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Thread: Is the new 27" iMac the replacement for the Mac Pro?

  1. #51
    Super Duper
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    Re: Is the new 27" iMac the replacement for the Mac Pro?

    I also update my 17inch MBP with a 512 Gig SSD and 8Gig and it runs fine.
    I also have an Eizo with calibration as external display, can see the difference but dont find it worlds apart.
    I dont like the idea to buy a computer integrated in a display.
    A MBP and a external display has the big advantage that I can also use the MBP as a mobile unit.
    Since I need a second unit I am undecided.
    What I want is a compact light MBP 13 inch with the resolution of a retina display but the processor power of the 15inch MB retina, but without glossy display and being able to replace the disc myself with a large SSD.

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    Re: Is the new 27" iMac the replacement for the Mac Pro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    What you are missing here is your not seeing your Prophoto color space it's out of the SRGB color gamut which is very small. It's a big difference and when processing I am far more accurate in my shadow areas and highlights. Frankly why you even bothering with Prophoto color space images if you can't see the whole gamut. Wide gamut you can see it and process to it.
    Nope. You can't display ProPhoto on any real world device as ProPhoto contains theoretical colors (for instance the highest saturated blue is Lab 0|90|-128 ... and L*0 by definition is black). The whole debate about color space comparisions is pretty misleading, IMO. A color profile is just a container ... the question is: which colors of a given photograph are actually utilized within this color space. I'd say for the vast majority of photos sRGB is sufficient. Only subjetcs containing really high saturated colors (for instance flowers in bright sunlight) may profit from a larger color space. Then again Capture One (the converter you are using) is limiting the utilized colors through the input profile of your camera anyway. And the camera input profiles in C1 are all much smaller than ProPhoto (fortunately!).
    When "godfrey" and "Shashin" are stating that their displays match their prints ... well, than this is not debateable.
    In my experience the gamut of a display is not that important (although I use a wide gamut monitor). However, high bit displays and hardwarecalibration can make a difference, IMO. And - most importantly - controlled, appropriate viewing conditions.

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    Re: Is the new 27" iMac the replacement for the Mac Pro?

    I also have no problems matching my prints (Cannon IPF 6300) with my display on a 15" MacBook Pro (late 2011 - High Res Matte). I use the Xrite ColorMunki for color management, and I'm very pleased with this. I have concluded that it's not worth it for me to invest in a Nec or Eizo, even though they are undoubtedly superior to the Apple displays, however Apple displays have improved a lot over the past year or so, so maybe not what Guy and Jack originally tested against.

    For what it is worth, here are recent measurements by Anandtech. These gamut numbers are in % of AdobeRGB 1998.

    Apple MacBook Pro with Retina Display: 67.3%
    Apple 15-inch MacBook Pro with High Res Matte (Early 2011): 74.7%
    Apple 13-inch Macbook Air (mid 2011): 45.4%

    AnandTech - The next-gen MacBook Pro with Retina Display Review

    Apple 27-inch LED Cinema Display: 83.2%
    Apple 27-inch Thunderbolt Display: 76.1%
    Apple 15-inch MacBook Pro (2010): 75.6%
    Apple 27-inch iMac (2011): 74.9%
    Apple 30-inch Cinema HD Display: 72.96%

    AnandTech - The Apple Thunderbolt Display Review

    Cheers, -Peter

  4. #54
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Is the new 27" iMac the replacement for the Mac Pro?

    About 2 or 3 years ago whenever I bought my NEC the difference was pretty large. I do have a Epson 7900 printer as well. BTW I never said not to buy the Apples displays. These wide gamuts are 10 bit and see 95 percent of the Adobe 1998 gamut on my digital back at that time i had the P40 plus I could see far deeper into the shadows on it and the tonality was much bigger so yes I did have the 50 k back well not quite but that was all I was pointing out. I would buy one again if it comes up. Just my preference on it. I certainly hope these new displays are better from Apple otherwise I think your cheating yourself , that is the way I felt back than. I felt I was kind of wasting all the money spent on the digital backs since I could not see what was truly there. Again if my wording was wrong on some of this than I am sorry but I was simply just pointing something out.

    I still think though maybe the laptop at this time waiting it out for a MP is not a bad idea. I know costly but it does work well and you do get the option of being mobile. To me it's pretty dang fast even with my IQ 160 files. It's a really tough call but I'm not in the camp of Apple actually producing a new MP. I tend to think its long gone but I hope so for others.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Is the new 27" iMac the replacement for the Mac Pro?

    Monitor gamut is a very real issue. Most basic and laptop monitors are essentially only as large as sRGB, while most wide gamut monitors cover close to Adobe RGB. Unfortunately, you cannot show these color differences easily on the web to somebody with only a narrow gamut monitor, so examples are pointless. Having these same folks print out an example for themselves is also pointless unless they have a recent generation wide-gamut printer. I edited on a Mac Cinema display up until I got the Epson 7900 printer --- it was my first printer with a wide enough color gamut that the need for a wider gamut monitor became immediately apparent; without it, I couldn't see many of the colors it could render. I could have made do with the older display and the "view proof" option, but editing higher colors in either CS or C1 (especially C1's color editor) was much easier on a wide gamut monitor. (Note that the 7800 before my 7900 also printed outside sRGB, and you could see the differences, but I felt I could edit using close enough using my smaller gamut monitor with the "view proof" profile option.) Most notable here in the x900 Epson for me as a landscape photographer were more saturated greens and deeper sky blue tones, and of course reds are affected as well. Is it absolutely necessary? No. But it certainly makes life easier.

    I respect that others opinions will vary, but the reality is it is real and we do show real examples of it on our printing workshops.

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Is the new 27" iMac the replacement for the Mac Pro?

    Thanks Jack you said what I was trying to convey all along.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Is the new 27" iMac the replacement for the Mac Pro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    You have all that color information on your display, now what? Will you see all that gamut in a glossy magazine? What about ink-jet prints. Will the finest printers recreate all that color space? If not, what's the point?
    Eduardo
    Yes it will.

    Both Epson and Canon Pro printers exceed the render on screen. (of wide gammut monitors). As for sRGB, They can print miles outside of it.

    Having put several normal sRGB, and wide gammut monitors side by side, I will never go back to doing editing on a SRGB screen. Far too much usefull information is going in the trash with narrow gammut monitors.

    Play with a copy of Chromix ColorThink sometime to see the differences, but the real proof is on screen and on the Print.


    Personally, I use NEC and EIZO. I spend a lot of money on cameras, I want to use as much of that data as possible !!.


    Regards

    Mark.

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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Is the new 27" iMac the replacement for the Mac Pro?

    There is more to a high end wide gamut monitor than just the color space, and some of those features may be more important. After all, no monitor can display all the colors of current printers, but then that's the purpose of color mangaement systems, to remap colors to allow different devices to appear similarly. Those that claim you can't manage colors you can't see just don't understand color management.People have been making great prints for a very long time, and an iMac can definitely be a decent tool.

    It is certainly easier and more consistent with a great monitor, but the iMac is pretty decent. To me the complete control of the black point/white point contrast as well as colors inside the monitor itself is the real strength of these systems and what allows them to provide better visual feedback to prints. I have a 30" ACD side by side to a NEC 301w, and to me that's were I see the biggest advantage when working with image files.
    wayne
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    Re: Is the new 27" iMac the replacement for the Mac Pro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    There is more to a high end wide gamut monitor than just the color space, and some of those features may be more important. After all, no monitor can display all the colors of current printers, but then that's the purpose of color mangaement systems, to remap colors to allow different devices to appear similarly. Those that claim you can't manage colors you can't see just don't understand color management.People have been making great prints for a very long time, and an iMac can definitely be a decent tool.
    Agree completly. You can certainly manage them. But it is easier (I feel) to be able to see as MUCH as possible !.

    As for features, Probably the next biggest (for me at least) is consistency accross the display. Even backlighting, even tone etc. Using a 30" display without that is shocking.

    Regards

    Mark

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