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Thread: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Well the reality seems to be that the MF manufacturers don't have the financial resources to radically innovate (total MFD market is 12 000 units, with substantial margins for the dealers) and are bound to adopt either consumer technology such as Sony sensors which are getting better and better or scientific/military technology derivatives (huge CCDs from Dalsa) which are getting behing in terms of DR/noise etc. compared to Sony. If Dalsa creates a 100 MPX CCD, we will Se an IQ 200, if not, not. If Sony's licensing agreement with Nikon ends, we will see maybe a NEX 9 full frame, and then a Hasselblad "Neptun" for 5 times the price in Euros.

    So basically the only one's left innovating are Sony/Canon and this will determine what we will see.

    I highly doubt that the Leica M sensor can match Sony's technology.

    Sad times for MFD.
    This isn't a MFD camera ... so just ignore it and maybe it'll go away.

    I also wouldn't doubt the Leica M sensor quite yet. It may have the right character assets for the look M users expect as opposed to the commodity look of Sony.

    Cripes, the old Sony slogan "Sony The One and Only" may become a reality.

    You will be assimilated. No wait, many already are

    -Marc
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Jeeze, you guys wanted a really exciting press release and model launch from Hasselblad. They step up to the plate and give it to you and all you do is whine. Tough crowd.
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    "For us, the plan is to move very quickly over the next months," says Hasselblad's chairman and CEO Larry Hansen. "Our expectation is to show and launch cameras in every sector of the photographic market while offering the best image quality available in each segment, relying on our collaboration with Sony."

    He adds: "We want to go back to our customers. Fifteen years ago, 65% of our customers were not professionals photographers. Today almost 100% are professionals. My goal is to make Hasselblad cameras accessible to all serious customers."

    Read more: Photokina 2012: Hasselblad to launch mirrorless compact camera and full-frame digital SLR [Update] - British Journal of Photography
    This is quite sad.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    In the end Hasselblad is a company intended to make money for its shareholders. The sad reality probably is, that they make a lot more money producing these crappy high-margin products for rich enthusiasts in Asia than by producing next level image capture devices. If you can sell loads of "Ferrari" Hasselblads based on year-old technology to rich kinds in Dubai, why bother investing in r&d, risking liquidity for new products that may be a tough sell to professional photographers, especially considering extremely good competition by Phase One. I predict that serious photographers will stick more with Phase and Hasselblad will be happy going after the Leica customers. I'm sure Leica's success hasn't gone unnoticed and has created a lot of envy. For every getdpi member here there are probably 10 rich people willing to buy a 40 MPX back with with a crappy display for 20k. The reality is we're just an economically un-important customer segment with an out-of-proportion important forum on the net. I'm sure they've gone over the numbers and the 5k lunar will sell well to bankers, sheichs and other persons who can afford such toys.

    Oh yeah, and the rich customers they buy the camera, don't abuse it as much as pros, dont cog up customer service telephone lines in denmark/sweden or wherever and don't need dealers explaining them for 3 hours how to optimize phocus on their macs. They just buy that thing shoot some beaches and friends and are happy. If I'd be Hasselblad this is quite undetstaneable as a move actually. It just spells bad times for people interested in real innovation.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    This is what managers learn in business school, I guess.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Jeeze, you guys wanted a really exciting press release and model launch from Hasselblad. They step up to the plate and give it to you and all you do is whine. Tough crowd.
    The hype don't match the outcome and this is a medium format crowd and in bad English that ain't no MF camera. They did no address there compitetion at all without upgrading there backs to state of art.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    I seem to recall that the Hasselblad Xpan had a rough ride when it was launched.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Hi Michiel,

    Honestly, I actually agree with you.lol...

    Just wanted to ask.

    I live and work here for the past 6 years but before that scotland since birth and i can see that this camera will most likely sell in this market. I just hope that this is a joke and in the next few months hassy change their mind with everything we have asked for. Custom pano sensor, xpan vibes and great ISo performance.

    No offence taken at all.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Fairbank View Post
    I seem to recall that the Hasselblad Xpan had a rough ride when it was launched.
    But the Fuji TX-1 did well...

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    "Fifteen years ago, 65% of our customers were not professionals photographers. Today almost 100% are professionals. My goal is to make Hasselblad cameras accessible to all serious customers."

