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Thread: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

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    Member Aryan Aqajani's Avatar
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    Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Hi guys,

    I was trying to shoot a long exposure with my DM22 back with HX-701 on RZ67 Pro IID! Obviously, I chose Mamiya RZ67 Pro IID from the menu on the back! I set the shutter on B and chose T on the lens as I always do when I shoot film! After 15 second, I pushed T to N mode! However, it did not work! No picture! I mean I could trigger the shutter but nothing happened to the back! I then set the shutter on 8 second and it worked!

    Have any of you experienced this before!?

    Do I need a sync cable? How can I do a long exposure on B mode!?
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Maybe the back is not up to long exposure, the work will be from the back maybe not the body, i may be wrong, but aren't each digital back has its own min-max shutter speed regardless of which body you put it on?
    Tareq

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    No! The Max exposure on DM22 (Leaf Aptus-II 5) is 30s so should be no problem with 15s exposure as I have already done 25s exposure with the same back on 645 AFD III body. I just don't know how it works on RZ!
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    No! The Max exposure on DM22 (Leaf Aptus-II 5) is 30s so should be no problem with 15s exposure as I have already done 25s exposure with the same back on 645 AFD III body. I just don't know how it works on RZ!
    I thought you were talking about long exposure longer than 60sec or 1min, but if you mean that you can't go up to 30s or say the minimum shutter speed or max longer exposure cn be done with DM22 then you have to check the settings on your back for compatibility, did you try both the B and T individually?

    Do you have a cable release or that electronic one?

    Not sure if that sync cable could be the solution but give it a try to be sure where is the issue.

    I wish have a digital back to test my RZ, but it is non D version.

    Stay with film for long exposure
    Tareq

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    I am staying with film however, needed to find out how it works with a digital back! As I said, no problem when shooting on 8 seconds! But on B mode and T on the lens, nothing happens when I put T to N unlike shooting film!
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    I am staying with film however, needed to find out how it works with a digital back! As I said, no problem when shooting on 8 seconds! But on B mode and T on the lens, nothing happens when I put T to N unlike shooting film!
    Maybe you need different lens, one that is digital.

    If you find the solution let me know, thanks!!!
    Tareq

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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Aryan,

    I too shoot film with the RZ, and am also interested in MFDB for this camera. I'm not familiar with the DM, but likely it's a setting in the menu that allows for the max. 30 sec. The lens might need a sync cable for the T and N mode.

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Aryan, I couldn't even get an exposure using the T/N switch. Basically when set for time, the back does nothing at all (IQ back), however using bulb and a shutter release cable in the mirror/shutter release (on the body not the lens) I could do a 25s exposure. I understand from the manual that this drains the battery on the body, but at least it worked.

    Useful exercise as I didn't think it would be different with a DB.

    Hopefully Yair will shed some more light as I think he has good experience with the RZ

    Paul

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    likely it's a setting in the menu that allows for the max. 30 sec. The lens might need a sync cable for the T and N mode.
    As far as I know, there is no setting in the digital back menu about exposure time setting! With Mamiya/Leaf backs, there is no need for a sync or wakeup cable when you use a HX-701 adapter on RZ67 Pro IID!

    Quote Originally Posted by wentbackward View Post
    Aryan, I couldn't even get an exposure using the T/N switch. Basically when set for time, the back does nothing at all (IQ back), however using bulb and a shutter release cable in the mirror/shutter release (on the body not the lens) I could do a 25s exposure. I understand from the manual that this drains the battery on the body, but at least it worked.
    Paul, I was thinking about the same thing last night before falling asleep I did not try to shoot in B mode yesterday! If that is the case meaning being able to shoot only in B mode with a release cable for 30s max, than it would be frustrating!

    Although my back does not go over 30s however, I have found a new technique for long exposures which is called exposure stacking! Don't know if you have heard about this but I'm going to give it go! If it really works, then I don't need to trade my back with a P25+ or P45+ later down the track as I love this back! It is a bit more time-consuming but if the result is good, it may worth going this far! Tutorials | Long Exposures with no Filters | Verdant Vista | Photography by Neil Farquharson
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Ooh exposure stacking sounds interesting. I'm going to have a read up on it for a bit now. I was playing with an X Pro 1 on holiday and even 30s is not really enough for those streaky clouds.

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Surely 30s is not enough however, maybe 8 images with 15s exposure each with 5s gap between them would do! I think I'm better off to stay with film!
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    To be honest you get the benefit of reciprocity failure, no battery usage and nothing to do in post, not touching the camera over that period, so much less risk of a wasted effort. In fact with film you take a good book and spend a couple of hours in a beautiful place only to come back with fantastic images, sounds like my kind of hobby. Film seems to win hands down on this one. Digital just seems fiddly, but in a pinch this technique could do it I think. I just had a play around with some 7s exposures running my daughters 'princess wig' past an object, it seems to work.

