Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: LCC and filters

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    CA, US
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like

    LCC and filters

    Gurus,

    On a tech camera, after taking a picture with a filter on, e.g., gnd, should I remove the filter before taking the LCC picture? I figure I should..

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32 31' 37.06" N, 111 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    I routinely use 3 different lens one of which has a center filter. My workflow always includes the center filter. The other two I use a filter sparingly and depends on the filter.

    Don

    Bottom line is you want to get as good a LCC as you can whether it's with or without your filter.
    Just my 2 worth.
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ

  3. #3
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Carmel/Tucson
    Posts
    2,355
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    I would think you would take the LCC with the filter on in most cases. My thinking is if the filter you use adds any sort of cast, then application of the LCC taken with the filter in place, should remove that cast as well.

    I usually add an approx stop of exposure when shooting the LCC trying to get a nice central peak exposure on the histogram.

    This seems to work well for me, but would love to hear more theory from the tech cam gurus...

    ken

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    55
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    I generally take Grad filters OFF before shooting an LCC.

    Otherwise, it takes the Grad effect out of the shot, and makes what i wanted darkened, too bright !

    As I use LEE filters, I generally just pop the filterholder off to use the LCC. Painfull, but necessary.

    Regards

    Mark
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  5. #5
    Senior Member stngoldberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    newport, RI
    Posts
    808
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: LCC and filters

    Quote Originally Posted by TLiu View Post
    Gurus,

    On a tech camera, after taking a picture with a filter on, e.g., gnd, should I remove the filter before taking the LCC picture? I figure I should..
    Take the GND off

    Stanley

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    CA, US
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlyn View Post
    I generally take Grad filters OFF before shooting an LCC.

    Otherwise, it takes the Grad effect out of the shot, and makes what i wanted darkened, too bright !

    As I use LEE filters, I generally just pop the filterholder off to use the LCC. Painfull, but necessary.

    Regards

    Mark
    Thanks. That was my thinking too, but it also makes stitching a pain, having to take a picture, take the filter off, take the LCC picture, then remount the filter, shift, repeat, etc., and remember to put the filter to the approximately same place.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    CA, US
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlyn View Post
    I generally take Grad filters OFF before shooting an LCC.

    Otherwise, it takes the Grad effect out of the shot, and makes what i wanted darkened, too bright !

    As I use LEE filters, I generally just pop the filterholder off to use the LCC. Painfull, but necessary.

    Regards

    Mark
    What about the center gray filter then? Shall it be off too?

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Near Brussels, Belgium, Europe
    Posts
    541
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    Quote Originally Posted by TLiu View Post
    Thanks. That was my thinking too, but it also makes stitching a pain, having to take a picture, take the filter off, take the LCC picture, then remount the filter, shift, repeat, etc., and remember to put the filter to the approximately same place.
    Using a 10x10 opal LCC card that can be placed in the Lee filter holder should avoid taking the filter holder off (I did not test it). Making all the stitched pictures first then making the LCC pictures could also make the process easier in that case.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Near Brussels, Belgium, Europe
    Posts
    541
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    Quote Originally Posted by TLiu View Post
    What about the center gray filter then? Shall it be off too?
    I don't think so, the center filter is here to help having a more even exposure on your shot. An LCC shot taken with a center filter in place will give you a clean shot to cancel the color cast without having to deal with exposure compensation (that Capture 1 does adding noise in the picture).

  10. #10
    Senior Member Pemihan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,115
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: LCC and filters

    Shoot all the images with the filter on first, remove the filter and shoot the sequence again with the LCC.

    Thats how I do it, shoot all the images and then the LCC's in the same order.

    Just stick to the same order every time...

    Peter



    Quote Originally Posted by TLiu View Post
    Thanks. That was my thinking too, but it also makes stitching a pain, having to take a picture, take the filter off, take the LCC picture, then remount the filter, shift, repeat, etc., and remember to put the filter to the approximately same place.
    Last edited by Pemihan; 18th January 2013 at 04:34.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  11. #11
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: LCC and filters

    if you have a center filter then you leave it on - think of it as almost a permanent attachment. LCC with it on.

    Any other fiter, which for me is a LEE neutral density fulll or grad, I remove when shooting the LCC.

    Remember what the LCC is - LENS colour cast with your sensor - not image colour cast.
    You are correcting for the light fall off of the lens and any fall off/colour shifts caused by the angle of the light hitting the sensor. (Dust removal is a nice additionalbenefit too),

    Regarding LCC exposure, I come across two schools of thought on this one. I was taught to get an LCC close to mid tone or right around the middle of the histogram which may require adding a stop or so of exposure time. I've seen also a recommendation to shoot brighter LCC in videos by a couple of well known Alpa tech shooters who own LuLa.
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 18th January 2013 at 11:43.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  12. #12
    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    Exposing the LCC to the right as far as possible gives you slightly more data. Since the LCC code is using relatively wide averages of tonality I have found that the "spec'ed" mid-tone works as well especially concerning 16bit files.

    Even on a long exposure LCC requiring a higher ISO I have not noticed LCC increasing noise or banding in the corrected exposure.

    Has anyone else seen any noise related artifacts from LCC that are significantly worse than bumping exposure in post?

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,069
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    83

    Re: LCC and filters

    I find this simple rule works for me...

    1. If using a filter to create an "intended" effect (ND, colour, polarizer etc.) then remove it for LCC. You don't want the LCC to remove the effect you are trying to introduce into the capture.

    2. If using a filter to filter to remove any "unintended" effects (casts, falloff etc.) keep it on for the LCC. Essentially the filter is "normalizing" the effects to some extent, and the LCC can hopefully take care of the rest. This would be for CF, hoods/shades, etc.

    Not sure if I have explained myself well here, but hope it helps.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    55
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    I tend to shoot pano's first, with the shifts. then go back and shoot the LCC's for the pano.

    Any center filter I leave ON for the LCC. (Not that I currently use one, not even on the HR 32)

    It is only Grads/Lee filters I take off., inlcuding ND (for example, I see no point in leaving the 10 Stopper on and taking a loooooong shot just to do an LCC).

    Most of my Pano's are left/center/right, I tend not to shift rise/fall during the shooting itself. Rise/Fall is used for Framing the shot.

    If I am doing a vertical pano, then the reverse is obviously true.


    My biggest problem, is remembering to shoot the LCC when working fast.

    Regards

    Mark.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  15. #15
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32 31' 37.06" N, 111 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    Agree with the thoughts of leaving the CF (if used) on otherwise remove any other filter prior to the LCC.

    Don
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ

  16. #16
    New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cold Lake, Alberta CA
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    The whole reason for creating a LCC is to equalize the*light over the whole image. If you create the LCC with the filter on then the LCC would remove the*effects of the filter. IMO

  17. #17
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: LCC and filters

    For effect filters I'd agree.

    For centre filters the whole point is to balance out the light levels as much as possible in an analog manner first and then apply any subsequent correction afterwards. If you were to do an LCC without centre filter and apply it to a shot WITH a centre filter you will over compensate for the light fall off. The centre filter shouldn't have any effect really on colour though, just the light fall off.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  18. #18
    Senior Member stngoldberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    newport, RI
    Posts
    808
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: LCC and filters

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Agree with the thoughts of leaving the CF (if used) on otherwise remove any other filter prior to the LCC.

    Don
    Don is 100% correct

    Stanley

  19. #19
    Senior Member alajuela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Shanghai / Miami
    Posts
    552
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    124

    Re: LCC and filters

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    For effect filters I'd agree.

    For centre filters the whole point is to balance out the light levels as much as possible in an analog manner first and then apply any subsequent correction afterwards. If you were to do an LCC without centre filter and apply it to a shot WITH a centre filter you will over compensate for the light fall off. The centre filter shouldn't have any effect really on colour though, just the light fall off.

    My understanding is the same CF is there to equalize light fall off. So an LCC is done with CF on. Also if you use a Polarizer and / or ND filter it goes like this

    Lens - CF - ( Pol - ND) - LCC

    The exception is an ND Grad (since you want the light falloff) then it would look like this.