    Not a bad idea really, and all cynicism aside, maybe, just maybe, this is a classic case of prototype design. the boys and girls in the design department are let off the leash and go overboard. after it goes through the focus groups it may actually come out looking like camera. time will tell. and the marketplace will dictate how things develop. if this thing doesn't sell, then they'll be doing some major back peddling to there customer base, or what's left of it.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Now Phase One needs to collaborate with Canon to create some kick-*** "enthusiast" products.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Well the reality seems to be that the MF manufacturers don't have the financial resources to radically innovate (total MFD market is 12 000 units, with substantial margins for the dealers)
    I keep hearing this. Yet the Phase One IQ is clearly a very innovative back.:

    Bright, large, dense LCD
    Custom touchscreen interface every bit on par with the world's best (iPhone)
    Customizable everything (e.g. highlight warning level)
    Focus Mask
    Auto horizon and auto keystone adjustments
    Review on LCD of past captured images when shooting tethered
    Live View radically better than any CCD sensor live view, and without need for the computer
    Optional 5-year warranty (shows their confidence in the durability/longevity/construction)
    Up to ISO3200 (reduced res mode)

    It's not CMOS, so no radical High ISO or movie-like live-view, and I'm sure there are lots of features you could want to add. But as far as comparing it to all previous medium format backs - very innovative.

    Just because all products you could want don't get released at the same time doesn't mean innovation isn't taking place. Like an iceberg, the visible part is often only a fraction of what's coming.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    True, no arguments there. The IQ is a fantastic product and that's why everyone is scratching their heads on the DF+.

    Where's the IQ camera?! Where's the well designed tool for the modern professional photographer?

    Let's face it, the DF+ at most is a Mamiya 645 that finally works.
    It's the P45+ of cameras. Good, but not the next generation.





    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    I keep hearing this. Yet the Phase One IQ is clearly a very innovative back.:

    Bright, large, dense LCD
    Custom touchscreen interface every bit on par with the world's best (iPhone)
    Customizable everything (e.g. highlight warning level)
    Focus Mask
    Auto horizon and auto keystone adjustments
    Review on LCD of past captured images when shooting tethered
    Live View radically better than any CCD sensor live view, and without need for the computer
    Optional 5-year warranty (shows their confidence in the durability/longevity/construction)
    Up to ISO3200 (reduced res mode)

    It's not CMOS, so no radical High ISO or movie-like live-view, and I'm sure there are lots of features you could want to add. But as far as comparing it to all previous medium format backs - very innovative.

    Just because all products you could want don't get released doesn't mean innovation isn't taking place. Like an iceberg, the visible part is often only a fraction of what's coming.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    I keep hearing this. Yet the Phase One IQ is clearly a very innovative back.:

    Bright, large, dense LCD
    Custom touchscreen interface every bit on par with the world's best (iPhone)
    Customizable everything (e.g. highlight warning level)
    Focus Mask
    Auto horizon and auto keystone adjustments
    Review on LCD of past captured images when shooting tethered
    Live View radically better than any CCD sensor live view, and without need for the computer
    Optional 5-year warranty (shows their confidence in the durability/longevity/construction)
    Up to ISO3200 (reduced res mode)

    It's not CMOS, so no radical High ISO or movie-like live-view, and I'm sure there are lots of features you could want to add. But as far as comparing it to all previous medium format backs - very innovative.

    Just because all products you could want don't get released doesn't mean innovation isn't taking place. Like an iceberg, the visible part is often only a fraction of what's coming.
    Doug, yes, there is innovation. But I have the sense that we're approaching a tipping point where the sheer economies of scale will do the rest for the mdf industry. They only saviour these companies seem to see compared to Sony and Canon is to get into the luxury niche, where performance doens't matter nearly as much.

    Say that Canon by 2014 releases a 50 MPX Canon 1 body with extremely low noise at base iso and dynamic range that supercedes MFD's best offering by 2 stops. Or let it be sony who enters the high-pixel game. I mean the D800 already impacts MFD sales, I'm sure you know that from experience. Let Zeiss and Schneider delevop new high-performance designs costing 2-3k EUR that provide sharp images for those sensors.

    Dalsa by then maybe hasn't produced new sensors because R&D is too expensive, so Phase One will be stuck with their 80MPX design or whatever Dalsa produces by then. Maybe they will create a better body, but it won't match the weather sealing, 100 AF points, 12 pictures per second we might see by 2014 by the multi-billion dollar behemoths that are Sony/Nikon. There was a time in history where there was a substantial quality difference from those big CCDs, but with the sheer R&D muscle behind new products in the consumer area, there will be a time where a normal photographer won't see the reason anymore in spensing 10x the money for 5% more quality in the end.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I believe will happen.

