Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: P25, 1Ds3, 5D2 Comparison

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    543
    Post Thanks / Like

    P25, 1Ds3, 5D2 Comparison

    http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/...howtopic=29821

    At least on the web samples look pretty close to each other. To my eyes the P25 is best but for an amount close to nothing.
    What are your comments. What flaws do you see in this comparison
    Thanks
    Eduardo

  2. #2
    jmvdigital
    Guest

    Re: P25, 1Ds3, 5D2 Comparison

    What's ironic is that I have the opposite opinion. I have a distaste for the images I was getting with my 1DsIII. Probably due mostly to the Canon optics. But still, the difference between the 1DsIII and my P30+ (the Canon's replacement) is not even close. The P30+ kills.

    Personally, I find these comparison tests somewhat pointless. The entire "experiment" is never controlled to remove enough variables, and you can often skew the results however you please depending on your own opinions.

  3. #3
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: P25, 1Ds3, 5D2 Comparison

    if you use these different cameras over the course of many shoots, in various shooting conditions, the differences become glaringly obvious.

    Nikon, Canon, Sony, Leica, etc. are all very good 35mm DSLRs ... however, use them over a period of time next to a MFD system and you really do see how pointless these comparisons are.

    But, hey, if it warms the behinds of the MFD makers enough to lower prices ... then let 'em rip.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    California/Thailand
    Posts
    1,206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P25, 1Ds3, 5D2 Comparison

    The unfortunate thing about such comparisons (aside from those already mentioned) is that they tend to fuel misinformation propagation. For example, in this comparison the O.P. acknowledges the imperfection of the "test", though many won't even realize that the best conversion software was apparently not used for the P25 files. Looking at the P25 file of the Chivas Regal still life is an utter misrepresentation of the back's capabilities IMO. I don't know the lens used, but I suspect that it has much more potential than what is represented.

    My P25+ files with Mamiya lenses blow my 1Ds3 test files away (I know, preachin' to the choir here). They're all good cameras and should be used when each is the most appropriate tool, but then one should also seek to use the best conversion software for each if best results from each is the goal.

  5. #5
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: P25, 1Ds3, 5D2 Comparison

    Banging head. I HATE tests that completely misrepresent these things. At least the folks here just know better is all i can say.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    543
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P25, 1Ds3, 5D2 Comparison

    To my understanding, this is an honest atempt to compare IQ from truly different formats.
    I know by watching closely over the internet that DMF always beats dslr's. It's my belief that it is not the 16bit subject but the bigger size of the sensor capturing the image. Micro contrast is a tad better. "Regional" dynamic range always shows better even if all around DR appears to be the same. 3D effects is usually seen in MF, a lot less in FF dslr's. Let's wait for truly professional real life work from these cameras to see. If 3D effects is half that of MF, I may end up burying my desire for a DMF back, at least till I win the Lotto.

    Thing is, new top of the line dslr's are aproaching (or met) low count pixel DMF backs for a fraction of the money (as predicted). Other than that (imho) is denial.

    I can't justify myself buying a 22mp DMF anymore. A 39mp back or better, well... that must be another different story.

    Eduardo


    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Banging head. I HATE tests that completely misrepresent these things. At least the folks here just know better is all i can say.

  7. #7
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: P25, 1Ds3, 5D2 Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    To my understanding, this is an honest atempt to compare IQ from truly different formats.
    I know by watching closely over the internet that DMF always beats dslr's. It's my belief that it is not the 16bit subject but the bigger size of the sensor capturing the image. Micro contrast is a tad better. "Regional" dynamic range always shows better even if all around DR appears to be the same. 3D effects is usually seen in MF, a lot less in FF dslr's. Let's wait for truly professional real life work from these cameras to see. If 3D effects is half that of MF, I may end up burying my desire for a DMF back, at least till I win the Lotto.

    Thing is, new top of the line dslr's are aproaching (or met) low count pixel DMF backs for a fraction of the money (as predicted). Other than that (imho) is denial.

    I can't justify myself buying a 22mp DMF anymore. A 39mp back or better, well... that must be another different story.

    Eduardo
    I think if money is the issue (return on investment), then "cut to the chase" ... that's the comparison criteria, not image quality. It is quite reasonable to say that one of the higher meg DSLRs is "enough" for your applications. In some cases, it's enough for my applications also.

    However, size matters and experience does count as opposed to being "denial" ... since I have and use the smallest MFD back currently available ... AND have, or have used, the current crop of high meg DSLRs, I can say that rule is still in effect ... size matters ... not just sensor size, but also the larger pixel pitch that is inherent with the larger MFD sensors.

    My 16 meg CFV-II back still produces better IQ than my 22 meg Canon 1DsMKIII did, or the new 24.6 meg FF Sony A900 I just secured ... a 22 meg MFD back would produce even better IQ since the sensor is larger with the same pixel pitch as the CFV.

    I also strongly suspect that some of these 35mm digital cameras are beginning to outstrip the lens systems of the camera companies making them ... and paying for a mega 35mm DSLR is starting to provide dimminishing returns. I sure felt that way about Canon ... and I believe THAT was the reason so many people spent a fortune securing Leica APO optics for their 1 series Canons ... only to lose all the benefits of a modern AF DSLR.

    The only reason I now have a high meg Sony A900 is because of the stellar Zeiss Auto Focus optics featuring all kinds of exoctic glass and multiple ASPH elements. Other A900 users have already noted that the legecy lenses, which were fine with Minolta film cameras or crop frame, lower meg Alpha cameras, fall short on the A900.
    Last edited by fotografz; 29th November 2008 at 02:34.

  8. #8
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: P25, 1Ds3, 5D2 Comparison

    The 22mpx MF backs are more in line with the 39mpx backs and not backwards. I have done these tests against the 39mpx sensors and there are very comparable but not the other way around. Bigger is better in almost all counts. The 1dsMKIII is not even close to a 22mpx back what makes one think a 5DII will. Frankly they can even hot rod a 5DII and it still will not be close to the 22 mpx backs. There is no denial i have tried all this stuff and owned almost all of them. No offense against the 150 CFI hassy lens he used but it is a good lens but not a great one. I will be testing a P25, P45 and the new P65 next week. I will bet you right now watch how close the P25 is to the P45 in those tests we will post next week. It's almost impossible to do a cross platform test and add to that different converters . You really need to know how to do them but I give the guy credit for trying but he missed the mark. The 22mpx shots look like crap and owning one i know how much better one is. Keep your eyes peeled next week for Jack and my test with the three backs. Same camera, same lens and same software. I have done this before with the P25,P30 and P45 and watch how close this all comes in.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    543
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P25, 1Ds3, 5D2 Comparison

    Yey ih!! I agree with you. There must be something wrong with the pp, the focus or with the lens he used. I expected the 5D2 to really improve over the older one and it did, but for no accounts able to match DMF quality.
    Eduardo

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •