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Thread: Joey Lawrence...

  1. #51
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by GMB View Post


    The most important piece of equipment of Nick Brandt is probaly patience and a love for the anymals. You can direct human models, but try that with wild elephants or lions.

    BTW, I have print of him hanging in our dining room (from a linoness, not an elephant) and it is extremely powerful.
    I distinctly do not like the first three elephant photos above. The reason is the signs of elephants having been killed. Nowadays I believe it is illegal to kill elephants, but it is still made today over the tusks and apparent made very brutal to the elephants. Now of course I do not know the story to go with those photos... though it feels sad viewing the picture above with the family standing paying grace to the cranium... Sure that speak too... but... in a negative way.

    Photography is about the subjects and Joey L's photos speak along with his story. The videos reinforces his images in that he portrayed the subjects in a truthful and dignified way. I am not sure why you gents get hung up on his personal work. He does same in his commercial works, as per his videos...

    It is funny, last year I posted of an iPhone/iPad app of Peter Lik over on LuLa and people jumped in even worse than above posts to point out "technical shortcomings" of his images. I assume none who did will ever make the $ he has made on his photography, far less get the string of awards he has received...

    I guess it is in human nature when someone stands out as producing something good, to complain and whine... but hands on heart, how are your own photos???

    I am very impressed by the work of Joey L. Peter Lik is a different photography, but he too have very strong artistic merits and is in my view the top notch landscape photographer of our current times.

    It is in the image, not the gear.

    (The gear is mere personal choice of tools to obtain the image)


    B.t.w. Joey is on Vimeo as well - http://vimeo.com/24029684


    Best regards,
    Anders
    Last edited by Anders_HK; 15th October 2012 at 14:24.

  2. #52
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post

    I guess it is in human nature when someone stands out as producing something good, to complain and whine... but hands on heart, how are your own photos???

    I am very impressed by the work of Joey L. Peter Lik is a different photography, but he too have very strong artistic merits and is in my view the top notch landscape photographer of our current times.

    It is in the image, not the gear.

    (The gear is mere personal choice of tools to obtain the image)


    B.t.w. Joey is on Vimeo as well - Digital Still Photography Portfolio on Vimeo


    Best regards,
    Anders
    I would say if you do not what the ture art photo is, you had better find out another job or hobby, because you do not know where your photo is going towards.

    That is it.

  3. #53
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Nick Brandt uses a handheld Pentax lens, that can be tilted and shifted for perspective control...I think. Both Joey L. and Nick Brandt use innovative techniques that are unique to each as artists, and i'm grateful for their contribution to photography.
    I am grateful also.

    The "derivative" comment was rhetorical in context to the discussion of technique verses content ... where I said "it could be seen as" in answer to the poster's assertion that just getting to an exotic location and applying known photographic techniques doesn't equate to talent.

    In both cases, the use of lighting or the 6X7 film camera with PC lens, is an integral part of the artists application of talent. There is nothing new in terms of subject matter from either of these photographers ... it is HOW they decided to do it that defines the sensitivity to the subject.

    -Marc

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    There are two main reasons that Artists (the real ones) usually criticize photographers. The first is that most photographers tend to dwell on gear/process and are "mechanical." The second is that they dwell on subject/content and are "material." JL is a hack photographer because he is mechanical and material. Go back and read the posts in favor of JL. Do you notice a pattern? The defensive comments are related to the mechanical or the material. There isn't any serious talk of the abstract formal elements of art, but that should come as no surprise since JL's work doesn't contain many of them anyway.

    Visual illiterates have difficulty defending their own positions by drawing upon a knowledge of the arts. Instead, they must resort to cheap tactics like armchair psychoanalysis to accuse detractors of being jealous etc, or launch into slack-jawed rants as a barbaric attempt to intimidate and bully opposition. They do this is because they are ignorant, process-oriented and content-obsessed hacks. Birds of a feather flock together. In other words, hacks admire fellow hacks. It should come as no surprise if commercial photographers, like JL, are able to build a large audience of admirers from a crowd of people that are just like him.
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  5. #55
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    There are two main reasons that Artists (the real ones) usually criticize photographers. The first is that most photographers tend to dwell on gear/process and are "mechanical." The second is that they dwell on subject/content and are "material." JL is a hack photographer because he is mechanical and material. Go back and read the posts in favor of JL. Do you notice a pattern? The defensive comments are related to the mechanical or the material. There isn't any serious talk of the abstract formal elements of art, but that should come as no surprise since JL's work doesn't contain many of them anyway.

