Help re tech camera lenses please

[danlindberg]

If you are matching lenses for a 60mp back, then both the 28XL and 35XL are great options. You just need to know their limitations and shoot accordingly.

On the Credo 60 both are pinsharp across the frame zeroed. Solid file with 10mm/8mm movement for the 35XL and 8mm/6mm for the 28XL - that's where I draw the line. LCC needed for both. Centrefilter needed for both.

Both not usable at all with 80mp back so if that is the path then they are not an option. The 35XL are quite common on the second hand market at decent prices but I have read that quite a few have needed to get them calibrated. I know I had to calibrate mine at Schneider, but o my, what a difference! Couldn't be happier with it. Just saying if you find a used one and not happy from square one...

The SK 72L is a candidate to my 'all-time-favorite-lens'. I find it extraordinary in all respects. Yes, it is true that if I started from scratch I would opt for the new 60XL with its enormous image circle and excellent formula, but my trusty 72 actually beats it in one regard - it is much better should you need it for macro work. In fact, the 72 is a marvel and maybe the best allround lens you could find. Nice and light is a bonus.

Longer Schneiders are all great and I cannot recall I have read anywhere anybody not liking them. They just do their job!

For me, I have found that the older I get (I'm not that old but....) I tend to pack lighter and lighter for hiking. Nowadays I am perfectly happy with my SWA, the 28XL (or 35XL) and the 72L and stop there! That did not happen a couple of years ago...thinking all the time that if I didn't have everything I own with me, then I would miss thousands of images! That simply isn't the case. In fact, with a comfortable and ultralight backpack you stay fresh and happier longer and much more alert for compositions all around you.

There is always the option to start out with one or two lenses in a tech setup to get used to the workflow and grow to have a mindset of looking for framing the two focal lengths you have. Promise there are images everywhere even with fewer lenses

Good luck

 

[narikin]

A four lens setup: hr23 + hr32 + sk60 + sk120

Nope - too big a gap between 60 and 120. I'd take the new 90mm over the HR23 any day (but then, I don't need anything that wide myself: 32 is more than enough, especially if stitched, which makes it wider again)

And, once again, they new 90mm Rodenstock/Alpagon is the single sharpest corner to corner lens I have ever used. Simply in a whole other ball park to the old 90mm, and every other lens of this length.

my 4 would be: 40 (or 32), 60, 90, 120.

 

[RodK]

That 'Tech Camera Overview' was a notorious post here, for its compilation by a dealer who does not sell Alpa, and wanted to list things baldly and make what they do sell look good. Created quite a storm, so take it with a big pinch of salesman's salt.

For example, Alpa cameras like the Max do not really have a front and back, so you can swap them about to switch the rise/fall and shift movements if you prefer to have a longer range horizontally (panorama) or vertically (tall building). Moreover, it should also be stated that on nearly all newer design Digital Tech MF lenses, the limiting factor is usually the image circle, not the camera's abilities, so a larger range of movements is somewhat moot.

But there is some mechanical vignetting on standard to longer focal lengths,due to narrower lens mounts on Alpa and Cambo, than the mount found on the Arca-Swiss R cameras...

 

[miska]

Hi,
This is really helpful, thanks !

Is there any major difference between the 60mm XL and the 50mm HR ? I may want to try flat stitching at some point, and I get the impression the 60mm HR is the king of flat stitching...
Any other major differences (except 10mm in focal length) between the two ?

For the moment, I am still tending towards 32mm HR, 50 mm HR (or 60mm XL), 90mm HR, and then either a 120mm (Schneider) or perhaps even a 150mm, but perhaps a bit later.
Is it correct to say that longer lenses (from 120mm upwards ?) are trickier to use on a tech cam than the wider angles (simply due to their physical length) ?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Yes just like normal shooting . The spacer is the same on 120 and 150 but the lens is longer on the 150.

I can't speak for the 50 HR but the SK 60 is a laser. Loved that lens. Lot if folks bought it after I did. There happy campers. Lol

 

[Wayne Fox]

I can't speak to the 28HR but I would agree that the 23HR is a fussy lens to work with if only because of it's propensity to centre hot spots in any kind of flare conditions.

I have tried my a 23HR a couple of times, and to be honest it's just too wide for me. I have the 28mm for my DF kit, and have never really felt a need for much wider. Using the 23HR just confirmed that, and it is a pretty finicky lens. Results are nice, but so far every shot I've taken I've ended up cropping to what I would have had with the 28 or even the 35.

I guess when I start getting that wide, I feel like I need to stitch to preserve the detail, and stitching with the 40 and 70 rodie really works well.

I'm going to sell or trade the 23HR so I can try the 28.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I liked using the 23 but if I bought back in I would buy the 28

 

[TheoG]

My list for an 80mp back would be:

A one lens setup: sk60
A two lens setup: hr32 + sk60
A three lens setup: hr32 + sk60 + sk120
A four lens setup: hr23 + hr32 + sk60 + sk120

Hi Dan,

Are you referring to the Schneider PC-TS 5.6/120 mm or Apo-Helvetar 5.6/120 mm?

Regards,
Theo

 

[greygrad]

Bill,

Hard to go wrong with a Rodie 32 or 40 as your wide, a SK 60 or Rodie 70 as your normal, and a SK 120 as your long. There is no really stellar large IC 100/105 yet, but that would be my ideal long landscape lens if there were.

I was browsing the S/K (Europe) website and came across this - looks like there's a 100/5.6 Aspheric in the offing - note the 120mm image circle at f/11 (the old 100/5.6 'N' had a max. 100mm image circle).

 

[Pemihan]

That's very helpful, where exactly did you find this?

Peter

I was browsing the S/K (Europe) website and came across this - looks like there's a 100/5.6 Aspheric in the offing - note the 120mm image circle at f/11 (the old 100/5.6 'N' had a max. 100mm image circle).

 

[Shashin]

For me, I have found that the older I get (I'm not that old but....) I tend to pack lighter and lighter for hiking. Nowadays I am perfectly happy with my SWA, the 28XL (or 35XL) and the 72L and stop there! That did not happen a couple of years ago...thinking all the time that if I didn't have everything I own with me, then I would miss thousands of images! That simply isn't the case. In fact, with a comfortable and ultralight backpack you stay fresh and happier longer and much more alert for compositions all around you.

+1

+1

+1

 

[Don Libby]

I own a Cambo WRS and it seems to work well for me. That said, I've had 4-lenes in the 5-years I've used the WRS. I started with a 28 which at the time was just too wide to do any movements (using a P45+) and sold it. I bought a 35, 72 and 120 the same time I bought the WRS and have used all three successfully with movements. I quickly learned each lens was capable of slightly more movements, starting with the 35 and ending with the 120 which I found could take the largest amount. I used this 3-lens combo until just this year when I switch the 35 for a Rodi 4 with tilt/swing.

Reading the original question I see Bill is interested in landscape work (which is the majority of what I do) and more interested in tilt than shift. I've been using shift for the past 5-years to achieve some rather good files that depending of the location/lens used looks good 30x40 or 30x60. Just my personal experience.

Regarding Schneider and Rodenstock. I'm not about to regurgitate the 7o answers found here.

Here's my take on the 3-ranges asked about.

45-55 range, normally I wouldn't answer since I don't have personal experience however having the Rodi 40 and since it's close enough I will. Can't say how pleased I am with this lens. I upgraded from the SK 35 with an eye to future back upgrade (either a 180 or 280). I've found lens cast not to be an issue as well as a large enough image circle to suit my needs. While I don't normally need to run an LCC I do so because I'm used to doing it and it doesn't take that much time. I very strongly suggest looking at this lens.

75-90 range, again I'm just outside of this with a SK 72. This has a great image circle for my needs and just about lives on the camera. I haven't sent it in yet however it will be going in soon to have the tilt/swing lens plate added. I'd have to say that slightly over 50% of my landscape is with this lens.

150mm range. Again I'm slightly off the mark here having a SK 120 short barrel. The really good news is the image circle is huge with this lens and from what I've heard is similar to the 150. The bad news is that it it a royal PIA to; you have to remove the back and place before using the spacer then reinsert the back. The lens front works like any other and is quick to attach. I'll confess that I've given thought to changing to the 150 however the amount of money to do that and what I can get for the 120 I just can't justify the cost per added focal length. I'd recommend going right out of the box with the 150. After experiencing just how good the short barrel is I'd still recommend it due to the freaking huge image circler over the more user friendly long barrel 120/150.


