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Thread: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

  1. #1
    juzokei
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    Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Hi to everyone in the forum,

    I m thinking of getting a digital back for my cameras but i need some opinions and feedbacks before i decide on one.

    Currently, I own both a mamiya afd and a hasselblad 503cw. But i make use of mostly hasselblad lenses on both system. (with adapter on the mamiya) With film i can use either system for different scenario. But getting the digital back will make me forgo one of them hence i need help in the choice.

    If i were to get a mount for;

    Mamiya AFD
    Advantage - i wont be having to use any extra sync cord attach to the lens. There is af confirmation, ttl metering.

    Disadvantage will be having the need to have another set of batteries to operate the system.

    Hasselblad 503cw
    Advantage - No extra set of batteries to operate the system (unless using the prism meter) The square framing.

    Disadvantage - having the extra sync cord to trigger the mfdb.

    1. Anyone using the p20 on the mamiya afd with hasselblad lenses care to share their experiences? If i m not wrong, there is a need to mask the screen as the back is a square sensor right? Is there any problem with the focusing when used with the mfdb?

    2. lastly, Will it be better for me to get the cfv and used it with the 503cw instead of getting the p20?

    Thank you for taking your time to read this and hopefully i can get some opinion from you guys and make my decision...

  2. #2
    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Personally I would explore moving forward with the Mamiya AF system , unless you absolutely need to use the waist level finder.

    With the 645AFD Mount system you will still be able to use all of your existing lenses (without a cable) , plus have the option to use your existing Mamiya lenses explore other lenses and also have AF functionality. You will have metering and AF confirmation as well.

    Yes you would have a mask that is supplied with the Phase One back to show you the capture area on the 645AFD.

    Please remember that you will need the HB adapter for the 645AFD system to use your Hasselblad lenses. Mamiya/Phase One Market one for under $700 and there are some third party ones available for under $200.

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
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  3. #3
    juzokei
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Personally I would explore moving forward with the Mamiya AF system , unless you absolutely need to use the waist level finder.

    With the 645AFD Mount system you will still be able to use all of your existing lenses (without a cable) , plus have the option to use your existing Mamiya lenses explore other lenses and also have AF functionality. You will have metering and AF confirmation as well.

    Yes you would have a mask that is supplied with the Phase One back to show you the capture area on the 645AFD.

    Please remember that you will need the HB adapter for the 645AFD system to use your Hasselblad lenses. Mamiya/Phase One Market one for under $700 and there are some third party ones available for under $200.

    Lance
    Hi Lance,

    Thank you for the prompt reply. I just went down to my local distributor and thats the same reply from them... heheheh.

    But i m still having some feelings for the 503cw as it is so much smaller to handle as compare to the afd.

    Is there something else i m going to miss if i were to get the afd mount instead of the V mount?

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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Please remember that you will need the HB adapter for the 645AFD system to use your Hasselblad lenses. Mamiya/Phase One Market one for under $700 and there are some third party ones available for under $200.

    Lance
    Lance would you have a link to where I can buy a 3rd party adapter? Thanks.

  5. #5
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by juzokei View Post
    But i m still having some feelings for the 503cw as it is so much smaller to handle as compare to the afd.

    Is there something else i m going to miss if i were to get the afd mount instead of the V mount?
    Things you might be missing:

    1/500 flash sync
    Waist-level and 45 finders
    If you're going in the future with a rectangular chip you don't need to rotate the camera to change from vertical to horizontal, just the back.
    No firmware updates that require sending the camera in
    No (or less) shutter lag
    V-mount adapters for other cameras (4X5, RB, RZ, 680) are generally easier to find 2nd hand if this is ever going to bother you.

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  6. #6
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    You would probably be best off with a Sinar back, with an adapter for the Mamiya and an adapter for the Hasselblad, so you can use the same back on both systems. If you are happy with a 16MP 36x36mm sensor then you should be even happier with a 22MP 48x36mm sensor Look at the older eMotion22 (refurbished) or perhaps a new eMotion54 (6K new).

