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Thread: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

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    Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    1) Was just ordering my Epson 3800 from The Camera Store (well respected Calgary Alberta shop) when noticed on their blog that they've been told by Hassy that there are a limited number of V lenses remaining in stock for 'new' order.

    This may not be news (or far from surprising), but looks like the the venerable Hassy is stepping up to the sacrificial altar of progress.

    2) Also - anyone received the latest copy of Victor yet? May be my imagination, but seems to be taking forever to arrive.

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    Senior Member atanabe's Avatar
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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    I would not doubt that Hasselblad would like to end the V system. The lense agreement with Zeiss must be very costly as the volume has dropped. This could explain why they bundled the latest 500 CWD with the 40mm at the same price of the 80mm.

    Manufacturing of the H system is done by Fuji in Japan including lenses. This is much more cost effective than running a small hand assembly line for the V system. I am sure that demand is way way down for new V system purchases. You can judge this by the price of used V system lenses and bodies. While the price of H system bodies and lenses are holding their own.

    Cheers,

    Al
    Al Tanabe my website https://www.altanabe.com

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Quote Originally Posted by atanabe View Post

    Manufacturing of the H system is done by Fuji in Japan including lenses.
    No it isn't.

    The lenses are assembled in Japan with Swedish built shutters. The bodies are assembled in Sweden.

    Nick-T

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick-T View Post
    No it isn't.

    The lenses are assembled in Japan with Swedish built shutters. The bodies are assembled in Sweden.

    Nick-T
    I stand corrected, so then Fuji manufactures the components and Hasselblad assembles the bodies and lenses in Sweden then ships it back to Japan for Fuji to rebadge as the GX645AF?
    http://fujifilm.jp/personal/filmcame...5af/index.html

    Either way, the H is the direction that Hasselblad is going. I don't think that Zeiss would want to support R&D on a shrinking market for lenses. Without lenses, the V system has no long term future in the NEW market.

    My hat is off to Hasselblad for at least producing the CFV back for the V which prolongs the life of the V system.

    Cheers,
    Al
    Al Tanabe my website https://www.altanabe.com

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    I don't think the CFV back prolongs the V mount bodies because there are many backs made for the V mount. Phase one, Leaf, Ixpress, Sinar etc.

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Goh View Post
    I don't think the CFV back prolongs the V mount bodies because there are many backs made for the V mount. Phase one, Leaf, Ixpress, Sinar etc.
    However, the CFV was the first "less expensive" back that was made specifically for the V series, and the ONLY one that works on a 200 series V camera.

    It cosmetically matches the V cameras, and more importantly doesn't require any sync cord from lens to back like all other brands do.

    It definitely had an impact on interest in the V system ... enough so that Hassey brought out the CFV-II, and continues to offer the 503CW.

    Zeiss is another matter. But getting lenses for a 500 series camera is not an issue, nor is likely to be an issue.

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    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Here is what I heard and saw:
    Hasselblad V System Lenses After many great years with our V System, we need to inform you that we have only a limited number of lenses left, and that these lenses may be the last V System lenses we will be able to supply you.\
    The available lenses are: Planar CFI 80, Lens Distagon CFE 4/40 MM IF, Lens Distagon CFI 4/50MM, Lens Sonnar CFI 4/150 MM, Lens Planar CFI3,5/100MM, Lens Distagon CFI 3.5/60.

    If you wish to order any of the above lenses, you are advised to inform us as quickly as possible, and order these for immediate delivery. Quantities are
    limited, and we may not be able to ship you all the lenses that you require, but we will try to accommodate you the best way possible.

    We will still manufacture the 503 CW as long as there is a demand for this product, and from

    Zeiss it will still be possible to get the Classic line lenses

    Makes sense since their focus is on the H line with software correction for lenses.

    Hope everyone who celebrated the holiday had a good one!

    L
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    .......
    Makes sense since their focus is on the H line with software correction for lenses.

    Hope everyone who celebrated the holiday had a good one!

    L
    I know many do it and my M8 does it too and its probably good for the IQ but still I dont like idea of "software correction" . For some reason I allways think that software correction adds something to an image which was not in it in the first step. Makes the image more artificial and less "real" for me.
    Just my personal mental problem
    I am sure the H system is a great tool, but why could they not give it a little "sexier" design?

    Now if the V-System will not be developped any further - I would think that Rollei and the Hy6-system would be the only "modern" system with the 6x6 square format.
    Do you expect that this means there is not much interest in square and also in WLF-photography any more? And if so, why do you guys think it would be the case? (Personally I see quit some appealing things in WLF and in a 6x6 format.)

