Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 38 of 38

Thread: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

  1. #1
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    The Phase Gods smiled more kindly on me today - I went out with the loaner Mamiya 80mm 2.8 and shot side by side with my P1 kit lens and am now satisfied that I'm not mad, sloppy or picky: the Mamy gives the results I expect, sharp to the edges at all low-mid apertures even if it's a bit softer than my lens on centre wide open. At F5, even where my lens has mostly sharpened up at the edges, and even though mine is worse in the corners than the edges, the Mamiya has a clear advantage at the sides of the frame of these crop shows: (full frame first - I won't identify the lenses cos the answer is clear!)

    Attachment 9167

    Attachment 9168

    Attachment 9169


    Finally a centre crop from the Mamiya shot shows me just how much detail will be available when I really start to dig! This with LR default sharpening:

    Attachment 9170

    One more question though: why do all my shots seem underexposed by 2/3rds to 1 1/2 stops? The camera meter agrees with my Sekonic but every single shots looks too dark and in some I have had to boost exposure so much that even at low ISO shadow noise starts to creep in.

    I know that many popular SLRs have real ISO about 1/2 stop faster than nominal but I'm guessing that the real ISO on the P45+ is 1/2 lower than nominal, maybe more - and this when there's not a lot of sensitivity to play with in the first place. Anyone else found similar?

    T

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    carstenw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    2,530
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Doesn't the Phase One backs have a tendency to lose the highlights, if overexposed? I seem to recall reading something like this on John Black's 645 blog. In that case, it would make sense for Phase One to tune their backs to underexpose slightly, to reduce the risk. Could that be it? The ISO 50 shadows are apparently good enough to just pull up the image to compensate, without getting noise. Have you tried this at ISO 50?
    Carsten - Website

  3. #3
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Tim,
    This is because Lightroom really can't figure out the Phase metadata. Take a look at them with Capture One to wee what I mean.
    I bet they will look just fine there. What you can do to compensate (to some extent) is to define a lightroom develop preset that applies this perceived exposure bias at import time.
    -bob

  4. #4
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    One more question though: why do all my shots seem underexposed by 2/3rds to 1 1/2 stops?
    Tim: One more time, cause you are still not "getting it" or at least all of it ---

    IF YOU WANT THE MOST FROM A PHASE FILE, USE C1 TO CONVERT! As Bob indicated, Adobe has not figured how to utilize Phase metadata yet. By insisting on using LR, you are leaving detail and color on the table, likely clipping highlights that don't have any clipped channels AND adding chromatic and/or pattern artifacts that aren't there...

    Okay, last time I tell you to use C1 instead of LR -- promise!

    ,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    California/Thailand
    Posts
    1,206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Tim, just to pile on : I prefer Bridge and PS soooooooooooo much to C-1, but I can see a HUGE difference when my Phase files are converted in C-1. I do what I can in C-1 and then jump ship A.S.A.P. to PS because I really do not like C-1. It's my hang-up because it's just not designed for the workflow that I prefer.

    You might like to at least do a comparison by converting a few files and exporting them as TIFFs (some use DNG) and then looking at them in PS or your tool of choice. There is a bit of learning curve (or un-learning curve) to make C-1 feel a bunch better than first impression IMO, and there are some helpful VDOs on the P1 site.

    Congrats on the break-throughs.

  6. #6
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    FWIW, I *hated* C1 prior to version 4. IMO, the net C1 Pro 4.2 workflow is not all that different from LR/ACR, once you get the hang of the menu structure/locations. Once you learn a few of the secret handshakes (shortcuts) it blows the doors off LR/ACR
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  7. #7
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Bill Caulfeild-Browne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Bruce Peninsula, Canada
    Posts
    2,535
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    184

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Tim: One more time, cause you are still not "getting it" or at least all of it ---

    IF YOU WANT THE MOST FROM A PHASE FILE, USE C1 TO CONVERT! As Bob indicated, Adobe has not figured how to utilize Phase metadata yet. By insisting on using LR, you are leaving detail and color on the table, likely clipping highlights that don't have any clipped channels AND adding chromatic and/or pattern artifacts that aren't there...

    Okay, last time I tell you to use C1 instead of LR -- promise!

    ,
    Jack is right. I used nothing but LR until recently - and now I will never use it for Phase files. Ci is just way ahead - as it ought to be, after all. They are the manufacturer of the back.
    Bill

  8. #8
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Okay Guys,

    I was using LR for convenience and familiarity sake, having tried the various versions of C1 that came with my various Leica cameras and found it very slightly better but a royal PITA to use. SO I just took everyone's advice and WOW is there ever a HUGE difference when the files are dealt with in C1. Just vastly better and no way I can find to make one set of LR tweaks that works for all files.

    So one the one hand, great - the file quality is awesomely better than I'd yet seen and in particular the colours are so nice. But on the other hand I am a LR addict for its cataloguing abilities and it really is where I keep everything. So now I have to process each shot from a 40mb image to a 235mb image so I can keep it in LR for reference purposes. Which kind of sucks.

    Hmm - really gonna have to take far fewer and far better shots or my drives are going to clog!

    Thanks for the advice guys!

    Tim

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    California/Thailand
    Posts
    1,206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    FWIW, I *hated* C1 prior to version 4. IMO, the net C1 Pro 4.2 workflow is not all that different from LR/ACR, once you get the hang of the menu structure/locations. Once you learn a few of the secret handshakes (shortcuts) it blows the doors off LR/ACR
    Jack, I know that part of my "issues" with C-1 are my incompetence and a propensity to resist change. I am using v4.x, but not the 4.5 flavor yet. To be fair, there are some features that I really like with C-1, and the relationship seems to improve with time.

    Frankly, P1 could get me to stop whining about the app if when I opened a folder of new images they weren't all set at 4400K WB and "Flash" profile (a Preference setting). I'm sure there's a way to select all images and change them to 5500K or so, but every time I think I've figured it out I miss. The process (from the VDOs) of adjusting one image, uploading the adjustment settings, and then applying those images to another image is a pain (and extremely tedious). I just want to see them all in a color temp that's halfway close to daylight. I was going to start a thread in the Processing forum to ask this question anyway. I'm sure I'm missing some bone-head key combo or something that will allow me to start with images not all looking ice-blue. If I could push them all to a new color temp to start (with a select all or similar, until they fix the preference option) I might not enter into the process in a grumpy mood.



    All that said, I repeat, I still much prefer the conversions of C-1 for the Phase files.

  10. #10
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Okay Guys,
    WOW is there ever a HUGE difference when the files are dealt with in C1. Just vastly better and no way I can find to make one set of LR tweaks that works for all files.
    Glad we finally got that one settled

    Hmm - really gonna have to take far fewer and far better shots or my drives are going to clog!
    Nope. Hard drives are pretty cheap now --- you can regularly buy 1TB Samsung, WD or Seagate drives for right around $110 each, or roughly 11 cents per gig of storage... That nets out to about 2.75 cents per converted image and less than a penny per raw image. My guess is that even with fully duplicated storage that won't even dent your morning coffee budget
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  11. #11
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Jack, I know that part of my "issues" with C-1 are my incompetence and a propensity to resist change.
    Yep, I get that cause that's me too... But now that I have the benefit of many years of hindsight, quite often I found that kind of stubbornness proved to be limiting...

    Frankly, P1 could get me to stop whining about the app if when I opened a folder of new images they weren't all set at 4400K WB and "Flash" profile (a Preference setting).
    Agreed that it's ridiculous to not allow us a set of default preference settings for initial WB --- but my spies assure me it is coming soon

    I'm sure there's a way to select all images and change them to 5500K or so, but every time I think I've figured it out I miss.
    This is easy --> Work the first file to your preferred WB and camera profile choice. Then hit the top bar icon that looks like a grocery list with an arrow pointing up and out of it -- that is the "Copy image Settings" icon. Now select all the other images you want to apply those settings to -- Shift+Click selects all in a range, CMD/CTRL+Click adds each to the total selection. Then hit the grocery list with the arrow pointing into it -- that's the apply copied settings -- and presto, all your images have the new settings. (FWIW, LR works almost identically.) You can also select the similar list/arrow pointer icon and then each frame you click on gets the saved settings. Note that ALL settings including WB, sharpening, etc are copied by default, but in the settings tab you can modify what gets copied/applied.

    All that said, I repeat, I still much prefer the conversions of C-1 for the Phase files.
    Yup!

    ,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    California/Thailand
    Posts
    1,206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Agreed that it's ridiculous to not allow us a set of default preference settings for initial WB --- but my spies assure me it is coming soon
    That's encouraging news. (Though I think we were expecting it with 4.5, still great to know it's on the list.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    This is easy --> Work the first file to your preferred WB and camera profile choice. Then hit the top bar icon that looks like a grocery list with an arrow pointing up and out of it -- that is the "Copy image Settings" icon. Now select all the other images you want to apply those settings to -- Shift+Click selects all in a range, CMD/CTRL+Click adds each to the total selection. Then hit the grocery list with the arrow pointing into it -- that's the apply copied settings -- and presto, all your images have the new settings. (FWIW, LR works almost identically.) You can also select the similar list/arrow pointer icon and then each frame you click on gets the saved settings. Note that ALL settings including WB, sharpening, etc are copied by default, but in the settings tab you can modify what gets copied/applied.
    Jack, thanks for this. I knew that it was there, but I was clicking/holding something out of order. I think maybe my wrist was turned out just a bit too far to the right.