    Lens - CF - LCC -- then shoot with the NDGrad after the LCC is taken

    Anyone disagree?

    Thanks

    Phil

  20. #20
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32 31' 37.06" N, 111 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    Hi Phil - not entirely sure I understand your equation.

    If you shoot a lens requiring a center filter then shoot the LCC with the filter in place.

    If you are shooting using any other filter other than a CF then shoot the LCC without the filter.

    Of course you can also be anal and also shoot an LCC with the effects filter and see the difference between the two and see which works better. As anal as I am I never once thought about doing this until just now.

    Don
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ

  21. #21
    Senior Member alajuela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Shanghai / Miami
    Posts
    552
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    124

    Re: LCC and filters

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Hi Phil - not entirely sure I understand your equation.

    If you shoot a lens requiring a center filter then shoot the LCC with the filter in place.

    If you are shooting using any other filter other than a CF then shoot the LCC without the filter.

    Of course you can also be anal and also shoot an LCC with the effects filter and see the difference between the two and see which works better. As anal as I am I never once thought about doing this until just now.

    Don
    Hi Don

    Well - I yield, I think the CF is a no brainer. Otherwise you negate it affects and purposes. The next step in the logic was - if you are applying a filter that is consistent over the entire lens / capture plane, then the LCC should be short over this - especially if the polarizer should introduce a color case. - I need to think more, and check when I get back home
    Thanks
    Phil

  22. #22
    Senior Member alajuela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Shanghai / Miami
    Posts
    552
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    124

    Re: LCC and filters

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Hi Phil - not entirely sure I understand your equation.

    If you shoot a lens requiring a center filter then shoot the LCC with the filter in place.

    If you are shooting using any other filter other than a CF then shoot the LCC without the filter.

    Of course you can also be anal and also shoot an LCC with the effects filter and see the difference between the two and see which works better. As anal as I am I never once thought about doing this until just now.

    Don
    Hi Don

    Well - I yield, I think the CF is a no brainer. Otherwise you negate it's affects and purposes. The next step in the logic was - if you are applying a filter that is consistent over the entire lens / capture plane, then the LCC should be shot over this - especially if the polarizer should introduce a color case. - I need to think more, and check when I get back home
    Thanks
    Phil

  23. #23
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: LCC and filters

    Actually the polarizer was the one filter I also wondered about. I don't use them at all with my technical camera so I haven't run in to the combination before - maybe that's an experiment for the weekend.

    Unlike other filters, the polarizer does affect the character of the light hitting the sensor so does it affect the lens colour cast? If so, then this one might benefit from being left on the camera when shooting an LCC.

    Thoughts?
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  24. #24
    Senior Member alajuela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Shanghai / Miami
    Posts
    552
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    124

    Re: LCC and filters

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Actually the polarizer was the one filter I also wondered about. I don't use them at all with my technical camera so I haven't run in to the combination before - maybe that's an experiment for the weekend.

    Unlike other filters, the polarizer does affect the character of the light hitting the sensor so does it affect the lens colour cast? If so, then this one might benefit from being left on the camera when shooting an LCC.

    Thoughts?
    Hi Graham
    This was my original thought also. That the LCC is to compensate for light fall off and color caste. Therefore if you want to remove any light fall off or color caste that a filter might impart on the image - then shot the LCC with that filter on the lens. I understand some people don't want do this with ND - but the ND can color caste so I guess they work it out in post or convert to B&W.
    Anyway interested in what u come up with.
    Thanks
    Phil

  25. #25
    Member Jacob CHP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    Quote Originally Posted by alajuela View Post
    ...
    Anyway interested in what u come up with.
    Me too!

  26. #26
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    k-hawinkler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The "Land of Enchantment"
    Posts
    3,303
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: LCC and filters

    If I use a rangefinder lens with a hood and a corner spared out I tape up the corner for the LCC shot. Otherwise light from behind reflects of the LCC material and gives an asymmetrical correction.
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 18th October 2014 at 12:36.
    With best regards, K-H.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •