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Thread: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

  1. #1
    Super Duper
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    any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    How good do you guys get along with the P21(+) and specially with the crop of that sensor?
    Are you happy or do you often wish you would have gone for a larger sensor (p25+) for example?
    Thanks, Tom

  2. #2
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    Tom not sure you have seen this comparison to each Phase back but it is the same crop as the P30 plus units which I have shot and tested and the crop really did not bother me much, the only time it may is with the use of wide angles but even than the crop sensors once you get used to them like the M8 you just sort of forget it is a crop sensor.

    http://www.phaseone.com/Content/p1di...TechSpecs.aspx
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  3. #3
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    The real big difference between the P30 plus and P21 plus is 18 vs 31 mpx. But the P21 plus is faster .8 seconds compared to 1.25 seconds on shooting speed. The other difference is micro lenses and 6.8 vs 9 micron sensor. Plus a extra ISO stop ISO 1600 for the P30 plus.

    Now if the P21 Plus had ISO 1600 I would buy that sell my P25 Plus and get a P45 and have 2 backs. One for speed and one ultimate quality. I compromised and got the P25 Plus but if I had the money for two i would have done that and I still think about it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  4. #4
    Super Duper
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    Re: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    Yes Guy,
    I was aware that the P21+ and P30+ have the same crop, but the price for the P30+ is about the same (here in Germany) as for the P25+ and quit a bit more than for the P21+.
    I think to remember someone wrote that the Microlenses also have an effect like a weak aa-filter, meaning a slightly softer output. But I have no experience myself.
    Did you experience the same effect?
    If you would own 2 backs, why dont you go for a P45 and a P30+?


    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The real big difference between the P30 plus and P21 plus is 18 vs 31 mpx. But the P21 plus is faster .8 seconds compared to 1.25 seconds on shooting speed. The other difference is micro lenses and 6.8 vs 9 micron sensor. Plus a extra ISO stop ISO 1600 for the P30 plus.

    Now if the P21 Plus had ISO 1600 I would buy that sell my P25 Plus and get a P45 and have 2 backs. One for speed and one ultimate quality. I compromised and got the P25 Plus but if I had the money for two i would have done that and I still think about it.

  5. #5
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    The P30 plus and P45 are a little close in regards to mpx but I do not gain any real shooting speed that way with the P30 plus. The P21 plus is pretty fast at .8 seconds and for some stuff that would be very handy. Also some stuff 18 mpx is plenty. I do shoot events with MF so speed and high ISO would be a benefit. I guess you could say the P30 plus has some AA look to it to a degree but the detail is there for sure. The P25 and P30 are very close in detail. My problem or should I say i am a mixed bag as a shooter. There is no real one great solution because i shot a variety of things . Maybe my biggest reason for switching around is i am looking for the best solution for varies jobs. For folks like you that is not such a issue because you may only do 4 types of shooting and i am more the 12 types of work shooting. So i am a little harder to go by because my demands are a lot different. But I am a great source of info because of that . Okay pat on the head. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  6. #6
    jmvdigital
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    Re: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    I for one, have no problems or regrets with the crop factor of my P30+. It's all relative. Unless you have shot for upteen years with full-frame on 645 film, you won't have any expectations as to how wide a 45mm lens is. If it's not wide enough, go to 35mm, if that's not wide enough, go to the 28mm.

    My point I guess, is that the crop factor is really just an arbitrary factor that is only relative in dealing with exacting comparisons or difference between two sensors. I don't have the wider view of the 45+ sesnor, so I don't know or care about the difference. Shooting primes always requires foot zooming and framing anyway, a little crop factor won't change that. Guy may have to move in on some shots to get a bit tighter shot, whereas I might have to move back.

    I only see it as an issue if you have certain prereq's or you need the absolute widest widest view you can get, i.e., 28mm on the 1.1x sensors (or the P65+, hehe).

  7. #7
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    The one benefit to the crop sensor is you can see outside the frame even the P25 has that but I always liked that with my DMR and the M8. I like knowing what is outside for composition reasons. I agree if you don't know it will not effect you. To me lenses seem wider anyway than marked if you know what i mean
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  8. #8
    Super Duper
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    Re: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    I just read in another thread that the p21 also had microlenses and therefore was not great for T/S.
    Is this true and does the P21+ also has microlenses?
    I thought that P20+, p21+ and P25+ should have similar sensors, "just" with different sizes of the sensor.
    Tom

  9. #9
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    Hmmm looks like it does

    P 21+

    Imaging technology
    CCD: Less than full frame CCD
    Lens Factor: 1.3
    Resolution: 18 mega pixels
    Active pixels: 4904 x 3678 pixels
    CCD size effective: 44.2 x 33.1 mm
    Pixel size: 9 x 9
    Image ratio: 4:3
    Microlens on CCD: Yes
    Antiblooming: 10 f-stops
    Dynamic range: 12 f-stops

    Storage files
    Phase Ones IIQ RAW file format speeds up the image capture and file transfer. Increases the storage capacity by turning the full 16 bit image data into a compact RAW file format. The default IIQ RAW-large format is completely lossless.
    llQ small: 13 MB
    llQ large: 20 MB

    Output files
    Color depth: 16 bit per color
    Image file formats: TIFF-RGB, TIFF-CMYK, JPEG
    Color management: RGB, Embedded ICC profile, CMYK

    Sensitivity
    ISO: 100, 200, 400, 800

    Camera system
    Capture time: up to 0.8 sec./frame (depending on camera body)
    Storage security: Phase One 3S technology - Secure Storage System
    Battery type: 7.2 V Lithium Ion 2500mAh
    Battery lifetime: 5000 captures/4 hours
    Exposure time: 1/10,000 sec. up to 1 hour with XPose+ technology
    Live preview: Yes
    IR filter: Mounted on CCD
    Cooling system: Passive cooling and sleeping architecture
    Power up time: Less than 2 sec.
    Power: 8-33 V DC (from FireWire®)

    LCD screen
    Size: 2.2"
    Resolution: 230,400 pixels
    Viewing angle: 160º

    Models of P+ back
    Phase One H101: Hasselblad H1 and H2
    Hasselblad V: Hasselblad 555ELD, 533ELX, 503CW and 501CM
    Mamiya RB67 and RZ67 Pro II
    Mamiya 645: Mamiya 645AFD, 645AFDII, RZ67 Pro IID
    Contax 645: Contax 645AF
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  10. #10
    Super Duper
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    Re: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    Interesting, microlenses but still no ISO 1600...
    I am not exactly happy that it is a microlenses sensor...

  11. #11
    jmvdigital
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    Re: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    At 18mp, maybe it doesn't have ISO 1600 because it's an earlier sensor in the technological evolution?

  12. #12
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    Yes the 9 micron sensor i am almost certain is not made anymore from Kodak but I need confirmation on that . I think Hassy discontinued use of it . Someone may know better on this and will correct me hopefully
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  13. #13
    Super Duper
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    Re: any p21 or p21+ owners here?

    both , the P25+ and p20+ dont have micro lenses but are 9 microns as well.
    does the cfv have microlenses?

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