found in the product list yet .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  14. #64
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Where's Thierry when you need him?

    I guess we'll see more clarification from Alpa. I don't personally see why you couldn't fit a SB17 lens directly on the body. The fittings on everything are the same. SB34mm - 17mm body = 17mm space. SB17 - 17mm body = no spacer required according to my logic. I'd be shocked if the whole idea of the 17mm spaced lenses fell apart on the wider glass with the new FPS body - that would be a dumb limitation.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  15. #65
    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Where's Thierry when you need him?

    I guess we'll see more clarification from Alpa. I don't personally see why you couldn't fit a SB17 lens directly on the body. The fittings on everything are the same. SB34mm - 17mm body = 17mm space. SB17 - 17mm body = no spacer required according to my logic. I'd be shocked if the whole idea of the 17mm spaced lenses fell apart on the wider glass with the new FPS body - that would be a dumb limitation.
    Yes Graham

    Clarification is required here . Might be the diagrams 2 or 3 are wrong or incomplete . With the HR 50 lens as the widest lens , The FPS would not make much sense to me .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  16. #66
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Although the math works out I think Jurgen is correct. The problem is the FPS has the standard female end on the back but a male connection on the front. So there does not seem to be any way to directly connect an SB17 lens. You need some sort of female/female adapter. Currently that F/F adapter is either the FPS 17 or a 12-series camera.

  17. #67
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Can't argue with that - I checked the diagrams and you're right that it's male on the body which certainly prevents a lens being mounted directly.

    Oh well ... maybe 50mm is the widest Alpa mount lens on that body after all.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  18. #68
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    I guess they had to choose between mounting a 12-series camera directly to allow shifts (the F/M FPS design they used) vs. a direct SB17 lens connection (a F/F FPS design).

    No problem though, we'll just call in John to make a 6mm F/F adapter for us.

    With a 0.01mm tolerance.

    Dave
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  19. #69
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    6 connections between lens and back for V lenses w(as highlighted by jotloob above) does seem rather excessive. But, the facility to shim back adapters (in two ways now) is because of lack of control over tolerances on the different digital backs. I think the concept here is that the tolerances of the Alpa 12 system are good enough that you can have 6 connections without any concern, no?

    I've finally managed to get my head around this system. So basically...

    Canon lenses can't be used if the FPS is used as a shutter module for another 12 camera.

    There seems to me no reason why you would ever want to use the FPS as a shutter module with the 12TC - the TC doesn't add anything into the mix, and it simply restricts your lens choice.

    In my view, you'd have to think long and hard about the merits of using it as a shutter module for another 12 series camera (presumably to get the benefits of shift), as opposed to having a Mirex-type tilt/shift adapter on the lens. I'm not going so far as to say that the lens-adapter route would always be preferable, but if you needed shift on a MF lens mounted to the FPS, you've basically got these options:

    1. Buy the FPS, and another Alpa 12 camera that shifts (granted - you may already have this), and the MF mount or
    2. Buy the FPS, the Canon mount, and mount your MF lens to the Canon mount with a Mirex-type adapter.

    You're going to be talking several thousand dollars worth of difference there to use the same lens with the same back. And if you go the Alpa+Alpa route, you are limited to only tilting and swinging on the vertical and horizontal axes, whereas (I believe) with the Mirex-type adapters, you can rotate the plane of tilt.

    I have to be honest and say that I was originally concerned about my recent HCam purchase when reading about the FPS. However, I'm not seeing many significant advantages that the FPS as a standalone camera has over the HCam.

    Perhaps the biggest advantage it is that it is a more modular system - when you buy an HCam, you have to decide on which fixed lens mount to have on the camera. There's no way to mount an Alpa lens to the B1 that I have. I think I can see now what the B2 will have - a modular lens mount system similar to the Alpa (or maybe even using the exact same system). Hopefully upgrades will be possible

    Finally, there's also the price question to consider.

    This is an Alpa, and it will be built like pretty much nothing else on Earth, and it is clearly a GORGEOUS piece of kit. But it is going to cost an absolute fortune, surely? Unless I've missed it, I don't believe a price has been announced yet, but I would be impressed if it came in at under $8K.

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

  20. #70
    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    An other question for me would be :

    If you have a SB17 lens and you attach that to a multi-use/macro adapter 17
    , does that make you a SB34 lens ? ? ? Which , if true , would give the answer for the above question . Then you could use your SB17 lens with all possible combinations of the ALPA12FPS .

    I think , it would be very helpful , to have more info here as well and have a kind of table to show the possible combinations .