    Visual illiterates have difficulty defending their own positions by drawing upon a knowledge of the arts. Instead, they must resort to cheap tactics like armchair psychoanalysis to accuse detractors of being jealous etc, or launch into slack-jawed rants as a barbaric attempt to intimidate and bully opposition. They do this is because they are ignorant, process-oriented and content-obsessed hacks. Birds of a feather flock together. In other words, hacks admire fellow hacks. It should come as no surprise if commercial photographers, like JL, are able to build a large audience of admirers from a crowd of people that are just like him.
    And then there are hackneyed writers that heavy handedly insult people's intelligence by criticizing the critique using the exact same methodology they are criticizing.

    Not one respondent other than you lays claim to this being high Art or the lack of. It is simply a photograph of something that may or may not interest someone, or appear attractive to the eye, or not. A representation of something presented as a ... photograph. Besides, what constitutes formal abstract elements of Art are hardly agreed upon in the high art circles, let alone on some little photo forum.

    I seriously doubt Joey L's agenda includes being shown at MOMA, and I'd also seriously doubt anyone would expect it either.

    It is what it is, and to critique it as if it was supposed to be something else is less than ingenious and somewhat sad.

    While I would agree that the mechanical and process oriented is vividly apparent on this and many other internet photo forums, it is simply the nature of the beast ... a place where those that do not know come to learn, or those that know come to teach the mechanical and process oriented aspects of photography. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Even the greatest Painters and sculptors in history had to learn the craft of painting and proper methodology.

    There are other ways to explore the more artistic aspects, often solitary, or with a smaller, less public format for discussion and exchange of visual ideas.

    -Marc
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  6. #56
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Good art lay in the impression and intuitive response on a viewer, or not. Then who cares what school it belongs to or how it fits in with history of arts? Gear or material behind it has very little value, except for the one who use it; as his tool. A story can be used to reinforce a value behind art, or simply a picture... such as Joey L does in posting his videos and in taking the pictures down and bringing them back to Ethiopia. It is part of multimedia simply, is it not?

    And yes, I am of view that also art should adhere to not made with elements from slaughter of animals. I do find Joey L's images far more attracting and impressive in this case --- based on art.

    Quote Originally Posted by xinchenc View Post
    I would say if you do not what the ture art photo is, you had better find out another job or hobby, because you do not know where your photo is going towards.

    That is it.
    Xie xie. My professional training is as both an architect and structural engineer, thus I likewise have a the keen aesthetic eye as technical, same as is photography. We can share or not share view, with respect.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    What puzzles me with this photographer and many of his travelling colleagues is that, in spite of travelling for days and weeks to places that are hard to reach, he doesn't aim to capture the story behind the people in his photos. The results are visually pleasing and technically well performed, but to me, they look like on location studio shots of people slightly removed from their life and routines.

    This is more of an observation that criticism, but I keep coming back to HCB, a photographer who managed to blend with the locals wherever he was, enabling him to tell a story in more or less every single photo. Joey Lawrence spends an enormous amount of time, money and effort producing visually pleasing but rather kitch photos of people living in a society different from that of the viewers.

    But if that is what sells...
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    I don't have the talent or expertise to produce such pictures, but having said that, they make me uneasy in as much as they come across as fashion shots disguised as something else. I keep on expecting to find a Swatch round someone's wrist or a can of Coke next to a spear.
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by micek View Post
    I don't have the talent or expertise to produce such pictures, but having said that, they make me uneasy in as much as they come across as fashion shots disguised as something else. I keep on expecting to find a Swatch round someone's wrist or a can of Coke next to a spear.
    Thats a good one ...

