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Thread: tip about capture integration

  1. #1
    Paul66
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    tip about capture integration

    I am in the market to sell my like new DM28 kit with 80mm LS lens
    Well since they gave me a quote since I was having trouble with the other place I ordered the camera from, they will not even talk to me about buying my gear since I didn't buy it from them. The original store gave me a couple hundred off for making me wait a long time.

    I had explained that when I called about the quote in Nov but that made no difference
    I had never heard of CI until I had already ordered and had problems getting my camera from the other place!!!

  2. #2
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Biting my tongue on this topic...

    sadly you won't find much sympathy from some of the people here as quite a few of them are close friends with Dave/Steve/etc...

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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Why do you think a dealer is obligated to purchase used camera gear?

  4. #4
    Paul66
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    They buy used but said they wouldn't buy mine because I didn't buy from them

  5. #5
    Paul66
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    tell me what ya think, isn't that what forums are for?

  6. #6
    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Most likely you will do better to sell your kit here or over at Luminous-Landscape or ebay than you would selling to a dealer. I don't get why you'd be going to a dealer since fair price is established by the market which the dealer must sell into so if they buy then they have to buy lower than market in order to make it worthwhile. If you were a repeat customer they may do some favors that don't necessarily make financial sense but why should they?

    Dealers work really great for trade ups though!

  7. #7
    Paul66
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Need money asap and everyone goes on and on about how great and polite they are, well that sure wasn't the case today

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    Re: tip about capture integration

    In my experience they are great and polite to their customers

  9. #9
    Paul66
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Well today sure didn't give a warm fuzzy feeling about me ever becoming a customer or ever referring them again

  10. #10
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    This is just ridiculous. Have you tried other dealers as well so you can trash them?

    Unless I misunderstand your original post, you offered to sell your camera to CI and they said they weren't interested since you didn't buy it from them. Do you feel that this is unethical, or what? Why not sell it to the people you bought it from?

  11. #11
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    It was your decision not to be their customer

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    Re: tip about capture integration

    CI has been more then fair with me on every deal.
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  13. #13
    Paul66
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    I would have bought the camera from them if the original store had not come through with the one I originally ordered, I even explained that.

    Stephen the point I'm making is that it was not a very good customer service move to get an attitude like that, I wanted to go through them first since everyone spoke so highly of them.
    I can see I'm the bad guy on this forum but I'm just voicing my opinion, I figure this thread will be locked at any time.

    It's not like I'm quitting my business and if they would have even offered me a so so deal instead of getting snappy I would have done business with them in the near future, but oh well like I said, I'm the bad guy!

  14. #14
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    So this whole deal is based on someone at CI being "snappy?"

    Okay, I guess that's something you could complain about. It just seems like this is a tempest in a teapot.

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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Paul, you are not the bad guy. It's hard to sell DMF backs and people usually get frustrated. Especially the "cheap" ones (if 5,6 or 7 000 $ piece of equipment can be labeled as cheap) - Leaf Apus 6 and 7 precisely . I remember Shelby Lewis (member of this forum) having hard time selling his Leaf Aptus 6 even for 4000$. Maybe that's why Ci is not interested in your back. Why don't you offer it in Buy$Sell section?

  16. #16
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Be it CI or any dealer for that matter. The decision for anyone of them to buy used gear is totally up to what there needs may or not be at the time. For instance if they have 4 IQ 160 on hand the chance of them buying another maybe slim to none. Most dealers first and foremost want to only buy from there existing customers to help them out and get them in a new purchase plus they know the warranty on them and they are clean from any financial obligation. Seriously they have the option to buy or not and that is business driven not any ethics involved. Myself as a extremely good friend of CI's and big *** customer for instance they could not buy a couple of my backs from me as he was already loaded down , which i totally understand and accept wholeheartedly. Dealers buying used gear is also somewhat rare for some of them , some do not buy at all used. I'm not sure the problem here a dealer at there discretion can buy just like any of us. If we dont like the price , product or whatever we are NOT obligated to purchase. They have those same rights. Heck i have lights for sale right now , no one is obligated to buy them although I wish someone would and i did buy them from a dealer. I'm not even bothering to ask. ROTFLMAO

    BTW I got lost on the other guy and other guy thingy but no matter. Dealers can buy or not buy as they see fit.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  17. #17
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Unless you're in the market to upgrade with a dealer, you will most likely get a better price on your used MFDB selling it yourself. It does take time and effort, and of course, the market dictates how much and how fast it will sell. If you really do need the money asap, then unfortunately that means lowering your price to the benefit of those in the market to attract a quick sale.

    You're a "known" quantity (GetDPI family member) which I think goes a long way in selling higher priced items through the B&S forum. I'd try and list it here and over at LL.

    Don't forget forum protocol requires you to offer it first to Guy...

  18. #18
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Btw my post was not meant to be snippy if it reads that way. No one is obligated to buy was more my point but Ken is right you need cash fast the best way unfortunately is too lower the price. Believe me I know all about it. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  19. #19
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    "Ken is right you need cash fast the best way unfortunately is too lower the price. Believe me I know all about it."

    Right; if Guy's price is too high, wait ten minutes.
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  20. #20
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    15 the most. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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  21. #21
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    I just reread the original post and am a little confused. Which place did you get a quote from in November and what did it entail? Also if it was a quote to buy based on November (10-months ago) why would anyone expect any store to honor it from that long ago.

    Stores (camera, car, or gun) are in business to make money and historically always lowball a direct sales versus trade-in.

    We all have choices - we as businesses and pass on a deal just as we as customers have the choice to pass on a deal. It seems like the people you were originally trying to deal with came through in the end. All it took was patience. The best way to get more money is to sell it yourself. In the end you need to understand how patient you are (Guy isn't a good example).

    There are a couple dealers out there that I will never do business with no matter what. Then again in reading and rereading the original message I see it more than venting frustration that you may not have gotten what you felt was offered 10-months ago.

    Sorry, no sympathy here....
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    15 the most. Lol
    Dangit! I knew I should've waited a few more minutes before buying your hard case! (which was already an awesome deal)

  23. #23
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul66 View Post
    tell me what ya think, isn't that what forums are for?
    Uh, my simple answer is quit your whining about a dealer you never bought from and sell it back to the dealer you actually bought it from!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul66 View Post
    tell me what ya think, isn't that what forums are for?
    I think this might have been directed towards me for holding my tongue but I could be wrong...

    I'm biting my tongue as it's not really the forums business.

    I had some issues with CI that I'm not going into detail about.

    Instead of venting on the interwebz, I brought up my issues with them to them. Businesses as with anyone else needs feedback to improve. I've met Dave and Steve personally, they always want to do better...

  25. #25
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Perhaps the title should be Bitc...about CI rather that tip.

    Paul66 may be unaware of the great sums of time and money all of us have divested in the search for the ultimate image/experience/MF package. It may be worthwhile for those novices to realize that we have all had disappointments in the realm of moving up or down with digital cameras.

    I was talking to a colleague who had planned on buying a new M4/3 camera so he could use his older Olympus lenses...from the OM 1 era....was really excited until he found out that it would cost him 1K US dollars....totally shocked and decided against it. I imagine he spends more in a couple of days on vacation for dinner. I did not have the heart to tell him of the adapter I purchased to use Hasselblad HC lenses on the Leica S2...twice that amount.

    Situations change and at times we are stressed as financial stress may dictate a change in direction with a consumate loss of funds, dreams and desires. To assume that the other party is the obligate villain in this situation is poor logic. It would behoove us to look for those exchanges where everyone wins, or to put it a bit less generously...take our losses with a bit more equanimity.

    Paul66, I wish you the best is divesting from this seemingly costly mistake...CI is a standup company that hopefully will be open and solvent when you are ready to reexplore higher end photo equipment.

    Bob
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Uh, my simple answer is quit your whining about a dealer you never bought from and sell it back to the dealer you actually bought it from!
    Bit harsh that Jack as if its anything like our house, my wife switches into standby when I talk photography equipment and the OP is obviously trying to guage oppinion from like minded (bores ) individuals.

    All I would say is that this stuff costs a fortune to purchase and we all expect it to hold a good proportion of its value selling used.

    Wake up call....... it doesn't!

    See it all the time on ebay etc and even on the buy/sell forum here, people asking way too much for used kit and stuff never selling. Sad but true, stick to Canon or Nikon if you want to sell stuff used.