    I can't find anything in the lens specs for that .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    An other question for me would be :

    If you have a SB17 lens and you attach that to a multi-use/macro adapter 17
    , does that make you a SB34 lens ? ? ? Which , if true , would give the answer for the above question . Then you could use your SB17 lens with all possible combinations of the ALPA12FPS .

    I think , it would be very helpful , to have more info here as well and have a kind of table to show the possible combinations .

    I can't find anything in the lens specs for that .
    Oops. Let me try that again.

    Doesn't it work the other way around?

    An SB34 lens is a lens whose barrel is 34mm shorter than normal, and so needs a 34mm adapter for it to focus to infinity.

    An SB17 lens is a lens whose barrel is 17mm shorter than normal, and so needs a 17mm adapter for it to focus to infinity.

    Thus, if you add a 17mm adapter to a SB17 lens, it has the same flange length as a normal lens. i.e. It does NOT become a SB34 lens.

  22. #72
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    FPS as a standalone body, the Canon mount and the trio Schneider T/S lenses 28, 50, 90 would make a really nice package. A medium format Cmos with live view on top and heaven is close.

    As a huge bonus in this setup would be the endless possibilities to try out vintage lenses through third party adapters Canon eos to....whatever...who knows, maybe an Olympus Zuiko lens from the 70's or a Zeiss/Contax pancake lens or something else would produce spectacular images (thinking more 'look' rather than mtf charts)

    I would also be keen on trying my Hasselblad CF350/5.6 or the other V lenses I have for that matter....

    A very very very cool device indeed!
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  23. #73
    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Oops. Let me try that again.

    Doesn't it work the other way around?

    An SB34 lens is a lens whose barrel is 34mm shorter than normal, and so needs a 34mm adapter for it to focus to infinity.

    An SB17 lens is a lens whose barrel is 17mm shorter than normal, and so needs a 17mm adapter for it to focus to infinity.

    Thus, if you add a 17mm adapter to a SB17 lens, it has the same flange length as a normal lens. i.e. It does NOT become a SB34 lens.
    Ok. Gerald . Sounds very logical .
    On the ALPA pages its also not mentioned , that it would give you a SB34 lens when adding a 17mm adapter to a SB17 lens .

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    FPS as a standalone body, the Canon mount and the trio Schneider T/S lenses 28, 50, 90 would make a really nice package. A medium format Cmos with live view on top and heaven is close.

    As a huge bonus in this setup would be the endless possibilities to try out vintage lenses through third party adapters Canon eos to....whatever...who knows, maybe an Olympus Zuiko lens from the 70's or a Zeiss/Contax pancake lens or something else would produce spectacular images (thinking more 'look' rather than mtf charts)

    I would also be keen on trying my Hasselblad CF350/5.6 or the other V lenses I have for that matter....

    A very very very cool device indeed!
    Dan , I agree , the FPS is a very cool tool . Its called a toolbox anyway .
    But in the moment it looks as if all benefits of the FPS can only be used with ALPA SB34 lenses and all the other glass like Nikon , Canon , Hasselblad etc , but not with SB17 lenses .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  24. #74
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Maybe this is the wideangle solution for the users that had serious issues with 80MP backs and the extreme wides from Schneider. So you can mount wideangles with telecentric extensions as they are used on SLR-MF cameras like the Mamiya (and hopefully some adapters for other brands soon?). Some of them even with tilt/shift.....


  25. #75
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    After returning home from a trip today and looking at the lens mount, it would be a straight forward task to design and build an adapter that held M/M faces together. It is just like a victaulic coupling that allows the two faces to mate against each other. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why they didn't do it already.

    Maybe a later release...

    Dave

  26. #76
    Member David Duffin's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    After returning home from a trip today and looking at the lens mount, it would be a straight forward task to design and build an adapter that held M/M faces together. It is just like a victaulic coupling that allows the two faces to mate against each other. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why they didn't do it already.

    Maybe a later release...
    Dave,

    Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks to me as if Alpa is planning special FPS adapters that are dual-female -- both a 17mm and a 17mm T/S. Hard to be sure from the size of the diagrams, though.

    http://www.alpa.ch/dms/products/came..._Platform2.pdf

    From what I can gather it'd be possible to use a 34mm SB lens with the 17mm TS adapter, the new FPS unit, and an IQ180 as a complete rig for tilt-only applications, no?

    David
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    That seems right, David. I guess there's a reason the new cam's front mount is male rather than the female mount used in the other ALPA's, but I can't tell from what they've posted so far.