    And with regard to the "difficulty with change" trait, I agree completely and fully acknowledge the shortcomings. I'm working on it. Might have it handled in time to accept a change in the lining material of my pine box.

    Thanks again for taking the time to fix my misunderstanding. I just haven't been willing to really troubleshoot it like I normally would because of... well... I have no excuse.


  13. #13
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Jack, isn't there a way to import images so that they have the default settings (for e.g. WB) as shot?

    t

  14. #14
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Yes,
    When images import they are indeed "as shot"
    I usually set my back to wb "daylight" unless it is obviously "tungsten" or "flash" and take care of differences in post. Remember that daylight is not necessarily 5500. well it might be under standard conditions, but the number displayed is more of an arbitrary scale than you might like since there are few if any standards that normalize a kelvin temperature and an offset with the sunmbers in a bayer sensor. One programs's 5500 might be sortta kinda like anothers 4300.
    -bob

  15. #15
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Jack, isn't there a way to import images so that they have the default settings (for e.g. WB) as shot?

    t
    For right now, only if you're shooting tethered. Otherwise, they all come into C1 with the "Flash" camera profile setting. However, with Pro, you get whatever WB you have set in C1. I generally use "shot" and have my back set to daylight or one of my custom functions. You can also save your preferred sharpening setting as defaults.

    So for me, the irritation is the camera profile defaults to flash instead of daylight. The upside is those two camera profiles are virtually identical and if you have to default to one, then flash makes sense as as studio setting is usually when you'd want the most accuracy.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  16. #16
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Tim: One more time, cause you are still not "getting it" or at least all of it ---

    IF YOU WANT THE MOST FROM A PHASE FILE, USE C1 TO CONVERT! As Bob indicated, Adobe has not figured how to utilize Phase metadata yet. By insisting on using LR, you are leaving detail and color on the table, likely clipping highlights that don't have any clipped channels AND adding chromatic and/or pattern artifacts that aren't there...

    Okay, last time I tell you to use C1 instead of LR -- promise!

    ,
    Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Did I say Ditto, Ditto.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  17. #17
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    For right now, only if you're shooting tethered. Otherwise, they all come into C1 with the "Flash" camera profile setting. However, with Pro, you get whatever WB you have set in C1. I generally use "shot" and have my back set to daylight or one of my custom functions. You can also save your preferred sharpening setting as defaults.

    So for me, the irritation is the camera profile defaults to flash instead of daylight. The upside is those two camera profiles are virtually identical and if you have to default to one, then flash makes sense as as studio setting is usually when you'd want the most accuracy.
    Jack,
    I get the camera wb settings, it is only the camera profile that is stuck at "flash", but that does not matter much.
    -bob

  18. #18
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Yes,
    When images import they are indeed "as shot"
    I usually set my back to wb "daylight" unless it is obviously "tungsten" or "flash" and take care of differences in post. Remember that daylight is not necessarily 5500. well it might be under standard conditions, but the number displayed is more of an arbitrary scale than you might like since there are few if any standards that normalize a kelvin temperature and an offset with the sunmbers in a bayer sensor. One programs's 5500 might be sortta kinda like anothers 4300.
    -bob
    Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto,Ditto, Ditto.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  19. #19
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Jack,
    I get the camera wb settings, it is only the camera profile that is stuck at "flash", but that does not matter much.
    -bob
    Yea it is kind of meaningless but annoying . That is coming in the next fix
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    Posts
    2,077
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    Jack is right. I used nothing but LR until recently - and now I will never use it for Phase files. Ci is just way ahead - as it ought to be, after all. They are the manufacturer of the back.
    Bill
    Bill

    It is not true for only Phase backs. The M8 files are noticeably superior when processed by C4.5.II! I hate the workflow, interface et al but you can't argue with the results. Just MHO.........YMMV

    Woody

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    California/Thailand
    Posts
    1,206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    OK, Gents, what am I missing? (Well let's not go there.) What I mean is that my back is set to "Daylight" and the files always open in C-1 at 4400K, but Bob mentions 5500K. Are you getting 5500K from files opened "as shot" or "daylight" under WB mode?