  7. #7
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    You would probably be best off with a Sinar back, with an adapter for the Mamiya and an adapter for the Hasselblad, so you can use the same back on both systems. If you are happy with a 16MP 36x36mm sensor then you should be even happier with a 22MP 48x36mm sensor Look at the older eMotion22 (refurbished) or perhaps a new eMotion54 (€6K new).

  8. #8
    juzokei
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    You would probably be best off with a Sinar back, with an adapter for the Mamiya and an adapter for the Hasselblad, so you can use the same back on both systems. If you are happy with a 16MP 36x36mm sensor then you should be even happier with a 22MP 48x36mm sensor Look at the older eMotion22 (refurbished) or perhaps a new eMotion54 (6K new).

    Hi Fotoz,

    thanks for your recommendation but in my location, i m not very comfortable with the sinar distributor as i have deal with them quite a number of time. Plus they dont offer any refurbished set.

  9. #9
    juzokei
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Things you might be missing:

    1/500 flash sync
    Waist-level and 45 finders
    If you're going in the future with a rectangular chip you don't need to rotate the camera to change from vertical to horizontal, just the back.
    No firmware updates that require sending the camera in
    No (or less) shutter lag
    V-mount adapters for other cameras (4X5, RB, RZ, 680) are generally easier to find 2nd hand if this is ever going to bother you.

    Yair
    Hi Yair,

    yes i will definately miss the waist level finder and the compactness of the 503cw compare to the mamiya. yes, most of what you say bother me a bit.. I have question to ask how does the mamiya 645 lenses compare in terms of quality to the v zeiss??? as i dont own any of them so i cant compare.

    the local distributor told me that there might be some new lenses coming out for p1 and the upgrade path is brighter if i were to choose mamiya instead of hasselblad v.

    Thank you all for the replies

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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by juzokei View Post
    Hi Fotoz,

    thanks for your recommendation but in my location, i m not very comfortable with the sinar distributor as i have deal with them quite a number of time. Plus they dont offer any refurbished set.
    Hello, which part of the world are you in?
    Carsten - Website

  11. #11
    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Goh View Post
    Lance would you have a link to where I can buy a 3rd party adapter? Thanks.
    Here is one that we have purchased. The build quality is no where as nice as the Mamiya/Phase version. I have also heard that some of the third party ones you cannot achieve infinity focus, but for $89.95 it is worth a try.
    http://www.fotodiox.com/shop/product...roducts_id=695

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Thanks Lance.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    I have one and mine works okay.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by juzokei View Post
    Hi Fotoz,

    thanks for your recommendation but in my location, i m not very comfortable with the sinar distributor as i have deal with them quite a number of time.
    I find the importance placed on the local dealer HIGHLY over-rated. When I got my Sinar back, I emailed Thierry once asking about a menu I couldn't find in Captureshop and he answered quickly. I could just as well have posted the question on the forum and not needed the dealer at all. Does anyone really spend hours holding hands with a dealer, being shown the on button and the simple menus? I doubt it. Just buy a back and use it.

  15. #15
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Your opinion but i find major fault in that thought. Just sent my body in for firmware if i did it myself it would have taken a week , through my dealer and his relationship with Phase it was done the same day it arrived and shipped out hours later overnight. Sorry i do not buy that opinion for a second. My back goes down or something happens i have something the next day, I need to buy something i was the first to get a 150 mm 2.8 D. If no dealer I would have waited a month afterward because i did get a call than from a retail shop that they finally got one in. Sorry i want to deal with folks that have pull to get me what i want and get things done when I want it . I been down this road many years with many manufactures and I want support and service and if i can't get it than I will not buy that product.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    I'm also looking for a refurbished/used eMotion22 or 54LV, but no luck so far.

