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Thread: digiback CCD cleaning ????

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    Member Rollei6008i's Avatar
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    digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Dear digiback owners & users,

    As I am going to step into the digiback era , I have a query about the cleaning of CCD surface in the location photography.

    Since the area of MF digiback is much larger than DSLR & may always swapping between film & digiback, there are a lot of chances of some dust may fell on the CCD surface or even some finger prints on it . Would you like to share your experience on these occasions on how to tackle it ? Just clean as cleaning the lens or have some special methods ??

    Thanks in advance.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    I'd like to know too. Cleaning DSLR sensors is easy enough for me, since it has the AA filter on the front to protect the sensor, so I don't worry about ruining it.

    Does one use the same chemicals and apparatus or do CCDs need something else?

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    First off concerning fingerprints: just don't touch the sensor.
    Otherwise digital backs clean up pretty much the same as any other sensor.
    There are larger versions of swabs, as well as the Phase One cleaning kit which uses a plastic paddle with a folded-over disposable soft paper wipe.
    In the field, with wind blowing, cleaning any sensor can be trouble. At least get into some sheltered place (car, tent, or otherwise in-doors) and do your cleaning there.

    First, try a blower like the rocket blower which works well enough in the field. I have a filtered blower sold by visible dust which may be better for use in the wild. Some use canned air, very carefully, and with a partial can and a short burst with the can upright to avoid spraying the sensor with fluid.

    Second, use a wipe with a cleaning fluid. For field use I use the visible dust digital back swab Digital back sensor swab.. I have never been pleased with the cleaning fluids produced by visible dust and strongly prefer eclipse or the "B" solution from the phase one cleaning kit. Be forewarned though that the A solution in the Phase One kit is a soap and water solution which has the nasty tendency of leaving behind a soapy residue. I guess I might use that on a last resort basis.
    The fluid to use is dependent on the type of contamination.
    Oil needs a solvent or soapy solution to remove. Eclipse usually works for me.
    Salts such as sea-spray needs something with a bit of water in it. The Phase One B contains enough water to work usually, although I wish somebody would sell a small dropper bottle of micro-filtered distilled water.
    Sometimes when the type of contaminant cannot be identified you might need to try a few different approaches.
    -bob
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    I see, so good ol eclipse and sensor swabs it is then.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    I think you'll find that cleaning a MFDB sensor is much easier than a DSLR and generally is not needed nearly as much.

    Similar to a DSLR, I use the least invasive/intrusive method of cleaning and move up from there as needed to clean the sensor. Usually the blower is all I need on the MFDB, and I probably use the Phase cleaning kit "B" solution only about once a year.

    Blower
    Visible dust sensor brush
    Phase One cleaning kit/swabs

    ken

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    I have learned to avoid all those sensor brushes since fairly quickly they accumulate an oily residue and leave streaks.
    So
    1) Blower
    2) swab it
    Last edited by Bob; 20th January 2013 at 07:17.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    There is a "cleaner" for the sensor brushes, but I've never had to buy/use it. The oily residue is generally picked up from cleaning DSLR, which can have oils on the mirror box walls. No likee da oil on me sensor....
    (Ok, need more coffee)

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Medium format backs have sensor cover glass just like a dslr.
    although it is bigger it is much easier to get at.
    i hate cleaning sensors at the bottom of a deep mirror box.
    -bob
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Medium format backs have sensor cover glass just like a dslr.
    although it is bigger it is much easier to get at.
    i hate cleaning sensors at the bottom of a deep mirror box.
    -bob
    Good to know. The exposed sensor definitely seems like it would be easier to clean.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I have learned to avoid all those sensor brushes since fairly quickly they accumulate an oily residue and leave streaks.
    So
    1) Blower
    2) swab it
    I have never tried any of the brushes but did try the Phase cleaning kit on my IQ180 and thought the whole process was clumsy..... and I couldn't get the corners clean to save my life. I will try your Swab method.... if it works for you it should work for me.

    Victor

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Edges/corners can be a pita, especially on a dslr. You can try the lens pen method---I dedicate a lens pens to sensor cleaning and nothing else. Usually a careful clean swab works well.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    I love my P25+ back for this--I can just lick it clean, Try getting your tongue to touch a DSLR sensor!
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I love my P25+ back for this--I can just lick it clean, Try getting your tongue to touch a DSLR sensor!
    And here I was going to post something about taking it in the shower with you. Oh wait that's the Cube
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????


    Don , was that your unspoken idea ?
    Gitzo Systematic OCEAN + CUBE , the ideal underwater tripod combo ?
    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I love my P25+ back for this--I can just lick it clean, Try getting your tongue to touch a DSLR sensor!
    A big black Newfie like you should have no problem getting your tongue in to the DSLR mirror box. It's just the lack of precision and drool clean up afterwards that are the problem.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Few points to reinforce:
    - It's easier to get dust on a MFDB as compared to a dSLR, but it's also much easier to clean.
    - Most dust can be avoided by proper handling. If removing the back from a body just point it sensor-dust the entire time. As a general rule dust doesn't fall upward.
    - A simple blower takes care of most dust.
    - Pay attention and be careful, but don't get too worked up: you are cleaning a piece of glass.