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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Surely the reason for the front mount of the FPS being male is because the rear mount of the other cameras is female?

  29. #79
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Good answer. That allows for use of the FPS as a shutter module with a body that allows movements.

    But it sure adds to the cost, requiring different spacers for different setups.

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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Indeed (see post 69 in this thread for my thoughts).

    But it would be gorgeous though

  31. #81
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    I agree, Gerald, the FPS might make sense if there are good enough T/S lenses in Canon or Nikon mount, but if you have to pay for all the bits, it's hard to see how it makes sense as an adjunct to a Max or STC.

    You'd need 34mm SB lenses, a 17mm FPS adapter, and a 34mm adapter if you want to use the lenses without the FPS.

    Steve

    P.S. But it certainly is beautiful.

  32. #82
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by David Duffin View Post
    Dave,

    Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks to me as if Alpa is planning special FPS adapters that are dual-female -- both a 17mm and a 17mm T/S. Hard to be sure from the size of the diagrams, though.

    http://www.alpa.ch/dms/products/came..._Platform2.pdf

    From what I can gather it'd be possible to use a 34mm SB lens with the 17mm TS adapter, the new FPS unit, and an IQ180 as a complete rig for tilt-only applications, no?

    David
    Yes I too think that is correct. What we were trying to figure out is whether there was any way to mount an SB17 lens on this camera. It does not appear there is an adapter to do so in any of the literature provided so far. The dimensions work out, but you end up with a male to male connection at the front of the camera.

    Stephen, I think the choice on a male front to the FPS was for two reasons:
    1. As Gerald pointed out, the camera appears to really have existing 12-series customers in mind. Anyone with a 12 can simply buy one 6mm adapter and have shift with any SB34 lens, plus any other non-Alpa system lenses (with appropriate adapter).

    2. I still think there is the possibility in the future to design a coupling to mate male to male faces without adding length. That would allow 17SB lenses to be used. However, if the FPS had a female end, that would probably not be possible. In my head it would be exceedingly difficult to design a female to female nipple that did not add length.

    Dave

  33. #83
    Member David Duffin's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Yes I too think that is correct. What we were trying to figure out is whether there was any way to mount an SB17 lens on this camera. It does not appear there is an adapter to do so in any of the literature provided so far. The dimensions work out, but you end up with a male to male connection at the front of the camera.
    Dave,

    A good part of the joy for me using the Alpas is hearing the satisfying clinks when closing the body connectors. The dual-female 0mm adapter you propose would be wonderful

    David

  34. #84
    Member David Duffin's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    I agree, Gerald, the FPS might make sense if there are good enough T/S lenses in Canon or Nikon mount, but if you have to pay for all the bits, it's hard to see how it makes sense as an adjunct to a Max or STC.
    Steve,

    I agree with you. If I had one of these, I'd usually want to use it as the camera body. The shutter speed display and the shutter button seem very convenient, and the whole thing looks great! And one can hope that the firmware is every bit as pristine as the hardware is likely to be

    David

  35. #85
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    I fail to see the validity of what must be a very narrow niche product as FPS.

    What Alpa should have done was revise STC to give it 25mm shifts to match 645 sensors for optimized right and left panoramic stitches. Plus of course given it proper dual handles.

    Above along with Alpas stupid pricing for Hong Kong and poor support by their there Beijing agent poses questions. Cambo is already significand cheaper and sold from my Leaf agent who will back me 500% of way in or outside warranty and with a call from anywhere I travel worldwide. The Cambo WRS-400 is an interesting new player and already offer 20mm shift compared to STC 18mm. I will take some time to think...

    Best regards,
    Anders

  36. #86
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    The handles would be for those hand held 25mm shifted shots?

  37. #87
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    I agree, Gerald, the FPS might make sense if there are good enough T/S lenses in Canon or Nikon mount, but if you have to pay for all the bits, it's hard to see how it makes sense as an adjunct to a Max or STC.

    You'd need 34mm SB lenses, a 17mm FPS adapter, and a 34mm adapter if you want to use the lenses without the FPS.

    Steve

    P.S. But it certainly is beautiful.

    I think this is the crossroads on this product. It seems to me maybe the better choice is a tech cam with the great Rodie and SK glass. If you are after image quality these Lenses will be much better than any Canon/Nikon lens. Cost wise given the FPS is expensive plus all the parts it just might be comparable to a tech cam. It certainly is a beautiful product but where does it really make the most sense in the overall image chain?

