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Thread: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

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    Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Hi all,

    Is there anyone out there using the (relatively new) Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar lens on film and / or with a digital back? What's it like with movements on film and is the image circle restrictive for moderate rise / fall? On digital, is it up to snuff with 60mp? And with rise / fall movements?

    I've recently bought a Linhof Techno although not received it yet and originally ordered a Rodenstock 55mm f4,5 Apo-Grandagon because it has a far larger image circle that would be ideal for 6x7cm film, although less than ideal for 40mp+ digital. Due to a delay in Rodenstock delivery to the dealer, I have the option on the 60mm Schneider (for more money) for a Rodenstock Apo-Sironar Dig. 4.5/55mm. Does anyone have opinions on any of these lenses on film and digital? I don't need MASSIVE movements, just moderate. I guess I'd prefer to buy once and not have to worry about upgrading my glass when I do finally go to a fully digital workflow.

    I guess it'd be informative to say that I'm used to Mamiya 7 lenses, which I always found near on perfect. I shoot mainly at f11 and (obviously with the Techno) on a tripod. Do the cheaper Rodenstock 55mm lenses stack up to the Mamiya 7 50mm?

    Thanks for your help!

    TJV

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Massive image circle capable of big movements with very little IQ fall off and is considered to be one, if not the sharpest digital lenses Schneider make.

    Check out this test for some examples.

    Lens - Capture Integration - Medium Format Digital Back Sales & Rental and Other Professional Photographic Equipment :: Capture Integration – Medium Format Digital Back Sales & Rental and Other Professional Photographic Equipment

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    I am pretty sure Guy had one for a while anyway.

    Dave

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Definitely an excellent lens on a digital back, I have never used one on film.

    With a 60mp back, you can expect 30mm of shift without total loss of color/saturation. This is only lens I have used that really allows you to shift past 20mm on a 60mp back. The clarity, contrast and color are excellent also. I recently went ahead and added the new CF to this lens and I don't regret it.

    I don't often use rise/fall, but shift. With the rm3di, on an L bracket you can make your standard rise/fall, shift. So with lens on I regularly shift 30mm and 20mm with really no problems.

    Also light weight and compact to carry in the back.

    Paul

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Thanks, guys.
    Is this lens sometimes given the XL designation, but not always?
    The lens that I'm receiving has a 120mm image circle and is described by the dealer as a Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar.
    Thanks!
    TJV

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Thanks, guys.
    Is this lens sometimes given the XL designation, but not always?
    The lens that I'm receiving has a 120mm image circle and is described by the dealer as a Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar.
    Thanks!
    TJV
    Not sure about the XL designation but that's the latest version as the old 60mm Apo-Digitar was an f4.0.

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Thanks, Gareth. This lens seems a brilliant performer. I'm sure it will be brilliant on film, also. I'm just hoping it offers enough IC for movements I like to perform. I guess I'll soon find out...

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    The Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar XL is a stellar lens...... sharp, sharp, sharp. I have no issues with shifting 15mm and even then my edges are very sharp. An unbelievable lens.

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    I'm just hoping it offers enough IC for movements I like to perform. I guess I'll soon find out...
    As the larest generation of digital lenses go, the SK60 has the biggest IC currently available. I can think of other lenses that match it's 120mm size but none that better it.

    So, if it doesn't give you enough movements you're stuck sorry.
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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    I just got this lens, to give an idea of the image circle, it covers almost the same FoV as the 35XL! With shifts, I can just cover a "21mm" FoV (that's in FF terms, as in Zeiss 21/2.8 .. that kind of FoV) with the 60, I can get "25mm"

    Unfortunately, it requires a very sturdy tripod, and it has no magic powers of improving my compositions. ..damn...

    --Matt
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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    The Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar XL is a stellar lens...... sharp, sharp, sharp. I have no issues with shifting 15mm and even then my edges are very sharp. An unbelievable lens.
    Thanks, Vjbelle. Are you shooting film or digital? If the lens has a 120mm IC and the diagonal of 6x7cm film is 91mm, that means I *should* be able to shift / rise 14.5mm. I'm guessing the IC is specs as relating to f11.

    My problem is that because I've only shot 4x5", and never with a camera with a mm scale to tell me how much rise I'm using, I'm not sure how this measurement translates on 6x7cm film. As I say, I can't afford the digital back just now. That will come in the next year or so, hopefully.

    It does indeed seem like the 60mm lens is a total no brainer though.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    I am pretty sure Guy had one for a while anyway.

    Dave
    Maybe the best tech lens around. It's got a great look to it and it is a laser.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Thanks, Guy. I'm getting the feeling that I can't go wrong with this lens. Well, my bank account can, but that's another story!

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Also, am I right in thinking the 60mm is NOT a retrofocus lens? Does it even matter at this focal length when using GG to focus?

