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Thread: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

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    When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    any ideas around here? be very keen to see it

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    It would be very cool to see how USB3, a Microsoft Surface Pro tablet, and C1 Pro 7 play well together....


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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Remind me to ban the PC users. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Wwhat? I haven't even posted any cat photos, in like what --a few weeks?

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Wwhat? I haven't even posted any cat photos, in like what --a few weeks?
    Are you shooting the cats with your D800 or your GX680?
    Siebel
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    Are you shooting the cats with your D800 or your GX680?
    I bought a used Fuji GX680 off Ebay to photograph A-list celebrity cat stars (Morris, Garfield, et al) but I had a hard time making it work, particularly with critical whisker focus. I saw a Youtube video claiming it could obtain sharp focus and found it to be misleading. So I've decided to condemn the entire format and publicly urge you to do so as well. I did use the system for a few months (at least 562 frames) so can honestly claim that I've owned a Fuji GX680 without misleading anyone.


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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    guys you really believe USB3 will ever be available on the iq series?
    my guess is that p1 did some major mistake while development and just cant solve it, no pun intended, happens.

    deal with it and move on

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Who cares about USB3 - I want a thunderbolt port in the IQ backs.

    I don't know how all this works but you must need to pay some sort of licence to use cutting edge connection protocol like USB3 or Thunderbolt. If I was P1 and had to support and pay a licence on one of these two technologies I know which appears more high tech to end users...........

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    who cares in general? As a photographer, I choose my camera much before I choose a macbook air, etc. Right now the backs are what they are, buy a computer that adapts to your camera, not the inverse. I much prefer that Phase One spends their money and time on Capture One and the things that actual create great photos(example: R&D on new upcoming backs, higher iso capabilities, better color rendition). Sorry to say, a USB3 will not help you create better photos...

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    If this had been a car we'd have seen a class action lawsuit by now

    Would be amazed if it's a technical issue - why launch the Credo backs knowing there's an inherent problem? If it couldn't be resolved they would have just changed the case to cover the USB port methinks.

    In these situations (i.e. one that drags on forever) transparency seems to me to be the best and most decent option. Whether you would use USB3 or not isn't the issue - the consumer bought and paid for something that hasn't been delivered. Would be good if someone from Phase / Leaf spoke up and said what the issue is - technical, licensing or whatever, and what the timeline is to resolution. Or, if it can't be resolved, what Phase/Leaf are prepared to do about it.

    BTW: I have a flying pig - pig available now, flight will be enabled 'soon' via swill update - $40k now secures pig - trade-ins available, contact your local butcher.
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by shortpballer View Post
    who cares in general? As a photographer, I choose my camera much before I choose a macbook air, etc. Right now the backs are what they are, buy a computer that adapts to your camera, not the inverse. I much prefer that Phase One spends their money and time on Capture One and the things that actual create great photos(example: R&D on new upcoming backs, higher iso capabilities, better color rendition). Sorry to say, a USB3 will not help you create better photos...
    I care. I paid (quite a bit) for a back that claimed(s) to have USB3 as a connectivity option. I keep my promises, I expect others to as well.

    From the Phase One site, "The IQ series digital camera backs are the first digital backs to feature a USB3 connection, facilitating faster image transfers than ever before." They even have an image with a cord plugged into it like it actually #^$% works! Unbelievable! What balls they have.


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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    I don't know about a class action: the sleazy class action lawyers won't touch a case with such a small class. But it sure seems actionable. They sell a product by advertising its features, and then fail to deliver on one feature that many buyers consider important and relied upon when choosing to buy. It sounds like a breach of contract.
    Last edited by stephengilbert; 30th January 2013 at 18:27.

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    I keep a thumbdrive plugged in mine.....
    Don Libby
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    I keep a thumbdrive plugged in mine.....

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    As we all realize this is a long-standing issue that has concerned, and even angered, many users of the IQ series. Of course the importance of a high speed UBS 3 connection will vary with individual needs but there can be no question that what was promised was not delivered and that the decision to purchase by some was influenced by the advertised specifications. At this point it is really up to P1 to be either honest regarding the difficulties they are having or release the driver. If they don't, they will loose all credibility concerning the IQ series and any other hardware they MAY market in the future, MF or otherwise.

