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Thread: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

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    Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    I've narrowed down my choices to two view cameras. For macro product photograpy (it would be nice to be able to do nature photography but not necessary) which of these two cameras would you guys recommend. The Linhof has more movements than the M-Line II. It's also more expensive. The Linhof also has a built in tripod head which negates the cost some. They're both have very fine geared movements. The Arca is lighter because of the elimination of some of the movements. Just wondering if others have had any experience with these two machines?

    Thx

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    I have the Linhof 679 in our studio. It is a fine camera. I mount it on a studio stand which allows the camera to be pointed down perpendicular to the floor--you won't be able to do that with a tripod; it simply points down 45 degree. The integrated head is really nice as it has no head to loosen from and can the camera can be put in all kinds of positions.

    It would be a heavy camera for the field. But it is really, really solid. I am very happy with the purchase.

    More movements or less movements. That is really personal and down to the photography you do. A lot of photography can be done with basic movements. The Linhof movements can make swings and such simpler as you can change the angles of the standards from perpendicular to the optical bench, but that might not be so important in practice.

    I doubt you could go wrong with either camera.

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    So, the integrated head won't allow it to point past 45 ? One of the savings would be selling my Arca D4 head.
    I like the M-Line 2 because it's lighter and seems to be less complicated.
    They're both yaw free cameras which is a big plus.
    I'm not sure whether the extra movements on the m679cs would be needed for my macro jewelry work. What do you think?

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    If you can tilt, swing, and shift each standard, you have everything you need. Movements are also limits by optics--I might be able to swing 360 degrees, but the image circle is not going to let me do that.

    I have found that movements are always subtle. The longer the focal length or bellows draw, the greater the movements. But still movements of about 10-15 degrees are large.

    It is hard for me to say exactly what is right for you. But I doubt the Arca does not have what you need. Have you used a view camera before?

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    The Arca has only the swing and the Orbix base tilt on the front, the rear does all the shifts and rise (70mm for both).

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    Well shifts are relative, whether you shift the front or back result in the same thing. Having only one standard that shifts/rises for me would be no big deal. I would want tilt/swing on both standards as they do different things.

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    I have had a M-Line II in my studio for almost three years. I bought it because of my previous experience with Arca 4x5" and 6x9cm cameras. Arca makes outstanding cameras. The M-Line II sits atop a studio stand and is used primarily for macro and table top work. It operates flawlessly with a sliding back and a P45. I use two main lenses, a Schneider Digitar 120 macro and a Cooke PS945 (Copal 3). I have various other Arca accessories I have accumulated over the years while using the film cameras and they can easily be used with this camera as well. I have never taken it outside because for me it is a studio camera. I would not hesitate to purchase it again if I had it to do all over.

    It is expensive especially when I find I am doing less and less work with it due to a change in direction, but I still enjoy having it in my tool box.

    I bought into the Alpa system for landscape work and although I enjoy my Alpa Max tremendously, I wish I had bought into the Arca R system for the inter-connectivity between the Arca platform--the R system was not available at the time I purchased the M-Line II or I would have purchased an Arca-Swiss RM3di and not the Alpa Max.
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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    What is the main feature you're looking for in a view camera over other types of close up equipment?

    I own the Arca ML2 and shoot product (but not macro) with it and have never needed tilt or swing on the rear carrier. The Arca is a really nice compact camera and worth noting, unlike many view cameras is as happy with very wide lenses as it is with telephoto's. Not sure about the Linhof but most view cameras don't get the standards close enough together to focus a wide lens at infinity. Shashin will chip in but it could make the Arca a more flexible choice.

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    I use a 55mm on my Linhof in a recessed board and Linhof states it can take focal length as short as 43mm. Bag bellows is really needed, even with the 55mm. The standard bellows works well with a 90mm lens and if you add micro extension to that, then the standard bellows is very nice.

    I think when you get to this level of equipment, it really comes down to personal taste. I was also thinking of an Arca when searching for the view camera and it came down to the fact I got a really good deal on the Linhof.

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I would want tilt/swing on both standards as they do different things.
    Shashin, can you elaborate on this and how not having tilt\swing on both standards would apply toward macro product photography?

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    Does the ML2 have front rise and fall?

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MedShooter View Post
    Shashin, can you elaborate on this and how not having tilt\swing on both standards would apply toward macro product photography?
    Front standard controls the position of the plane of focus. The rear standard controls the plane of focus and linear perspective.

    I can use the front standard for making the plane of focus intersect the object at an angle--imagine shooting a watch face at an angle, I can have the plane of focus follow the watch face by just using the front standard.

    Now I have a cylinder shaped object and I want to shoot it an angle. However, I want to keep the sides of the cylinder parallel, I could then use the rear standard parallel to the length of the cylinder to keep the lines from converging. (I can also swing the back away to give greater linear perspective by making the lines recede faster.)

    So there are two basic conditions for focus:

    1. When the object plane, lens plane, and sensor plane are parallel--shooting the brick wall type of setup.

    2. When the object plane, lens plane, and sensor plane intersect. By using the front standard, perspective does not change from the POV. By using the rear, you influence the perspective. And you can use both for greater control over perspective.

    The art of controlling perspective with the rear standard seems to be less used today. Most examples I see on the web only show examples with fixed backs.

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Front standard controls the position of the plane of focus. The rear standard controls the plane of focus and linear perspective.

    I can use the front standard for making the plane of focus intersect the object at an angle--imagine shooting a watch face at an angle, I can have the plane of focus follow the watch face by just using the front standard.

    Now I have a cylinder shaped object and I want to shoot it an angle. However, I want to keep the sides of the cylinder parallel, I could then use the rear standard parallel to the length of the cylinder to keep the lines from converging. (I can also swing the back away to give greater linear perspective by making the lines recede faster.)

    So there are two basic conditions for focus:

    1. When the object plane, lens plane, and sensor plane are parallel--shooting the brick wall type of setup.

    2. When the object plane, lens plane, and sensor plane intersect. By using the front standard, perspective does not change from the POV. By using the rear, you influence the perspective. And you can use both for greater control over perspective.

    The art of controlling perspective with the rear standard seems to be less used today. Most examples I see on the web only show examples with fixed backs.
    well explained and your summary is so true. a rear standard needs tilt and swing for product photography.

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    Shashin, did the Linhof only bend 45 degrees?
    I don't have a studio stand so I might need to find another solution if that's the case.

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    If the Linhof is mounted to the top of a tripod, you can only tilt the camera about 45 degrees. If you mount the camera on another head, then you are OK. Or if you can find a simple wedge on your tripod or get an arm like this:

    Manfrotto 131DD Tripod Accessory Arm for Four Heads (Silver)

    BTW, a rise on the rear standard with a corresponding tilt of the whole camera is like simply a tilt on the read standard. Movements are all relative. It might just take a little thought than simply using a view camera with very flexible standards.

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    BTW, a rise on the rear standard with a corresponding tilt of the whole camera is like simply a tilt on the read standard. Movements are all relative. It might just take a little thought than simply using a view camera with very flexible standards.
    So you're saying the M Line 2 can be made to do basically the same thing?

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    Re: Linhof m679cs over Arca M-Line II ?

    Medshooter, if you use 70mm of rise at the rear and then frame your object by moving the whole camera, you have effectively tilted the sensor plane back. So yes, you can do very much the same things. It just takes some thought. The original Linhof had no shifts--that is the model I have--but you can shift the lens by tilting the rail and making the standards parallel, an elegant solution, but I think folks thought the camera was missing shifts and so Linhof added it.

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