  27. #27
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    I think that you should only spend on a hobby or indulgence what you can afford to lose in an instant. Anything else will be a stress and ultimately unhealthy.

    For my own part, I've found CI to be a decent enough dealer that values repeat custom. Selling a medium format back today is a tough game and I can understand that most dealers need to be VERY careful about taking on any stock of used backs given the current market, especially the amateur market at least.

    Unfortunately a DM28 is probably considered a low end commodity back these days and you won't see a significant percentage of its value as a sale today, especially to any dealer unless as part of an upgrade. CI is a business and most backs other than a p45+ are seen as a used liability vs a profit opportunity unless the price is right. Maybe rather than offending the OP with a low ball offer CI just rather say no.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  28. #28
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Bit harsh that Jack as if its anything like our house, my wife switches into standby when I talk photography equipment and the OP is obviously trying to guage oppinion from like minded (bores ) individuals.
    I have zero issue with the OP trying to "gauge an opinion" -- I have an issue with the premise that somehow a dealer he never dealt with is the subject of an attack. Why doesn't he sell it back to his original dealer? Seriously, that's a very simple and valid question that I'd like an answer to before we go down any path of discussing a dealer's action that this particular OP never dealt with!
    Jack
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  29. #29
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Getting the answer I don't want pisses me off too. That's life.

    If you aren't in a hurry I'm sure that most dealers will at least consign your back.
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 13th September 2012 at 22:25.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  30. #30
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    And another thing: I think people forget the impact of the Internet. (See Yelp.)

    Saying something bad about someone's business in a forum like this one isn't the same thing as complaining to a friend over a beer. A vague attack on the quality of a product or service can have a serious impact. I don't think it should be done lightly.

    Steve

  31. #31
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Okay I was going to stay out of this but I talk to the dealers all the time and I see and hear this myself as well. Folks get quotes from store A than proceed to go to store B and by from them. It's a common thing . What folks don't understand it's not like going to Adorama and buying instead at B&H. These are small companies and it stretches them to make these quotes work with a client than for a 100 dollars decide to go to store B. that's equivalent to me showing up at a gig than they turn to Uncle Fred and he does the gig. Your wasting there time and resources. Many take this in stride as its just the way things are but to turn around and resell it back to store A is somewhat a insult right out of the gate. It's basically saying what I was not good enough to sell it to you in the first place but you want me to buy it from you to bail you out. See the problem or message here, now it maybe fine if you said lets take my sell and turn it into a upgrade for something else at least dealer A is getting something from this up front instead of maybe waiting months to sell your used gear. Think about this folks your asking a dealer to sit on your back lets say. Here is what it comes down to I'll use numbers you ask 8k for your back the dealer gives you that amount and you got instant cash, the dealer on the other hand may have to advertise this for 3 months to get his money back so he is out 8k for 3 months plus puts money out for advertising it than maybe get 10k for it but in the meantime your back sat on a shelf for 3 months and there paying insurance, rent, electric bills all in that same period. Bottom line get your head out of the sand EVERYONE has to make money. If a deal does not make them a profit than end of day he is out of business. Honestly after all that dealer A should just hang up on you as soon as you tried to sell him your gear you bought from dealer B . Get a clue it's a insult to them. Now I really stepped into my flame suit but i have been around these guys a long time and I get the same scenario from both dealers and it happens both ways all the time. Really not sure what you expect, sorry.

    Now on the same hand you get a quote from store A buy from store A and try to sell back to store A without a upgrade or a bail out . They still have the right to say sorry they can't help you. There is nothing in that purchase that says they have too. You buy and that's where it ends in many cases, on behave of the dealers that advertise here I can tell you straight up they will try to help there customers as much as they can and usually do. I have seen it time and time again where these guys pull rabbits out of there hats for customers. Is everyone always satisfied , probably not and there will always be cases where customers are not happy but I think there expectations are also to high. end of day they are running a business and business demands profits. So yes I will defend the dealers here because they proof time and time again how good they are overall and trust me I have seen the bottom.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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  32. #32
    Paul66
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    As stated before I wanted to see if they wanted to deal because everyone spoke so highly of them, I was shocked with the attitude I was met with sorry I didn't keep my mouth shut, I forgot we don't live in a free country anymore geez

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Right, it's just like a fascist state: you say something that people disagree with and they tell you so. Whatever became of the Bill of Rights?