    If so, something is not getting communicated on my setup. I'd love to have my daylight files open at 5500K as a starting point. What am I missing?

    EDIT: In my installation of C-1 v4.1.1.1.... WB mode for "shot" and "daylight" are both 4400K. Flash is 5500K (first time I checked that), and the others are about where you'd expect. Perhaps my install has a corruption for the "daylight" and "shot" modes. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Dale Allyn; 16th November 2008 at 15:57.

  22. #22
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    C1 opens as-shot "daylight" files at 4300 and "flash" at 5500.
    Both are more or less correct since daylight can fun from about 3500 to 6300 depending on time of year, atmospheric, time of day, and exposure to sky.
    So 4300 is as good as any other specific number. Some programs use 5500 as "standard" daylight, but according to ANSI and ISO (they have no artistic taste) Northern daylight mid latitude migth be at 6500, direct mid-day sunlight at 5000. So what you have is what you have. There is no "correct" white balance for all outdoor conditions, so what is a software designer to do? Pick one, and 4300 is as good as any.
    -bob

  23. #23
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Bill

    It is not true for only Phase backs. The M8 files are noticeably superior when processed by C4.5.II! I hate the workflow, interface et al but you can't argue with the results. Just MHO.........YMMV

    Woody
    Hi Woody,

    I agree and am working on a new workflow that means importing all files from all cameras into LR, using it as the catalogue for everything and the RAW developer for most things then, when I have my Picks and my Star Ratings sorted, getting those high-rated but C1-suited files put through C1 and processed into TIFF for reimporting into LR.

    It's not very convenient but it does mean one core workflow and one core catalogue. I'm just going to treat C1 as I would Photoshop - a place where 'special needs' files go for TLC.

    Given that I'm generally working towards a show of some kind, and that might just be twenty prints or so, the volumes will be fine... but this is clearly not something that's going to suit the wedding boys!

    t

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    California/Thailand
    Posts
    1,206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    C1 opens as-shot "daylight" files at 4300 and "flash" at 5500.
    Both are more or less correct since daylight can fun from about 3500 to 6300 depending on time of year, atmospheric, time of day, and exposure to sky.
    So 4300 is as good as any other specific number. Some programs use 5500 as "standard" daylight, but according to ANSI and ISO (they have no artistic taste) Northern daylight mid latitude migth be at 6500, direct mid-day sunlight at 5000. So what you have is what you have. There is no "correct" white balance for all outdoor conditions, so what is a software designer to do? Pick one, and 4300 is as good as any.
    -bob
    Bob, thanks for the confirmation of the settings (my daylight shows 4400K rather than 4300K, but no biggy).

    Re. "standard daylight": I get that. I'm into spectroscopy, critical viewing light, selective color absorption, north daylight as viewing in differing hemispheres, etc. for my work. I'll be using the "flash" setting of WB mode for awhile I think because it more closely approximates my shooting habits. 4400K in all but a few cases renders my images so blue that it's distracting as a starting point.

    A good day for picking up pointers in C-1. Thanks folks.

  25. #25
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Jack,
    I get the camera wb settings, it is only the camera profile that is stuck at "flash", but that does not matter much.
    -bob
    That's what I was trying to say -- also that you can change the default sharpening settings.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  26. #26
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    4400K in all but a few cases renders my images so blue that it's distracting as a starting point.
    Dale, is your back set to daylight WB and C1 set to "shot" when you get 4400? I get 4300/+2 for the daylight WB/tint.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  27. #27
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Bill Caulfeild-Browne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Bruce Peninsula, Canada
    Posts
    2,535
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    184

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Oh sith! Now I've got to try my Canon files too.....Thanks for the advice!
    Bill

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    860
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    76

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    ... I am a LR addict for its cataloguing abilities and it really is where I keep everything. So now I have to process each shot from a 40mb image to a 235mb image so I can keep it in LR for reference purposes. Which kind of sucks...
    Tim and others, for what its worth, Microsoft Expression Media is an alternative product for cataloging images (actually it will catalogue about any kind of file - they call it digital asset management). Microsoft has a teaming arrangement to market their product with C1. I saw a demonstration of the product a few days ago and it appeared to be capable even though the interface looked little clunky. Personally, I have no experience with it so I can't say how well it works. I have provided a couple links below. I believe a free trial is available. Also, if you decide to purchase it, let me know and I can help you with a way to get a discount. I don't have any affiliation with Microsoft, Phase One, or this product so please don't shoot the messenger if it doesn't suit you. Just trying to offer options here. Perhaps someone else on the forum has experience with this product and can offer an informed opinion.

    http://www.microsoft.com/prophoto/bettertogether.aspx

    http://www.microsoft.com/expression/...aspx?key=media

    Mark

  29. #29
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Except that it does a terrible job with phase raw files.
    I have abandoned it because of that.
    -bob

  30. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    California/Thailand
    Posts
    1,206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Dale, is your back set to daylight WB and C1 set to "shot" when you get 4400? I get 4300/+2 for the daylight WB/tint.
    Jack, yes, back set to daylight and C-1 set to "shot" mine shows 4400/+1. But remember I'm using a P25+ so perhaps that minor difference is because you and Bob are using "grown-up digital backs" and not this lowly "trainer".

