The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Joey Lawrence...

homeiss

New member
Agreed! I can't think of better evidence pointing to the degeneration of photography than the popularity of the BTS video since it's entire purpose is to call attention solely to the mechanical process.

Aren't photographers supposed to be behind the camera instead of in front of it? If a photographer is in front of the camera, is he even a photographer anymore? Or is he just playing the role of a photographer?
The thing about Joey is that he learned a lot of things on forums just like this one. Asking questions about things like ND filters, strobes, etc.

The behind the scenes videos and detailed lighting info he posts online are to help others learn from his technique. He just wants to pass on what he has learned. Just like the people who helped him when he was getting started.

The only problem I have with BTS videos is that most of them don't actually tell you anything about lighting, settings, etc. Most are just catchy music and shots of a person taking pictures of a model. More of an advertisement for the photographer than a helpful BTS video...
 

richardman

Well-known member
Soon we will be talking about whether photography is art - AGAIN, for the billionth time :)

BTW, there is no greater photographer than Henri-Cartier Bresson.

OK, may be Eugene W. Smith.

:)
 

fotografz

Well-known member
The thing about Joey is that he learned a lot of things on forums just like this one. Asking questions about things like ND filters, strobes, etc.

The behind the scenes videos and detailed lighting info he posts online are to help others learn from his technique. He just wants to pass on what he has learned. Just like the people who helped him when he was getting started.

The only problem I have with BTS videos is that most of them don't actually tell you anything about lighting, settings, etc. Most are just catchy music and shots of a person taking pictures of a model. More of an advertisement for the photographer than a helpful BTS video...
I agree ... but not necessarily about the "most videos".

The value of BTS videos entirely depends on the objective. This one here seems to be something of an adventure promotional video ... making a wider audience aware of the work, which is just the way it is in these times of web based information centered on U-Tube type vehicles.

The Profoto Blog site is a treasure trove of specific demonstrations and various approaches using controlled lighting ... also frequently including lighting diagrams and specific lists of the Profoto gear used (it is a promo video after all).

What one does with the mechanical or process information is an entirely different subject.

The idea that photography has "degenerated" is a populist notion because of the proliferation technology has provided. Yet great icons of the photo world are still great icons without being diluted by the added flood of mediocrity.

It may shock some to see Mary Ellen Mark ... who needs no defense as a photographic Artist, (one of my favorites), shown using strobes in a Profoto promotional video ... Obviously, her words are more important ... but it is inescapable that she has chosen a mechanical means and a process to get what she wants ... without the gear, or knowing how to apply it, that wouldn't have been possible.

Mary Ellen Mark. The Icon. | Profoto

-Marc

BTW, here is another photographer's work I enjoy ... commercial work with horses that uses lighting to bring something new to the party in a specific category where most work was traditionally redundant.

Animal Photography | Profoto Blog
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
There's nothing wrong with using any technology known to man to create a good photo and that obviously includes strobes. As kitch art goes, Joey Lawrence's photos are top class. Still, I think it's sad that there aren't more story tellers around among photographers, particularly among travel photographers. I get a feeling that in the current, noisy media picture, bold colours and visual beauty, backed up by technical perfection, is an easier sell than a story that shows various facets of life rather than a pleasant scene that doesn't exist in teal life.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
It's a sad world that we live in that we criticize fellow artists rather than supporting them. It's made worse that we create rules than define artistic boundaries, rather than respecting each persons art for what it is. Plagiarism is the only crime that calls to mind the negativity society frowns upon, not creating beautiful pictures! If you want to critique work, then so be it. So much babble about degenerating photography here, something that this thread does not warrant, and certainly not from Joey L's work.
As a fellow working Pro I have to agree with this. My mindset has always been to support other Pros and Hobbyists. Its one of the reasons this forum was formed by Jack and I . We are here to share , learn and teach. That is our backbone as forum owners and our personal views. I know I can speak for Jack on this but we need to remember there our guidelines that we follow in photography but there certainly are no rules either. With that Joey has a unique style that maybe you like or don't like but as any Pro will tell you one of our goals as a artist is to stand out in the crowd. Its also our survival.

I would just like everyone to be careful here on a personal level. I never want to see us tear anyone apart as we need to remember we also survive on our reputations as working Pros. I have no issue discussing this young mans work in a objective way. Lets just stay along that path, not that we have not but i know how threads go south sometimes. Thanks
 

Anders_HK

Member
HCB = Henri, thanks :)



The above is an interesting image. Yet, if it was shot today I believe we would argue that he missed composition at top and bottom. It comes across more like a snapshot like for a news article, rather than a piece of art per my own impression.

I experience Joey L as very good and I feel I can learn from him. I feel he has done something unique new in his private works. Sure it may simply be going on travels and pretty much doing there what he does in NYC, including spending time in working to get to know the subjects. Yet I am not sure if someone prior have photographed people in remote areas with todays fashion/commercial techniques which makes his images stand out.

There are different means and purposes of photographing people on remote travels. The view lay in the photographer and artist, and the way we travel and reach out to the subjects. Like he says on the Marc Silber show it is a collaboration between him and the subjects.

I hope I have learnt some from him for my own travels. I simply find something very interesting in the characters of people living traditional lives, and that much fascinate me.

Anders
 

rmueller

Well-known member
Just today stumbled over this
Dana Gluckstein DIGNITY project | Hasselblad tv
kind of BTS on Hasselblad TV. Very similar subjects, yet an entire different
approach IMO. Judge for yourself which you'd like more, there is no right or
wrong but i would agree that its a generation thing also.

Thanks to the OP for sharing the links to Joey L. videos and images.

Regards,
Ralf
 

richardman

Well-known member
HCB = Henri, thanks :)



The above is an interesting image. Yet, if it was shot today I believe we would argue that he missed composition at top and bottom. It comes across more like a snapshot like for a news article, rather than a piece of art per my own impression.

..
Anders
First of all, not that we are taking a poll, but I like Joey's stuff, and Guy is absolutely right, we can disagree on what is art, and what is artistry, but there is no need to bring it down to a personal level.

Second, Anders, yes, HCB only shot "snapshots." But look at the lines form by the arms and hands. Look at the expressions. Look the the image large.

He is a master of using composition and lines. Even just doing a Google image will tell much.

But that's a side track from this thread. I would be happy to discuss further off line as HCB never used anything approaching medium format :)
 
But look at the lines form by the arms and hands. Look at the expressions. Look the the image large.
But that wasn't because of HCB, and that image is a terrible example of 'the decisive moment' ..simply because it wasn't. Had he taken that shot five minutes sooner or later (and we were none the wiser) no one would be holding it to any less acclaim.

I feel as though the bulk of [the success of] his work comes largely from living in a different time in a different place.
 

richardman

Well-known member
I will continue because I think there are some relevance here.

One aspect of documentary photography is about finding that perfect moment and capture it so that it looks "effortless," and HCB did not just take one image. He takes lots of images per scene. And "decisive moment" does not mean peak action, but that when everything comes together.

We can agree to disagree, nevertheless, I think there are lots to learn from HCB.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Well I enjoyed Joey's work, albeit in the same vein as Edward Curtis's Native American imagery. No pretentions here - it is enjoyable art but not documentary capture of a disappearing culture as it really is. Kind of national Geographic glamour to my mind.

HCB is a different category of artist and we can appreciate the freshness of his approach. However, the discussions of Brant I find problematic in so far as his images (that I've seen) seem staged. I fear he is guilty of being the Thomas Kincade of nature photography in my book.

That Joey uses medium format gear and lights on location? More power to him :thumbs: So what?
 

micek

Member
Photography is a craft, but it is also a language and as with any form of expression what you have to communicate is what confers value to your craft. HCB's photograph in this case leads us to see -not to look at- a fragment of humanity and its circumstances; the viewer is asked to engage with the shot's subject and the very imbalances in the composition that Anders has pointed out actually form part of the narrative. In Lawrence's case, his subjects are posed and lit very much in the manner an 18th century traveller would display artifacts brought back from distant regions. We are asked to have a look at this glass cabinet of a setting, and once our curiosity is satisfied, we'll move on to another display elsewhere, for there is little else to see or do here, except congratulate our host on his collection. The difference between the two pictures is essentially not one of craft -that's incidental- but of intent.
 

Mike M

New member
so we can pose models etc in the first world but as soon as we do it in a 3rd world country it is somehow wrong?
Many viewers are intuitively bothered by it because it goes symbolically against the formal structure in nature. All sense of order that we call composition in the arts is based on organic and inorganic forms.

inorganic = symmetrical, static
organic = asymmetrical, dynamic

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Joey L has a serious problem when it comes to form. The reason that a lot of viewers intuitively dislike his "posing" of subjects in the so-called 3rd world is because they appear to be organic forms forcibly turned into inorganic forms. Audiences generally have a high tolerance for static posing in fashion photography because of the symmetry present in the beauty of the models. On the other hand, the worn and weathered bodies of people that have lived hard lives in undeveloped lands tend to be depicted better when they are shown in dynamic spontaneous states like the decisive moment.
 
Top