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Thread: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

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    Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with IQ180, 4x5, Nikon D3X, 4x5 and 10x8

    Interestingly the Mamiya 7 outresolves the 4x5 with Delta 100 and far surpasses the IQ180 in terms of raw resolution.

    I'm getting a hires drum scan of this soon to see how much can be got out of a scan.

    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static/tmp/cms20-vs.jpg

    The film can display quite a smooth tonal range with Adotech II developer..

    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...cms20-full.jpg

    Overall this film is incredible. Almost zero grain even at 60x enlargement through a microscope. The most amazing aspect is the anti-halation performance - this gives results which are very clinical with an edge precision more like digital than film.

    I'll also be making a pictorial comparison soon.

    Tim
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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    p.s. We also tested it against a Nikon D800 and D800E which it trounced quite well. However, it's interesting that a scan done on an Epson V750 matched the D800E so good results are accessible.

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Tim,

    Dangerous temptation! Adding film again will make me spend more $$$. My mind go film, film back, lab, scanner,,, That said film indeed remain a very competent and aesthetic pleasing media. After Velvia 50 gone perhaps B&W with Adox CMS20 is valid choice?

    Just out of curiosity Do you have any idea how good 4x5 Adox CMS20 would scan on a modern regular computer scanner? Makes me think if worthwhile to try some 4x5 sheets for aesthetics... All need do is add a film holder or two to my Shen Hao... due Quickloads long gone...

    What is DR/ exposure latitude above and below mid tone of Adox CMS20 if say processed at a commercial lab? Is it ok to have processed as normal B&W film at a commercial lab or would other B&W film be wise choice?

    Thanks!

    Best regards
    Anders

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    That film has been on my shopping list for a while, both for the GX680 and the F6. Thank you for the reminder.

    If I remember correctly, Zeiss has been using CMS20 for testing lenses, at least a couple of years back.

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    Tim,

    Dangerous temptation! Adding film again will make me spend more $$$. My mind go film, film back, lab, scanner,,, That said film indeed remain a very competent and aesthetic pleasing media. After Velvia 50 gone perhaps B&W with Adox CMS20 is valid choice?
    I think it's a great choice for 35mm and arguably good for medium format. Everything is predicated on the ability to get the results out of it.

    However, the cost of a 12,000 dpi scanner is a lot less than the cost of a medium format back and you don't have to scan everything at that resolution. I could get myself a 5000dpi scaner for a grand and then save up for a 12,000dpi scanner for a bout 5 or 6k. The great thing about film is that the resolution is always there - you can scan it later when you have more money (or send the occasional one off if you need to exhibit at silly sizes..).

    As for replacing Velvia - I have about 1500 sheets of Velvia plus various other E6 (a few hundred E100G for instance) so that takes care of transparency for a bit. I'll also stock up on a bit of Portra.

    That said - I'll probably shoot some CMS20 alongside it to make the stocks stretch a bit further


    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    Just out of curiosity Do you have any idea how good 4x5 Adox CMS20 would scan on a modern regular computer scanner? Makes me think if worthwhile to try some 4x5 sheets for aesthetics... All need do is add a film holder or two to my Shen Hao... due Quickloads long gone...
    It should scan pretty well. I would expect to get results that compared with higher end medium format backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post

    What is DR/ exposure latitude above and below mid tone of Adox CMS20 if say processed at a commercial lab? Is it ok to have processed as normal B&W film at a commercial lab or would other B&W film be wise choice?
    You can't send it off to be processed as to get the best pictorial results you need to use the Adotech II developer. That said it's damned easy to use.

    Exposure latitude looks reduced in comparison to usual black and white - probably similar to Provia - perhaps a little more. I shall have to test as I plan to use it more.

    Tim

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    That film has been on my shopping list for a while, both for the GX680 and the F6. Thank you for the reminder.

    If I remember correctly, Zeiss has been using CMS20 for testing lenses, at least a couple of years back.
    Yes I think they use it instead of Gigabit film? Can't remember for sure though.