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Yes, I hear you loud! The good thing with Fuji Acros 100 is that there is no need to consider reciprocity failure! That is why this my to go film stock for long exposure and shooting anything at ISO 100 in B&W! The only thing I'd like to try is developing it in XTOL rather than Rodinal although I like the tone and sharpness coming from Rodinal! I was just trying to see if this technique work or not for those time when I have run out of film on the field!

    Anyway, I need to know how to use longer exposure than 30s with RZ in T mode with a back like P25+ or P45+ (although I don't have them) which they can pass 30min exposure! There must be a way but it seems no one wants to help out here!!!
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    Anyway, I need to know how to use longer exposure than 30s with RZ in T mode with a back like P25+ or P45+ (although I don't have them) which they can pass 30min exposure! There must be a way but it seems no one wants to help out here!!!
    I'd drop a mail to Yair of MamiyaLeaf directly (yaya on here) and ask him for advice, he seems to know about the RZ setup, but doesn't seem to be around at the moment.

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Oh, that would be awesome, thank you Paul
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Aryan,

    Try setting the body to multi-exposure mode-"M" on the right side, and a cable release on the body shutter, but you'll have to "lock" the cable release or hold it for the duration. When the cable release is set to the lens, you still need to push T/N to complete the exposure.

    P.S. film is great for LE, no hot pixels or dark frame to subtract.

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Johnny, with RZ67 Pro IID + HX-701, the body should be set to M regardless of shooting at any shutter speeds! I have no problem shooting at M, using cable release and holding it say for 30s and then let it go to complete the exposure! What I am trying to understand is if there is any other way to go beyond 30s say with a Phase 25+ back without keep pressing the release cable for 2min and above!? Like the way I shoot long exposures more than 30s with a film back (set T mode, then push it back to N after say 2min)!

    I am in love with film but it does not hurt to know how to do this on a digital back as well in case I am in the field with no more film rolls left!
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Why is it so important to inform us in every post that you are in love with film? We are not slow, we got it first time around.

    No there is no way to stack exposures on rz within same digital frame with old-ish backs. It can not be done by design. Afaik.

    To get to long exposures (past 8s) you just use B mode, no need to throw t-n. same as with film. Press release. Hold. Release as needed. Done.

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by SergeiR View Post
    Why is it so important to inform us in every post that you are in love with film?
    Don't know what to say!

    Quote Originally Posted by SergeiR View Post
    No there is no way to stack exposures on rz within same digital frame with old-ish backs. It can not be done by design. Afaik.
    Just a week ago, I did stack two separate exposures on RZ, (16s and 18s) with almost 6s gap between them. Then made two layers in photoshop and reduced the transparency and it worked! Here is the result!


    So, one can do stack exposure with whatever back they have! In my case, since my DM22 back goes up to 30s, then I need to consider that!


    Quote Originally Posted by SergeiR View Post
    To get to long exposures (past 8s) you just use B mode, no need to throw t-n. same as with film. Press release. Hold. Release as needed. Done.
    When I shoot long exposures more than 1min on film (sorry for repeating the word, "film" here again), I use T mode and then push it back to N to stop exposure! First of all, in the method you suggested, it just drains the battery! Second, just have one of those old classic release cable with no locking option! And last, I was just curious to know if the same Time/Normal setting works with a digital back or not! I think I should forget about it!
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    Don't know what to say!



    Just a week ago, I did stack two separate exposures on RZ, (16s and 18s) with almost 6s gap between them. Then made two layers in photoshop and reduced the transparency and it worked! Here is the result!


    So, one can do stack exposure with whatever back they have! In my case, since my DM22 back goes up to 30s, then I need to consider that!




    When I shoot long exposures more than 1min on film (sorry for repeating the word, "film" here again), I use T mode and then push it back to N to stop exposure! First of all, in the method you suggested, it just drains the battery! Second, just have one of those old classic release cable with no locking option! And last, I was just curious to know if the same Time/Normal setting works with a digital back or not! I think I should forget about it!
    Oh, You love film? Say it 100 times or say it on every post

    Well, i didn't shoot long exposure long long time ago, but when i did in the past it was only with digital [35mm and MF], never tried with film except with Holga 120WPC which needs long exposure or very slow shutter speed due to its aperture.

    In fact i like to use RZ more than my another film bodies, but i am always feeling it is better to use Hasselblad 500 series and that square format for long exposure, it is really very difficult when someone get 2 6x7 and 1 6x6 and 1 6x9 and more and then to choose which one to shoot with.
    Tareq

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Oh, You love film? Say it 100 times or say it on every post

    Well, i didn't shoot long exposure long long time ago, but when i did in the past it was only with digital [35mm and MF], never tried with film except with Holga 120WPC which needs long exposure or very slow shutter speed due to its aperture.

    In fact i like to use RZ more than my another film bodies, but i am always feeling it is better to use Hasselblad 500 series and that square format for long exposure, it is really very difficult when someone get 2 6x7 and 1 6x6 and 1 6x9 and more and then to choose which one to shoot with.
    Shooting film for long exposure!?

    I see you point about shooting 6x6 film for long exposure! Many people believe square format is the way to go for LE however, 6x7 is still my favorite format, at least I am doing one more thing different than the rest! Breaking away from the pack!!!
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    Shooting film for long exposure!?

    I see you point about shooting 6x6 film for long exposure! Many people believe square format is the way to go for LE however, 6x7 is still my favorite format, at least I am doing one more thing different than the rest! Breaking away from the pack!!!
    I also prefer 6x7 over 6x6 anyday, in fact the only thing that i like most with RZ over my Hassy is that format 6x7, but handling body is totally winner with Hassy, and because it is mechanical so i never worry about battery drainage, but i still have issue with Hasselblad 501CM focusing that making me hate to use it over RZ.

    In all cases, i don't care much which format to use or to shoot with whether it is LE or night or even people, i like to have that freedom of selection of gear to have.
    Tareq

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    In all cases, i don't care much which format to use or to shoot with whether it is LE or night or even people, i like to have that freedom of selection of gear to have.
    Fair enough!
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Aryan,

    Got it! I shoot strictly film with an RZ ProII, so I'm a little uninformed with digital application. Personally, I don't like using T/N mode because of the possibility of movement when touching the barrel. I do use MU mode and then lock the cable for LE, and when my exposure is within 30 seconds or so, I unlock and hold for duration, not ideal but it works for me.

    SergeiR, lighten up my friend, he was only commenting on my response. Go film!

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Aryan,

    have you tried shooting 30s exposures using the large format camera mode on your back? Maybe if you taped off the electronic contacts on the adapter plate and then simply use a wake up cable with the back it might work. I haven't tried this yet but please do so and tell us.

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Aryan,

    Got it! I shoot strictly film with an RZ ProII, so I'm a little uninformed with digital application. Personally, I don't like using T/N mode because of the possibility of movement when touching the barrel. I do use MU mode and then lock the cable for LE, and when my exposure is within 30 seconds or so, I unlock and hold for duration, not ideal but it works for me.

    SergeiR, lighten up my friend, he was only commenting on my response. Go film!
    I understand but to be honest, I had never had any problem with T/N mode so far so prefer to use that mode for any exposure more than 1 min!


    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKißler View Post
    Aryan,

    have you tried shooting 30s exposures using the large format camera mode on your back? Maybe if you taped off the electronic contacts on the adapter plate and then simply use a wake up cable with the back it might work. I haven't tried this yet but please do so and tell us.
    That's a good idea! However, don't have a sync cable for my back! I'll try to do that when I get a chance to go to my local Phase One dealer here in Melbourne!
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    I set my RB67+Aptus 22 to "T" mode and it will capture up to 30 seconds no problem. Since I'm using an RB67 I have to set the back to Large Format mode and use the "wake up" cable. This might also work for you on the RZ, like Max suggests. You can get a 2.5 mono to PC sync cord on ebay for cheap. Give it a shot.

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by homeiss View Post
    I set my RB67+Aptus 22 to "T" mode and it will capture up to 30 seconds no problem. Since I'm using an RB67 I have to set the back to Large Format mode and use the "wake up" cable. This might also work for you on the RZ, like Max suggests. You can get a 2.5 mono to PC sync cord on ebay for cheap. Give it a shot.
    Thank you Will give it a go for sure
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Hello again guys

    Today, I just noticed a new issue with my RZ and DM22 back! When I looked at the exif, he shutter only goes up to 1/350s with all my lenses, 50mm, 110mm and 180mm! Is it normal?
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Hi Aryan, I just posted on the other thread, I think the back determines the shutter speed via the sync rather than it being communicated, and even then I think it's a bit hit and miss. Definitely when you shoot a mirror up, it counts from when the mirror goes up not when the shutter opens (at least it does on my back!)
    - Paul

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Its normal. I'm assuming because its much easier to program, being the next half stop on the scale. Actual shutter speed should be 1/400.

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by wentbackward View Post
    Hi Aryan, I just posted on the other thread, I think the back determines the shutter speed via the sync rather than it being communicated, and even then I think it's a bit hit and miss. Definitely when you shoot a mirror up, it counts from when the mirror goes up not when the shutter opens (at least it does on my back!)
    - Paul
    Paul, thank you for that I don't use a sync cable as mine is D version so it is just the back and HX701 adapter! Also, have never used MUP function

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoRepse View Post
    Its normal. I'm assuming because its much easier to program, being the next half stop on the scale. Actual shutter speed should be 1/400.
    So, you mean what I see in EXIF data is just some random number and not the actual shutter speed? Do you get 1/350s as well when you shoot with your setup at 1/400s?

    By the way, saw your post on LuLa Strange RZ Pro II hotshoe issue

    I tested it with both ambient light and strobes, no difference, always 1/350s
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Theres two ways to use the RZ, using the sync cable or with the IID model via the electronic adapter plate. And using this plate you get accurate exif data, always. The exception is 1/400, which is recorded as 1/350. Why this is so I'm not sure, but if I were to guess it has to do with the fact that the RZ uses a half stop scale and 1/350 is the next step after 1/250. I'm assuming it would be a mess to program it as 1/400, as that fits under the third stop scale. In any case its only 1/6 of a stop difference, not a big deal. Using the RZ with a sync cable (and Leaf back, not sure about Phase) is a mess as it causes exposure problems at fast shutter speeds. This is partially detailed in the above linked thread.

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Aryan I'm sorry I missed this thread and I'm checking if there's a known issue there but I suggest that you contact Craig Robinson at Ted's in Melbourne so that he can log a support case for you

    BR

    Yair
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Aryan I'm sorry I missed this thread and I'm checking if there's a known issue there but I suggest that you contact Craig Robinson at Ted's in Melbourne so that he can log a support case for you

    BR

    Yair
    Thanks for the reply Yair So you are suggesting there is something wrong with the way shutter speed is registered in exif data? I must be 1/400s when I shoot at 1/400s? Or you meant the problem I had with shooting long exposure in T mode on RZ67 Pro IID? Sorry, a bit confused haha
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoRepse View Post
    Theres two ways to use the RZ, using the sync cable or with the IID model via the electronic adapter plate. And using this plate you get accurate exif data, always. The exception is 1/400, which is recorded as 1/350. Why this is so I'm not sure, but if I were to guess it has to do with the fact that the RZ uses a half stop scale and 1/350 is the next step after 1/250. I'm assuming it would be a mess to program it as 1/400, as that fits under the third stop scale. In any case its only 1/6 of a stop difference, not a big deal. Using the RZ with a sync cable (and Leaf back, not sure about Phase) is a mess as it causes exposure problems at fast shutter speeds. This is partially detailed in the above linked thread.
    If that is the case, it is all good then I am curious to know if other RZ users experience the same thing!?

    Let see what Yair think regarding this issue!
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    It's true, mine is a D and records 1/350th on a Phase back. I've never trusted the shutter speed, but perhaps I can!

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by wentbackward View Post
    It's true, mine is a D and records 1/350th on a Phase back. I've never trusted the shutter speed, but perhaps I can!
    Thanks for letting me know At least, I know I am not alone hehe
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    OK guys the RZIId at 1/400s records 1/350s. It's a protocol issue not a speed issue so you're shooting at 1/400!

    B mode works on the RZ-IId as long as the Leaf back has an updated communication board. If the serial number is lower than LI301xxx that means it is not 100% supported so you need to contact your local dealer and arrange for the update.

    If the serial number of your back is higher than the above one and it still doesn't work in B mode then there could be something else there. Again contact your dealer for a follow up

    T mode is not supported on the RZ-IId.

    Hope this helps

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Thanks Yair, its nice to have it confirmed!

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    Re: Help with RZ67 Pro IID + DM22 back

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    OK guys the RZIId at 1/400s records 1/350s. It's a protocol issue not a speed issue so you're shooting at 1/400!

    B mode works on the RZ-IId as long as the Leaf back has an updated communication board. If the serial number is lower than LI301xxx that means it is not 100% supported so you need to contact your local dealer and arrange for the update.

    If the serial number of your back is higher than the above one and it still doesn't work in B mode then there could be something else there. Again contact your dealer for a follow up

    T mode is not supported on the RZ-IId.

    Hope this helps

    Yair
    Yair, thank you so much for getting back to us, really appreciate it It is good to know that there is nothing wrong with the shutter so simply a protocol issue!

    Regarding the B mode, my back serial number is LI310xxx and confirm that it can shoot in B mode, no problem with that! I just wanted to know if T mod is supported with a digital back in order to save the battery! Again, thanks for letting us know it is not

    Cheers,
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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