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Capture One 7 - It's doubled my MPixels!

I'm on OSX 10.7.4 and it's patchy stability-wise. Sometimes I can use it with no problem, other times, it majorly crashes the entire machine when I select several images. Why can't it just crash itself like every other app?? C1 is a bit of a prima donna if you ask me!

Anyway, I tried processing a few 1DsII, 1DsIII and 5DII files yesterday, with stunning results - noise control, sharpness and colours are all much improved.

I tried setting up a Catalog for reprocessing old images, but every time I import new images, it deletes the old ones. Anyone got any idea what I'm doing wrong?
 
OSX 10.8.2 here, C1v7 crashes occasionally. Never crashes the whole system though. I couldn't open my MediaPro lib with 70K images, it died badly. In all other respects it's F.A.B.
 

Dan Ortego

New member
I have LR4 and DxO-7 and I have used C1 in the past when it was included with my M8. Though I can’t say I’m proficient with any of them I can say that LR seems to be easier to use and navigate. It’s also much more supported on the web for learning and that’s important to me. Even so I decided to try this new version of C1v7 and all I can say is wow! The default NR compared with the other two is very impressive.

BTW: I'm using OS 10.8.2 on a 2009 MacPro Quad w/12gb of RAM with all three apps (C1/DxO/LR) running and so far I haven't crashed.
 
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dougpeterson

Workshop Member
I have LR4 and DxO-7 and I have used C1 in the past when it was included with my M8. Though I can’t say I’m proficient with any of them I can say that LR seems to be easier to use and navigate. It’s also much more supported on the web for learning and that’s important to me. Even so I decided to try this new version of C1v7 and all I can say is wow! The default NR compared with the other two is very impressive.

BTW: I'm using OS 10.8.2 on a 2009 MacPro Quad w/12gb of RAM with all three apps (C1/DxO/LR) running and so far I haven't crashed.
I absolutely agree that LR has more total resources for learning, but do you really need many resources or just a few good ones?
 

Dan Ortego

New member
Thanks Doug, I may very well sign-up for the Basic course, as I had no idea this was available. The more I play around with this thing' the more I like it. My A900 files are starting to look more like they came from a D800.
Regards,
 
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baxter

New member
I felt that it was very stable on two computers with 10.6.8. Then I started getting ever more frequent crashes to the point that I couldn't do anything before another one. This was exasperating. I trashed the preferences and am now in a period of relative stability.

Concur that there are some significant improvements. Especially shadow/highlight and am enjoying the new 'punch' in moderation - I reckon a small slap is all it needs! Am tempted to do support case requesting they replace numbers for punch with a scale giving worded descriptions ranging from tickle to seeing stars!
 

jagsiva

Active member
For the brief time I used v7 on my MBP Retina 13", it was quite stable. The MBR went back as it was just not performing as well as I had hoped, although the size of it is incredible . The 15" version is on its way. I have not used it much on my Mac Pro yet.

It maybe that v7 is a little more stable on 10.8 than 10.7, or at least appears that way looking at the comments here and my experience with it on the MBP which ships with 10.8. I could be wrong.

Now on my 5th major release of C1, I always found the layout and workflow very intuitive, and P1 support has been very good when I needed it. With Adobe, neither of these have been pleasant experiences. As functionality has been enriched over the releases, such as the addition of layers, printing etc., I find it very easy to stay within C1. The improved quality of the output in v7, along with new features like cataloging and the gradient filter, makes it even more convenient to stay within C1.

As with any major release, there will be some growing pains. Software companies should not GA a release until x.1 and should rather go through some controlled introduction process with x.0 if it was up to me, but the realities of competition and customers usually trump this. I recall a few months ago when LR4 was released, there were strong calls for the next version of C1 to be out, so we all part of this process :)

But all is not rosy. I had hoped that they would have added some feature to the printing function like the ability to add a simple line border. Sorry if this makes you chuckle :)

Stitching within C1, and especially directly on the raw file, while being non-destructive would be very clever. Not sure if this is feasible, but I would think that as tech cams become an increasingly important differentiator for MFDB vs. integrated DSLRs, supporting this kind of thing will become a priority. The focus on improving LCC useability in v7 is a very good sign.

The one "feature" I am still waiting for, at least for minor and maintenance releases, to be able to just upgrade via the application, instead of the whole "remove everything" and reinstall. Especially on the Mac, this should not be difficult. Having lived in the software world for 20 years, and jaded, I will continue to call this a feature, along with other features like documentation, release notes etc. :)

Bottom line for me.....for the relatively low price of the software, and the extremely generous upgrade fees, I think we are getting a great deal here. Remember, these guys are very small fish compared to Adobe and Apple, and they still continue to impress me with their software.
 
Hi Paul:
- good news: this is not the way a properly functioning installation of v7 works
- bad news: I can't explain why this is happening on your system. I'd suggest a clean install (removing the extra app support and pref files) and if it persists start a support case.

When a properly functioning v7 installation looks at an image that was adjusted in v6 it will be rendered effectively identically to the way v6 rendered it. ONLY when you push the "upgrade to v7" does it change, in accordance to the new math available in v7.

Jack: you in fact CAN revert an image that was upgraded to v7 back to the math of v6. Change preferences: default rendering to v6 and then create a "new variant" and (if desired) copy and apply the v7 upgraded settings to the v6 image (e.g. crop/rotation etc). This won't be a popularly used work around though given how universally better the v7 math is than the v6 math.
Tip for anyone who wants to keep a V6 version of the file. Open the session, select the file, Right Click, Clone Variant, upgrade the variant to V7. Now you have both versions.
 

gazwas

Active member
Tip for anyone who wants to keep a V6 version of the file. Open the session, select the file, Right Click, Clone Variant, upgrade the variant to V7. Now you have both versions.
I thougt clone variant made a virtual copy of the file, not a duplicate. For example (at least in V6) you couldn't colour tag the variant different to the original as they were one and the same file. Would be good if all this has changed in V7?
 
Yes just a virtual copy. The colour tagging is still flawed, also if you keep raw and jpegs together, they both get the tag still. You can have a V6 and V7 variant side by side using the above procedure as long as the file was previously processed in V6.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Some of the above posts are not correct.

A variant in v7 CAN be assigned a different color tag than another variant of the same file. Said differently selecting a variant and setting a color tag on that variant has no impact on the color tag of the other variants of that image.

You CAN move between v6 and v7 math (either direction) using "new variant". If you are moving from v6 to v7 math then set your preferences to "default engine: v7", clone your variant and push "upgrade" in the base characteristics tool. If you are moving from v7 to v6 math then you set preferences to "default engine: v6" and start a NEW variant which will automatically be a v6 math variant.

Since we are talking about math only, and no change to the actual raw file sitting on the hard drive, it's perfectly possible to have two variants of one raw file, one with each version of the math.

Granted I can't think of many reasons to move down from v7 math to v6 math given how great an improvement v7 math is. I had to learn to do it so I could take images that had only been seen in v7 and make comparisons between the two maths for educational purposes.

If any of the above does not describe C1 on your computer then you are experience a bug or a misunderstanding. The way I describe it is the way it should work on a properly functioning installation of v7.0.
 

gazwas

Active member
A variant in v7 CAN be assigned a different color tag than another variant of the same file. Said differently selecting a variant and setting a color tag on that variant has no impact on the color tag of the other variants of that image.
Great news that Doug as this was never possible in V6. Shame you still can't give the variant a different name though eg. shotX-original and shotX-moody etc for quick browsing reference.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Great news that Doug as this was never possible in V6. Shame you still can't give the variant a different name though eg. shotX-original and shotX-moody etc for quick browsing reference.
I'd definitely appreciate the ability to accomplish that goal. But it would have to be done in such a way that the name of the underlying raw file was not obscured. The entire point is there is only one raw file, so anything that makes it less transparent that there is only one raw file will confuse many users.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I am pretty sure you can copy a v6 raw file directly in it's current folder and rename it with say a "_7" after the existing filename, then apply the 7 engine to that copy. The 2 files should remain side-by-side in your browser.
 

6x7

New member
sorry, didn't have the time to follow the post… but this is in addition to what i described before.
mostly with b&W conversions. first is v6 and second v7. anyone any idea ?

 

alan_w_george

New member
sorry, didn't have the time to follow the post… but this is in addition to what i described before.
mostly with b&W conversions. first is v6 and second v7. anyone any idea ?

Edit: I see now you are comparing v6 with v7(with v6 engine) and not v6 engine with v7 engine. Sorry for the confusion....

In my experience, the C1 v7 and v6 engines have very different responses to the same adjustments. So a comparison between v6 and v7 with the same adjustments is not very meaningful. I have definitely had to relearn how to get the look I want. My old v6 adjustments with v7 are NOT anywhere near the same. I'm not sure if the intention was for them to be similar, but they are clearly not. So your results are not surprising, at least to me.
 
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dougpeterson

Workshop Member
O yeah, this is the old very understandable misunderstanding that the number in the user interface refers to something absolute or fixed.

"33 points of contrast" in C1v3,C1v4,C1v6, C1v7,LR1, LR4, Aperture 3 are all fundamentally different.

Specifically between v6 and v7 the increased range of highlight and shadow recovery in v7 meant that you could end up with a very flat image in which the max contrast in v6 would not be enough. This necessitated increasing the relative strength of the contrast slider in v7, especially at higher values.

Similar things happened to many other sliders. For instance the single-pixel noise reduction slider is now so much better at finding pesky single pixels that the previous max setting of 100 was deemed too low of a maximum. The "new" 100 is more like 120 would have been in v6 had 120 been an allowed value.

When you upgrade an image from the v6 engine to the v7 engine it should adjust some slider positions according to a rough approximation of their relative positions in the new engine. But it's impossible (or at least highly impractical) for them to provide such adjustments in a way that maintains identical looks for all images, especially when any HDR or clarity is in use (since the math for those has fundamentally changed in a very drastic way).

So bottom line, when you upgrade from v6 to v7 engine the look of the image may change. It will change more if you've used HDR or clarity.

If maintaining the same look as before is important then you have two options:
- leave the image in v6 engine; it won't change one bit
- make a variant, upgrade the engine of the variant to v7, and adjust (manually) to match as much as two different engines can
 
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6x7

New member
If maintaining the same look as before is important then you have two options:
- leave the image in v6 engine; it won't change one bit
- make a variant, upgrade the engine of the variant to v7, and adjust (manually) to match as much as two different engines can

ok, thanks Doug but I may give up at this point and see what the next iteration brings up…

one last try: mabe it's because of my faulty english… did you look at the picture ? the upgrade option is still there. the file is UNTOUCHED and left in the v6 engine. it is not upgraded to v7 engine. so it should be displayed like in v6.
and as you say: "leave the image in v6 engine; it won't change one bit" hey…. IT CHANGED… as one can see….

so end of the story up until now... using CAPTURE ONE 7 means you throw away all the adjustments/looks/styles you build up over the years ? that's the main point !!!

cheers, paul
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
ok, thanks Doug but I may give up at this point and see what the next iteration brings up…

one last try: mabe it's because of my faulty english… did you look at the picture ? the upgrade option is still there. the file is UNTOUCHED and left in the v6 engine. it is not upgraded to v7 engine. so it should be displayed like in v6.
and as you say: "leave the image in v6 engine; it won't change one bit" hey…. IT CHANGED… as one can see….

so end of the story up until now... using CAPTURE ONE 7 means you throw away all the adjustments/looks/styles you build up over the years ? that's the main point !!!
Paul: again, that's not normal or expected. You're experiencing some bug. Either uninstall v7, go back to v6 for now and put your head in the sand and presumably it will be fixed. OR stay on v7 and start a support case so you can help them figure out what's going on with your installation (because it's not normal). I'd prefer the later since I've not seen this bug reported elsewhere it could be a pretty unique bug which, if you don't repot it, might not be fixed quickly. But of course your job is not software testing, so it's perfectly understandable if you just want to give up and go to v6 for now.

On a normal v7 install when you view a v6-adjusted file it will be identical to how it looked in v6 until/unless you upgrade the engine.

Either way, reloading your v6 adjustments should be easy; either they are still there (in which case just reopen v6 and you will see them) or they've been screwed up by your buggy v7 install in which case you can easily reload them from your backup (you DO have a backup of your images right?). You don't even need to restore your raw files themselves from your backup - just the "Capture One" folder of sidecar adjustments.
 
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