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I know many do it and my M8 does it too and its probably good for the IQ but still I don't like idea of "software correction" . For some reason I always think that software correction adds something to an image which was not in it in the first step. Makes the image more artificial and less "real" for me.
    Just my personal mental problem
    I am sure the H system is a great tool, but why could they not give it a little "sexier" design?

    Now if the V-System will not be developed any further - I would think that Rollei and the Hy6-system would be the only "modern" system with the 6x6 square format.
    Do you expect that this means there is not much interest in square and also in WLF-photography any more? And if so, why do you guys think it would be the case? (Personally I see quit some appealing things in WLF and in a 6x6 format.)
    Software corrections ... like white balance? Like sizing? Like sharpening? Like B&W conversions? Like vignette correction? None of that stuff comes out of the camera 100% by itself either.

    "Sexier Design" is in the eye of the beholder. I like my H gear ... it matches my shooting style ... and my hair

    I think there is still interest in the 6X6 square format with WL finder ... but 645 pulled ahead long ago due to digital backs and sensor sizes. So, the question is how much demand for a new 6X6 system is there when the Hy6 is already there?

    To compete with the Hy6, Hasselblad would have had to re-engineer the V line, and under the circumstances of their downsizing, focus on integrated digital solutions, and dubious levels of demand for such a pricy new product, it's easy to understand the business reasoning. Use designs (503CW) you have until demand evaporates completely.

    It may also become questionable to use older lens designs as digital resolution and technology relentlessly advances ... now 60meg .... then 80 or 100 meg? Digital view camera lenses, the more recent "D" AF offerings from Mamiya, and Leica's totally new S2 lens line point out that trend. Sales of the V lenses has to be dismal unless "bundled" with a CFV/503CW ... there are so many pristine used ones at half the price or less. And the lenses were built so well they just keep going, and going, and going.

    Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my V gear and have most the Zeiss V optics. It's a joy to use and still produces what I need from that type of shooting experience. And if it all stopped being produced I wouldn't worry a lot about service, since most of it is mechanical and easy to get repaired. Easier by a mile compared to any "electronic" based system.
    Last edited by fotografz; 28th November 2008 at 02:43.

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Quote Originally Posted by atanabe View Post
    I stand corrected, so then Fuji manufactures the components and Hasselblad assembles the bodies and lenses in Sweden then ships it back to Japan for Fuji to rebadge as the GX645AF?
    http://fujifilm.jp/personal/filmcame...5af/index.html

    Either way, the H is the direction that Hasselblad is going. I don't think that Zeiss would want to support R&D on a shrinking market for lenses. Without lenses, the V system has no long term future in the NEW market.

    My hat is off to Hasselblad for at least producing the CFV back for the V which prolongs the life of the V system.

    Cheers,
    Al

    It is a common misconception that Fuji has more involvement in the H system than they actually do.

    So to correct this please read the following...

    Fuji has absolutely no involvement on any level with the H system body. The software, hardware, R&D, you name it(!) comes out of Hasselblad in Sweden. The H bodies are all produced in Sweden. Fuji manufactures NO parts for the body.

    The lens design is a partnership between the two companies. We have our own lens designer who is responsible for the optical elements (no pun intended). Fuji very much assists with the mechanical aspects of design.

    The central lens shutter is designed and built in Sweden.

    Fuji constructs the HVD90X viewfinder purely because they have the optical machinery to build this. However, the design including all the hardware is again from Sweden.

    The Fuji GX645 is also made in Sweden and shipped to Fuji.

    Fuji does however make the film back!

    If you flip over the camera then you will see 'Made in Japan' on the viewfinder. 'Made in Sweden' on the body and 'Made in Denmark' on the digital sensor unit. Final assembly and calibration is all done in Denmark.

    Best Regards,




    David Grover
    Hasselblad A/S

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I know many do it and my M8 does it too and its probably good for the IQ but still I dont like idea of "software correction" . For some reason I allways think that software correction adds something to an image which was not in it in the first step. Makes the image more artificial and less "real" for me.
    Just my personal mental problem
    If software enhancement allows us to build cheaper, lighter lenses with unique and outstanding performance then who would argue?

    Example...

    The HCD28 was designed with software in mind. Therefore in the specifications of optical design we can easily make the lens sharp edge to edge and know that we can remove the distortion in Phocus.

    This is no easy task as you have to know what the lens was doing at capture... Aperture AND focussed distance. This recorded by the software in the H3D - a benefit of integration of all parts.

    This is then related to 57,000+ lens data tables in Phocus to perform the correction.

    This gives us an outstanding lens on edge to edge performance, NO distortion and lighter and lower cost.

    You can apply the same logic to the new zoom lens.

    I'm all for that.