    ...or maybe it's a v4.5 and v4.1 thing. (?)

  31. #31
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    Tim and others, for what its worth, Microsoft Expression Media is an alternative product for cataloging images (actually it will catalogue about any kind of file - they call it digital asset management).

    Mark
    Hey Mark, thanks for the info and the offer but as Macbeth said, "I am in blood stepped in so far that returning were as tedious as to go o'er"

    Or something like that. In other words, I've got tens of thousands of images in LR and it doesn't just know where they are and what they're worth, but it remembers what I once wanted to do with them... I can't imagine trying to transition them to another system, not do I want to run two catalogues so I'm kind of trapped. Happily so, however, since I think LR is brilliant and since I know that no one RAW program will be best for every past present and future camera. So it seems inevitable that it gets used in a hybrid way.

  32. #32
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Jack, yes, back set to daylight and C-1 set to "shot" mine shows 4400/+1. But remember I'm using a P25+ so perhaps that minor difference is because you and Bob are using "grown-up digital backs" and not this lowly "trainer".

    ...or maybe it's a v4.5 and v4.1 thing. (?)
    They are all trainers, like girlfriends there is always the next one.
    -bob

  33. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    860
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    76

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    I understand Tim, I am a LR junkie as well.

    Mark

  34. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    California/Thailand
    Posts
    1,206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    They are all trainers, like girlfriends there is always the next one.
    -bob
    Yes, Bob, I'm looking forward to the next one. I mean digital back my wife has suggested that a "next" girlfriend will be much more expensive than a DB and that I probably can't afford it.

  35. #35
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Dale. you speak truth
    -bob

  36. #36
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    5300 seems to be my magic kelvin temp. Basically i will find the one image to WB off of than copy that setting select all than apply to everything. Start going through the images and process as i go than if I hit a series that changes i will find another WB image copy , select all and copy to everything. I do this through the whole shooting session and make the quick global changes as i go. This provides much faster working times. I will work each image hit command D than arrow keys to go to the next image. Once you get the hang of working in C1 it becomes fast.

    Now for LR users a quick way to get around the Phase files issue is to create a preset on import . So first is exposure get a base line than get a baseline on color temp because it is way off. Than make a preset on importing the raws in and you won't notice any of the junk it does to the files. The other issue is noise with LR it is much worse than C1,so your going to have to deal with that and the files out of C1 are crisper looking but all of that could be done doing a preset on import. Even so i threw LR off my system forever. Ever camera i have shot with I like the files much better in C1 . DMR, M8, Nikon and canons and even does a nice job on my Oly 520.

    Now as far as a catalogue system obviously I make my own with separate drives on my Mac Pro. I have Raws only drive with name and date and a final drive which is all processed files with name and date. I also have a working raw drive that is 3 months deep on raw files and process off that drive and save to desktop than move to it's home on the Final drive, when it fills up just replace the drive and store the old one. I just did that the other day filled up a 1tb raw drive.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  37. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    California/Thailand
    Posts
    1,206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    5300 seems to be my magic kelvin temp. Basically i will find the one image to WB off of than copy that setting select all than apply to everything. Start going through the images and process as i go than if I hit a series that changes i will find another WB image copy , select all and copy to everything. I do this through the whole shooting session and make the quick global changes as i go...
    Guy, this is basically what I've doing, but it just isn't a process that I like until the WB is at least within a couple of hundred K. It's just a nit pick on my part, but looking at 200 ice-blue images after a day of shooting outdoors is just a buzz-kill for me. Now I'll select all and nudge them to 5200 or 5500 or so, scan through them, drink some wine or a little Belvedere and then do as you do (and I have been) by working down the line of applying what can be carried to each image.

    I agree, that the system does work nicely for quick global adjustments, but I just needed to get past that first WB bump. Now that that's cleared up I'm a happy camper.

  38. #38
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Now I'm getting the point/One More Question!

    I would agree that for most outdoor images, somewhere between 5000 - 5500 seems about right.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •