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Thread: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

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    Member Aryan Aqajani's Avatar
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    Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    It is been a while since I have decided to branch out into architecture/interior design photography as the main part of my business. Therefore, need to setup a kit that can get the job done (more than enough IQ for today's jobs and clients) and also give me some enjoyment when working with as well. That is why I am torn between getting a DSLR or take advantage of my DM22 back by using it with a technical camera like Cambo WRS1200! A Cambo 1200 and 35mm XL with a back adaptor and iPhone holder quite cost me the same as getting a DSLR and a tilt and shift or Zeiss lens!

    I know similar questions have been raised before regarding technical cameras and DSLRs like Nikon D800E but I think there is no specific comparison between a lower end digital back and say D800E regarding architecture/interior design photography! I've read all the threads about the available wide angle lenses for Nikon D800E, downloaded and played with D800E RAW files, and so on! Also, emailed some fellow photographers like Guy, Tim Ashely and Dan Lindberg to get their opinion! So yeah, quite a comprehensive research and still can't make a decision

    So here is my situation;

    Mamiya DM22 back on a technical camera
    - Thinking of using the iPhone holder for composing but hate to believe that there is no way to check how much I need to rise/fall unless take a photo/check/retake/check! On the other hand, I know using a ground glass to check composition, focus and movement on a very tiny area of a 36x48mm sensor is not that practical! So, wondering how architecture photographer really compose where the composition and framing is very important, shooting tethered! Don't like it either!

    - Base ISO of 25 and max exposure of 30s of my back, make me think if it is really practical to use when there is not enough light for exteriors like at dusk! Considering that I may have to use CF in some situations, have no idea how to cope with the exposure! I Know Dan Lindberg had used CF few times with the same back for his interior photography and some landscape as well and that make me wonder if it can be applied to shooting exterior architecture as well!

    - The idea of using LCC with each shift movement is a nightmare! It seems that some folks believe they got used to it after a while!

    - Such setup gives more movements, better IQ and corner sharpness, 4:3 ratio and quite 3D looking images that some us see and most don't but all the above hassle make me hesitant to go all technical!


    A DSLR setup like Nikon D800E/Canon 5D MK III + tilt and shift lenses
    - A lot of complains and bad reviews of Nikon 24mm PC-E on D800E! It seems there is not a very good wide tilt/shift lens for such setup! The other option is getting a wider lens like Zeiss 18mm or 21mm and do all the perspective correction in PS!

    - Great tilt shift lenses from Canon but not a good sensor! Canon still suffers from shadow noise, lower dynamic range than Nikon and also less resolution!

    - Great Live View function on both of them which makes life easy (better on Canon)

    - Long exposure and low light capability of these systems which is incomparable to my digital back!

    - Less movements for sure!

    Both technical cameras and DSLRS are not perfect! Each has their own limitations and that makes decision making so much harder!

    1- Apart from personal experience and enjoyment of working with a tool you like, what would you choose if you were in my shoes!?

    2- Do you think the quality of DSLR system like D800E and some wide or tilt and shift lenses would be excellent enough for today's market even if the IQ of those lenses are inferior to their LF brothers!?

    3- So basically, does the IQ of DM22 back on a technical camera would be better than a D800E with a not very good lens? (Nikon 24mm PC-E, Zeiss 18mm or 21mm)

    I should mention that my budget is very tight so cannot upgrade my back at this stage! So, I have to make a decision to pickup one of these systems and never look back!

    Thank you so much in advance for your opinions!
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Tough call!

    I love my tech camera and digital back but they are a PITA for some shoots and depends on the shooting conditions and your style.

    Give a tech/digi back a well illuminated scenes or staged lighting with strobe etc the digital back excels. If your style is more available light shooting then I personally feel the quality of the MFD files drops (I use P65) off when shooting over a few seconds exposure and the FF DSLR gives cleaner results. IMO you loose some of that sharpness and clarity cleaning up the noise that builds up.

    Its all made worse when using centre filters on some lenses, illumination fall off when adding movements and LCC correcting colour shifts..

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Its a tough call and my answer in a PM was basically this. If i was shooting for top notch mags and arch. designers and more of the high end market clients . I would go back to a tech cam IQ160 and my Rodie 28 and some secondary lenses. Even a IQ 140 would be fine. But now let me clarify this because the real estate market is a little on the low end of the world here it is more go in bang and shoot they make a laser copy and put it in a mail box in front of the house and more to the point less income from it. Guess really what I am saying here besides all the technical reasons and stuff its really the ROI on what your doing. As a business it makes little sense to buy 40k worth of gear and charge 150 dollars per house and maybe do 5 or so houses a week. That would take lets guess 2 years to recoup. However if your doing 1500- 3000 per house and your clients have that demand for 3 or 4 shots per house and its the top end of the business with lighting and such than the ROI on the tech cam makes perfect sense since your also now competing with higher end shooters as well. I'm just talking the business side of the house. Technically the tech cam is truly the best option since rise and fall and movements are exactly right up the tech cams strengths but if there is low money high quantity type work, you will work your butt off for little dough.

    Now the other side of the coin. You folks got me on a role here as these are Guys personally calls on life in photography. LOL
    But if I walk into a 900k home to 3 million dollar home and I want this for my book and really want it to be special than screw the real money and work on your book as that can even be more important to your future. Nothing better than show casing your book with some gorgeous homes. I know that just threw a wrench in the gears but you do have to think about yourself as well. If i'm out there shooting top notch interiors and exteriors i want a tech cam in my hands. Not that i could not score very well with a D800 E because i can any day of the week ( being honest here not bragging) but I want all the movements and top notch file to work with. I say that with a Nikon D800E sitting next to me. Again what works best and whats going to make me look best are always my top priorities and also serving my client of course.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Tough call!

    I love my tech camera and digital back but they are a PITA for some shoots and depends on the shooting conditions and your style.

    Give a tech/digi back a well illuminated scenes or staged lighting with strobe etc the digital back excels. If your style is more available light shooting then I personally feel the quality of the MFD files drops (I use P65) off when shooting over a few seconds exposure and the FF DSLR gives cleaner results. IMO you loose some of that sharpness and clarity cleaning up the noise that builds up.

    Its all made worse when using centre filters on some lenses, illumination fall off when adding movements and LCC correcting colour shifts..
    Well said! These are some of the reasons that make me believe although technical cameras are made for architecture photography, there are some serious limitations to them, of course depending on the shooting situation and the style of photography!

    I have no problem to use strobes for interiors but not too sure if it is possible to illuminate the exterior of a large building with strobes!!! And personally, I prefer to use natural light as often as I can and do 1-2 exposure bracketing where needed!
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    1- Apart from personal experience and enjoyment of working with a tool you like, what would you choose if you were in my shoes!?

    It's a very sad day when you must neglect the personal experience and enjoyment of working with a tool you like. Life is short; you should always try to find ways to work with the tools you like.

    If I have two possible assistants and both of them can carry the same weight, handle lighting adjustments equally fast/efficiently, and both show up on time, but one annoys the crap out of me while the other one makes my day more enjoyable, I will gladly pay a little more for the one that makes things more enjoyable. Why would it be different with cameras?

    2- Do you think the quality of DSLR system like D800E and some wide or tilt and shift lenses would be excellent enough for today's market even if the IQ of those lenses are inferior to their LF brothers!?

    I've yet to see any lens that can come close to the quality of the Schneider/Rodenstock wide angle lenses. The bonus of having movements with all of them (but the 24XL) is huge for interiors/architecture. MANY areas of photography do not benefit much from lenses with sharper edges, less chromatic aberration, less distortion, and native movements; take for instance portraiture where sharp lens-corners usually won't improve the image, and may even hurt it. But in architecture/interiors the quality of your lens is first, second, and third on my list of items to worry about regarding technical quality of the image. A 100mp dSLR with 100 stops of dynamic range would still be trounced by a DM22 with a Schneider lens because of the glass; you simply cannot underestimate how important the glass is.

    IMO LCC is annoying. But that's it: annoying. With a DM22 you can store the LCC in the back itself and work off a finite number of presets; or you can grab an LCC shot after each good capture (when you've changed aperture/position/lenses).

    Focusing for these applications can be really dead simple; find (by practical testing, not chart or calculation) the hyperfocal for your system at f/16 (which will be sharp on a DM22), and then find the closest point you are sharp (write it on the inside of the lens cap in case you forget) and then leave it there forever more and don't place anything closer than your acceptable near point.

    I think you really have to address these points seriously:
    - will the long exposure really hinder you? Look through your images of the last year or two and find the longest exposure and translate it into f/8 at ISO50 (which is the highest I'd recommend for long exposures). If you regularly push past 8-15 seconds, and looking at those shots you couldn't have done them differently without great business or personal compromise - then this is a deal killer.
    - will the overall working speed being a bit slower prohibit you from doing what you need to do business wise? Tech cameras, once you're used to them, can be quite fast. However, they will never be as fast as a D800 (which you can even pump ISO and shoot handheld when really rushing).

    IMO the greatest temptation in business is the race to the bottom. The best move I ever made in my wedding photography was to double my prices. "Good enough" is the start of that race in my opinion. Pick the equipment, marketing, rates, and customer approach of where you want to be, not where you feel yourself being dragged down into. But then again I'm young and naive and I make no claim that wedding photography is akin to any other kind of photography, nor do I do it as my only income, nor have I ever tried to do it in a smaller secondary market (Miami and NYC have treated me quite well for wedding clients).
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Member Aryan Aqajani's Avatar
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Its a tough call and my answer in a PM was basically this. If i was shooting for top notch mags and arch. designers and more of the high end market clients . I would go back to a tech cam IQ160 and my Rodie 28 and some secondary lenses. Even a IQ 140 would be fine. But now let me clarify this because the real estate market is a little on the low end of the world here it is more go in bang and shoot they make a laser copy and put it in a mail box in front of the house and more to the point less income from it. Guess really what I am saying here besides all the technical reasons and stuff its really the ROI on what your doing. As a business it makes little sense to buy 40k worth of gear and charge 150 dollars per house and maybe do 5 or so houses a week. That would take lets guess 2 years to recoup. However if your doing 1500- 3000 per house and your clients have that demand for 3 or 4 shots per house and its the top end of the business with lighting and such than the ROI on the tech cam makes perfect sense since your also now competing with higher end shooters as well. I'm just talking the business side of the house. Technically the tech cam is truly the best option since rise and fall and movements are exactly right up the tech cams strengths but if there is low money high quantity type work, you will work your butt off for little dough.

    Now the other side of the coin. You folks got me on a role here as these are Guys personally calls on life in photography. LOL
    But if I walk into a 900k home to 3 million dollar home and I want this for my book and really want it to be special than screw the real money and work on your book as that can even be more important to your future. Nothing better than show casing your book with some gorgeous homes. I know that just threw a wrench in the gears but you do have to think about yourself as well. If i'm out there shooting top notch interiors and exteriors i want a tech cam in my hands. Not that i could not score very well with a D800 E because i can any day of the week ( being honest here not bragging) but I want all the movements and top notch file to work with. I say that with a Nikon D800E sitting next to me. Again what works best and whats going to make me look best are always my top priorities and also serving my client of course.
    I understand it Guy! There are some issues here that you did not consider! First of all, I am not going to shoot use either the DSLR kit or Tech cam to shoot real estate! Although the architecture market is tough and very competitive, I would like to do this along the shoot for interior designers, commercial shoots like for rug gallery owners and everything which needs to showcase fine details! So no max $300 real estate shoots here in Australia!

    On the other hand, when you guys talk about tech cameras and digital backs, you often mention IQ series or P45+, P65+ backs! I don't have the budget to go that route yet so need to find out if a low end back like DM22/Leaf Aptus-II 5 on a technical camera still make a difference than say a D800E or 5D MK III with beautiful TS-E II lenses!
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    I have no problem to use strobes for interiors but not too sure if it is possible to illuminate the exterior of a large building with strobes!!! And personally, I prefer to use natural light as often as I can and do 1-2 exposure bracketing where needed!
    Leaf shutter lens with strobe and a digital back means you can fire multiple strobe hits for a single exposure.

    You can trigger the shutter at 1/500th at f/8 with a 1000ws head e.g. four times resulting in 1/125th at f/8 ambient light with 4000ws worth of light hitting the subject.

    This technique is most useful with e.g. a P45+ where you can expose arbitrarily long and build up as many exposures as you want, and it also requires a very sturdy tripod/head and a careful finger to keep registration (and even then I'd only suggest it for mid and wide lenses rather than long lenses). It also only works for static scenes (unless you want to double/tripple/etc expose any moving parts of the scene like pedestrians).

    But it can be used with a DM22 to get 2-4 strobe hits without building up ambient exposure.

    Works especially well when shooting a vast interior with large windows where you will run out of strobe power quickly.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    On the other hand, when you guys talk about tech cameras and digital backs, you often mention IQ series or P45+, P65+ backs! I don't have the budget to go that route yet so need to find out if a low end back like DM22/Leaf Aptus-II 5 on a technical camera still make a difference than say a D800E or 5D MK III with beautiful TS-E II lenses!
    I would say unequivocally yes on the quality.

    So long as the length of exposure is shorter and the ISO is kept low. That's really the factor you have to decide based on.

    Give a DM22 and a Schneider lens enough light and a low ISO and you will be amazed how well it performs. Try to push it to high ISO or long exposures and you'd quickly be disappointed.

    Also, not mentioned so far is the ability to do a quick stitch (keeping the lens still and moving the back) in order to up the resolution of your DM22 when deemed necessary.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Thank you Doug Yes, that low ISO and short exposure time is driving me nuts but I LOVE the color and tone of my back, very very close to film! Today, it is a super sunny day in Melbourne. I measured the light falling on the exterior wall of our building with my Sekonic L-758DR (incident mode), giving me f/16, 1/30s at ISO50! Now, imagine the same situation in the winter or at dusk! In your opinion, what's the max usable exposure on DM22 back depending on the weather! 15s?

    As mentioned before, I'd like to know if there is any other method of finding out the movements needed without resorting to shooting tethered or using ground glass! Say, I just get the iPhone holder and would like not to shoot tethered! So, the only way to find out how much movement I need is to shoot/check/shoot and check again! Is that right?
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    I understand it Guy! There are some issues here that you did not consider! First of all, I am not going to shoot use either the DSLR kit or Tech cam to shoot real estate! Although the architecture market is tough and very competitive, I would like to do this along the shoot for interior designers, commercial shoots like for rug gallery owners and everything which needs to showcase fine details! So no max $300 real estate shoots here in Australia!

    On the other hand, when you guys talk about tech cameras and digital backs, you often mention IQ series or P45+, P65+ backs! I don't have the budget to go that route yet so need to find out if a low end back like DM22/Leaf Aptus-II 5 on a technical camera still make a difference than say a D800E or 5D MK III with beautiful TS-E II lenses!
    Okay and it sounds more like you want the tech cam to me and you can still use your DM 22 with no issues as well. I like Cambo myself but both Arca and Alpa are really good as well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    The Cambo Rangefinder has masks that show the amount of movement.

    The iPhone app is also a good option.

    Max depends entirely on the ambient temp and your definition of "usable".

    You have the back so best way to answer that is to try a series of long exposures and run them in capture one 7. Make sure your firmware is up to date before you do.

    Then judge for yourself.

    And don't shoot right in a row, wait at least a few seconds between frames to let it cool down.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Don't want to make this sound negative to the tech camera but coming from a DSLR, Copal shutters are very basic and difficult to work with for longer exposures. Two long exposures as a stitch where one is not exactly the same exposure as the other is a pain to match up in post.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay and it sounds more like you want the tech cam to me and you can still use your DM 22 with no issues as well. I like Cambo myself but both Arca and Alpa are really good as well.
    Guy, it seems I am falling into tech cam trap haha If I finally set my mind and heart on tech cam, I'd get Cambo WRS1200!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    The Cambo Rangefinder has masks that show the amount of movement..
    When I talked about this optical viewfinder with my local Phase One dealer ( I should mention here that he has been so nice and helpful to me so far), he mounted it on the Cambo and asked me to have a look! Guess what! If you move a bit, then whole frame changes as well! So, he told me the optical finder is kinda useless and don't bother with it! Recommending the iPhone holder which is a bit more precise with no way of showing movements if I still insist I need something to help me frame my shot!
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Absolutely true. Stitching over 1" is not straight forward. Possible but error prone and difficult.

    Stitching gets easier again for exposures longer than 30" when the error factor is small as a total of the exposure. Though this isnt helpful on a DM22.
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Don't want to make this sound negative to the tech camera but coming from a DSLR, Copal shutters are very basic and difficult to work with for longer exposures. Two long exposures as a stitch where one is not exactly the same exposure as the other is a pain to match up in post.
    These comments are more than welcome Gareth, appreciate it for sharing it with me!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Absolutely true. Stitching over 1" is not straight forward. Possible but error prone and difficult.

    Stitching gets easier again for exposures longer than 30" when the error factor is small as a total of the exposure. Though this isnt helpful on a DM22.
    Thanks for confirming this Doug! Man, nothing is perfect in this world
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Your eye needs to be centered, but it's not exactly rocket science. Calling it "useless" seems a bit exaggerated. You can easily get within 1-2mm of the movement you need, after which the final tweak should be done based on the camera LCD.

    Though I do prefer the iPhone route or the excellent Arca finder.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    What is wrong with using a ground glass to set your movements? It is simple and straight forward. If you are just using shifts, it is even easier and certainly can be done with a test shot and a level. Dan Linberg shoots his tech camera with a very loose style and the end results are very formal. And what is the rush? If you have clients that thinks quality comes from 5 minutes and a few snapshot, then get an RX100.

    Another point would be that a tech camera would be very impressive for the clients--how many people turn up with a DSLR? At some level, the clients are not worried about pixels but quality.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Your eye needs to be centered, but it's not exactly rocket science. Calling it "useless" seems a bit exaggerated. You can easily get within 1-2mm of the movement you need, after which the final tweak should be done based on the camera LCD.

    Though I do prefer the iPhone route or the excellent Arca finder.
    Doug, can give more information about how the Arca finder actually works!? You know from all these tech cameras, I really liked the Arca RM3DI specially for the fact that tilt is built in the camera so available for all lenses! But again more expensive and my dealer told me it would probably take around six month to get it delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    What is wrong with using a ground glass to set your movements? It is simple and straight forward. If you are just using shifts, it is even easier and certainly can be done with a test shot and a level. Dan Linberg shoots his tech camera with a very loose style and the end results are very formal. And what is the rush? If you have clients that thinks quality comes from 5 minutes and a few snapshot, then get an RX100.

    Another point would be that a tech camera would be very impressive for the clients--how many people turn up with a DSLR? At some level, the clients are not worried about pixels but quality.
    I have not tried the ground glass myself at all so no experience whatsoever here! I got this impression from reading different comments by some users stating that since a 36x48mm sensor cannot use the whole area of the glass and there would be a mask on top of it then one has to use a 4x or 8x loupe to see what's going on! One more problem is attaching and removing the back to compose the shot!

    Honestly, I think I would enjoy using ground glass more as it is more traditional way of making a picture! Like how I feel when I look through the big RZ waist level finder! So, you believe GG is not that dark in some situation and is easy to work with?

    In fact, apart from IQ and movements, one of the reason I'd like to have tech cam but less workflow hassle is that client impression factor! I do believe it makes a difference when you meet your clients and he has no idea what that camera is! He or his wife or friend does not have that cam like a 5D or D800 sitting on their table! I have experienced this when I used Mamiya 645AFDIII or even better example, the trusty RZ!
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Another point would be that a tech camera would be very impressive for the clients--how many people turn up with a DSLR? At some level, the clients are not worried about pixels but quality.
    I think that is a myth from photographers trying to justify an overly expensive bit of kit. Clients are generally interested when you pull out an unusual camera but IMO they don't really care what it is as long as they like your pictures. Put it this way, you have to get the booking first before the client even sees your camera bag, never mind the camera.

    My take on the Tech camera is they are amazing. Give them the proper stage with wonderful lighting and they will sing. Used for something a little more challenging and it all goes down hill quickly. The problem is not the wonderful cameras or superb lenses but the technology in the digital backs that limits the tech camera at present.

    I've done the whole tech camera thing and still love using it but I'm going full circle and looking at adding some of the new Canon TS-E lenses to my bag and very probably the new 1Ds when it finally gets released.
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Every finder I have seen on workshops seems never to get used. They sound nice and are okay. Myself I never bothered but a iPhone I would if I had a older back especially since the LCD is just good enough on them but the IQ and Credo backs its a lot easier to shoot adjust , shoot adjust just like working with polariods. Now that's my preference but you may like them. After about a month of using a tech cam you get to be pretty good at guessing your framing and usually off just by a little. I level the cam both horizontally and vertically than usually aim shoot and than in most cases add a little rise . Once you get used to it you can work pretty fast.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Every finder I have seen on workshops seems never to get used. They sound nice and are okay. Myself I never bothered but a iPhone I would if I had a older back especially since the LCD is just good enough on them but the IQ and Credo backs its a lot easier to shoot adjust , shoot adjust just like working with polariods. Now that's my preference but you may like them. After about a month of using a tech cam you get to be pretty good at guessing your framing and usually off just by a little. I level the cam both horizontally and vertically than usually aim shoot and than in most cases add a little rise . Once you get used to it you can work pretty fast.
    I think with an Aptus II (DM) and the increased precision of an interior (rather than a landscape) that an Arca finder would find it's place. Also, I've really falled for the iPhone viewer of late even if I'm late to the party in that regard.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    I think that is a myth from photographers trying to justify an overly expensive bit of kit. Clients are generally interested when you pull out an unusual camera but IMO they don't really care what it is as long as they like your pictures. Put it this way, you have to get the booking first before the client even sees your camera bag, never mind the camera.

    My take on the Tech camera is they are amazing. Give them the proper stage with wonderful lighting and they will sing. Used for something a little more challenging and it all goes down hill quickly. The problem is not the wonderful cameras or superb lenses but the technology in the digital backs that limits the tech camera at present.

    I've done the whole tech camera thing and still love using it but I'm going full circle and looking at adding some of the new Canon TS-E lenses to my bag and very probably the new 1Ds when it finally gets released.
    Fair enough! What's your idea about 5D MK III plus those lenses?


    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Every finder I have seen on workshops seems never to get used. They sound nice and are okay. Myself I never bothered but a iPhone I would if I had a older back especially since the LCD is just good enough on them but the IQ and Credo backs its a lot easier to shoot adjust , shoot adjust just like working with polariods. Now that's my preference but you may like them. After about a month of using a tech cam you get to be pretty good at guessing your framing and usually off just by a little. I level the cam both horizontally and vertically than usually aim shoot and than in most cases add a little rise . Once you get used to it you can work pretty fast.
    Just found out this video about Arca RM3Di An introduction to Arca Swiss R cameras by Rod Klukas on Vimeo The finder seems quite interesting since it gives a bit sense of movements! As you said, iPhone is a different story! Wish they came up with a way of showing movement as well!
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    Doug, can give more information about how the Arca finder actually works!? You know from all these tech cameras, I really liked the Arca RM3DI specially for the fact that tilt is built in the camera so available for all lenses! But again more expensive and my dealer told me it would probably take around six month to get it delivered!

    I have not tried the ground glass myself at all so no experience whatsoever here! I got this impression from reading different comments by some users stating that since a 36x48mm sensor cannot use the whole area of the glass and there would be a mask on top of it then one has to use a 4x or 8x loupe to see what's going on! One more problem is attaching and removing the back to compose the shot!
    Can't speak for other dealers but we can deliver significantly faster than that. We keep a standing order for bodies so we either have them in stock or about to be restocked. But there is no getting around that Arca occasionally goes back-order on a particular lens/body/adapter/etc and it takes a long time to get it.

    Cambo Wide RS AE comes with a magnified, eye-cupped, finder which can slide to the edge of the ground glass. That goes a long way to making it useful.

    BUT it will be quite dark in many interior situations, and it is upsidedown and backwards which takes getting used to. In some ways it's nice because it helps you see the geometry and composition of the scene in a more abstracted way, but certainly not straight forward for first time viewers.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    I have not tried the ground glass myself at all so no experience whatsoever here! I got this impression from reading different comments by some users stating that since a 36x48mm sensor cannot use the whole area of the glass and there would be a mask on top of it then one has to use a 4x or 8x loupe to see what's going on! One more problem is attaching and removing the back to compose the shot!

    Honestly, I think I would enjoy using ground glass more as it is more traditional way of making a picture! Like how I feel when I look through the big RZ waist level finder! So, you believe GG is not that dark in some situation and is easy to work with?
    I use a P25+ back on a Linhof view camera. I have no problems. Many folks are a little taken back by the ground glass experience, but I have used lots of view cameras and am not bothered by it at all. Sure, the glass can be dark, but that does not mean it is useless. Can you get some time with one of these cameras before buying? So much easier when you know what you are in for.

    I have also used a Horseman SW612 panoramic camera. That had a viewfinder. I found the viewfinder to be a good way to frame. There is no DoF feedback nor focus information. With a wide, the distance and DoF scale on the lens was enough.

    I have alway found you need to meet a camera halfway. No camera is perfect and has more and less effective ways of working. I have to spend a little time each time I get a new camera to come to terms with it, kind of like dating and not all dates work out, but I usually end up wed to it. I am sure the RZ took a bit of time to get used to if you were coming from a more usual DSLR, but likewise, it can be more gratifying to use, even with the quirks.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    I think that is a myth from photographers trying to justify an overly expensive bit of kit. Clients are generally interested when you pull out an unusual camera but IMO they don't really care what it is as long as they like your pictures.
    Actually, that is not want I meant. I would never use that to justify a purchase, but I have found that unusual gear greases the wheels in many situations. When I was shooting a Japanese festival, the people that were pushing the crowds back ignored me but not the photographers with DSLRs. I could walk around the event easily. I have had other cases where security has given me a little more care because I did not look like every other photographer turning up to shoot the same thing. It is also nice you don't look like a tourist sometimes as well, although there are downsides to that as well. An unusual camera can be an asset on a shoot.

    But you are right that your reputation is built on the work.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    I think with an Aptus II (DM) and the increased precision of an interior (rather than a landscape) that an Arca finder would find it's place. Also, I've really falled for the iPhone viewer of late even if I'm late to the party in that regard.
    Who said I'm a landscape shooter. I'm really not. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    Fair enough! What's your idea about 5D MK III plus those lenses?




    Just found out this video about Arca RM3Di An introduction to Arca Swiss R cameras by Rod Klukas on Vimeo The finder seems quite interesting since it gives a bit sense of movements! As you said, iPhone is a different story! Wish they came up with a way of showing movement as well!
    It's cool it's expensive and I really only seen one person actually use it out of about a dozen. Buy it after the fact like a month after and see if you need it. I think you would be happy to wait. Ill tell you why you spend more time playing with it than taking a few shots. Just sayin

    On the iPhone I think the Alpa software shows movement. Need to check that though
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    The ALPA eFinder has rise/fall and shift.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Thanks Stephen. I have it on my iPhone as was pretty sure it did.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Guys, I need to get back to my local dealer to see if he has a ground glass for the Cambo WRS1200 and/or download the iPhone app and use it with the cam to see how I go with composing and framing! Also, trying to see if I can play with the whole setup for a couple of days before making a decision to purchase it! In this way, I can get a better idea of the whole process!

    Once again, I think I am more intimated by the fact that my back has more limitation to it than the way of working with a tech camera! If I were 100% sure that I am not going to run into trouble with exposure, making a decision would be much easier job! The idea of 36mp resolution, long exposure and high ISO capabilities of D800E and quite okay IQ of Zeiss 18mm or 21mm, correcting perspective in post (until a great wide tilt and shift lens for Nikon being produced) gives me a hard time!
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    The ALPA eFinder has rise/fall and shift.
    Wow, that's so good to know! Does it cover the 35XL lens on 36x48mm sensor? And I reckon there should not be any issue using it with Cambo?
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Okay, I made a stupid mistake by downloading the Alpa eFinder then realizing that it is only designed for Alpa cameras!
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    The eFinder app allows you to choose the DB size and lens choice. It should work for any camera.

    The limit on lens choice is a function of the iPhone you use. You would need an add-on lens for wide angle lenses.
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Just put in Alpa Max for camera. Won't make a difference . Put your lens in and sensor size.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    My recommendation:

    Step 1:
    5D3 plus the following lens set-up

    Canon 17f4 TSE L
    Canon 24f3.5 TSE L II
    Contax Zeiss 35f3.5 (aperture closed to f11) + Mirex 16mm shift adapter
    Hasselblad Zeiss 50f4 FLE + Mirex 16mm tilt/shift adapter
    Hasselblad Zeiss 100f3.5 FLE + Mirex 16mm tilt/shift adapter

    With this set-up you get the optimum shift ranges and corner sharpnesses in the 17-100mm focal length range. (The image circles of the three Zeiss lenses are sufficient for full 16mm shift movements.)

    Step 2:
    Hartblei HCam or Alpa FPS with Canon EF mount
    DM 22 48x36mm back or
    2nd hand Leaf 75/Leaf Aptus-II 7 33MP 48x36mm back or
    2nd hand Phase One 45/45+ 39MP 49x37mm back or
    2nd hand Phase One 65/65+ 60MP 54x40mm back

    Same lenses as above!
    All lenses allow shift movements to a certain amount.
    No lens requires a LCC file !!!
    Optical quality is equivalent to Schneider/Rodenstock lenses but for a fraction of the investment in lenses.

    IMO such a set-up makes the traditional tech-cam (Alpa, Arca-Swiss, Cambo aso.) obsolete.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Seriously? Never used the canon shift lenses, but I tried the Nikon 24 shift on a D800e. For me the results are incomparable to my Alpa with either Rodi or Schneider lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by chrismuc View Post
    My recommendation:

    Step 1:
    5D3 plus the following lens set-up

    Canon 17f4 TSE L
    Canon 24f3.5 TSE L II
    Contax Zeiss 35f3.5 (aperture closed to f11) + Mirex 16mm shift adapter
    Hasselblad Zeiss 50f4 FLE + Mirex 16mm tilt/shift adapter
    Hasselblad Zeiss 100f3.5 FLE + Mirex 16mm tilt/shift adapter

    With this set-up you get the optimum shift ranges and corner sharpnesses in the 17-100mm focal length range. (The image circles of the three Zeiss lenses are sufficient for full 16mm shift movements.)

    Step 2:
    Hartblei HCam or Alpa FPS with Canon EF mount
    DM 22 48x36mm back or
    2nd hand Leaf 75/Leaf Aptus-II 7 33MP 48x36mm back or
    2nd hand Phase One 45/45+ 39MP 49x37mm back or
    2nd hand Phase One 65/65+ 60MP 54x40mm back

    Same lenses as above!
    All lenses allow shift movements to a certain amount.
    No lens requires a LCC file !!!
    Optical quality is equivalent to Schneider/Rodenstock lenses but for a fraction of the investment in lenses.

    IMO such a set-up makes the traditional tech-cam (Alpa, Arca-Swiss, Cambo aso.) obsolete.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Chris, your first option sound more practical to me although I have no idea about the Mirex 16mm shift adapters! That being said, I know many architecture/interior photographers are pretty happy with their Canon kit and are making good money! One example is Shannon McGrath, a Melbourne based commercial photographer Shannon McGrath Photographer - Commercial Photographers like her who make a living with this type of photography using DSLRs and tilt/shift lenses really make me it is more about vision then a tool to make that vision come true!

    If I had a good DSLR kit, I would never look into tech cameras! I am still considering a DSLR kit with couple of lenses but have not made any decision yet! Image quality aside, need to do more realistic research about the business scope, which system would be more practical and efficient with not breaking the bank at the beginning!
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by shortpballer View Post
    Seriously? Never used the canon shift lenses, but I tried the Nikon 24 shift on a D800e. For me the results are incomparable to my Alpa with either Rodi or Schneider lenses...
    That's right! Many people are complaining about the Nikon 24mm PC-E so no surprise! I believe most architecture photographers are Canon shooters!
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Canon's newer TS-E 24 and TS-E 17 have flexible movements and very good optical quality at least in the ~21 megapixel range, at that resolution you can generally do larger movements than you can with a MF system. The TS-E 24 gives decent quality in combination with the 1.4X version III teleconverter as well if you need a ~35mm focal length. So if you only need around 20 megapixels and these focal lengths I think it is a good system, better than D800. The D800 PC-E lenses don't have that flexible movements either, and the 24 does not have as good optical quality as the Canon counterpart. Canon's live view is better too. Canon is rumoured to update the 45 and 90 TS-E to the more flexible design and better optical quality during 2013, but we'll see about that. The current 45 is a bit poor optical quality, the 90 is good but has inflexible movements (like the 45).

    I have the TS-E 24mm on a Canon 5Dmk2 myself and a Linhof Techno system with a 33 megapixel back. I use the cheaper Schneider digitar lenses. I do mostly landscape though. For professional indoor architecture I'd rather use a pancake camera with HPF ring. Pancake camera without HPF ring seems to me to be a waste, so I'm not so sure about the Cambo, although you can add HPF rings to most(?) lenses. The advantage of Cambo is that it is the system that it is easiest to find second hand parts for on the forums. The view camera works indoor, but one need some dark-gg focusing skill and a back with working 100% focus check (or tethered), so if you do indoor occasionally but mostly outdoor and use a bit longer lenses the view camera can be a good choice (it becomes cheaper if you have many lenses).

    I've used a 22 megapixel back recently as my 33 is on repair, and with that I'd say that it is impossible to fail concerning focus ;-). However, indoor wide angle with center filter and without flash at f/16 the shutter speed is immediately up at 30 second limit...

    If you don't intend to go for higher resolution than your current 22 megapixels I'd surely take a deep look into a Canon system. Make sure to look at what focal lengths you need too. The largest weakness with the DSLRs is the lack of a proper 35mm focal length with tilt/shift, which actually is my favourite focal length for my photography (I use the 47mm Schneider Digitar on my Techno), although you may find the TS-E24 + 1.4X teleconverter to be "good enough".

    Also be prepared that although tech cam lenses are the best they are not perfect, it is difficult to make wide angles with perfect corner sharpness also on tech cams. On the 47mm digitar I see some slight chromatic aberration even with the 22 megapixel back, but it is also an older generation lens, but cheap too and can do large movements. The 35mm digitar has some problematic field curvature. If you need to get the latest Rodenstocks to fulfil your quality expectations the cost can become very high indeed.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Canon's newer TS-E 24 and TS-E 17 have flexible movements and very good optical quality at least in the ~21 megapixel range, at that resolution you can generally do larger movements than you can with a MF system.
    Thank you for this comprehensive information As far as I know, max shift on Canon 24mm lens is 12mm but max movement on Digital 35XL is 20mm on 36x48 sensor! So you mean the usable movements without introducing severe vignetting and corner softness would be around 15mm or even less?


    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    The TS-E 24 gives decent quality in combination with the 1.4X version III teleconverter as well if you need a ~35mm focal length. So if you only need around 20 megapixels and these focal lengths I think it is a good system, better than D800.
    That is an interesting point!

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    The D800 PC-E lenses don't have that flexible movements either, and the 24 does not have as good optical quality as the Canon counterpart. Canon's live view is better too. Canon is rumoured to update the 45 and 90 TS-E to the more flexible design and better optical quality during 2013, but we'll see about that. The current 45 is a bit poor optical quality, the 90 is good but has inflexible movements (like the 45).
    And maybe in the near future, Canon come up with a high MP body

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    For professional indoor architecture I'd rather use a pancake camera with HPF ring. Pancake camera without HPF ring seems to me to be a waste, so I'm not so sure about the Cambo, although you can add HPF rings to most(?) lenses.
    Please forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by pancake camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    The advantage of Cambo is that it is the system that it is easiest to find second hand parts for on the forums. The view camera works indoor, but one need some dark-gg focusing skill and a back with working 100% focus check (or tethered), so if you do indoor occasionally but mostly outdoor and use a bit longer lenses the view camera can be a good choice (it becomes cheaper if you have many lenses).
    The big reason I am looking to either technical or DSLR cameras is the need to have access to wide lenses like 24mm with movements! So, no urgent need for a longer lens at this stage!

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    However, indoor wide angle with center filter and without flash at f/16 the shutter speed is immediately up at 30 second limit...
    That is my biggest concern specially for exteriors!

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    If you don't intend to go for higher resolution than your current 22 megapixels I'd surely take a deep look into a Canon system.
    Not an option in the near future! I prefer to keep DM22 back and only upgrade if there would be a totally new back with modern features like live view and long exposure capability in a 22-33MP range!

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    The 35mm digitar has some problematic field curvature. If you need to get the latest Rodenstocks to fulfil your quality expectations the cost can become very high indeed.
    So by that you mean Digital 35XL? That is the lens I was looking at if I go tech route! I can't afford to get the 28XL or the more expensive Rodenstocks ones!
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    I'm confused, it doesn't sound like you have begun to solve your shutter issue? Surely however incredible a tech camera system is, if you can't get your exposure then it's all academic?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    The Contax 645 35f3.5 Distagon performs excellent as a 35mm shift lens and IMO better than any other lens in that focal range.

    Enclosed a 10.000+ pixel pano and a corner crop at f11 on a 5D2 with full horizontal 16mm shift from the Mirex. You can not get such shift movement by any other lens and you won't get this corner sharpness either.

    The second pair of pics shows the result of that lens at f11 on a Hartblei HCam with 80MP back with +/- 16mm shift (2-pic pano = 16.000+ pixel wide) and a crop of the right edge. You see that the image circle even allows some shift movement on a high resolution 54x40mm sensor and that the image has sufficient sharpness quite within the reach of the image circle. And the image stays quite free of color cast within the usable image circle.

    Btw the linear distortion of the lens can be corrected very well using the Alpa lens corrector plugin for PS.
    Last edited by chrismuc; 20th June 2013 at 00:27.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    I do not shoot much architectural work. However, I am friends with some long time pros that do high end work for pricey interior designers, and architectural firms. A few also teach at the Art School here.

    Interesting bunch.

    I've seen them work, mostly with tech cameras. I'll tell you, they are amazing to watch. I think they could set up and adjust these cameras with a blindfold on. As dedicated architectural shooters they can look at a scene and effortlessly set the camera to get what they creatively want ... Something Doug sort of hinted at in one of his posts above.

    Many really know lighting, and when shooting daytime interiors use low ISOs and the leaf shutter high sync speed to balance out broad bright ambient window light without NDing the windows.

    Funny how all the great Architectural photography got done before all these fab new tools were available. I guess they just knew what they were doing.

    In fact, these current shooters I know make it look deceptively easy. Obviously it is because they know their tools inside-out ... proving once again, that there is no better tool to realize a vision than practice and experience.

    Sorry, but it seems these days the question that most arises in so many fields of photography is "I want to do high-end, high-pay photography, shooting (fill in type of photography), but I want it to be immediate, effortless, and inexpensive".

    You have a nice DB (love those big real estate, fat pixel backs!), rent a tech camera and W/A lens for a month with the option to buy, and ... practice until it is second nature. Invest the time, before investing the money.

    -Marc

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    You have a nice DB (love those big real estate, fat pixel backs!), rent a tech camera and W/A lens for a month with the option to buy, and ... practice until it is second nature. Invest the time, before investing the money.

    -Marc
    This +1

    I also don't shoot architecture. But still in my view the solution is obvious. You already have a DB. You love the RZ so will probably find tech cameras great. So unless you want one, why bother with DSLRs at all? Two systems to support and two systems to upgrade. You will be fighting with limitations in either way. Go with the option that will make you happy, as happy will make good pictures and not some technical advantage that might be useful once a year.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Funny how all the great Architectural photography got done before all these fab new tools were available. I guess they just knew what they were doing.
    Marc, I don't think you are addressing the question. Of course we can all get to know our tools much better but the question is should the OP invest in system A or B and why, what are the pitfall of each.

    Referencing the days of film is of no significance because in all the years we shot film, not once did I walk about clicking here there and everywhere on a job thinking I knew my kit inside out, we shot polaroids. Polaroids are just like checking the screen on a digital back today. IMO in some ways film was easier to deal with than digital as it had more DR and highlight retention was much, much better.

    Not to shatter the illusion but when shooting interiors with a tech camera, unless it is something out of the ordinary, camera set up wise is mostly always the same. You set up most of your shots with a focus point you know will give the desired depth of focus and it stays set for the whole shoot - no need to change it. You dial in the amount of rise/fall for the look you're after and leave it set or it will be very similar for every shot. You pick a time of the day where the light is at its most constant brightness and you set your exposure for the window or internal fixed lighting and that stays the same for the rest of the shoot. The only thing that does change IMO is the artificial lighting you bring. You position your tungsten, strobes, Kinoflo's or LED panels etc to light the area as required for each shot.

    The camera setup side of it is easy IMO, its just if you can get the shots better with A or B camera system and that might be down yo you having to test each.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoRepse View Post
    You already have a DB. You love the RZ so will probably find tech cameras great. So unless you want one, why bother with DSLRs at all?
    Because if the OP shoots without lighting, wants a SK35XL for big movements he will need a centre filter. Centre filter adds 3 stops ND to each capture and if to avoid field curvature (a must for architecture) of the Schneider wides that means shooting at f11-f16. Long exposures need to be shot at base ISO, f16 at ISO50 with a 3 stop centre filter and you might as well use the iPhone.....
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    The work is really in the lighting. I did 3 high end houses with a Mamiiya AFD and a Mamiya 28mm on a P25 . There stunning but I used lighting and you have to make the camera level and move it vertically to get the composition you want. The tech cam solves that with rise and fall. One shot had 20 foot ceiling guess where the camera height was about 8ft. I have them here see if I can find it. Here all with a P25+ back a AFD III body and a mamiya 28mm lens. All at different camera heights to stay level with the scene. I wish I had the tech cam as it is so much easier to use rise and fall. Plus if you want to be higher or lower and recompose rise and fall is the answer. Here I am cheating as maybe the first shot I did not want to be as high on it but the only way to do that with a fixed lens is actually raise the cam. All these shots have lighting gear in them . Probably 5 lights total







    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Chris - can you provide a bit more detail on the Contax 35? I'm a bit confused by the image that appears to show an image circle that doesn't cover the sensor.

    Reason for asking is that I'm looking for a shift lens at that focal length for my HCam and IQ180.

    Thanks,

    Gerald.

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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    Thank you for this comprehensive information As far as I know, max shift on Canon 24mm lens is 12mm but max movement on Digital 35XL is 20mm on 36x48 sensor! So you mean the usable movements without introducing severe vignetting and corner softness would be around 15mm or even less?
    The Digitar 35 XL on 22 megapixel 36x48mm vs Canon TS-E 24mm on 24x36mm 21 megapixel would indeed be an interesting test. I cannot say which one which would win the corner sharpness test. My guess is that the Schneider will win for small shifts but that the Canon may win for large.

    This thread may be of interest to you:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/medium...rformance.html

    The problem is that Schneider is less than conservative concerning image circles, so you see a clear sharpness falloff within the claimed circle. If you are a really picky user you'd probably find that you don't want to shift more than ~10mm on the 35XL, which corresponds to ~7 mm on the 135 format. 22 megapixel will be more forgiving though, especially if stepping up to f/16. And as always, people's expectations differ, what one person may consider perfectly okay corners may disappoint someone else (that maybe expected that corners would be indistinguishable from the center as often seen in longer lenses), therefore you can hear many different things about the 35XL.

    One thing to note is that the Schneider has 0 distortion, which you can't have with retrofocus designs like the Canon (or indeed Rodenstocks). I think that has some value, although you of course can digitally correct these days.

    I don't think vignetting will be a problem with a center filter attached, but rather corner softness. For the low pixel count backs the color casts are relatively mild, but many of the modern backs require retrofocus designs to be able to shift any reasonable amount (I think that trend is unfortunate).

    With pancake camera I mean Alpa, Arca-Swiss RM3Di the Cambos, that is flat cameras with helicon focus that you can set at a specific distance rather than having to focus on the ground glass (as I do with my Linhof Techno which is a view camera). To really make use of that you should use a laser distance meter like a Leica Disto D5 and have high precision focusing rings so you can set exact distance. This is very useful when you need to focus on something flat like a wall. A view camera indoor with wide angles is a bit tough to focus, but some of us manage anyway . Some pancake camera lenses do not have those tightly spaced high precision markings on the focusing rings and then you don't get to enjoy the focus placement precision, which I think is the major feature of that camera type.

    In normal daylight you will have sub-second exposures at f/16 with the 35XL. Say if we compare the ISO25(?) DM22 at f/16 with 35XL centerfilter to a ISO100 5DMk2 f/11 TS-E24, I would guess we have about 4-5 stop difference. So when it comes to lower light situations there may be a significant issue. When the DM22 is up at 32 seconds the Canon makes the same exposure in 1-2 seconds.

    I have not actually been able to test the 35XL myself, just looked at a whole lot of user opinions and some test pictures. For my Aptus 75 I consider it to be "good enough" and it is on my "to buy"-list, but I will limit shifts to ~10mm which is alright for my shooting style anyway. If I was to use it for indoor shooting with a ISO25 back I would be a bit worried about maybe needing to shift more than 10mm quite often and having trouble with hitting the 30 second limit. So if you have the ability to test before buy certainly do. At the very least you should look at some test images.
    Last edited by torger; 11th December 2012 at 04:42.
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    Re: Architecture/Interior Design - Tech or that camera!

    The 35 XL is a excellent lens and I found very sharp to the corners , it works especially well with the older backs like the 9 micron and 7.8 micron backs. I have had a lot of success with it even on my IQ 160 and IQ 140. Maybe the tech cam bargain lens in wide angle. I sold it when I got like the 28mm Rodie but at the time i wish I still had it. I recommend the center filter for it just to even things out nicely to make it easier for correction.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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