    What won't change though, is that there will be affluent customers willing to pay 10k for an older technology in a nice package. In the end it's about differentiation in those social environments and if you've got a rolex, why not get a lunar too.

    What does that spell for the future?

    Well, Hasselblad will develop a whole line of overpriced, crazily designed Sony re-badgings, Leica will probably continue with their limited editions that sell well in mainland China and Phase One will have to decide if the come out of their Pro niche in order to cash in on the global luxury market.

    Nikon and Canon will slowly eat MFD sales and only car, fashion and advert. photographers in LA/NYC/LDN/DUBAI who are at the top of their game will see a marketing benefit in buying kit 10x as expensive than necessary for 2 A4 print spreads.

    If a private equity investor pressured Phase One to make more money, we might soon see a Lamborghini edition IQ180 for 50k USD and a cooperation with say canon for some cool new limited edition mirrorless action. As of now, I can't imagine Phase going down this route, but money-making wise, I'd sure would be interesting to expand into the high-margin world of Leica.
    Last edited by Paul Spinnler; 18th September 2012 at 07:05.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Sad but true.

    @ hassi: ROFL

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Doug, yes, there is innovation. But I have the sense that we're approaching a tipping point where the sheer economies of scale will do the rest for the mdf industry. They only saviour these companies seem to see compared to Sony and Canon is to get into the luxury niche, where performance doens't matter nearly as much.

    Say that Canon by 2014 releases a 50 MPX Canon 1 body with extremely low noise at base iso and dynamic range that supercedes MFD's best offering by 2 stops. Or let it be sony who enters the high-pixel game. I mean the D800 already impacts MFD sales, I'm sure you know that from experience. Let Zeiss and Schneider delevop new high-performance designs costing 2-3k EUR that provide sharp images for those sensors.

    Dalsa by then maybe hasn't produced new sensors because R&D is too expensive, so Phase One will be stuck with their 80MPX design or whatever Dalsa produces by then. Maybe they will create a better body, but it won't match the weather sealing, 100 AF points, 12 pictures per second we might see by 2014 by the multi-billion dollar behemoths that are Sony/Nikon. There was a time in history where there was a substantial quality difference from those big CCDs, but with the sheer R&D muscle behind new products in the consumer area, there will be a time where a normal photographer won't see the reason anymore in spensing 10x the money for 5% more quality in the end.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I believe will happen.
    There are dozens of reasons why people shoot with medium format that have nothing to do with resolution or dynamic range: see this post. Which, by the way, I think Phase will still dominate in 2014 :-).

    I think the impact of the D800 on MFD sales, and the death of MF, has been greatly over reported. All indications are that this will be one of the best years Phase One has ever had.
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    It's really hard to ignore the IQ backs from Phase in MF. They are the best there is.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    The best one is the Red gold-reptile leather version. Very tasteful........ :-)
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    This is clearly a management move dictated by financial needs. Whoever owns Hasselblad at the moment have apparently decided to get as much profit out of the brand as possible, and if that means killing the brand long term, so be it. After the V-Series, Hasselblad hasn't really developed an independent product on their own (although they've always claimed that the H-Series was designed mainly by them not Fuji). This in a way proves it; they simply lack the resources to develop a new camera system from the bottom, and had to rely on somebody else to do it. Something has apparently gone wrong with the relationship to Fuji, or maybe Fuji simply wanted out. Then they were left with very few choices.

    To me, launching a camera like what they've now shown is a certain sign of a company on the edge of the cliff. They might sell in Dubai and Shanghai, but it's a dead end from a product development point of view. Even rich, spoiled kids will get tired of luxury products that aren't based on a product philosophy rooted in tradition and real value, like a Leica M, a Rolleiflex or indeed a Hasselblad V.

    I don't know who owns Hasselblad now, but what they need very urgently is a resourceful owner who understands the photography business as well as the luxury goods business and is able to build on real values and real traditions. This camera, which will soon be re-badged "Lunatic" by most, is easy to place in the same category as Daimler Benz futile Maybach revival. But unlike Hasselblad, Daimler Benz is hugely successful in nearly all other product segments and could take the loss with not much more than a footnote in the annual report. Somehow, I doubt that Hasselblad is in a similar position.

    Sorry for being so pessimistic, but I can't really see any positive sides to this, and I too had hoped for a digital Xpan
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    I think the innovation everybody is talking about, is more about the cameras than the backs. The backs are great, the quality and ideas are there. No question.

    But the camera systems in front of the backs do rely too much on stuff done before. In 2012 there is a lot you could change about the cameras you thought of, engineered, and build yesterday.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Interesting times, for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    There are dozens of reasons why people shoot with medium format that have nothing to do with resolution or dynamic range: see this post. Which, by the way, I think Phase will still dominate in 2014 :-).

    I think the impact of the D800 on MFD sales, and the death of MF, has been greatly over reported. All indications are that this will be one of the best years Phase One has ever had.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    For the record I predict they will sell well.

    They don't have to sell a million, or even 100k to make it successful financially. It looks like an inherent $3-4k gross margin since seemingly nothing costly-to-develop is changed from a stock NEX-7. Sell 10,000 units world wide and you're looking at 30 million.

    The question is if it's successful will that then funnel into further developing their core business model, or encourage them to dedicate more resources into these rebadges. You can only focus on so many things at once, especially in a small company.
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    I think people get confused between technology and photography. Most professional equipment has survived by producing great images regardless of the automation and art filters--photographers are professionals and can easily compensate for the automation (is focus and exposure really that difficult?). So professional camera tend to be lean in features.

    Over the last few weeks, I feel photographers seem to believe they are entitled to whatever technology they can dream up and to have that technology for free. Making camera is expensive. Personally, give me a machine with good handling and great results and I can compensate for any other "weakness."

    And if you can't make it good, make it with a lot of chrome...
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    The question is if it's successful will that then funnel into further developing their core business model, or encourage them to dedicate more resources into these rebadges. You can only focus on so many things at once, especially in a small company.
    This is a key point obviously. In the press release, the CEO, Larry Hansen says: "We want to go back to our customers. Fifteen years ago, 65% of our customers were not professionals photographers. Today almost 100% are professionals. My goal is to make Hasselblad cameras accessible to all serious customers."

    How can he be so ignorant as to not understand why 65% of their customers were non-professionals. When I grew up, Hasselblad was the symbol of premium quality and technology in a package that made it attractive for amateurs as well as professionals. It was lightweight, compact, looked stunningly well and again: the quality was second to none.

    But that was 40-50 years ago. In the meantime, it's as if time has stood still at Hasselblad, until the H-Series which was clearly not aimed at amateurs. I'm quite certain that Hasselblad would stand a better chance of survival if they made a digital camera based on the look and concept of the V-Series. Smaller, but traditionalist and with an image quality on par with a Leica S. But that requires innovation and product development, neither of which seem to be among Hasselblad's strong sides at the moment.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I think people get confused between technology and photography. Most professional equipment has survived by producing great images regardless of the automation and art filters--photographers are professionals and can easily compensate for the automation (is focus and exposure really that difficult?). So professional camera tend to be lean in features.

    Over the last few weeks, I feel photographers seem to believe they are entitled to whatever technology they can dream up and to have that technology for free. Making camera is expensive. Personally, give me a machine with good handling and great results and I can compensate for any other "weakness."

    And if you can't make it good, make it with a lot of chrome...
    But it starts with a lens and ends in a sensor the middle is meaningless. These tweaks just help but they do nothing for IQ. Given the options in MF I know where that winds up in choices. If I can't focus or meter than I'm the idiot I agree.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Hasselblad is merely following the profitable examples set by Nikon and Canon over the last few years. These two companies have products for all segments of the markets with what we can assume healthy profits that contribute proportionally to the bottom line.
    Look at what Mercedes has done with their different classes of card (M,C,E etc), or Porsche with the Panamara and various SUV's.
    Hasselblad has a responsibility to its shareholders and also to us (their customers) to survive and to profit. Obviously the old model wasn't working; let's hope this model will be successful so that we can continue to enjoy their top of the line offerings.
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Why not release a more affordable package with sane looks, and make less of a fool out of the brand?

    Leica has done that...
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by stngoldberg View Post
    Hasselblad is merely following the profitable examples set by Nikon and Canon over the last few years. These two companies have products for all segments of the markets with what we can assume healthy profits that contribute proportionally to the bottom line.
    Look at what Mercedes has done with their different classes of card (M,C,E etc), or Porsche with the Panamara and various SUV's.

