P45+ back, body & lens kit: learning curve thread.

[tashley]

:thumbdown:
Dud or something.
Those look real bad. Mine is a LOT better than that, ...no that is not strong enough.
Even the center is way not sharp.
This is not a little bit, this a whole lot bad!
Was this AF?
I wonder if it is a bit front focused. Are the window bars sharper than the center bricks?
I see that this was taken at 1/250, but was it set on a tripod? (should not matter this much)
-bob

Hi Bob,

All shots were taken on a tripod with MUP and timer and my technique was to AF and then check with MF. With no zoomable live preview that's about as good as it gets. For the test I did the day before inside at home, I put a B&W lettered piece of paper in the centre frame so as to focus exactly and the corner results were very similar.

 

[Bob]

Hi Bob,

All shots were taken on a tripod with MUP and timer and my technique was to AF and then check with MF. With no zoomable live preview that's about as good as it gets. For the test I did the day before inside at home, I put a B&W lettered piece of paper in the centre frame so as to focus exactly and the corner results were very similar.

Well, the center sharpness does not look too good to me either, not to mention the corners.
-bob

 

[carstenw]

Time for a focus accuracy test? Maybe a bunch of beer bottles along a wall running away from you is most appropriate... So, firmware installed two versions old, and a lens which yields unsharp results. At what point do you send it back and ask for a real one? I would personally be freaking out about now if I had paid that much for those results.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Nothing to freak out about just ask for another lens. I would send it back or ask to send out another to test against. They do NOT look right.
Look the firmware is only two version old in your mind . 1.3 never hit the streets to start with and it went from 1.3 to 1.4 in a matter of a day. Some of us have been working with Phase the whole time on version 1.3 behind the scenes. Dealers did not even know it existed in any version until a couple days ago.It is not his dealers fault nor is it Phase fault, this stuff is behind the scenes like anyone else if WE did not say it out LOUD no one would have known anyway until his dealer and all our dealers told us about which would be right about now they are going public. Tim simply got caught in a transition period just like anyone else buying a camera a day before the public knows about a firmware update. There are 5 folks on THIS forum that had any knowledge Phase was even working on the firmware to begin with. Trust me I beta tested firmware for Leica had had firmware weeks before the public had any idea what was coming. This is normal, my suspicion is either has a bad lens or Tim is doing something wrong but looking at the results it certainly leans towards a lens out of alignment

 

[carstenw]

I didn't mean to insinuate any conspiracy theory, just that the results are shocking in this price range.

 

[Bob]

I didn't mean to insinuate any conspiracy theory, just that the results are shocking in this price range.

I should tell you the story sometime about by BMW 750.
Drove it home, and the next morning all the coolant had run out.
QA escapes, that is the problem with the theory behind statistical quality control. Somebody has to be on the bad part of the curve.
-bob

 

[tashley]

Time for a focus accuracy test? Maybe a bunch of beer bottles along a wall running away from you is most appropriate... So, firmware installed two versions old, and a lens which yields unsharp results. At what point do you send it back and ask for a real one? I would personally be freaking out about now if I had paid that much for those results.

I am freaking out in a calm sort of a way!

I just re-shot the tests, this time on much better light with a more interesting subject, my best tripod and MUP with a cable release and, having paid particular attention to focus, the results are the same. So I called my dealer and I'll need to provide RAW files as evidence but he'll swap it out for a loaner until P1 replace it. The trouble is I won't be anywhere near the dealer for another week so for now, the saga ends here and having traded in my 1DSIII I can't do any high res work for a while.

We all know that QC is no respecter of price point but I do think that a company selling to professionals should be careful about the reputation it establishes.

Back to the M8!

Tim

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I didn't mean to insinuate any conspiracy theory, just that the results are shocking in this price range.

I know i actually edited that out before I saw your post, sorry. But truthfully the story is this Phase One contacted me months ago asking what i thought and my input of the Phase body i responded by adding 5 or 6 folks on this forum to give input on the camera and it's operation. We have been working with the Phase engineers in identifying some area's of concern and actually they corrected all of them from memory which in reality this has been a wonderful exchange between all of us and has lead to some great idea's for the future as well. Anyway as a beta tester myself for Leica these things take sometime to develop and the public simply does not know and either do the dealers and Tim's dealer just did not know of the update until after the fact. Now with regards to the lens he should call his dealer and they should have him send it in for a replacement or loaner for repair. No matter what you hear on the forums Phase customer service is excellent.

 

[Dale Allyn]

... The trouble is I won't be anywhere near the dealer for another week so for now,...

Tim

FedEx is your friend. Can you receive an overnight package where you are (once your dealer receives the raw file)? One can upload the file to YouSendIt.com if it's too large to e-mail, etc.

Hope you get it worked out soon. The files will meet your requirements when the wrinkles are straightened out.

If it's any consolation, I'm usually the guy who gets the statistical QA problem that keeps everyone else safe from it. Unfortunately, that same statistical rarity doesn't seem to work with lottery tickets for me.

I (we, as a group actually) really do understand your frustration. It's almost heart-breaking to agonize over a system (or any item) that is this costly and then end up with the rare fluke that doesn't perform. You'll get the kit fixed and make great files with it.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I agree we all share the frustration . MF is hard enough having a wonky lens does not help the cause

 

[carstenw]

After all that we went through, I feel that M8 owners should be exempt from this kind of statistical problems

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Not likely , we have been cursed Carsten for life.:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Dale Allyn]

I thought you early M8 users had signed on to be the beta testers for all formats and all brands, so that the rest of us remain free of such inconveniences! That's how I understood it anyway.
:ROTFL:

Oh, and thanks for that!

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Hey i have done MY share of that stuff. Canon 1ds Mark II, DMR and the M8 first out of the gate. Paid my dues and have the T-shirt with gold letters to prove it ( Big letters " Simply Crazy". Actually though I have to say the day i tested the phase backs it took two minutes to get going, figuring out the DOF thing took a little longer. But the damn thing worked.:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Dale Allyn]

Guy, I've been unbelievably fortunate with the Phase product as well. There's a learning curve to the DoF aspect, plus C-1 is new to me, but the back just works. And it requires no reading to get up and running IMO. Easy menus, etc.

It's a drag that Tim has likely found a bad lens. Hopefully that will be a rare occurrence.

 

[tashley]

I (we, as a group actually) really do understand your frustration. It's almost heart-breaking to agonize over a system (or any item) that is this costly and then end up with the rare fluke that doesn't perform.

Thanks Dale,

But didn't I mention that I have an M8? In fact I've had three, plus many many lenses... and I practically had fedex frequent flier miles at one point!

I don't think manufacturers should sell to me lightly though. All gear over a certain price point gets tested rigourously up-front ever since I discovered and posted the issue of focus shift with certain M lenses on the M8... so not sure whether it's me that's unlucky or the manufacturer!

About the lottery: surely, as you purchase the ticket, you should focus your mind on how winning would ruin your life....

;-)
t

 

[tashley]

After all that we went through, I feel that M8 owners should be exempt from this kind of statistical problems

Hear hear!

However we clearly have the Mark of Cain on us... as it says on the forum header, abandon all hope ye who enter here...

 

[EH21]

Jack and Guy,
So these are the lenses that shattered the "myth of Zeiss?" :lol:

 

[woodyspedden]

Thanks Dale,

But didn't I mention that I have an M8? In fact I've had three, plus many many lenses... and I practically had fedex frequent flier miles at one point!

I don't think manufacturers should sell to me lightly though. All gear over a certain price point gets tested rigourously up-front ever since I discovered and posted the issue of focus shift with certain M lenses on the M8... so not sure whether it's me that's unlucky or the manufacturer!

About the lottery: surely, as you purchase the ticket, you should focus your mind on how winning would ruin your life....

;-)
t

Tim

I so remember your travails with the 35 Lux. I had one which worked perfectly and to prove what a butthead I am I sold it to Peter A who dropped it on concrete and now it is history.

I am also one who recently got in to the MFDB world. I bought the H3DII-39 about two weeks before Hasselblad announced the price cuts. While I am happy for the greater good that entails it sure felt bad to buy a system for almost $30K and watch it tank $10K in two weeks. In the end it probably doesn't matter so long as I keep and use the system. I recently had some serious surgery on my right thumb which may prove to make shooting with a large heavy body problematic. As a matter of fact even the Nikon D3 is problematic right now. Got to get the cast off and get to the gym and start some serious rehab.

Best

Woody

 

[PeterA]

Tim

I so remember your travails with the 35 Lux. I had one which worked perfectly and to prove what a butthead I am I sold it to Peter A who dropped it on concrete and now it is history.

I am also one who recently got in to the MFDB world. I bought the H3DII-39 about two weeks before Hasselblad announced the price cuts. While I am happy for the greater good that entails it sure felt bad to buy a system for almost $30K and watch it tank $10K in two weeks. In the end it probably doesn't matter so long as I keep and use the system. I recently had some serious surgery on my right thumb which may prove to make shooting with a large heavy body problematic. As a matter of fact even the Nikon D3 is problematic right now. Got to get the cast off and get to the gym and start some serious rehab.

Best

Woody

Good luck with your rehab Woody. On a brighter note - I sent the 35 to solms to see what they coudl do. They actually fixed it and it is as good as new. Only cost me $500 !!

Cheers
Pete