    There have been several threads here about specific cleaning kits and techniques.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    What if all the regular cleaning methods don't work? I have applied Phase One solution A/B many times (half bottle), and rubbed sensor very hard, but the oil is still on the surface and spreading thinner. Do I need a CCD filter replacement, or the dealer has some special way to further clean it?

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by yongfei View Post
    What if all the regular cleaning methods don't work? I have applied Phase One solution A/B many times (half bottle), and rubbed sensor very hard, but the oil is still on the surface and spreading thinner. Do I need a CCD filter replacement, or the dealer has some special way to further clean it?
    I know the package says to use Solution A followed by solution B, but you should not do this.

    Solution A is an oily soap and anytime you use it you must use Solution B several (or many) times to get the residuals of Solution A off.

    So since you've already used A several times you'll need to use B now at least four or five times. I would not be shocked if you said it took you 8-10 more times to fully soak up the residuals from using Solution A several times. But it will go away.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    I had exactly the same problem.

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-f...-cleaning.html

    Post 24 in that thread worked a treat for me.

    B only. Firm pressure. As slow as you can.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    B only. Firm pressure. As slow as you can.
    Are we all talking about the same thing?
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    I had exactly the same problem.

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-f...-cleaning.html

    Post 24 in that thread worked a treat for me.

    B only. Firm pressure. As slow as you can.
    I would caution against using firm pressure, EVER. Firstly, enough pressure in the right place will crack the glass filter. Its about a grand$ to replace. Secondly, if you follow through after the glass cracks, you shatter the CCD. Thirdly, and highest risk is that if you have even the smallest piece of grit on the filter that is harder than the coating on the filter, you will be dragging it under pressure across the filter and will scratch it. I have seen people do all 3 of these things.

    MINIMAL PRESSURE ONLY!!!!!!!
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Obviously "firm" is relative. There are a couple of videos on YouTube that I looked at. They show a pressure that just slightly bends the plastic that you wrap the cloth around. Prior to seeing the video, I was treating the thing way to gently!

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Incidentally, it's pretty clear that the Phase instructions are just plain wrong for the vast majority of scenarios. Perhaps the dealers here with connections to the mothership could send some feedback to get those directions changed?

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Ok, now I understand that the Phase instruction on the Youtube may not be the best way - I need to apply solution B several times after using solution A.

    Another mistake that I made was to pour the solution A directly on the CCD filter, thinking that would disolve the oily smudge, make it easier to wipe away. But it actually made the smudge spreading thinner on the surface. Now I realize that I should always apply the solution on the wipes, never on CCD filter directly?

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    A few years ago, I was shooting a lot of nature and out of necessity having to change lenses in the field. As a result I was accumulating a lot of dust/dirt on my sensor filter. Against the advice of my dealer and after watching the video on the Phase One 2 part sensor cleaning package, I ordered the product and followed the instructions.
    I caked up my sensor filter with the part A solution and could not remove the residue with part B and the wipes even after many multiple attempts. I sent the back to Hasselblad for cleaning and they returned my back perfectly clean.
    To say I was relieved is a huge understatement.
    I called Hasselblad in New Jersey and asked to speak to the person who had done the actual cleaning on my back.
    He told me that he was trained to use the Eclipse solution, and his success rate was 100%; he further stated that he had seen some really dirty sensors which required multiple Eclipse passes.
    I retained the plastic card that came with the Phase One package; my cleaning procedure today is multiple layers of the Eclipse wipe around the card.After each pass with moderate pressure at about a 30 degree angle, I relocate the wipe on the plastic card before another pass over the sensor filter.
    Happy to report that this method insures an immaculate sensor filter, and I find myself cleaning the back after every outdoor use of the camera.
    While Hasselblad skirts the issue, the HD5 appears to me to be more dust proof than the HD4- have no evidence of this just my impression when I took apart the demo I saw recently

    Stanley

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Thank you all of you experts & digiback owners shared your precious experience , I learnt a lot.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    FWIW, this is the video that shows a pretty firm press down on the sensor -

    Cleaning kit | Phase One P+ digital camera back - YouTube

    Before seeing that, I was a lot more gentle, but that kind of pressure, along with only using the B fluid, and going very slowly, works extremely well for me. One swipe and its done.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Apply as much pressure as you like, but ignore my previous post at your own peril.
    Siebel
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Good guide.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by stngoldberg View Post
    A few years ago, I was shooting a lot of nature and out of necessity having to change lenses in the field. As a result I was accumulating a lot of dust/dirt on my sensor filter. Against the advice of my dealer and after watching the video on the Phase One 2 part sensor cleaning package, I ordered the product and followed the instructions.
    I caked up my sensor filter with the part A solution and could not remove the residue with part B and the wipes even after many multiple attempts. I sent the back to Hasselblad for cleaning and they returned my back perfectly clean.
    To say I was relieved is a huge understatement.
    I called Hasselblad in New Jersey and asked to speak to the person who had done the actual cleaning on my back.
    He told me that he was trained to use the Eclipse solution, and his success rate was 100%; he further stated that he had seen some really dirty sensors which required multiple Eclipse passes.
    I retained the plastic card that came with the Phase One package; my cleaning procedure today is multiple layers of the Eclipse wipe around the card.After each pass with moderate pressure at about a 30 degree angle, I relocate the wipe on the plastic card before another pass over the sensor filter.
    Happy to report that this method insures an immaculate sensor filter, and I find myself cleaning the back after every outdoor use of the camera.
    While Hasselblad skirts the issue, the HD5 appears to me to be more dust proof than the HD4- have no evidence of this just my impression when I took apart the demo I saw recently