    Stanley
    No they are not following the example of Nikon or Canon, Mercedes or Porsche. When those companies charge a premium price, they also offer a premium product. The Lunatic is nothing more than a mainstream product with a modified body shell. And to make matters worse, Hasselblad should already have learnt their lesson. Two years ago, they launched the H4D "Ferrari Edition" which actually looked pretty cool if you happen to like the Italian sports car. It's a limited edition camera made in 499 copies only, sold at a price of some $30,000, which isn't too bad either. And two years later, they are still not sold out.

    But when listening to Mr. Hansen's speech at the launch, which is all about "brands" and "emotions", that's understandable:

    Hasselblad H4D Ferrari - YouTube

    The problem with that product, and with the Lunatic, is that none of them are based on what made Hasselblad famous and respected. Unlike when Nikon makes an $8,000 DSLR or Porsche makes a $1-200,000 sports car. With those, you know you pay for the knowledge, the prestige and the quality built through decades. With the Lunatic, you pay $5,000 for a $1,000 camera made by a third party supplier. It's like paying $500,000 for a special edition Porsche made by Toyota.
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Hasselblad Reveals Plans for Mirrorless Camera in 2013 | Fstoppers

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Ummm... if anybody wonders how Sony came into this, here's probably why:

    "Dr. Hansen was appointed Hasselblad Chairman in March 2009 and CEO from November the same year. He has 26 years of experience in top management positions in the German based optical and opto-electronics firm Carl Zeiss. The last 16 years Dr. Hansen was CEO of the Carl Zeiss Asia Pacific operations based in Japan. In this role Dr. Hansen initiated and developed thriving photographic business co-operations with Japanese corporations such as Sony, Cosina and Kyocera."

    The Kyocera adventure didn't end so well, something that must have been among his responsibilities. One can of course wonder how the relationship to Fuji has developed after his change to the top job at Hasselblad.
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It's like paying $500,000 for a special edition Porsche made by Toyota.
    Actually, I would like a more reliable, fuel-efficient Porsche. The price is a bit steep though.

    What Hasselblad is doing has a lot of risk. Unlike the XPan/TX-1 where the market was clearly separated, Hasselblad is going to sharing the market with Sony. Also both cameras were close in price. Why buy the Luna when you can have the same thing for less from Sony?

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    In the press release, the CEO, Larry Hansen says: "We want to go back to our customers. Fifteen years ago, 65% of our customers were not professionals photographers. Today almost 100% are professionals.
    That does not surprise me..... Today, every man and his dog who owns a camera and is remotely into photography calls themselves a professional photographer. Being a professional has no relevance to the ability of the photographer and the camera they should use.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by stngoldberg View Post
    Hasselblad is merely following the profitable examples set by Nikon and Canon over the last few years. These two companies have products for all segments of the markets with what we can assume healthy profits that contribute proportionally to the bottom line.
    Look at what Mercedes has done with their different classes of card (M,C,E etc), or Porsche with the Panamara and various SUV's.
    Hasselblad has a responsibility to its shareholders and also to us (their customers) to survive and to profit. Obviously the old model wasn't working; let's hope this model will be successful so that we can continue to enjoy their top of the line offerings.
    Stanley
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    Sorry this analogy is so far off to be distracting . Porsche actually leveraged their best capabilities to produce a lower priced sports car and an SUV in factories with better economics . The product lines are complimentary and share technologies and the "magic" dust that keeps Porsche buyers coming back .

    They didn t put a Porsche style body on cars made with others technology ..doing so would dilute the brand value . When they partnered with VW ...they retained the essence of their cars .

    If HB had designed a new camera (even with Sony) and then leveraged sony s manufacturing capabilities ..OK ..but that is not what happened .

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Actually, I would like a more reliable, fuel-efficient Porsche.
    You mean like a Porsche but with Audi/VW know how and tacky blingy lights? Oh hang on......

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    It sure takes the award for the ugliest camera - ever.
    Totally dissapointed
    Guess I'll move onto Leica.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Actually, I would like a more reliable, fuel-efficient Porsche. The price is a bit steep though.

    What Hasselblad is doing has a lot of risk. Unlike the XPan/TX-1 where the market was clearly separated, Hasselblad is going to sharing the market with Sony. Also both cameras were close in price. Why buy the Luna when you can have the same thing for less from Sony?
    Lexus LFA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Actually the modern day Porsche is pretty fuel efficient, but not to detract from the subject, the only disappointment is that it is APS-C, and not full frame. Price is obvious, but I wouldn't have minded fixed lens, almost medium format sensor.
    Which was my original expectation, I don't really care who helped Hasselblad get there!
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    They didn t put a Porsche style body on cars made with others technology ..doing so would dilute the brand value . When they partnered with VW ...they retained the essence of their cars .
    VW Toureg - Porsche Cayenne ring any bells? Base model even used to share the same V6 engine (may still do).