    Kumar

  17. #17
    juzokei
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    I find the importance placed on the local dealer HIGHLY over-rated. When I got my Sinar back, I emailed Thierry once asking about a menu I couldn't find in Captureshop and he answered quickly. I could just as well have posted the question on the forum and not needed the dealer at all. Does anyone really spend hours holding hands with a dealer, being shown the on button and the simple menus? I doubt it. Just buy a back and use it.
    i understand what you mean. but its the after sales service such as repairs and getting other items. they take their time and dont update you when your items is available for collection.

  18. #18
    juzokei
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Your opinion but i find major fault in that thought. Just sent my body in for firmware if i did it myself it would have taken a week , through my dealer and his relationship with Phase it was done the same day it arrived and shipped out hours later overnight. Sorry i do not buy that opinion for a second. My back goes down or something happens i have something the next day, I need to buy something i was the first to get a 150 mm 2.8 D. If no dealer I would have waited a month afterward because i did get a call than from a retail shop that they finally got one in. Sorry i want to deal with folks that have pull to get me what i want and get things done when I want it . I been down this road many years with many manufactures and I want support and service and if i can't get it than I will not buy that product.
    agreed, the support and service is important when the product fails you and you need it to get it done.

  19. #19
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Or you want to just try something out before you make a large purchase. I like my hand held. I just know i have backup and worst case i can rent something special or different.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  20. #20
    juzokei
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Or you want to just try something out before you make a large purchase. I like my hand held. I just know i have backup and worst case i can rent something special or different.
    i m just left to decide the mount. By the way, guy are you using a mamiya system with hasselblad v lens on it too?

  21. #21
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Mamiya system with a Phase P25 Plus back. Now you can use Hassy V lenses with either the adapter Phase sells or there are the knock offs that mine worked fine. I used a Hassy 40mm and the 120 macro and they both worked nice on it in stop down mode of course. But i sold them awhile back the Hassy lenses. The nice thing here is i can use either glass with the Mamiya body but you will be shooting square so depends on what you like to view through. The older Hassy bodies where always tough to see through . I actually used Brightscreens on them when I shot the V system. Also for short folks like me WL finders just don't work as well since it was always a challenge to get above the camera at eye level height. I always felt I was shooting up at things with it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  22. #22
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by juzokei View Post
    Hi Yair,

    yes i will definately miss the waist level finder and the compactness of the 503cw compare to the mamiya. yes, most of what you say bother me a bit.. I have question to ask how does the mamiya 645 lenses compare in terms of quality to the v zeiss??? as i dont own any of them so i cant compare.

    the local distributor told me that there might be some new lenses coming out for p1 and the upgrade path is brighter if i were to choose mamiya instead of hasselblad v.

    Thank you all for the replies
    Regarding the lenses that's a tough call but in general I would say that the 9 micron pixels in the P20 do not present a big challenge to neither the Mamiya lenses nor the Zeiss ones.

    There are differences in contrast and the way OOF areas look due to the central shutter in the Zeiss lenses.

    Also the sensor, being 37X37mm will only use the center part of the lens so less chances for edge sharpness issues.

    In any case the Zeiss lenses should be from the late CFi or CFE generations as they have the better coating that is more suitable for digital work.

    The new Mamiya "D" lenses are very good indeed and I know of 2-3 new lenses that are in the pipe

    As regards future upgrade I cannot comment, we (Leaf) do not have any preference between these two systems when it comes to upgrades.

    Obviously the Mamiya is still "alive" so there is better chance for future improvements. This can be a plus but not necessarily (with the 503CW you know what you're getting into and what to expect exactly)

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Hi Yair

    Just a curiosity question. Why would the shutter have anything to do with image quality (or lack of it?).

    My Hasselblad system is, of course, a central shutter system whether using the Zeiss V lenses or the newer HCD ones. The two lens systems have a different look and feel but I felt that was due to how Zeiss produce lenses vs the Fujiblads. (To be frank I much prefer the look of the Zeiss lenses but the AF and DAC corrections make the HCD's a more attractive alternative.)

    Being new to MF, I am always open to thoughts about the best way to get great images. But this is the first time I have heard that the choice of shutters has a great impact on IQ

    Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer

    Woody

  24. #24
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Hi Yair

    Just a curiosity question. Why would the shutter have anything to do with image quality (or lack of it?).

    My Hasselblad system is, of course, a central shutter system whether using the Zeiss V lenses or the newer HCD ones. The two lens systems have a different look and feel but I felt that was due to how Zeiss produce lenses vs the Fujiblads. (To be frank I much prefer the look of the Zeiss lenses but the AF and DAC corrections make the HCD's a more attractive alternative.)

    Being new to MF, I am always open to thoughts about the best way to get great images. But this is the first time I have heard that the choice of shutters has a great impact on IQ

    Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer

    Woody
    Hello Woody,

    This may have been my poor English but what I meant was that there is a difference in the look due the a different shutter design (among other things) I didn't say which one was superior.

    The blades in the Zeiss lenses have a different shape to their edges (bigger radius) compared to the Mamiya as they are designed for a larger barrel/ image area, this affects the way OOF areas and bokeh look.

    Also the shutter sits quite close to the bayonet (and to the image plane) for mechanical reasons whereas in the mamiya the iris is closer to the front of the lens, which also contributes to a different look.

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  25. #25
    juzokei
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Regarding the lenses that's a tough call but in general I would say that the 9 micron pixels in the P20 do not present a big challenge to neither the Mamiya lenses nor the Zeiss ones.

    There are differences in contrast and the way OOF areas look due to the central shutter in the Zeiss lenses.

    Also the sensor, being 37X37mm will only use the center part of the lens so less chances for edge sharpness issues.

    In any case the Zeiss lenses should be from the late CFi or CFE generations as they have the better coating that is more suitable for digital work.

    The new Mamiya "D" lenses are very good indeed and I know of 2-3 new lenses that are in the pipe

    As regards future upgrade I cannot comment, we (Leaf) do not have any preference between these two systems when it comes to upgrades.

    Obviously the Mamiya is still "alive" so there is better chance for future improvements. This can be a plus but not necessarily (with the 503CW you know what you're getting into and what to expect exactly)

    Yair
    Hi Yair,

    Thank you for your information. I will be making my decision soon. Seems like a lot of ppl are going towards mamiya now...

  26. #26
    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    There is a great deal on a P20+/AfdII bundle in the ForSale section:
    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4109
    by Justin Waldinger, a customer of ours who is looking to upgrade to a larger size sensor.
    It may be of interest to you. I know he has captured some amazing images with the camera. Here is a link to his gallery and one of the images that he too with it when he first got it.
    http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/45999...00679589_bdMwf

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

  27. #27
    edwinb
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Hello, which part of the world are you in?
    For Sure not UK as we offer refurbished equipment and 1st class support



    Edwin

  28. #28
    juzokei
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by edwinb View Post
    For Sure not UK as we offer refurbished equipment and 1st class support



    Edwin
    hi edwin,

    yes i m not residing in europe but in asia and it is quite limited in mfdb.

  29. #29
    juzokei
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    There is a great deal on a P20+/AfdII bundle in the ForSale section:
    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4109
    by Justin Waldinger, a customer of ours who is looking to upgrade to a larger size sensor.
    It may be of interest to you. I know he has captured some amazing images with the camera. Here is a link to his gallery and one of the images that he too with it when he first got it.
    http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/45999...00679589_bdMwf

    Lance
    Hi lance,

    Thanks for the link! I have finally decided to go the mamiya mount. Thank you so much for all the advise and information.

  30. #30
    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Which mount for Phaseone P20 mfdb? a lot of question to be answered...

    Quote Originally Posted by juzokei View Post
    Hi lance,

    Thanks for the link! I have finally decided to go the mamiya mount. Thank you so much for all the advise and information.
    That is great. Good luck and can't wait for you to share some images up on the forum.

    Let me know if there is anything else you have questions on.

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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