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Thread: Digital infraRed!

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    Digital infraRed!

    Hi All

    I figured it is time to have a thread about digital IR. I have been playing around with different IR options. I started with converted Nikon cameras, the latest is the full spectrum D800.
    My favorite is the full spectrum leaf, I started with 33 and now I have the Credo 80mp full spectrum.
    I will post pictures as I figure out the best way to do so, my pics always come out small and degraded on this site.
    I figured we start a thread to share our equipments including cameras and filters and of course pics.


    Amr

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Hi Amr

    I use a converted Canon 5D MK2 and I have done some IR (and UV)work with the Achromatic +. Right now I am digging more into the UV direction but the IR stuff definitely is fascinating.

    I used it for material analysis (watermarks on ancient papers) and Paintings for customers here in Germany, Bavarian State Library and Museum Brandhorst and some others.

    I can also point to the Megavision multispectral systems, using UV and IR lighting with dedicated narrow bandwidth illumination.

    regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Stefan

    What filters do you use for the IR and "true cut"? Have you experimented with no filter?
    I also have the phase one achromatic, I am still experimenting with it mainly finding the sweet spot for focus in different spectra &/or filters.
    I tried to get Megavision E7, but, they are so busy and it took they few months to respond.

    Amr

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    RZ 67 pro IID, 110mm, Leaf 33mp full spectrum (no filter)

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    I have some Heliopan filters (IR and UV) as well as some chinese IR Nonames (I use 86mm size which are a fortune from the normal makers) for which I didn´t see much difference until now.

    The biggest problem so far with the Zeiss IR lenses I used was the large focus differences with the IR spectrum. This is ok when you work with the canon, but makes usage with the Achromatic+ limited to tethered shooting.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Phase One P21 IR back with Tech Cam. Deep IR filter. Four shot stitch:

    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Phase One P45+ IR back with infra-color orange filter. Hasselblad H2 with 50mm lens.

    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    My grand parents garden in Ohio. Phase One P45+ IR with deep IR filter. Tech cam.

    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Here are some analysis images we did with the achromatic+, one UV shot
    and 2 x IR , a watermark and some hidden writings on the back of a print.
    This was for the Bavarian State Library.

    if you want to know more about this here is a complete article that I have written for this 2 years ago.

    http://www.hcam.de/downloads/Hartble...V3_English.pdf

    Greetings from Germany
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Stefan, Sorry to point this out, once again- your "UV shot" is unlikely an UV shot but an IR shot for these two reasons:

    1. The lens you used would hardly transmit any UV.

    2. The filter you used also transmits a lot of IR.

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Hello Vivek

    we had discussed this before, didn´t we ?

    Greetings from Lindenberg
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Yes and the conclusions are the same. I feel the achromatic +and such deserve proper techniques.

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Your conclusions are the same to be exact.....

    regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Very interesting Stefan. Thanks for the link. While not for the same thing, we had some interesting results shooting clams under UV using autofluorescence to show growth rings.

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Fluorescence, generally, is visible light imaging..

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Right now I am looking into several narrowband lightings with LED´s. Quite interesting. This is fun to do and even cheap, there are UV "Camplights"for 10 to 20 € .

    Megavisions Multispectral emitters also work like this. there are
    UV 365nm
    Visible 445,470,505,530,570,617,625 nm
    and IR 700,735,780,870,,940,1050 nm

    This concept is even more interesting as it needs no filters at all, as long as the lens is transmitting the spectral range.

    regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Fluorescence, generally, is visible light imaging..
    Really? Is that why I cannot see the UV output from my fluorescence illuminator. Autofluorescence tends to be in the UV.

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    In that case, how exactly did you photograph it? Which camera, lens, filter? What was your irradiation source? Could you see the fluorescence with your naked eyes? Without all that it is all a mystery under the heading of "UV photography".

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    What are you talking about? UV and fluorescence photography is not exactly new.

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    So, no details to offer on the UV induced UV fluoresence you were talking about?

    While not exactly new, it is extraordinarily rare and difficult.

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Funny, we do it all the time in our lab.

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    You very well might. The point is for photography with the Achromatic+ sensor or the "full spectrum" modified ones. Even Achromatic site appears to be in error when it comes to lenses and filters.

    If you do not want to add anything useful that is fine (see the OP).

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Looks like UV imaging is very possible:

    Spectral Response

    Why don't you start another thread if you want to talk about something other than posting IR photography.

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Right now I am looking into several narrowband lightings with LED´s. Quite interesting. This is fun to do and even cheap, there are UV "Camplights"for 10 to 20 € .

    Megavisions Multispectral emitters also work like this. there are
    UV 365nm
    Visible 445,470,505,530,570,617,625 nm
    and IR 700,735,780,870,,940,1050 nm

    This concept is even more interesting as it needs no filters at all, as long as the lens is transmitting the spectral range.

    regards
    Stefan
    Well, Stefan, at least we have come to an understanding that a lens needs to transmit UV in order to record UV.

    I have seen the Megavision set up and have talked to Will who makes those.
    The UV LEDs they use are exactly the ones I use. They are from Nichia and cost >$125/each for the bare emitter. Even these need filtration (there is a very small blue leak).

    All the others that sell for a few $ on eBay just making good conversation pieces.

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Here is a stitched pano using a Pentax 645D and a B+W IR filter. The sky is uneven. I have not done a lot of work with near IR with the 645D.


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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Did anybody use the chromatic+ and the Megavision E6 and E7? If yes, what are the differences? It seems they use the same sensor and what makes the achromatic better when it comes to long exposure (noise wise)?
    I have the achromatic back and I researched the E7, the advantages in favor of the phase one, in my humble photo-enthusiast opinion, are the ease of use (no need for a tablet to drag around) and long exposure performance.

    Amr

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    @AMR

    You summoned this up quite good already, but the point is these are two different purpose systems. The Megavision solution is a stationary solution mostly for inhouse, repro, scientific and studio work. The advantage is also from the software with multichannel (as many as you want and can define freely!) and standard formats that go into image databases and also offer an interface for software in these areas (open source serverbased unix solutions mostly develloped on universities and scrientific institutions). The Backs come as units with a dedicated lighting system when you want this , the software will do the management of the LED lighting for Multispectral.
    The Achromatic plus is a derivat from a commercial photography back that got the BW version of the otherwise used color chip from Kodak that is used by the P45+. there is no such specialized software and analysis interface as the megavision software, you are using Capture One to access the images.
    This is not a fault, but simply another league of purpose.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Digital infraRed!

    Update, after getting several cheap (ranging from 10 € to 40 € UV,IR and monochromatic LED emitters) lamps from Ebay I can say this is big fun. The most expensive thing in this setup is my Heliopan UV filter, I know there may be better ones but these are even more expensive, the results are already pretty good with the Heliopan. I tried this in the dark and then there are no IR peaks from the surrounding, the effect is pretty amazing, I tried it on my teeth and could clearly see the plastic or ceramic inlays differ from the original teeth, it´s also a matter of material you look at, when they are really equaly the differences may become better visible with a shorter wavelength. I also am using some old Nikkor EL lenses now, these are even better for UV, 63mm,75mm and 80mm(even with infinity).

    The IR filters I have go from Orange, Dark red/visible ,720nm, 760nm, 860nm and 920nm, I need to check some more light sources but so far you can really use the Canon 5D MK2 in total darkness as a nighvision device now on Liveview. I will also look into terrarium lamps, IR Bulbs and cosmetical nail hardeners (which are sold cheaply and should be significantly shorter (UV-B) than the bluish LED Flashlights and Discolights.

    Overall: fascinating ! Highly recommended for anyone who wants to learn something new. Costs very limited- you just need a converted Camera, this service is done at several shops, In Germany I highly recommend Optik Maccario in Mönchengladbach. He told me he can also do MF Backs !
    am thinking of converting (hopefully soon) my eMotion 75LV

    regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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