    Maybe I'm missing something.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  38. #88
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Guy - one of the things to consider is that products such as the Hartblei HCam and the Alpa FPS enable the previously impossible to be possible.

    Examples off the top of my head:

    17mm lens on full frame MF sensor.
    85mm f/1.2 delivering 63MP from a crop on FF MF sensor.
    100MP full spherical panorama from just 3 shots using a 12.5mm fisheye lens.
    Half-dome stills and timelapses 8000 pixels across with one shot.
    400/2.8, 500/4.0, 600/4.0, 800/5.6, 1200/5.6 lenses on MF. Not sure exactly how much of a crop yet (hope to be testing soon), but possibly considerable - even full - coverage when also used with teleconverters.
    Use of tech lenses with programmable focal plane shutter - electronic control of T exposures, time-delayed exposures, timelapses, panoramas when combined with something like the Seitz VR Drive.

    And I'm sure there are many more

    Kind regards,

    Gerald.

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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    The product fill the void of the Sinar M which is no longer in production (unfortunately) - and adds the 'benefits' of being able to use whatever glass you care to use for whatever reason(s) you may care to use it.

    I will buy it - if get tired waiting for a mint Sinar M outfit to come on the market.

  40. #90
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Guy - one of the things to consider is that products such as the Hartblei HCam and the Alpa FPS enable the previously impossible to be possible.

    Examples off the top of my head:

    17mm lens on full frame MF sensor.
    85mm f/1.2 delivering 63MP from a crop on FF MF sensor.
    100MP full spherical panorama from just 3 shots using a 12.5mm fisheye lens.
    Half-dome stills and timelapses 8000 pixels across with one shot.
    400/2.8, 500/4.0, 600/4.0, 800/5.6, 1200/5.6 lenses on MF. Not sure exactly how much of a crop yet (hope to be testing soon), but possibly considerable - even full - coverage when also used with teleconverters.
    Use of tech lenses with programmable focal plane shutter - electronic control of T exposures, time-delayed exposures, timelapses, panoramas when combined with something like the Seitz VR Drive.

    And I'm sure there are many more

    Kind regards,

    Gerald.

    Thanks I thought of some of them but not all.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  41. #91
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Had a long demo/look at the FPS today. This is a seriously impressive camera in the flesh.

    Will be going back tomorrow (Thursday). If anyone has any questions let me know and I'll do what I can to get answers.

    Regarding price, whilst there is no official comment, it was mentioned that the $8k guess is pretty close to what's expected. Availability? Expected to be in December.

  42. #92
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    I hope $8k is in the ballpark. I could live with that
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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  43. #93
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Graham - from what I heard, it is a very good ballpark figure.

    I'll try to press a little more tomorrow.

    Don't forget that you'll need to add lens mounts to that. I'm guessing something in the upper range of the $1000-1500 band for each adapter, and would be pleasantly surprised if they come in under that.

  44. #94
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Agreed on the extras needed but once you're in to a system (Alpa) it's nice to know that there are more options to try the plethora of alternative lens solutions.

    I need a wide T/S first but the FPS looks appealing long term.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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  45. #95
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Agreed on the extras needed but once you're in to a system (Alpa) it's nice to know that there are more options to try the plethora of alternative lens solutions.

    I need a wide T/S first but the FPS looks appealing long term.
    Don't forget: CI in Carmel (Pigs) is in February 2013. You'll need to take delivery before then.



    ken

  46. #96
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    There's a video showing the FPS at Photokina at LuLa: Photokina 2012

  47. #97
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Very interesting video in deed . IMO one of the most innovative products of the 2012 PHOTKINA . And beautifully engeneered .
    Next will be the question for pricing .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  48. #98
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    in "The Cutting Edge of Olde School"

    The camera on the right hand side.
    Is it a STC with a digital sliding back?

  49. #99
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    NO , it is NOT an STC with a sliding back .
    But I must admit , I did not understand the sliding , which can be seen in the video , as well . I will have to review the video .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  50. #100
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    Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Had a long demo/look at the FPS today. This is a seriously impressive camera in the flesh.

    Will be going back tomorrow (Thursday). If anyone has any questions let me know and I'll do what I can to get answers.

    Regarding price, whilst there is no official comment, it was mentioned that the $8k guess is pretty close to what's expected. Availability? Expected to be in December.

    Gerald

    Could you have an other look to the ALPA12FPS yet ? ? ?
    Could you possibly explain , what it is about that sliding operation , which can be seen in the video ? ? ?
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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