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR


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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    VW Toureg - Porsche Cayenne ring any bells? Base model even used to share the same V6 engine (may still do).
    I have a VW Toureg . Not sure on engine though its a 6
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    That is the 2800 Euro Sony A99 with a Hassy logo.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    As PT Barnum was famous for stating... Oh never mind.


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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    I want whatever they are smoking at the Hasselblad headquarters.
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    VW Toureg - Porsche Cayenne ring any bells? Base model even used to share the same V6 engine (may still do).
    But the Cayenne isn't 5 times as expensive as the Touareg. They are rather similarly priced in most markets when similarly specified. That goes all the way back to the VW/Porsche 914. The VW powered 1.7 litre, later 2.0 litre, was cheaper than the 6 cylinder Porsche powered version, but not more than the difference in engine technology would suggest. And the sports car from 40 years ago and the current SUVs both had in common that they were developed in partnership.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    I'm dumbfounded. Not only is this just a Sony consumer camera with a markup that makes you wonder if it's July 1st, it's possibly the ugliest camera design since the Konica AiBorg. This is what happens when you replace passionate innovators with suits and number crunchers. Victor must be rolling in his grave right now.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    maybe the flip side of this is that Sony will announce a MF camera based on their new alliance with Hasselblab
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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    How to make a successful camera:

    1. Hire a design that has never designed a camera because they will think outside the box.

    2. Have a clueless management.

    3. And if the management is not clueless, have them be too shy to recognize a mistake when they see it.

    4. Make sure the folks funding this don't understand what is happening.

    Hopefully they can borrow some classic technology from Minotla and have the camera talk. If you are going to make an annoying camera, you might as well make it totally annoying.

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Maybe they should rename the company to Hassle_bad?

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Ummm... if anybody wonders how Sony came into this, here's probably why:

    "Dr. Hansen was appointed Hasselblad Chairman in March 2009 and CEO from November the same year. He has 26 years of experience in top management positions in the German based optical and opto-electronics firm Carl Zeiss. The last 16 years Dr. Hansen was CEO of the Carl Zeiss Asia Pacific operations based in Japan. In this role Dr. Hansen initiated and developed thriving photographic business co-operations with Japanese corporations such as Sony, Cosina and Kyocera."

    The Kyocera adventure didn't end so well, something that must have been among his responsibilities. One can of course wonder how the relationship to Fuji has developed after his change to the top job at Hasselblad.
    There's one thing that strikes me with things that have happened in Japan during Mr. Hansen's stay in Japan (off topic, but still):

    As far as I know, Zeiss has had a partnership with Sony for a long time, but until 2005, that was mostly limited to video cameras. In 2005/2006, when sony acquired the camera division of Konica Minolta, the need for high quality SLR lenses arose, and several Zeiss lenses were launched during the summer 2006.

    Until then, only Contax, made by Kyocera, one of Konica Minolta's competitors, was the only Japanese camera brand using Zeiss SLR lenses. One can easily see that Zeiss must have seen a greater future potential with Sony than with Kyocera/Contax. Can Kyocera's abrupt and rather unexpected exit from the camera business in April 2005 simply have been a result of changing focus from Zeiss side, from Kyocera to Sony, a move that may have been seen as disloyal seen from the Kyocera side?

    Just wondering. Dr. Larry Hansen, who is apparently in full control at Hasselblad, must have been actively involved in all those processes. Was he the assassin of Contax so to say?

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    maybe the flip side of this is that Sony will announce a MF camera based on their new alliance with Hasselblab
    One must wonder how Fuji feels of this ??

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    Re: Breaking Hassleblad/Sony: "Lunar" mirrorless with sony E/A mount 5k EUR

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    maybe the flip side of this is that Sony will announce a MF camera based on their new alliance with Hasselblab
    That's what I've been thinking. The Lunar might be just scenery for the (rich) public. A way for Hasselblad to make a quick extra buck.
    Meanwhile, Sony might already be working on a MF sensor for Hassy, maybe even produce their own MF camera. Obviously, Sony is on the move to become a big player.

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