Don


I wrote this then noticed I had already answered one before. What the heck, I'll just leave this here...

 

[greygrad]

That's very helpful, where exactly did you find this?

Peter

The pdf is available in the download area for the 43 and 60.

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/uploads/tx_curoproduktdb/Digital_lenses_2_e.pdf

The 100/asph was pictured and listed alongside the 120/asph in the 'apo digitar' section - but when I went back to look at it again, it had vanished.

 

[Pemihan]

This is such a great thread, lets keep it rolling..:angel:

I'm thinking of moving to a IQ260 and in the process also get a Rodie 40 HR and a SK60XL.

Regarding the SK60XL, I know it has a huge image circle which makes it great for stitching, which is why I'm looking at it.
But how does it behave regarding showing centerfold lines and the like?

I do a lot of high contrast B&W where that really is an issue with the 47XL which I have at the moment.

I assume the Rodie 40 HR being retro focus is of no concern regarding this?

Peter

 

[dchew]

Peter,
I'm not sure how much the lens has to do with centerfolds. I have an image from a PODAS workshop, that has a centerfold issue if I push it hard a certain way. That was taken on the DF with zoom attached at about 120mm.

However, I could see the rational for thinking a retro design would help. I certainly don't think it would hurt!

Dave

 

[Pemihan]

Dave,

Centerfold issues and the like most often (for me) appear when using lenses from which the light hits the sensor at a steep angel, eg wides like SK35XL and lenses with a very large image circle. That's just my observations...

Peter

 

[greygrad]

Latest sighting of the S/K 100mm 'Aspherical' - this time in Cambo's 2013 pricelist. Price would indicate the lens is a new design, but the IC is stated as 100mm, which seems a bit conservative (though the S/K PDF posted above states that it's 100mm at full aperture, 120mm at f/11, so maybe the former is what they're quoting).

 

[dougpeterson]

There was some confusion about the IC when the 120ASPH first launched, largely because of two typos, including one on Schneider's own website.

But I can tell you I am 100% positive the stated image circle of a 120ASPH is 150mm* (assuming no mechanical vignette in whatever mount you purchase/use it in).

I have the mechanical drawing, internal analysis sheet, and confirmation from the Photo Product Manager at Schneider in Germany.

I'll reach out to Rene Rook at Cambo to find out if their datasheet is a typo or if there is some other explanation.

*It's actually listed internally as 153mm, but these numbers are traditionally rounded for any public-facing documents, likely because having such a precise number gives the false impression that image circles are exact hard-edged circles. And don't forget Schneider tends to be a big aggressive/liberal in their statement of the image circle - you usually need to subtract 5-10mm (lens/back/use dependent) from what they say if you want to know the maximum sharp+usable area of the image circle. This is unlike Rodenstock who tend to be a bit more conservative in what they state the image circle to be.

 

[greygrad]

Thanks Doug - it would be great to get some hard facts. I assume the 100ASPH exists, but there's really nothing substantial out there to confirm this. The most I've seen are mentions of it in S/K and Cambo literature - it's not mentioned on the B&H, Alpa, Linhof & Studio etc. websites. Regarding IC, the older 'N' version has a 100mm IC, so if there was a new version you'd hope it would have an IC around the 120mm mark.

 

[miska]

So what about lens choices in the (much less discussed for tech-cams) range of ~150mm. I really like that focal length, and it would be a good fit after the HR 90mm that I've ordered (it seems it will take a while to get that one). What I have found so far in 150mm:
- Rodenstock makes an Apo Sironar digital f/5.6
- Schneider has an APO Digitar N f/5.6

Are there any "oldies but goodies" as alternative choices ? Although I suspect mounting them on an Arca-tube will not be cheap.
Any other options ? Opinions ?
The "canonical" answer seems to be the SK 120mm macro, but that's probably a tad too short, since I'll have a 90mm.
I also know you need a contraption between the back and the camera for lenses longer than 120mm. Is that an annoyance, or not really ?

Thanks in advance for your wisdom !