    I know that people have said they managed 200 lines per mm using a Nikon F6 and 50mm lens..

    Zeiss reckon even more but although I do believe them, it stretches credulity

    Tim

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Tim,

    I use 80MP Leaf back. Serious tempting to buy some B&W 4x5 and shoot in my Shen-Hao. Any recommendation what can be processed at most labs and still yield high quality after scanned on a regular scanner even? Looking for low cost but yet quality to make it at all worthwhile. Appreciate your frank recommendation.

    Anders

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    Tim,

    I use 80MP Leaf back. Serious tempting to buy some B&W 4x5 and shoot in my Shen-Hao. Any recommendation what can be processed at most labs and still yield high quality after scanned on a regular scanner even? Looking for low cost but yet quality to make it at all worthwhile. Appreciate your frank recommendation.

    Anders
    Hmm - Can't say for sure. I'll ask my sharpness consultant (Henning Serger).

    My guess would be T-Max or Acros? I know you can't develop Agfa Copex Rapid, Adox CMS 20 or Rollei Ortho in standard developer and keep pictorial grain.

    If you're in the UK/EU you could always send it to me in order to try it

    Tim

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    This is interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing Tim.
    Can you tell me the lenses used for the Mamiya 7 and IQ180?

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    I hope to fix my Mamiya 7II first, and buy another lens, and then getting a drum scanner then i will be very happy to shoot with film for long long time, now after 1 year of testing film i don't feel it is worthy over digital for what i do, without a drum scanner or dedicated film scanner it will not give me much better results over digital, it is not only about printing large, but also about doing the job just right, and only a drum scanner then a film scanner can resolve higher resolution out of the film.

    Thanks for the test, hope it will give a better idea for some newbie like me about film.
    Tareq

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Is the CMS 20 difficult to get right when developing? I seem to remember that Foto Impex in Berlin claimed it was only recommended for those with experience.

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Thanks ;
    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    My guess would be T-Max or Acros?
    I assume optimum use should be to expose for the shadows and printing for the highlights? Assumably scanning will be for highlights then? How much latitude above and below mid tone do they offer?

    Would Ilford Delta 100 be another alternative?

    Much thanks.

    Best regards,
    Anders

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by EH21 View Post
    This is interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing Tim.
    Can you tell me the lenses used for the Mamiya 7 and IQ180?
    The lens on the IQ180 was the Rodenstock 40 Digaron - the IQ180 was rendering at least 50% contrast at one line per pixel.

    The Mamiya 7 had the 50mm lens at f/8

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    after 1 year of testing film i don't feel it is worthy over digital for what i do, without a drum scanner or dedicated film scanner it will not give me much better results over digital, it is not only about printing large, but also about doing the job just right, and only a drum scanner then a film scanner can resolve higher resolution out of the film.
    Agreed up to a point - With LF and a desktop I can get more resolution than the IQ180 with black and white so there is the main advantage. However with drum scanners available for a couple of thousand dollars and not being beyond the skills of anyone who might want to operate an MFDB ....

    If you don't mind waiting around for a bit, scanners come up at ridiculous prices. I recently saw a serviced Fuji Lanovia with all software go for less than 100. They do take up space but boy are they worth it (the Lanovia is a good 5000dpi desktop PMT scanner)


    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Is the CMS 20 difficult to get right when developing? I seem to remember that Foto Impex in Berlin claimed it was only recommended for those with experience.
    It's fussy for sure but with distilled water and care in handling it shouldn't cause a problem. I'll let you know once I've done some more though


    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    Thanks ;

    I assume optimum use should be to expose for the shadows and printing for the highlights? Assumably scanning will be for highlights then? How much latitude above and below mid tone do they offer?
    I don't really know the answer to that one - I'll have a dig out of the compartive shots on other cameras and see what they give. But yes, expose for the shadows seems very wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    Would Ilford Delta 100 be another alternative?
    No comparison really - it has probably twice the usable clean resolution.