    Stanley
    Stanley,

    My dealer suggested the Part A and Part B solutions for cleaning the sensor on my H4D60, so I bought the package from him. After reading the various forum posts on the subject, I have never used the Part A cleaner. However, I am very, very nervous about using the plastic card. I am worried that the plastic will scratch the sensor even with the material wrapped around it. And, if a particle was caught by the card, it would scratch the IR filter. With e-wipes, the pressure of the folded material is quite sufficient for removing everything from the sensor. I still may use the plastic card and part B solution, but it will be with multiple layers of material and very gentle pressure.

    So, all in all, e-wipes seem to be the answer for my sensor cleaning needs.

    Greg

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    The size of the plastic card fits the IR filter on my H4D50 perfectly, so using it with the wipe wrapped around it insures an even application of the Eclipse solvent.
    I have probably used the card over 200 times without an incident.
    Stanley

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    Apply as much pressure as you like, but ignore my previous post at your own peril.
    Like I said earlier, if you believe the instructions from the company itself are wrong, perhaps it might be worth your while dropping them a line to suggest they change them?

    A lot more people buying and using a Phase One back will see - and presumably follow the instructions of - that video than will ever read this thread.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Like I said earlier, if you believe the instructions from the company itself are wrong, perhaps it might be worth your while dropping them a line to suggest they change them?

    A lot more people buying and using a Phase One back will see - and presumably follow the instructions of - that video than will ever read this thread.
    Phase have known about the issues with Part A for many years and the feed back continues regularly. The fact is, there are some contaminants that Part A is great at removing but I need it in as few as 1 in 20 cleaning sessions. Part B is the way to go if you have the DigClean/Phase One kit. Before all these commercial products were available, most of us using MF backs were using pure medical grade alcohol without any problems. I do believe that they should provide additional advice about what contaminants part A is to be used for, but they choose not to. Personally, I have more important things to carp about. Perhaps our resident GX680 fan might like to run with this baton for a bit
    Siebel
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    I think the best method is to use Part B alone, only using Part A when B doesn't do the job. My impression is that A has detergent properties that are rarely needed, and that it's hard to remove completely.
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    Perhaps our resident GX680 fan might like to run with this baton for a bit
    Read on sensorcleanrumors.com that there is a GX680 specific blend of A&B without any contaminants, but it only works on Fuji and recently supports the D800. It is quite inexpensive, but Phase has conspired not to pick it up with the sole intention of protecting the substantial margin and revenue streams they currently enjoy in their captive Cleaning Solutions Division. They will likely spin this off as an IPO in late 2013.

    On a related note, the 55LS is suffering serious sharpness issues due to Phase users using the A solution as a lens cleaner

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Read on sensorcleanrumors.com that there is a GX680 specific blend of A&B without any contaminants, but it only works on Fuji and recently supports the D800. It is quite inexpensive, but Phase has conspired not to pick it up with the sole intention of protecting the substantial margin and revenue streams they currently enjoy in their captive Cleaning Solutions Division. They will likely spin this off as an IPO in late 2013.

    On a related note, the 55LS is suffering serious sharpness issues due to Phase users using the A solution as a lens cleaner
    Siebel
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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Part A can be used as a hand soap in an emergency.

    -bob

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    I have a CF39 and recently got it cleaned by sending it back to Hasselblad. Cost me 450 bucks but I feel it was worth it because I haven't serviced it since I first bought it. I recommending sending it to a pro every few years for the peace of mind and also the overall check up that's included in the service.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    I think the best method is to use Part B alone, only using Part A when B doesn't do the job. My impression is that A has detergent properties that are rarely needed, and that it's hard to remove completely.
    This is my own experience. I have some streaks on my IQ160 and can't get rid of them entirely. Was going to try a different brand of solution.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    I hate the tissues I got with my phase back and much prefer the paper tissues. The phase ones leave threads behind and streak very easily.

    I'd also add that it is much better to clean the sensor often, than leave it. I presume because they can get so hot it seems to get harder and harder to clean the longer you leave it.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Biggs View Post
    This is my own experience. I have some streaks on my IQ160 and can't get rid of them entirely. Was going to try a different brand of solution.
    You'll need to do several "rinsings" with the B solution and clean wipes. It can be a pita, but it will clear up.

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    Re: digiback CCD cleaning ????

    I got DigiClean kit from a friend. The kit never been used, but the problem is we have no idea when it was purchased. It's time to clean my P30+ for the first time. Is there expiration date for the cleaning liquid? I probably sound paranoiac.

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