    Best Regards,



    David Grover
    Hasselblad A/S

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Sounds like it may be time (if you're a V shooter) to pick up any of those sought-after lenses you've been eyeballing.

    As an aside - the latest issue of Victor went to press a week ago and is, as they say, "in the mail".

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    If software enhancement allows us to build cheaper, lighter lenses with unique and outstanding performance then who would argue?

    Example...

    The HCD28 was designed with software in mind. Therefore in the specifications of optical design we can easily make the lens sharp edge to edge and know that we can remove the distortion in Phocus.

    This is no easy task as you have to know what the lens was doing at capture... Aperture AND focussed distance. This recorded by the software in the H3D - a benefit of integration of all parts.

    This is then related to 57,000+ lens data tables in Phocus to perform the correction.

    This gives us an outstanding lens on edge to edge performance, NO distortion and lighter and lower cost.

    You can apply the same logic to the new zoom lens.

    I'm all for that.

    Best Regards,



    David Grover
    Hasselblad A/S
    David,
    maybe I was not choosing the right words. I am convinced that post-correction in software makes sense - its more of a mental thing for me to accept that things are done in software which were done in hardware in earlier times.
    And there is something where I am allways afraid that thing are "added" to the image which was not there. I feel parts of the image are calculated and istead of being directly exposed. Again, I do not doubt the final result and that it makes sense.

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    From the Leica S2 introduction. I wonder if this was a dig as Hasselblad?

    "The optic calculation incorporates all the factors and requirements of digital technology, meaning that software to correct image artifacts becomes superfluous."

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    I read that thinking the same thing... All's fair as they say.

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    When my printer refuses to print a shot made with my HC28 and DAC - then I will be concerned about Hasselblad's inability to make 'real' lenses that don't 'need' digital 'correction'.

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    speaking as one of those die hard V-system lovers, I would kill for a near full frame cf-v back for my 503. 40x40 is not doing it for me on wide angle.

    Is 50mmx50mm not possible? the 1.5x crop is too far. and square is very useful still.

    signed,
    waiting in brooklyn for my hassy to be useful again, sigh.

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    When my printer refuses to print a shot made with my HC28 and DAC - then I will be concerned about Hasselblad's inability to make 'real' lenses that don't 'need' digital 'correction'.


    Perfect.

    Exactly, cut the Bull and get right to it Peter

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    From the Leica S2 introduction. I wonder if this was a dig as Hasselblad?

    "The optic calculation incorporates all the factors and requirements of digital technology, meaning that software to correct image artifacts becomes superfluous."
    What it means is: "Gentlemen, warm up your wallets."

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    That maybe very true but still there is no way to avoid barrel distortion in a super wide retrofocus design. So I do have to questions Leica's statement there. There just has to be some. Hassy and Phase both correct for it with our 28mm lenses and on the Phase side it does a nice job and from what I have seen so does Hassy. Not sure you can get around the distortion factor. Now maybe there talking CA so who knows until we see them but like Marc said warm up your wallets . I say invest in a really nice ski mask and a fast car.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    That maybe very true but still there is no way to avoid barrel distortion in a super wide retrofocus design. So I do have to questions Leica's statement there. There just has to be some. Hassy and Phase both correct for it with our 28mm lenses and on the Phase side it does a nice job and from what I have seen so does Hassy. Not sure you can get around the distortion factor. Now maybe there talking CA so who knows until we see them but like Marc said warm up your wallets . I say invest in a really nice ski mask and a fast car.
    Thanks Guy, I blew coffee out my nose on that one.

    "Really nice ski mask" ...

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    A really nice one, that way there talking about what a really cool ski mask than your get away.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Well, I've got to point out that Leica also said there would never be a digital M either, as it was too difficult to overcome the sensor limitations due to the rear of the lens being so close to the plane of the sensor.... but they accomplished that.

    My first reaction would be to wait and see just what their engineering magicians can pull off. My second reaction was after seeing the MTF specs on these lenses.... Wow! My third reaction was the same as Guy's, time to warm up the ski mask, and try to find a bank that still has any money!

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Yea and not one that is going bankrupt like us. LOL
    2 wrongs won't make a right here.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Hassy V On Way Out? Victor Question

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    David,
    maybe I was not choosing the right words. I am convinced that post-correction in software makes sense - its more of a mental thing for me to accept that things are done in software which were done in hardware in earlier times.
    And there is something where I am allways afraid that thing are "added" to the image which was not there. I feel parts of the image are calculated and istead of being directly exposed. Again, I do not doubt the final result and that it makes sense.
    All parts of of the image are calculated as 2/3rds of any single shot image is pure interpolation! So the addition of lens corrections is not so bad.


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