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Thanks, Guy. I'm getting the feeling that I can't go wrong with this lens. Well, my bank account can, but that's another story!
    You really can't go wrong with it, it's that good. Now it may affect your lineup though since its kind of a odd lineup in a 4 lens kit sort of. Lots of tech shooter go like 40,70,120 maybe a 23 or 28 also . Which is a nice kit 28,40,70,120. This lens is nice as a three lens kit like 32or 35, 60 and maybe 90 or 120. Myself I went 28, 60 and , 120 since you can sitch like crazy with it you can get effective 32 or 40 effectively as we'll. so given the 120IC it opens up some focal lengths too. Like any system we like to gap our lenses in our lineup this lens can be used to be pretty versatile in focal length. I used it in a Cambo TS mount which was really nice. Nice thing also I liked the look of the glass.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Thanks again, Guy. Sounds like a winner.
    I'm a simple guy, really. In 4x5" I only shoot 2 lenses – 90mm and 150mm. For 6x7 I've ordered a 90mm HR W and originally the 55mm. There is a rather long delay in delivery of the 55mm which got me thinking of the 60mm. As I'm migrating this kit slowly to digital, the 60mm seems a better long game option and close enough to a 4x5" 90mm equiv. on 6x7 to do the trick. I hope to get a P45+ or P65+ eventually and assemble a 35mm / 60mm / 90mm kit. I'm not into extreme wide or anything longer. I'm very much looking forward to receiving my new Techno in about a week.

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Yes the nice thing stitching this lens can give you wide when you need it . LCC correction with this lens is also a very weak correction and its really only illumination. I never had a color issue either with a LCC or not. That big IC really helps a lot as you rarely will come close to getting near the end of it. I never saw any issues going out to 15mm on my Cambo or rise and fall for that matter.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    It really is the ideal one lens kit although not wide enough for some folks why they go 40 or 43. I like the 32/35, 60, 90 or 120 setup. But I was hell bent on that 28mm and loved the look of it so gave up the 35. Just depends on needs here like anything else. This is also not a inexpensive lens either. Matt just got his and he will be using it in Zion next week. Dying to see how much he likes it, I kind of talked him into it. I'm so bad. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Guy, why do you think I live in Cleveland not Arizona? Think I like it here?? No way; it's because I am far away from you. If we lived near each other I would be a broke(n) man.

    Only thing worse would be Calgary, and I really like the mountains. I'd have to rob banks to half-keep up with Mr. Duffin.

    Dave

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Hey we are thinking Canadian rookies next fall. Yes I am a wanted man by many spouses. I am just big trouble. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Dave you can borrow one of my many custom made ski masks at anytime. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Is there such thing as a digital ski mask for "acquiring" expensive gear online, or is that simply credit card fraud?

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Thanks, Vjbelle. Are you shooting film or digital? If the lens has a 120mm IC and the diagonal of 6x7cm film is 91mm, that means I *should* be able to shift / rise 14.5mm. I'm guessing the IC is specs as relating to f11.

    My problem is that because I've only shot 4x5", and never with a camera with a mm scale to tell me how much rise I'm using, I'm not sure how this measurement translates on 6x7cm film. As I say, I can't afford the digital back just now. That will come in the next year or so, hopefully.

    It does indeed seem like the 60mm lens is a total no brainer though.
    I am shooting with an IQ180 on an Alpa STC. 15mm shift is very close to 0.6 inches - if that helps any.

    Victor

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Thanks, Victor.
    I guess I phrased my question regarding movements in a way that isn't so clear. What I'm unclear about is how much, for example, 30mm rise on 4x5" format with a 90mm lens equates to in mm rise on 6x7cm format with an equivalent lens. Or, in other words, when you drop format size and use an equivalent lens does the amount of movement in mm stay the same or does it drop according to the smaller format? Does that make sense? I think I'm going crazy!
    T

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Or, in other words, when you drop format size and use an equivalent lens does the amount of movement in mm stay the same or does it drop according to the smaller format? Does that make sense?
    T
    Makes perfect sense to me. There really should be mathematical way to state all of this but I'll let that up to someone else.

    Victor

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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    Scale everything by the ratio of the sensor/film sizes. If the sensor is half as big, and the lens used is half the focal length, so (DoF aside) the pictures are similar, then a shift of 30mm on the large sensor corresponds to a shift of 15mm on the smaller one.

    -Matt
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    Re: Schneider 60mm f5.6 Apo Digitar

    So would I be right in thinking that 6x7cm is approximately 1/3 the image area of 4x5"? If this is correct, I only need to shift the lens 1/3 the amount (physical movement) to give me the equivalent affect, all other things being equal? If so, that would be great because it would suggest the 60mm Schneider's 120mm IC is all I'd personally need on 6x7cm format.

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