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    What puzzles me with this photographer and many of his travelling colleagues is that, in spite of travelling for days and weeks to places that are hard to reach, he doesn't aim to capture the story behind the people in his photos. The results are visually pleasing and technically well performed, but to me, they look like on location studio shots of people slightly removed from their life and routines.

    This is more of an observation that criticism, but I keep coming back to HCB, a photographer who managed to blend with the locals wherever he was, enabling him to tell a story in more or less every single photo. Joey Lawrence spends an enormous amount of time, money and effort producing visually pleasing but rather kitch photos of people living in a society different from that of the viewers.

    But if that is what sells...
    I wonder if the end game for this photographer is "what sells"?

    As I mentioned earlier, we don't know what the intent was, and especially whether this is something he'll explore deeper or if it is a short time exercise. Personally, I don't take Joey Ls images as being Art, but they could be seen as artistically done ... they are simply interesting photos to some and not to others.

    Photography as Art is more conceptually driven and does require some effort to understand if one is so inclined.

    Without emersion into intent and some involvement beyond the obvious surface aspects who would grasp the work of Andreas Gursky who's Rhein-II C print sold for a record $4,338,500? Or his 99 Cent II Diptychon? Or Jeff Wall, or the deceptive sensationalism of Cindy Sherman, or the appropriated photographs of Richard Prince who's stated intent was to reproduce cultural cliche' images he found unbelievable, and make them even more unbelievable ... and so on and so on. It is a different world.

    File:Rhein II.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    99 Cent II Diptychon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    HCB isn't in the same category ... but I do love his work and own some prints ...

    -Marc

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Who is HCB, any link ?

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    Who is HCB, any link ?
    Henry Cartier Bresson ... the Leica toting French photographer credited with the invention of "The Decisive Moment" style of candid photography.

    Henery Catier Brasson - Bing Images

    -Marc

    For many years I collected photos of famous artists done by famous photographers ... I have this signed print of Mattise in his studio by HCB

    Henery Catier Brasson - Bing Images

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...


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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    Who is HCB, any link ?
    Henri Cartier-Bresson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Well, i did shoot one person before outdoor near Burj Khalifa with one strobe only using my Hasselblad, i didn't use filters, and i got amazing results, it is not difficult to shoot with wider aperture on MF lenses if i can go up to 1/500-1/1600.
    You do realize that, whilst Hasselblad can x-sync at all shutter speeds, those shutter speeds only go as fast as 1/500 (V) and 1/800 (H), right? So where was it exactly that you pulled 1/1600 out from?

    --

    Aside: Strobist: Young Blood: A Chat with Photographer Joey Lawrence

    Also worth having a peek at, is this video/commercial Joey did feat. his dad - Coca-Cola, “The Perfectionist” | Joey L.

    That should lay any notions he comes from money to rest.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    What I find hilarious is that there are so many people in here saying what his work is and what it isn't ..and what it should be.

    Newsflash: he's not shooting for you, and his success in the industry doesn't rely entirely on your understanding. He has an aesthetic. He composes and lights and processes accordingly - because it's HIS vision.

    I'd expect this kind of bitchiness on dpreview - apparently it was wrong to hold all members of this forum to a higher standard.

    Ah well. There's always LuLa.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Sorry for not using Monsieur Cartier Bresson's full name, but it was late and I needed sleep. For some reason, this photo of Chinese waiting in front of a bank for an emergency payment by HCB (late forties if I remember correctly) was what first appeared in my mind



    when I saw this by Joey Lawrence



    Again; nothing wrong with Mr. Lawrence's photo from an esthetic point of view, but if you ask me what I would want to have on my wall, monetary value not considered, Cartier Bresson's photo wins with a huge margin.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by colorspace View Post
    What I find hilarious is that there are so many people in here saying what his work is and what it isn't ..and what it should be.

    Newsflash: he's not shooting for you, and his success in the industry doesn't rely entirely on your understanding. He has an aesthetic. He composes and lights and processes accordingly - because it's HIS vision.

    I'd expect this kind of bitchiness on dpreview - apparently it was wrong to hold all members of this forum to a higher standard.

    Ah well. There's always LuLa.
    I don't see any bitchiness at all here and I think you misunderstand the discussion, a discussion that is very interesting since it's about one of the fundamental sides of travel photography: Esthetics vs. reality. Discussing other photographers' images and how they are achieved is an excellent way of learning, and I for one have a lot to learn from Mr. Lawrence, even if I prefer a simpler approach most of the time (when I don't schlepp the GX680 around in the SE Asian countryside).

    A photographer publishing videos of himself and how he works on youtube can hardly expect his work to escape discussion and criticism. If that is not an invitation, I don't know what is. Criticism does not have to equal personal insults (although that seems to be the attitude at dpr), and most of us learn faster taking the verbal input seriously.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I don't see any bitchiness at all here and I think you misunderstand the discussion, a discussion that is very interesting since it's about one of the fundamental sides of travel photography: Esthetics vs. reality. Discussing other photographers' images and how they are achieved is an excellent way of learning, and I for one have a lot to learn from Mr. Lawrence, even if I prefer a simpler approach most of the time (when I don't schlepp the GX680 around in the SE Asian countryside).

    A photographer publishing videos of himself and how he works on youtube can hardly expect his work to escape discussion and criticism. If that is not an invitation, I don't know what is. Criticism does not have to equal personal insults (although that seems to be the attitude at dpr), and most of us learn faster taking the verbal input seriously.
    Did you ever consider it might be a generational thing?

    And uh.. "Discussing other photographers' images and how they are achieved is an excellent way of learning"

    More often than not, he posts BTS of the work he's doing/has done - or revisits it at a later date in one of the DVDs.

    "House of Anubis" Nickelodeon Shoot / Behind the Scenes photography Info | Joey L.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    How is this any different from a snapshot/where's the artistic merit? Right place right time - and very little else.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    I think there are two types of travel photographers. One type for whom the photos are about himself: his vision, his esthetic, his lighting technique. The subjects in the photos are just exotic live props. We learn nothing about their lives, about who they are. It is a bit like a commercial shoot in a remote place.

    For the other type of travel photographer the photos are about the subjects and the places in them. The vision of the photographer is subordinate to showing a slice of somone elses life (even if imperfectly), and the lighting and techniqes are used to that end, and not to produce plasing images.

    Personally, I find the first approach visually pleasing (and i won't deny the skills of those photographers), but ultimately boring. Opinions may vary, however
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by colorspace View Post
    Did you ever consider it might be a generational thing?
    It's a (de)generational thing.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by colorspace View Post
    How is this any different from a snapshot/where's the artistic merit? Right place right time - and very little else.
    Oh dear... is this the level we're at?

    As opposed to the photo by Mr. Lawrence (and indeed those of many other, if not most travel photographers), HCB's photo tells a story, and a dramatic one at that. You see it in the eye's of the people in the photo, and he captured those eyes, looking straight into the camera in their desperate state.

    Compared to this, the people in the photo that Mr. Lawrence took are little more than a decoration, cleverly arranged under a large tree and illuminated by one or more studio strobes. Is it skillfully done? Yes, by all means. Does it look nice? Absolutely. Does it tell anything about the life of those people? Nothing whatsoever except maybe that they use boats made from hollowed tree trunks.
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by colorspace View Post
    Did you ever consider it might be a generational thing?

    And uh.. "Discussing other photographers' images and how they are achieved is an excellent way of learning"

    More often than not, he posts BTS of the work he's doing/has done - or revisits it at a later date in one of the DVDs.

    "House of Anubis" Nickelodeon Shoot / Behind the Scenes photography Info | Joey L.
    If I need to post a BTS to explain the background of my photographs, I've failed grossly as a photographer.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    If I need to post a BTS to explain the background of my photographs, I've failed grossly as a photographer.
    Agreed! I can't think of better evidence pointing to the degeneration of photography than the popularity of the BTS video since it's entire purpose is to call attention solely to the mechanical process.

    Aren't photographers supposed to be behind the camera instead of in front of it? If a photographer is in front of the camera, is he even a photographer anymore? Or is he just playing the role of a photographer?

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    It sounds like some of these posts have an element of sour grapes to them: as in "I could do as well as that if I just had access, support, whatever."

    The one Lawrence photo I saw was beautiful. Of course, as we know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    It sounds like some of these posts have an element of sour grapes to them: as in "I could do as well as that if I just had access, support, whatever."

    The one Lawrence photo I saw was beautiful. Of course, as we know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    Oh, but I couldn't take the photos that he takes. I have neither the skill nor the inclination. And his photos will always be more beautiful than mine, no doubt about that.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    I have no problem with his talent--who is perfect anyway? I have no problem that he is traveling and taking photographs of people that inspire him. I believe we all grow with our experiences. I just think his results do not have a great deal of depth. How can you really understand a culture you don't bother to live in? How can you really understand the people when you don't spend time with them and I mean for more than a few days.

    Robert Cole did a book called Doing Documentary Work. He would send his students into poor rural areas and have them photograph the people there. He would then go back and interview those people. One person said that the students never wanted them to smile. He explained that they were happy people and enjoyed life regardless of their poverty.

    These photographs say more about the photographer than the subjects.
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    It's a sad world that we live in that we criticize fellow artists rather than supporting them. It's made worse that we create rules than define artistic boundaries, rather than respecting each persons art for what it is. Plagiarism is the only crime that calls to mind the negativity society frowns upon, not creating beautiful pictures! If you want to critique work, then so be it. So much babble about degenerating photography here, something that this thread does not warrant, and certainly not from Joey L's work.
    Last edited by pophoto; 16th October 2012 at 23:26.
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by colorspace View Post
    You do realize that, whilst Hasselblad can x-sync at all shutter speeds, those shutter speeds only go as fast as 1/500 (V) and 1/800 (H), right? So where was it exactly that you pulled 1/1600 out from?

    --

    Aside: Strobist: Young Blood: A Chat with Photographer Joey Lawrence

    Also worth having a peek at, is this video/commercial Joey did feat. his dad - Coca-Cola, “The Perfectionist” | Joey L.

    That should lay any notions he comes from money to rest.
    Well, i said 1/500-1/1600 i meant MF in general and not just Hasselblad, there are MF that are up to 1/400 also, and i heard that Phase One is going to or maybe they did go up to 1/4000 or higher, so i was talking in general as my last sentience, i know my Hassy can't go up higher than 1/800, and on those shots of the model i did i didn't go higher than 1/500 anyway even i can.
    Tareq

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    Agreed! I can't think of better evidence pointing to the degeneration of photography than the popularity of the BTS video since it's entire purpose is to call attention solely to the mechanical process.

    Aren't photographers supposed to be behind the camera instead of in front of it? If a photographer is in front of the camera, is he even a photographer anymore? Or is he just playing the role of a photographer?
    The thing about Joey is that he learned a lot of things on forums just like this one. Asking questions about things like ND filters, strobes, etc.

    The behind the scenes videos and detailed lighting info he posts online are to help others learn from his technique. He just wants to pass on what he has learned. Just like the people who helped him when he was getting started.

    The only problem I have with BTS videos is that most of them don't actually tell you anything about lighting, settings, etc. Most are just catchy music and shots of a person taking pictures of a model. More of an advertisement for the photographer than a helpful BTS video...

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Soon we will be talking about whether photography is art - AGAIN, for the billionth time :-)

    BTW, there is no greater photographer than Henri-Cartier Bresson.

    OK, may be Eugene W. Smith.

    :-)

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by homeiss View Post
    The thing about Joey is that he learned a lot of things on forums just like this one. Asking questions about things like ND filters, strobes, etc.

    The behind the scenes videos and detailed lighting info he posts online are to help others learn from his technique. He just wants to pass on what he has learned. Just like the people who helped him when he was getting started.

    The only problem I have with BTS videos is that most of them don't actually tell you anything about lighting, settings, etc. Most are just catchy music and shots of a person taking pictures of a model. More of an advertisement for the photographer than a helpful BTS video...
    I agree ... but not necessarily about the "most videos".

    The value of BTS videos entirely depends on the objective. This one here seems to be something of an adventure promotional video ... making a wider audience aware of the work, which is just the way it is in these times of web based information centered on U-Tube type vehicles.

    The Profoto Blog site is a treasure trove of specific demonstrations and various approaches using controlled lighting ... also frequently including lighting diagrams and specific lists of the Profoto gear used (it is a promo video after all).

    What one does with the mechanical or process information is an entirely different subject.

    The idea that photography has "degenerated" is a populist notion because of the proliferation technology has provided. Yet great icons of the photo world are still great icons without being diluted by the added flood of mediocrity.

    It may shock some to see Mary Ellen Mark ... who needs no defense as a photographic Artist, (one of my favorites), shown using strobes in a Profoto promotional video ... Obviously, her words are more important ... but it is inescapable that she has chosen a mechanical means and a process to get what she wants ... without the gear, or knowing how to apply it, that wouldn't have been possible.

    Mary Ellen Mark. The Icon. | Profoto

    -Marc

    BTW, here is another photographer's work I enjoy ... commercial work with horses that uses lighting to bring something new to the party in a specific category where most work was traditionally redundant.

    Animal Photography | Profoto Blog

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    There's nothing wrong with using any technology known to man to create a good photo and that obviously includes strobes. As kitch art goes, Joey Lawrence's photos are top class. Still, I think it's sad that there aren't more story tellers around among photographers, particularly among travel photographers. I get a feeling that in the current, noisy media picture, bold colours and visual beauty, backed up by technical perfection, is an easier sell than a story that shows various facets of life rather than a pleasant scene that doesn't exist in teal life.

  35. #85
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    It's a sad world that we live in that we criticize fellow artists rather than supporting them. It's made worse that we create rules than define artistic boundaries, rather than respecting each persons art for what it is. Plagiarism is the only crime that calls to mind the negativity society frowns upon, not creating beautiful pictures! If you want to critique work, then so be it. So much babble about degenerating photography here, something that this thread does not warrant, and certainly not from Joey L's work.
    As a fellow working Pro I have to agree with this. My mindset has always been to support other Pros and Hobbyists. Its one of the reasons this forum was formed by Jack and I . We are here to share , learn and teach. That is our backbone as forum owners and our personal views. I know I can speak for Jack on this but we need to remember there our guidelines that we follow in photography but there certainly are no rules either. With that Joey has a unique style that maybe you like or don't like but as any Pro will tell you one of our goals as a artist is to stand out in the crowd. Its also our survival.

    I would just like everyone to be careful here on a personal level. I never want to see us tear anyone apart as we need to remember we also survive on our reputations as working Pros. I have no issue discussing this young mans work in a objective way. Lets just stay along that path, not that we have not but i know how threads go south sometimes. Thanks
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    HCB = Henri, thanks



    The above is an interesting image. Yet, if it was shot today I believe we would argue that he missed composition at top and bottom. It comes across more like a snapshot like for a news article, rather than a piece of art per my own impression.

    I experience Joey L as very good and I feel I can learn from him. I feel he has done something unique new in his private works. Sure it may simply be going on travels and pretty much doing there what he does in NYC, including spending time in working to get to know the subjects. Yet I am not sure if someone prior have photographed people in remote areas with todays fashion/commercial techniques which makes his images stand out.

    There are different means and purposes of photographing people on remote travels. The view lay in the photographer and artist, and the way we travel and reach out to the subjects. Like he says on the Marc Silber show it is a collaboration between him and the subjects.

    I hope I have learnt some from him for my own travels. I simply find something very interesting in the characters of people living traditional lives, and that much fascinate me.

    Anders
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Just today stumbled over this
    Dana Gluckstein DIGNITY project | Hasselblad tv
    kind of BTS on Hasselblad TV. Very similar subjects, yet an entire different
    approach IMO. Judge for yourself which you'd like more, there is no right or
    wrong but i would agree that its a generation thing also.

    Thanks to the OP for sharing the links to Joey L. videos and images.

    Regards,
    Ralf

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    HCB = Henri, thanks



    The above is an interesting image. Yet, if it was shot today I believe we would argue that he missed composition at top and bottom. It comes across more like a snapshot like for a news article, rather than a piece of art per my own impression.

    ..
    Anders
    First of all, not that we are taking a poll, but I like Joey's stuff, and Guy is absolutely right, we can disagree on what is art, and what is artistry, but there is no need to bring it down to a personal level.

    Second, Anders, yes, HCB only shot "snapshots." But look at the lines form by the arms and hands. Look at the expressions. Look the the image large.

    He is a master of using composition and lines. Even just doing a Google image will tell much.

    But that's a side track from this thread. I would be happy to discuss further off line as HCB never used anything approaching medium format :-)

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by richardman View Post
    But look at the lines form by the arms and hands. Look at the expressions. Look the the image large.
    But that wasn't because of HCB, and that image is a terrible example of 'the decisive moment' ..simply because it wasn't. Had he taken that shot five minutes sooner or later (and we were none the wiser) no one would be holding it to any less acclaim.

    I feel as though the bulk of [the success of] his work comes largely from living in a different time in a different place.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    I will continue because I think there are some relevance here.

    One aspect of documentary photography is about finding that perfect moment and capture it so that it looks "effortless," and HCB did not just take one image. He takes lots of images per scene. And "decisive moment" does not mean peak action, but that when everything comes together.

    We can agree to disagree, nevertheless, I think there are lots to learn from HCB.

  41. #91
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Well I enjoyed Joey's work, albeit in the same vein as Edward Curtis's Native American imagery. No pretentions here - it is enjoyable art but not documentary capture of a disappearing culture as it really is. Kind of national Geographic glamour to my mind.

    HCB is a different category of artist and we can appreciate the freshness of his approach. However, the discussions of Brant I find problematic in so far as his images (that I've seen) seem staged. I fear he is guilty of being the Thomas Kincade of nature photography in my book.

    That Joey uses medium format gear and lights on location? More power to him So what?
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Photography is a craft, but it is also a language and as with any form of expression what you have to communicate is what confers value to your craft. HCB's photograph in this case leads us to see -not to look at- a fragment of humanity and its circumstances; the viewer is asked to engage with the shot's subject and the very imbalances in the composition that Anders has pointed out actually form part of the narrative. In Lawrence's case, his subjects are posed and lit very much in the manner an 18th century traveller would display artifacts brought back from distant regions. We are asked to have a look at this glass cabinet of a setting, and once our curiosity is satisfied, we'll move on to another display elsewhere, for there is little else to see or do here, except congratulate our host on his collection. The difference between the two pictures is essentially not one of craft -that's incidental- but of intent.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Behind the Scenes: Blog | Joey L.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    so we can pose models etc in the first world but as soon as we do it in a 3rd world country it is somehow wrong?
    www.williamophuis.com

    Hassy H4D-40.

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    Re: Joey Lawrence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Ophuis View Post
    so we can pose models etc in the first world but as soon as we do it in a 3rd world country it is somehow wrong?
    Many viewers are intuitively bothered by it because it goes symbolically against the formal structure in nature. All sense of order that we call composition in the arts is based on organic and inorganic forms.

    inorganic = symmetrical, static
    organic = asymmetrical, dynamic

    As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Joey L has a serious problem when it comes to form. The reason that a lot of viewers intuitively dislike his "posing" of subjects in the so-called 3rd world is because they appear to be organic forms forcibly turned into inorganic forms. Audiences generally have a high tolerance for static posing in fashion photography because of the symmetry present in the beauty of the models. On the other hand, the worn and weathered bodies of people that have lived hard lives in undeveloped lands tend to be depicted better when they are shown in dynamic spontaneous states like the decisive moment.
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