ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

[jotloob]

As Dave states, there are two sets of short barrel lenses available in Alpa mount that will fit the FPS - 34mm mount and 17mm. The FPS camera is 17mm wide and so lenses need to be either 17mm short barrel mount directly to the body (17+17=34mm) or 34mm short barrel mount lenses with a 17mm spacer.

Thus direct fit widest is 32mm in 17mm fitting. The Rodie 50mm is the shortest lens available in standard 34mm short barrel fitting.

Graham

I can not follow your calculation .
If I look at the diagrams 2 or 3 , I can see that there are different FPS adapters (11 +17) mm and also FPS tilt and swing adapters (11 + 17)
and they all seem to differ from the multi-use macro adpters and the "normal" tilt/swing adapters .
Also , the FPS type adapters always attach to the ALPA12FPS and not the other way round .
This must be considered , when calculating the focal flange length , or in other words the number of adapters you need to attach a lens .
I can not see a way to attach a SB17 lens yet .
Please correct me , if my thinking is wrong .

 

[GrahamWelland]

I'm basing this on the diagrams for 12 FPS platform - it seems that SB34 lenses require 17mm of spacing when on the FPS body. That is achieved with either the FPS 17mm adapter, 17mm T/S adapter or 11+6mm adapter pair.

For a SB17 lens, I would assume that you don't need any spacer on the FPS body since you'll already have the 17mm spacing inherent in the body itself.

 

[jotloob]

I'm basing this on the diagrams for 12 FPS platform - it seems that SB34 lenses require 17mm of spacing when on the FPS body. That is achieved with either the FPS 17mm adapter, 17mm T/S adapter or 11+6mm adapter pair.

For a SB17 lens, I would assume that you don't need any spacer on the FPS body since you'll already have the 17mm spacing inherent in the body itself.

Graham

To me it looks as if you always need an FPS adapter , either FPS17 or FPS T/S17 or FPS11 + as the first adapter on the FPS .
I think , you can not directly attach a SB17 to the ALPA12FPS .
CANON EF and NIKON F mount not regarded .

The ALPA12FPS and its adapters can not be found in the product list yet .

 

[GrahamWelland]

Where's Thierry when you need him?

I guess we'll see more clarification from Alpa. I don't personally see why you couldn't fit a SB17 lens directly on the body. The fittings on everything are the same. SB34mm - 17mm body = 17mm space. SB17 - 17mm body = no spacer required according to my logic. I'd be shocked if the whole idea of the 17mm spaced lenses fell apart on the wider glass with the new FPS body - that would be a dumb limitation.

 

[jotloob]

Where's Thierry when you need him?

I guess we'll see more clarification from Alpa. I don't personally see why you couldn't fit a SB17 lens directly on the body. The fittings on everything are the same. SB34mm - 17mm body = 17mm space. SB17 - 17mm body = no spacer required according to my logic. I'd be shocked if the whole idea of the 17mm spaced lenses fell apart on the wider glass with the new FPS body - that would be a dumb limitation.

Yes Graham

Clarification is required here . Might be the diagrams 2 or 3 are wrong or incomplete . With the HR 50 lens as the widest lens , The FPS would not make much sense to me .

 

[dchew]

Although the math works out I think Jurgen is correct. The problem is the FPS has the standard female end on the back but a male connection on the front. So there does not seem to be any way to directly connect an SB17 lens. You need some sort of female/female adapter. Currently that F/F adapter is either the FPS 17 or a 12-series camera.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Can't argue with that - I checked the diagrams and you're right that it's male on the body which certainly prevents a lens being mounted directly.

Oh well ... maybe 50mm is the widest Alpa mount lens on that body after all.

 

[dchew]

I guess they had to choose between mounting a 12-series camera directly to allow shifts (the F/M FPS design they used) vs. a direct SB17 lens connection (a F/F FPS design).

No problem though, we'll just call in John to make a 6mm F/F adapter for us.

With a 0.01mm tolerance.

Dave

 

[gerald.d]

6 connections between lens and back for V lenses w(as highlighted by jotloob above) does seem rather excessive. But, the facility to shim back adapters (in two ways now) is because of lack of control over tolerances on the different digital backs. I think the concept here is that the tolerances of the Alpa 12 system are good enough that you can have 6 connections without any concern, no?

I've finally managed to get my head around this system. So basically...

Canon lenses can't be used if the FPS is used as a shutter module for another 12 camera.

There seems to me no reason why you would ever want to use the FPS as a shutter module with the 12TC - the TC doesn't add anything into the mix, and it simply restricts your lens choice.

In my view, you'd have to think long and hard about the merits of using it as a shutter module for another 12 series camera (presumably to get the benefits of shift), as opposed to having a Mirex-type tilt/shift adapter on the lens. I'm not going so far as to say that the lens-adapter route would always be preferable, but if you needed shift on a MF lens mounted to the FPS, you've basically got these options:

1. Buy the FPS, and another Alpa 12 camera that shifts (granted - you may already have this), and the MF mount or
2. Buy the FPS, the Canon mount, and mount your MF lens to the Canon mount with a Mirex-type adapter.

You're going to be talking several thousand dollars worth of difference there to use the same lens with the same back. And if you go the Alpa+Alpa route, you are limited to only tilting and swinging on the vertical and horizontal axes, whereas (I believe) with the Mirex-type adapters, you can rotate the plane of tilt.

I have to be honest and say that I was originally concerned about my recent HCam purchase when reading about the FPS. However, I'm not seeing many significant advantages that the FPS as a standalone camera has over the HCam.

Perhaps the biggest advantage it is that it is a more modular system - when you buy an HCam, you have to decide on which fixed lens mount to have on the camera. There's no way to mount an Alpa lens to the B1 that I have. I think I can see now what the B2 will have - a modular lens mount system similar to the Alpa (or maybe even using the exact same system). Hopefully upgrades will be possible

Finally, there's also the price question to consider.

This is an Alpa, and it will be built like pretty much nothing else on Earth, and it is clearly a GORGEOUS piece of kit. But it is going to cost an absolute fortune, surely? Unless I've missed it, I don't believe a price has been announced yet, but I would be impressed if it came in at under $8K.

Kind regards,


Gerald.

 

[jotloob]

An other question for me would be :

If you have a SB17 lens and you attach that to a multi-use/macro adapter 17
, does that make you a SB34 lens ? ? ? Which , if true , would give the answer for the above question . Then you could use your SB17 lens with all possible combinations of the ALPA12FPS .

I think , it would be very helpful , to have more info here as well and have a kind of table to show the possible combinations .

I can't find anything in the lens specs for that .

 

[gerald.d]

An other question for me would be :

If you have a SB17 lens and you attach that to a multi-use/macro adapter 17
, does that make you a SB34 lens ? ? ? Which , if true , would give the answer for the above question . Then you could use your SB17 lens with all possible combinations of the ALPA12FPS .

I think , it would be very helpful , to have more info here as well and have a kind of table to show the possible combinations .

I can't find anything in the lens specs for that .

Oops. Let me try that again.

Doesn't it work the other way around?

An SB34 lens is a lens whose barrel is 34mm shorter than normal, and so needs a 34mm adapter for it to focus to infinity.

An SB17 lens is a lens whose barrel is 17mm shorter than normal, and so needs a 17mm adapter for it to focus to infinity.

Thus, if you add a 17mm adapter to a SB17 lens, it has the same flange length as a normal lens. i.e. It does NOT become a SB34 lens.

 

[danlindberg]

FPS as a standalone body, the Canon mount and the trio Schneider T/S lenses 28, 50, 90 would make a really nice package. A medium format Cmos with live view on top and heaven is close.

As a huge bonus in this setup would be the endless possibilities to try out vintage lenses through third party adapters Canon eos to....whatever...who knows, maybe an Olympus Zuiko lens from the 70's or a Zeiss/Contax pancake lens or something else would produce spectacular images :grin: (thinking more 'look' rather than mtf charts)

I would also be keen on trying my Hasselblad CF350/5.6 :thumbup: or the other V lenses I have for that matter....

A very very very cool device indeed!

 

[jotloob]

Oops. Let me try that again.

Doesn't it work the other way around?

An SB34 lens is a lens whose barrel is 34mm shorter than normal, and so needs a 34mm adapter for it to focus to infinity.

An SB17 lens is a lens whose barrel is 17mm shorter than normal, and so needs a 17mm adapter for it to focus to infinity.

Thus, if you add a 17mm adapter to a SB17 lens, it has the same flange length as a normal lens. i.e. It does NOT become a SB34 lens.

Ok. Gerald . Sounds very logical .
On the ALPA pages its also not mentioned , that it would give you a SB34 lens when adding a 17mm adapter to a SB17 lens .

FPS as a standalone body, the Canon mount and the trio Schneider T/S lenses 28, 50, 90 would make a really nice package. A medium format Cmos with live view on top and heaven is close.

As a huge bonus in this setup would be the endless possibilities to try out vintage lenses through third party adapters Canon eos to....whatever...who knows, maybe an Olympus Zuiko lens from the 70's or a Zeiss/Contax pancake lens or something else would produce spectacular images :grin: (thinking more 'look' rather than mtf charts)

I would also be keen on trying my Hasselblad CF350/5.6 :thumbup: or the other V lenses I have for that matter....

A very very very cool device indeed!

Dan , I agree , the FPS is a very cool tool . Its called a toolbox anyway .
But in the moment it looks as if all benefits of the FPS can only be used with ALPA SB34 lenses and all the other glass like Nikon , Canon , Hasselblad etc , but not with SB17 lenses .

 

[smei_ch]

Maybe this is the wideangle solution for the users that had serious issues with 80MP backs and the extreme wides from Schneider. So you can mount wideangles with telecentric extensions as they are used on SLR-MF cameras like the Mamiya (and hopefully some adapters for other brands soon?). Some of them even with tilt/shift.....

 

[dchew]

After returning home from a trip today and looking at the lens mount, it would be a straight forward task to design and build an adapter that held M/M faces together. It is just like a victaulic coupling that allows the two faces to mate against each other. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why they didn't do it already.

Maybe a later release...

Dave

 

[David Duffin]

After returning home from a trip today and looking at the lens mount, it would be a straight forward task to design and build an adapter that held M/M faces together. It is just like a victaulic coupling that allows the two faces to mate against each other. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why they didn't do it already.

Maybe a later release...

Dave,

Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks to me as if Alpa is planning special FPS adapters that are dual-female -- both a 17mm and a 17mm T/S. Hard to be sure from the size of the diagrams, though.

http://www.alpa.ch/dms/products/cameras/fps/fps_schemen/ALPA_12_Platform2-pdf/ALPA_12_Platform2.pdf

From what I can gather it'd be possible to use a 34mm SB lens with the 17mm TS adapter, the new FPS unit, and an IQ180 as a complete rig for tilt-only applications, no?

David

 

[stephengilbert]

That seems right, David. I guess there's a reason the new cam's front mount is male rather than the female mount used in the other ALPA's, but I can't tell from what they've posted so far.

 

[gerald.d]

Surely the reason for the front mount of the FPS being male is because the rear mount of the other cameras is female?

 

[stephengilbert]

Good answer. That allows for use of the FPS as a shutter module with a body that allows movements.

But it sure adds to the cost, requiring different spacers for different setups.

 

[gerald.d]

Indeed (see post 69 in this thread for my thoughts).

But it would be gorgeous though