    Tim

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post

    It's fussy for sure but with distilled water and care in handling it shouldn't cause a problem. I'll let you know once I've done some more though

    Tim
    That's much appreciated. I would hate to screw up on potentially good photos, and sending the film back and forth across the world to have it processed in Berlin is neither cheap nor convenient.

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    Tim,

    I use 80MP Leaf back. Serious tempting to buy some B&W 4x5 and shoot in my Shen-Hao. Any recommendation what can be processed at most labs and still yield high quality after scanned on a regular scanner even? Looking for low cost but yet quality to make it at all worthwhile. Appreciate your frank recommendation.

    Anders
    I use Acros with the GX680 at the moment. Great film but my reasons for using it are partly because it's relatively cheap and partly because it's kind of fast at ISO 100. I found Delta 100 a bit "boring", but that was on 35mm. Larger formats might change that.

    My favourite of the "normal" films is Ilford Pan F Plus 50. It's slow and expensive, but I love the robustness and the "punch" I get out of it. Still only used it in 35mm, but looking forward to make a splash with medium format as well.

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    Agreed up to a point - With LF and a desktop I can get more resolution than the IQ180 with black and white so there is the main advantage. However with drum scanners available for a couple of thousand dollars and not being beyond the skills of anyone who might want to operate an MFDB ....

    If you don't mind waiting around for a bit, scanners come up at ridiculous prices. I recently saw a serviced Fuji Lanovia with all software go for less than 100. They do take up space but boy are they worth it (the Lanovia is a good 5000dpi desktop PMT scanner)


    Tim
    Well, i can wait for long years, i just started film so i can wait for 3-4 or even 5 years, but i hope i can find some available used drum scanner at reasonable prices, otherwise if many shooters going film side then i may not find any drum scanner available in the market.

    Well, i agree about LF, but i shoot mostly with MF, and some LF films are gone which will shrinking the options with LF, i really love the resolution of 4x5 sheet out of my V750 over 6x7/6x9 rolls, so i can be happy with LF scanned with my flatbed, but if i keep shooting MF more and maybe one day i may add 35mm or modify my Mamiya 7II to use 35mm then my V750 is just not on par for that, so i may loose the interest with MF and in my situation i can't use LF much a lot outdoors and indoor i may not keep using it much, so i think if i will get a drum scanner and then scan both MF and LF and blown away of resolution only by then i may give film 90% of use and maybe more.
    Tareq

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Well, i can wait for long years, i just started film so i can wait for 3-4 or even 5 years, but i hope i can find some available used drum scanner at reasonable prices, otherwise if many shooters going film side then i may not find any drum scanner available in the market.

    Well, i agree about LF, but i shoot mostly with MF, and some LF films are gone which will shrinking the options with LF, i really love the resolution of 4x5 sheet out of my V750 over 6x7/6x9 rolls, so i can be happy with LF scanned with my flatbed, but if i keep shooting MF more and maybe one day i may add 35mm or modify my Mamiya 7II to use 35mm then my V750 is just not on par for that, so i may loose the interest with MF and in my situation i can't use LF much a lot outdoors and indoor i may not keep using it much, so i think if i will get a drum scanner and then scan both MF and LF and blown away of resolution only by then i may give film 90% of use and maybe more.
    Well there is the Nikon medium format scanners which are almost as good as a drum scanner and there is also the new Optikfilm from Plustek which looks very interesting indeed. Just hoping it lives up to expectations which would possibly make it a good high resolution alternative to a drum scanner (potentially higher resolution than low end drum scanners but without the clarity etc).

    Tim

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    All these film discussions make me want to pickup a MF rangefinder.

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    Well there is the Nikon medium format scanners which are almost as good as a drum scanner and there is also the new Optikfilm from Plustek which looks very interesting indeed. Just hoping it lives up to expectations which would possibly make it a good high resolution alternative to a drum scanner (potentially higher resolution than low end drum scanners but without the clarity etc).

    Tim
    The price of that Nikon film scanner is crazy, i better go with a drum scanner, i feel very very sad that i had one site before that listed many drum scanners in very good prices, i don't know which site link now, i don't like ebay, not sure when and from where i will get a drum scanner.

    About Plustek, i have a feeling it will not outresolve the Nikon one, so i don't want to get it, it will not give me a day night difference between my V750, and even the price of it is not justify, if i will pay about $2000-3000 on film scanner i then prefer to add $2000-3000 more and get a drum scanner[used] and never look back, and to operate the drum scanner to get the best out of it will be a great challenging fun, i remember first i used my V750 i was going to sell it, but now i am happy with it and got nice scans, but i know the quality is no match to a drum scanner.
    Tareq

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    All conversations about shooting film seem to end up in conversations about scanning....

    Does anybody print optically anymore? Surely if you want to get the best from the film experience you need to go into the darkroom! Think about it, no hours wasted with all that digital imaging entails.

    Plus every print is at the highest resolution possible regardless of size.... can't ask for more than that surely!

    Aaron.

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Aaron, an optical print does not assure the highest quality compared with a scan. There are many sources to why the film and paper planes are not optimized for focus. And resolution is always lost in a print even when perfect. And depending on size, you can have a contrast problem. And the size of the print will limit the resolving power. Having run my own color and B&W darkroom, there certainly is no speed advantage.

    But on the other hand, the emphasis on precision here is a little extreme. And the fact that there has only been the discussion of the film resolution which is most like going to be lost when going to a print--either optically or digitally.
    Last edited by Shashin; 19th September 2012 at 20:56.
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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Aaron, an optical print does not assure the highest quality compared with a scan. There are many sources to why the film and paper planes are not optimized for focus. And resolution is always lost in a print even when perfect. And depending on size, you can have a contrast problem. And the size of the print will limit the resolving power. Having run my own color and B&W darkroom, there certainly is no speed advantage.

    But on the other hand, the emphasis on precision here is a little silly. And the fact that there has only been the discussion of the film resolution which is most like going to be lost when going to a print--either optically or digitally.
    Yes I agree with all of the above, good technique will certainly shorten the problem list...but I am really talking about the experience of shooting film or working analogue.

    If the intention is to produce the sharpest and most technically precise image possible then why shoot film in the first place- surely thats best pursued digitally?

    I always think of shooting film and then scanning is kind of like drinking a good wine through a plastic straw.

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    I'm shooting a lot of film these days and have been experimenting with the two workflows of analog print vs scan and digitally print. So far it seems I am doing better by scanning and printing, but with a few images the analog results seem superior but only because of tonality and never because I was able to produce more detail. That could be due to my lack of analog printing skills however. Certainly I feel I have much more local control of the image in the digital route than in the analog route and I feel I can probably get more detail through scanning and post work.

    I don't scan with a scanner but instead shoot my negs (6x6, 6x7 and 4x5) on a light table with my CF 528 multishot back. This seems to be working rather well for me, and better than scans from the epsons, however I haven't compared to the the higher end drum scans. Has anyone made any comparisons between drum scanners and high quality digital capture?

    At least for now, I don't think shooting film and printing digitally is 'drinking a good wine through a straw' at all. Film has some wonderful qualities besides resolution. The advantage is that once I have the negative, I can go either way analog print or digital. Another advantage is the larger format size has a different look. I see no point to shoot 35mm - its only there for MF and larger.

    Another couple advantages of film... no batteries, ability to shoot higher ISO, better art value.
    Last edited by EH21; 19th September 2012 at 11:31.

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Yes I agree with all of the above, good technique will certainly shorten the problem list...but I am really talking about the experience of shooting film or working analogue.

    If the intention is to produce the sharpest and most technically precise image possible then why shoot film in the first place- surely thats best pursued digitally?

    I always think of shooting film and then scanning is kind of like drinking a good wine through a plastic straw.
    There are definite differences between an optical print and digital print of the same film. One is not "better" than the other--that is simply a preference. There is certainly more control in digital, but optical prints have a unique signature. Skill is required to do both well.

