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Thread: I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

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    I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

    It was just announced today that the Hasselblad H4D 40 and H5D 50 are been shipped at the end of the month.

    I'll be getting a loan of an IQ160 and Arca Swiss RM3Di next week. Hopefully a H5D 50 will be sent to me at the same time so I can compare cameras under same lighting conditions. I'll have the H5D 60 to test at the end of February.

    Can't wait to play with them. I'll get the Rodenstock 40mm also. I'm dying to see how my Schneider 28mm fares on the Hasselblad in comparision to the tests here on getdpi.com with the IQ160. I would dearly love to keep using this lens. It will also be interesting to see how the Schneider 35mm xl and 47mm fare with the Hasselblads.

    It will be the first time I'll be using the Phase One since a go with the P25 (I think) on my first ever shoot with a view camera.

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    Re: I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Enda Cavanagh View Post
    It was just announced today that the Hasselblad H4D 40 and H5D 50 are been shipped at the end of the month.

    I'll be getting a loan of an IQ160 and Arca Swiss RM3Di next week. Hopefully a H5D 50 will be sent to me at the same time so I can compare cameras under same lighting conditions. I'll have the H5D 60 to test at the end of February.

    Can't wait to play with them. I'll get the Rodenstock 40mm also. I'm dying to see how my Schneider 28mm fares on the Hasselblad in comparision to the tests here on getdpi.com with the IQ160. I would dearly love to keep using this lens. It will also be interesting to see how the Schneider 35mm xl and 47mm fare with the Hasselblads.

    It will be the first time I'll be using the Phase One since a go with the P25 (I think) on my first ever shoot with a view camera.
    I use the H4D50 back all the time with the Rodie 32mm, the Schneider 43mm, the Schneider 72mm, the Schneider 120mm, and the Schneider 210mm on my Arca Swiss RM3Di.
    Since the sensor is the same on the HD4 and the HD5, the results image wise will be the same. The main difference will be the HD5 will not require an external battery as it will facilitate a battery clip that will hold a Sony battery.
    The back has, for me, preformed brilliantly although I maintain the need for center filters on the 32mm and the 43mm.
    I have also ordered the H5D50, but will not pay for it until I have in my procession the battery clip assembly which never showed up the the H4D60 as promised.
    Stanley

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    Re: I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

    Hi Stanley.
    I want to test specifically the Schneider 28mm and 35mm which are causing a lot of problems with the IQ Backs. More so the 180. The 28mm can be used to a certain extent on the 160 but the magenta colour casts gets pretty bad (from what I've read in Guy Mancuso's posts) even when you've still got some image circle left. Because the H5D50 is the same size sensor as my H3D 39, I can't see any issues. I will test the H5D 60 when I get it at the end of February. I would like to have had all 3 backs at the same time for testing but I'm really keen to see how they compare.
    Re. batteries I use a quantum turbo 3 as my battery back. It gives me oodles of power without any hassle. I've got up to 3 days use out of one charge with the H3D 39!

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    Re: I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

    The Kodak sensor in the H4D-40 and H4D-50 has the best skin tones I've ever seen from any digital camera.
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    Re: I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

    Few random thoughts...

    First, I think when testing cameras head to head you can get distracted by minutia that won't effect you post purchase. The very nature of placing them side by side will lead you to pixel peep and look for differences rather than evaluating each on it's own merits. If one camera has 0.1 stop more DR, or 5% less noise in the shadows at ISO200, you will see it when placed head to head, but it's unlikely to effect your use of either camera if chosen.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the IQ160 will perform exceptionally in this regard (pixel peeping vs an H5D). But it's not the area I would suggest you focus on. Truth be told I'm sure you'd be happy with the quality of a best-case capture from either system.

    So do your head to head, side by side, same condition testing; you'd be a fool not to do at least some since you'll have both.

    But I also suggest you save time and mental power (testing can be mentally exhausting) to focus on evaluation of each camera on it's own merits and as a start-to-finish part of your workflow.

    Obviously my list will be biased, so take it for what it's worth, and of course ask your Hasselblad dealer for some areas that he'd want you to consider and test...

    - Accessory size, fit, finish
    - Build quality (durability/fit/finish)
    - Required packing size for all necessary components
    - Boot up speed
    - Stability of the back (any crashes/freezes?)
    - Speed of initial/final renderings after capturing a shot
    - Speed to check focus in several spots in a given image
    - Speed of switching between two similar images to compare focus/detail (also, does it re-render or switch between two fully rendered views)
    - Quality of LCD (view-ability in the situations you'd use it in)
    - Histogram quality, convenience/speed of access
    - Unique Features (e.g. live view, focus mask)
    - Software user interface
    - Software speed and stability
    - Software feature set (automatic horizon correction based on the back's virtual horizon, local adjustments, color editor, perspective correction, etc)

