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Lenses for Hartblei HCam and Alpa FPS

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Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Chris, thank you very much for the very informative posts. Keep the coming! May I ask, what application scenario did you buy the FPS for? Is ist because you wanted to use your old contax / leica lenses?

I ask because one could as well use those lenses on say aD800 and it appears to me that the sharpness in a lot of the displayed examples isnt on par with what real tech cam lenses provide.

Also, did you talk to the Alpa people, is there the possibility of a Leica S adapater in the future? In my view, this would make the FPS even more attractive.

I just still cannot fully understand why the FPS is hyped so much.

Just interested in your decision criteria!

Kindest regards

Paul
 
C

chrismuc

Member
Thx Paul. My main purpose of getting the FPS is to use shift lenses for architecture photography with a resolution of up to 80 MP. So I choose the Canon 17 TSE, 24 TSE, the Contax 645 35 (+ Mirex) and the Hasselblad CF 50f4 FLE, 100f3.5 and 180f4 (+ Mirex) lenses, all with Canon mount.

IMO the FPS and Hartblei cams are more useful and more flexible than conventional tech cams: The above mentioned long flange distance wide angle retrofocus lenses have several advantages compared to Schneider and Rodenstock lenses of equivalent focal lengths: They are much cheaper, don't need LCC files in post and one can use the same lenses on a Canon 5D/1D camera too.

Leica R: They are excellent, but actually I will sell most of them because I use them too rarely :-(

The Contax CY 85f1.2 is more an experimental toy. Normally I would use the 80f2 on my Contax 645 and the handling with mirror reflex viewfinder and autofocus is of course much easier and convenient.

I asked Alpa about developing and releasing a Leica S adapter. They are at least thinking about that idea but one issue to solve is the reverse-engineering of the aperture electronics (like they successfully did with the Canon EF mount).
 
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gerald.d

Well-known member
This is very interesting.

Chris - are you familiar with the Rodenstock 32HR? I'd be very interested to get some insight as to how the Contax performs against it.

I'm waiting for the Rodie in the FPS mount and very much looking forward to it. However, I've got a particular project that I'm planning that ideally needs a focal length around 32/35 that can be shifted on the FPS - obviously the 32HR in the SB17 FPS mount won't shift on the FPS (unless ALPA want to build me a custom mount with inbuilt shift!).

Problem is, for what I have in mind, I'd need to shoot at around f/5.6. Alternative is to use the 32HR unshifted, pitch the camera up, and fix the keystone in post.

Kind regards,

Gerald.

chrismuc said:
Just picked up my marvelous FPS at Alpa Zürich. Back mount Contax, front mount Canon.

First lens tests:

Contax 645 35f3.5 + Mirex shift adapter.
Gives 135 equivalent 23mm horizontal field of view and about 8mm of usable shift movement. No LCC required. Nicely sharp at f11-f13, recommended to correct geometrical distortion with the Alpa lens correction plug-in for PS.
Click to expand...
 
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chrismuc

Member
Hi Gerald. First week of June I'm back in China/Guangzhou and a friend has a Cambo with Contax back mount and a Rodenstock 32. I am also interested in that comparison, so we will do a little competition soon:)

The Contax 645 35 is really nice. But using it on the FPS needs a trick to set the aperture: Mount the lens on a Contax 645 cam, choose the aperture, press the aperture control button and unmount the lens. I normally put it to f11, but the lens is pretty good at f5.6 across the frame already.

I presented Alpa my (mechanical) Mirex shift adapter solution for the conversion from Contax 645 to Canon EF mount and they would be interested in offering a shift Contax 645 mount with aperture control. Alpa tried before to contact Bo-Ming from Conurus/Metabones because he did already the reverse engineeering of the Contax 645 mount to Canon EF. But until now he seems unfortunately not really interested in such a cooperation in order to develop a C645 shift adapter with electronic aperture control. I know Bo-Ming too, so I will also try to convince him to give in his knowledge for such a promising product.
 
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Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Chris, thank you for your thoughts. Indeed, working with LCCs can be tedious.

I really do hope they make an S lens adapter though, because that way one would gain access to the marvelous S lenses without having to use their expensive S2 body. An s 120 Macro on an IQ180 would be a dream in my view.

Did you try the TSE 17 already? do you like it?
 
Stefan Steib

Stefan Steib

Active member
A hint - the old Nikkor Micro 2,8/60mm AFD (not the new Gold Ring version !) does have a huge image circle, for all backs smaller than 80 Mpix it´s perfect, 80 Mpix are a bit vignetting. Used from maybe 200 € and up.
it´s also one of the sharpest lenses I know.

Regards
Stefan
 
C

chrismuc

Member
:: Gerald
I did a quick balcony shot with the Contax 645 35. Two pics +/- 10mm shifted sidewards and stiched together = 14.000 pixel wide.
Image circle about 80mm, sharp image circle about 75mm.
Some corner vignetting due to the small shift mechanism opening for the EF mount, the lens itself might have a larger image circle.
Two crops from left side and from bottom right corner. Sharpness holds up pretty well (at f13).