    I am rather neutral on process. Whatever you decide to do, you need to work in that process for its strength and not to imitate another process.
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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    That is gorgeous tonality, Adox always did have some very nice tonality though it comes with very slow speed.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post

    Plus every print is at the highest resolution possible regardless of size.... can't ask for more than that surely!

    Aaron.
    Not necessarily!! I've just scanned the film on my low end Howtek drum scanner and the 4000dpi result outresolves and IQ180 on an ALPA body with Rodenstock lens..

    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...0-vs-iq180.jpg

    The IQ180 looks very clean though but does show a lot of artefacts.

    I'll be scanning this on an 8,000 dpi scanner soon which I expect to do substantially better.
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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    Not necessarily!! I've just scanned the film on my low end Howtek drum scanner and the 4000dpi result outresolves and IQ180 on an ALPA body with Rodenstock lens..

    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...0-vs-iq180.jpg

    The IQ180 looks very clean though but does show a lot of artefacts.

    I'll be scanning this on an 8,000 dpi scanner soon which I expect to do substantially better.
    Hi Tim,
    I was referring to printing from a negative via the traditional method!
    While i know its a simplification to say so, I meant that an enlargement from a darkroom printed neg is always at the max resolution as your always using all the information with projection.

    Assuming your enlarger has a good lens, is focused, your neg & paper are flat, Enlarger and base board aligned, and a million other analogue possibilities but the theory is sound

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Hi Tim,
    I was referring to printing from a negative via the traditional method!
    While i know its a simplification to say so, I meant that an enlargement from a darkroom printed neg is always at the max resolution as your always using all the information with projection.

    Assuming your enlarger has a good lens, is focused, your neg & paper are flat, Enlarger and base board aligned, and a million other analogue possibilities but the theory is sound
    Yes I realise that and agree but I'm also pointing out that scanning shouldn't be dismissed if it produced the results above..

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    Yes I realise that and agree but I'm also pointing out that scanning shouldn't be dismissed if it produced the results above..
    Yes, there's no question that its an impressive result.

    How much do you attribute it to the Mamiya 7 optics though? If the results are more due to the Adox CMS20 then its a little less fair of a comparison to the IQ180 (it being a colour array).

    How close would the results be if using the Mamiya 7 with a fine grain colour neg?

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    Agreed up to a point - With LF and a desktop I can get more resolution than the IQ180 with black and white so there is the main advantage. However with drum scanners available for a couple of thousand dollars and not being beyond the skills of anyone who might want to operate an MFDB ....

    If you don't mind waiting around for a bit, scanners come up at ridiculous prices. I recently saw a serviced Fuji Lanovia with all software go for less than 100. They do take up space but boy are they worth it (the Lanovia is a good 5000dpi desktop PMT scanner)



    It's fussy for sure but with distilled water and care in handling it shouldn't cause a problem. I'll let you know once I've done some more though



    I don't really know the answer to that one - I'll have a dig out of the compartive shots on other cameras and see what they give. But yes, expose for the shadows seems very wise.



    No comparison really - it has probably twice the usable clean resolution.

    Tim
    I have a Lanovia Quattro and its a killer scanner. The LQ is not a PMT scanner, it uses a CCD. I've owned three different Fuji scanners over the last decade, 2750, 5000 and the Quattro. You rarely find the Quattro or 5000 but do find the 2750 from time to time. The 2750 is a stripped down version of the 5000 and scans a max of 2750 dpi where the 5000 is 5000 dpi like the LQ. The 5000 has a slightly better dynamic range than the 2750. The LQ is 5000 dpi and super fast. The 5000 and LQ have 4 apo lenses for optimum scans. It XY axis scanning so every point on the 13x18 inch platter is optimum. The LQ makes amazing scans.

    The problem is finding one with software for your os, dongle with unlock codes and setup and calibration negs. Most do not have these items and will not work. There is no 3rd party software and without the negs and dongle with unlock codes you can not use it. Fuji has no parts and they are impossible to find. These were made by Crossfield.

    I bought mine from Fuji originally so I have xp and os x and os9 dongles, pc and both Mac OSX and 9 software. Also spare bulbs, engineering manuals, instruction books plus spare camera CCD, 2 lenses, servo, belt and a few boards that came out of a 2750 that I think will work. Also a spare glass for the platter.

    I may put it up for sale on the large format forum this week so keep your eyes open but it won't go for 100.

  32. #32
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Yes, there's no question that its an impressive result.

    How much do you attribute it to the Mamiya 7 optics though? If the results are more due to the Adox CMS20 then its a little less fair of a comparison to the IQ180 (it being a colour array).

    How close would the results be if using the Mamiya 7 with a fine grain colour neg?
    Obviously, the results are very much due to the CMS20. There's nothing like it available in colour, not even close.

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Yes, there's no question that its an impressive result.

    How much do you attribute it to the Mamiya 7 optics though? If the results are more due to the Adox CMS20 then its a little less fair of a comparison to the IQ180 (it being a colour array).

    How close would the results be if using the Mamiya 7 with a fine grain colour neg?
    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...20-4000dpi.jpg

    Colour neg resolves only about 100 lppm compared with Adox CMS 20's 200+ lppm and the contrast and grain difference is massive.

    The best resolving film I've tried myself is Velvia 50 but I've been told Velvia 100F is even finer grained (again - referencing Henning Serger's info)

    Tim

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Is SPUR developer more difficult to obtain outside Germany than Adox? I've had excellent results with Kodak Imagelink HQ and now want to switch to Agfa Copex + Spur Dynamicspeed 64 (Spur DSX) - it is meant to offer great DR and 64ASA!

    Everything beyond 100lppm is hardly usable in real-world situations IMHO - no matter which sensor or film used, DoF alone will be critical when not shooting test charts....

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    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    For those in the US film and developer are available here: Freestyle Photo. I've placed an order - we'll see how it is working with them.

    Next I'll need to dig into the storage area in our barn to find developing tanks, beakers, thermometers, etc. I'll be scanning on my Flexcolor which has a native resolution of 3200. Of course it doesn't do as good a job of grain and dust suppression as the Howtech.

    this is going to be fun.

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    For those in the US film and developer are available here: Freestyle Photo. I've placed an order - we'll see how it is working with them.

    Next I'll need to dig into the storage area in our barn to find developing tanks, beakers, thermometers, etc. I'll be scanning on my Flexcolor which has a native resolution of 3200. Of course it doesn't do as good a job of grain and dust suppression as the Howtech.

    this is going to be fun.
    I ordered films from there ages ago, they are great, also B&H, i am planning to order more film from them soon again as usual, next month i hope.

    Good luck!
    Tareq

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    I'll be scanning on my Flexcolor which has a native resolution of 3200. Of course it doesn't do as good a job of grain and dust suppression as the Howtech.
    On the Flextight I found the best way to scan B&W is to scan as RGB, then pick the channel with the best focus... The film as loaded is curved but the imager is flat (with a separate line for each channel).

    I never got much grain from T-Max 100 in XTOL, and very little grain from Delta 100 in Microdol-X on a 6x7 neg. So I doubt using a microfilm in a special developer has a whole lot of benefit at a mere 3200 dpi. The Mamiya 7 is already excellent with just about any 100 speed film at that level of detail and anything else just adds to the PITA factor.

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    Re: Mamiya 7 with Adox CMS20 compared with ...

    Quote Originally Posted by georgl View Post
    Is SPUR developer more difficult to obtain outside Germany than Adox? I've had excellent results with Kodak Imagelink HQ and now want to switch to Agfa Copex + Spur Dynamicspeed 64 (Spur DSX) - it is meant to offer great DR and 64ASA!

    Everything beyond 100lppm is hardly usable in real-world situations IMHO - no matter which sensor or film used, DoF alone will be critical when not shooting test charts....
    True - but system resolution is increased by the quality of each element in the chain so a 200lpm capable film will still increase the perceived resolution/contrast of even an 80lpm lens on 60lpm scanner

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