  34. #34
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Or mingling at a wedding reception you make somewhat disparaging remarks about the groom or Heaven forbid the bride to some of the guests...you can assume that one or two will step up to defend their honor.

    Sounds like your interaction with someone on the phone was less than how you desired it...been there done that. Hopefully you can find an alternate route to divest yourself of the camera.

    Best luck.

    Bob

  35. #35
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Dearest forum ....

    I bought a digital back, upgraded with a dealer, got a great trade in price. My job, kids, and shooting interests led me to sell the back with absolutely no hurry.

    Tried here for a while, and it didn't sell. Lowered the price, and it didn't sell.

    Called one of the big NYC dealers ( not a Phase One specialist ), and got a quote for 75% of retail.

    Decided to deal with flea bay, and got almost 20% more than my final offering price on this form.

    A P30+ is simply worth more on the open market than to this very friendly group of gear slu...... I expect the same to be true of any sub 60 mpix back. Just no real market here for them.

    I'm a big kid, it cost me several grand to play with some really cool toys for over two years .... Great fun. Ever so glad I did it. Met some good people face to face, and some good ones on line.

    Compared to Ferraris, or sail boats this is a cheap hobby. Compared to Harleys this is a safe hobby.

    I'm not going to defend someone in a sales role who had a bad day, but my personal experience is the two dealer I have dealt with both have pro level staff.

    Moral is, abandon hope all ye who enter here.

    Hope my little story help the OP decide the best way to unload his back.

    Dave

  36. #36
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul66 View Post
    As stated before I wanted to see if they wanted to deal because everyone spoke so highly of them, I was shocked with the attitude I was met with sorry I didn't keep my mouth shut, I forgot we don't live in a free country anymore geez
    Paul, you still haven't answered my question: why haven't you offered it to your original dealer??? Really, we want to hear your logic on that one.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  37. #37
    Paul66
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Because number one like I said I wanted to try CI
    Number two I have talked to them and sale is pending, damn Jack I have said several times why I tried CI

  38. #38
    Paul66
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    And just so everyone knows I was just pointing out the experience I had with CI, I ask for no sympathy or anything of the sort, I will refrain from posting any further comments or opinions since I see that people only want to hear the good things that happen.
    Cheers to you all!

  39. #39
    Senior Member alajuela's Avatar
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    Wink Re: tip about capture integration

    I am new here and have dealt with many Camera stores over my 30 years of shooting. (I do like B&H) Just moved up to MF and found by luck CI.
    Chris Snipes held my hand and set me up with a P1 system and a Cambo. He met me on a Sunday morning when I was Jet lagged and brain dead. Although it was a big investment - his attention to detail and straight forward advice was a refreshing experience and gives a very positive meaning to service. I truly feel I have not just gotten a system but a friend who will not steer me wrong. Everything I got from them was just prefect, I did not get anything extra and was not short anything. No question was too dumb. Only spoken to Dave once - But Sam and Ray are top notch. I hope I was not just lucky and the relationship lasts a long time.
    Last edited by alajuela; 14th September 2012 at 00:08.
    Philip
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  40. #40
    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul66 View Post
    As stated before I wanted to see if they wanted to deal because everyone spoke so highly of them, I was shocked with the attitude I was met with sorry I didn't keep my mouth shut, I forgot we don't live in a free country anymore geez
    I am biting my tongue here. This thread is a compliment to the reasonable people on this forum. No way this guy deserves a polite conversation after trying to trash a reputable company because they won't help him move equipment purchased from a competitor. Get a life.
    Ed Cooley Fine Art Photography
     
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  41. #41
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul66 View Post
    I wanted to see if they wanted to deal because everyone spoke so highly of them, I was shocked with the attitude I was met with
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul66 View Post
    Because number one like I said I wanted to try CI
    Number two I have talked to them [admin edit -- I assume them means original dealer] and sale is pending, damn Jack I have said several times why I tried CI
    So let's make sure I have all this straight: You decided to sell your camera and offered it to your original dealer and to CI, ostensibly to see who would give you the most money. CI tells you they're not interested because you weren't an original customer of theirs. This response both surprises and irritates you enough to attempt to discredit them in an open forum by sharing a "tip." Before I take this line of thought any further, let me ask you directly what it is you do (or did) for a living?
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  42. #42
    Super Duper
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Anyone watch Pawn Stars when the customer and owners don't reach a deal or when they refuse to buy whatever was offered?

    I find the title of "tip.." very misleading. Would have been much better if it were "My experience with.."). The only tip here is about the individual and not the company.
    Don Libby
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  43. #43
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Anyone watch Pawn Stars when the customer and owners don't reach a deal or when they refuse to buy whatever was offered?
    Wait a minute here. You actually watch a show called, "Pawn Stars?"

    Big cajones, Don. I don't think anyone here is gonna admit to watching that one...

    ken

  44. #44
    Workshop Member Bryan Stephens's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    I am a CI customer and when I was looking for new gear, I had some Hassy gear that I was hoping to use as a trade, but Dave at CI explained that he would not be able to offer me anything close to what a house like B&H could because he didnt deal much with Hassy (especially used equipment).

    I didn't hold this against them, and instead went to B&H and also tried the private route, and thanked Dave for his honesty, and once my Hassy gear sold, did purchase my new gear from CI.
    Bryan

    “You don’t take a photograph, you make it.” — Ansel Adams

  45. #45
    Workshop Member Bryan Stephens's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by djonesii View Post
    Dearest forum ....

    I bought a digital back, upgraded with a dealer, got a great trade in price. My job, kids, and shooting interests led me to sell the back with absolutely no hurry.

    Tried here for a while, and it didn't sell. Lowered the price, and it didn't sell.

    Called one of the big NYC dealers ( not a Phase One specialist ), and got a quote for 75% of retail.

    Decided to deal with flea bay, and got almost 20% more than my final offering price on this form.

    A P30+ is simply worth more on the open market than to this very friendly group of gear slu...... I expect the same to be true of any sub 60 mpix back. Just no real market here for them.

    I'm a big kid, it cost me several grand to play with some really cool toys for over two years .... Great fun. Ever so glad I did it. Met some good people face to face, and some good ones on line.

    Compared to Ferraris, or sail boats this is a cheap hobby. Compared to Harleys this is a safe hobby.

    I'm not going to defend someone in a sales role who had a bad day, but my personal experience is the two dealer I have dealt with both have pro level staff.

    Moral is, abandon hope all ye who enter here.

    Hope my little story help the OP decide the best way to unload his back.

    Dave
    Dave

    As your point illustrates, selling to a dealer will always net you a lower return as they in turn must figure in any potential profit, where if you can find your own private party, many times you will get more as they will be the end user.

    Bryan

    “You don’t take a photograph, you make it.” — Ansel Adams

  46. #46
    Workshop Member Bryan Stephens's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Anyone watch Pawn Stars when the customer and owners don't reach a deal or when they refuse to buy whatever was offered?

    I find the title of "tip.." very misleading. Would have been much better if it were "My experience with.."). The only tip here is about the individual and not the company.
    I watch that show as the owner, Rick Harrison looks just like one of my close friends, which I joke with him about constantly.
    Bryan

    “You don’t take a photograph, you make it.” — Ansel Adams

  47. #47
    Super Duper
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Wait a minute here. You actually watch a show called, "Pawn Stars?"

    Big cajones, Don. I don't think anyone here is gonna admit to watching that one...

    ken
    Chum is my hero!
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  48. #48
    Workshop Member Bryan Stephens's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    He does kind of remind me of Chumley from Tennessee Tuxedo
    Bryan

    “You don’t take a photograph, you make it.” — Ansel Adams

  49. #49
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Stephens View Post
    He does kind of remind me of Chumley from Tennessee Tuxedo
    Did you see the episode where Hoss bought the Tennessee Tuxedo animation cell and had it framed? Chum definitely looks like Chumley the walrus!

    Jack
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  50. #50
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: tip about capture integration

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Wait a minute here. You actually watch a show called, "Pawn Stars?"

    Big cajones, Don. I don't think anyone here is gonna admit to watching that one...

    ken
    Crap I was watching porn stars by accident. The buying and selling did not have any quotes in it. There was certainly no returns either.
    Damn I'm in trouble now. LOL

    Wait I vaguely remember her screaming Hoss. I'm going to ban myself now
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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