    Regarding lens cast with wide symmetrical Schneiders:
    - Make sure to check the box in Capture One 7 marked "wide angle lens" when using the 28XL and 35XL
    - Both lenses usefulness with an IQ160 (and I suspect the H5D-50 as well) are improved considerably by using the center filters. If you don't have the CF I'd strongly suggest trying to beg/borrow/steal.
    - The IQ160 works considerably better with the 28XL and 35XL than the IQ180 (which uses an 80mp sensor not available in the Hassy line). So any writings/reviews/opinions you've seen regarding the IQ180+28/35 do not really apply to the IQ160.
    - It is pixel size, pixel design, and amount of movement from the center of the lens that causes lens cast. So an H3D-39 and H5D-50 should not be expected to perform similarly in regards to lens cast simply because they share the same sensor size.
    - Don't try to equalize the variables like sensor size. Instead try to answer the question: with each back+lens combination, using best practices, how much of a given scene can I capture, and how big can I make a high quality print of the result? The IQ160 has a larger sensor so if, for instance, you saw lens cast 1mm of movement sooner than with the H5D-50 you'd still be seeing further into the image circle. It's not about how many mm of movement, but of what final image you can produce with each.

    So anyway, this should be a lot of fun for you. Please let us know all your reactions!
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

    Thanks Doug
    Thanks for all the advice. I'll definitely keep it in mind. I'm not really a pixel peeper but I am really looking forward at seeing what are the real differences between the H3D39 and the latest IQ160 and H5D backs re. resolution and dynamic range.
    I know the pixel size has a lot to do with the colour cast. Hence I'm not even testing the IQ180. It will be really interesting to see how the 3 cameras compare. (I will get a loan of a H4D 60 initially to test lens cast) I suppose that will be the main decider for me as it stands.
    I have centre filters for both the 28mm and 35mm xl's.
    I understand about the size of the image circle so I'm keen to see how they perform. I'll take each shot with the H3D 39 Back also to compare lens cast.

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    Re: I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

    I have Schneider 28 XL, 35 XL and Credo 60.

    The 35 XL. Zero movements it performs excellently, sharp edges even. With movements I limit it to 10mm/short side - 12mm/long side to maintain overall solid quality. LCC needed.

    The 28 XL. Zero movements it performs equally as the 35 XL in the centre but there is a noticably degradation around the edges in comparison. With movements I limit it to 6mm/short side - 8mm/short side. LCC needed.

    Although I prefer not using centrefilters I am forced to do so with the larger sensor.
    Alpa FPS MAX TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com
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    Re: I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Both lenses usefulness with an IQ160 (and I suspect the H5D-50 as well) are improved considerably by using the center filters.
    Better than software-corrected, Doug and Dan?

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    Re: I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

    Quote Originally Posted by schuster View Post
    Better than software-corrected, Doug and Dan?
    Ya IMO infinitely better especially if you use a lot of lens movements. I know Dan mentioned before that he tends to get flare. I don't seen to have that problem on the H3D 39.

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    Re: I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

    Quote Originally Posted by schuster View Post
    Better than software-corrected, Doug and Dan?
    Yes, I would say that using a CF is the better choice, but it still does come at a price.

    The 28 XL - If I do a side-by-side comparison with and without CF there is hefty vignetting without CF that introduce a little noise with software correction IF I was on the dark side of exposure. Important to be absolutely correct about exposure. With CF there are no worries about vignetting at all.
    However, at the same time there is imho also a slight loss of sharpness, contrast and fine details using the 28 XL + CF!

    I can not tell the difference in sharpness and contrast using the 35 XL with or without CF! It seems just as sharp with CF. So, for tripoded architectural assigned work I tend to use the combination 35 XL + CF most of the time. Very solid, consistant results with this combo, also with 10mm movements (+LCC).
    But I like very much that there is a choice to use CF or not, because I love to use the 35 XL without CF too, use the Credo 60 at iso 100 and shoot handheld, Leicastyle with Alpa TC or SWA, with fixed exposure at normal daylight of f8 & 1/60 or 1/125. This often translates in black & white images with vignetting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Enda Cavanagh View Post
    Ya IMO infinitely better especially if you use a lot of lens movements. I know Dan mentioned before that he tends to get flare. I don't seen to have that problem on the H3D 39.
    You know what! I haven't thought of any flareproblems since I got the Credo 60!!!! It is true that I was careful with the 22mp back and still encountered flare quite often. Not anymore, so somehow it must be sensor related. I will put the wides at test and report back
    Alpa FPS MAX TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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    Re: I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

    Center filter is better if you have significant vignetting. While you can compensate in the file, you are simply pushing data values and the darker the tones, the fewer values describing them. The center filter gives you the data you want. The filter is improving S/N in those areas as well. Also, sharpness, resolution, and contrast is related to exposure. Image processing is great, but it is not magic.

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    Re: I'll be testing a Hasselblad H5D and Phase One IQ160!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Center filter is better if you have significant vignetting. While you can compensate in the file, you are simply pushing data values and the darker the tones, the fewer values describing them. The center filter gives you the data you want. The filter is improving S/N in those areas as well. Also, sharpness, resolution, and contrast is related to exposure. Image processing is great, but it is not magic.
    +1

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