:: Paul
The 17TSE is also excellent. I did not use it yet on the FPS coz I don't have it with me. Image circle is only slightly larger than the IQ sensor, so only very little shift movements possible ... but the lens is already damn wide w/o shift :)
Ur right, Leica S lenses also would be a dream on IQ backs via the FPS.
 
Stefan Steib

Stefan Steib

Active member
Hi Christoph

The 17mm TSE has a larger image circle.
When we apply the TSE modification it gains about 2-3 mm all around.
The 24mm will gain even more- about 3-4mm

Regards
Stefan
 
C

chrismuc

Member
Another interesting finding: Like the Leica R 180f2.8 Apo, the Contax CY 135f2 covers full image circle for 54x40mm sensor, very cool:)

This allows 135 format 85mm angle of view pics with very shallow depth of field (comparable to a 85f1.3 lens at open aperture).

At f2 there is slight corner vignetting, at f8 quite non and sharpness is fine at about 80% of image area.

Enclosed a long distance test shot at f8 and a short distance pic at f2.
 
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MarkoRepse

Member
Really cool Chris! Love these results and very interesting, certainly looking forward to any more posts from you. Btw I use the Zeiss f1.2 on MF too and is amazing amazing amazing: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-digital-backs/35317-85mm-f1-2-medium-format.html As you say incredibly sharp wide open, but with the little "extension" I have I've found it does cover an IQ160 but barely, it depends more on the light and what focus distance is used. Going back to shooting a "regular" 80/2.8 wide open feels like everything is in focus :)
 
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chrismuc

Member
Hi Marko, yes I remember your thread and modified Mamiya 645 camera, really cool transformation. When I read it, I thought also to modify a Contax 645 to use with the Contax CY 85f1.2 lens. But then I decided to wait for the FPS to test the lens. And due to the shorter flange distance of the lens, it's difficult to convert the mount and one must dramatically shorten the mirror and still cannot focus to infinity. Let's see, maybe I still will try ...
 
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MarkoRepse

Member
chrismuc said:
Hi Marko, yes I remember your thread and modified Mamiya 645 camera, really cool transformation. When I read it, I thought also to modify a Contax 645 to use with the Contax CY 85f1.2 lens. But then I decided to wait for the FPS to test the lens. And due to the shorter flange distance of the lens, it's difficult to convert the mount and one must dramatically shorten the mirror and still cannot focus to infinity. Let's see, maybe I still will try ...
Click to expand...
Your solution is arguable more elegant with the FPS, no modifications necessary, can stop down, focus at infinity and work on your dslr too. But I expect it to be quite tricky to use shooting people, have you tried? I guess it would feel more like an 8x10 then...
 
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Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
I'm no technical expert, but does anyone here know if it theoretically would be possible to create a canon/nikon dslr adapter for the backside of the Alpa FPS?

Wouldn't it be cool to use say a D800 with live view and in front a technical camera lens such as a Rodenstock 32 and then stitch afterwards?

I never understood whe the cambo 35 ultima system wasnt popular?

Any thoughts on this?
 
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MarkoRepse

Member
Paul Spinnler said:
I'm no technical expert, but does anyone here know if it theoretically would be possible to create a canon/nikon dslr adapter for the backside of the Alpa FPS?

Wouldn't it be cool to use say a D800 with live view and in front a technical camera lens such as a Rodenstock 32 and then stitch afterwards?

I never understood whe the cambo 35 ultima system wasnt popular?

Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
I actually quite doubt this would be possible. The problem I see lies in the fact that any DSLR has a mirror box therefore the sensor lies much further from the lens than a DB. Its still theoretically possible, but the only thing that would work are long lenses with a precisely modified barrel length. Wides wouldn't work at all...
 
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gerald.d

Well-known member
MarkoRepse said:
I actually quite doubt this would be possible. The problem I see lies in the fact that any DSLR has a mirror box therefore the sensor lies much further from the lens than a DB. Its still theoretically possible, but the only thing that would work are long lenses with a precisely modified barrel length. Wides wouldn't work at all...
Click to expand...
Well all you have to do to get around that problem is "simply" remove the sensor and live view electronics from the camera body and slap an Alpa mount on the front of it.

How hard could that be? :)
 
malmac

malmac

Member
I have not had the pleasure of using either of these cameras and while I like the idea I still struggle with the image quality when compared to a technical camera (Alpa, Arca Swiss, Cambo).

I see some folk saying how happy they are and other being cautious.
If someone can direct me to some full resolution IQ180 files taken with Canon TS lenses and the same image taken with a comparable Rodie or SK lens that would be appreciated.

Maybe the image quality is close, I don't know until I see it with my own eyes at full resolution on my work computer.

Any help would be appreciated.


Mal
 
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wallpaperviking

Member
Hi,
I have stumbled across this thread after researching lenses to get for Hartblei's new adapter for the Sony A7R

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/50536-new-hcam-ts-master-14-24mm.html

I am looking to use this system to create a "poor mans MFDB" through stitching.

I noticed that the link to some of the images in this thread are broken and would be really curious to see both them and other examples that may have developed..

For example, I see the Canon 50mm 1.2 on here but cannot see what it shows?

Ok, thanks a lot in advance!
 
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