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    I just got a call from a P1 rep. Says that the UBS deficit is the fault of George Bush and the Congressional Republicans. What are the odds of a resolution in light of this information?

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Sorry about my sense of humor. Even I do not find it amusing when I think about it.

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    reminds me of that

    "In the third quarter of 2006, Phase One plans to introduce a $6000 upgrade to allow "very high speed" wireless transfer from its backs. The company predicts an operating range of 25 meters – a bit more than 80 feet."

    Phase One Announces Three Digital Backs and Wireless Transfer - Pro SLR / Digital Backs - DigitalCamerainfo.com

    promises promises promises

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    IMO the announced USB3 capability is a much more concrete "promise" to deliver than a tentative "plans to introduce" a high speed wireless transfer "upgrade" that you would have to shell out more money to obtain. So you're not out any money.

    We've already paid for the USB3 capability. It has the USB3 port already built into the IQ MFDBs.

    So we wait. And wait. And as Donald has pointed out the importance of USB3 capability varies according to individual needs. Maybe it's a power issue? (Firewire provides power; USB draws power away).

    I trust that Phase One will delivery eventually though I'm not one who "needs" USB3---and I really don't want to be buying a MS Surface Pro at the moment. But there are those who could benefit. And I like those options...

    ken
    Last edited by kdphotography; 30th January 2013 at 18:39.

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Although I think there can be a certain amount of "buyer beware" (of unfulfilled promises) counter arguments applicable here, I think it's really bad form that P1 (or any company in a similar position, a la Hasselblad with it's battery addition,) would continue to market their product as having USB3 when it obviously doesn't – except for the cosmetic addition of a dead plug!

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    You paid for the USB3 capabilities? Or the capturing capabilities of the IQ backs with touchscreen interface? To me the release of Capture One 7 helps everyones photography far more than a USB3... I am quite happy their money is being spent on this rather than USB3...

    Quote Originally Posted by alan_w_george View Post
    I care. I paid (quite a bit) for a back that claimed(s) to have USB3 as a connectivity option. I keep my promises, I expect others to as well.

    From the Phase One site, "The IQ series digital camera backs are the first digital backs to feature a USB3 connection, facilitating faster image transfers than ever before." They even have an image with a cord plugged into it like it actually #^$% works! Unbelievable! What balls they have.


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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    I am glad that YOUR needs have been met and that YOU believe that P1 R&D is being spend where it best serves YOUR needs. YOU sound like so many today in that YOU appear to believe YOU know what is best for everyone. As a result, the real issue at hand becomes obscured. This is why P1 gets away with it's behavior. However, it will eventually become evident to P1 that you reap what you sow.
    BTW- While C1 Pro 7.0.2 probably has superior skin tone rendition with P1 backs it still has a long way to go to come even close to the performance and feature set of either LR or PS.

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    There is no question: Phase One promised this feature (and continues to promise it) and it's long overdue. For many/most users it's not of much consequence. For some users it's a pretty big deal. For all users it's very reasonable to expect all promised features of a system you've purchased to be delivered.

    All I can tell you is that we've been consistently told, and every sign I've seen, is that: 1) it will happen and 2) it's the highest development priority at P1DK right now.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Pays to be a pessimist... if you don't get what you didn't anticipate, then no big deal, if you do, then great. Phase could have very well have not implemented USB3 at all and no one would bat an eye.

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    I personally don't know how any photographer who shoots threader can not consider this as a major growing issue when stumping up the cash in question for a new P1 back. Relying on the hollow promises, (now for over 2 years?) ignoring it is just silly.

    Sure, the camera works great at the moment but with Apple dropping support for firewire on virtually all its machines and the only solution is a string of adapters and cables to make it all work its a pretty important feature IMO.

    Whatever happens with the USB port in the current IQ's, the IQ Mk2 must have USB3/Thunderbolt for it to have any future.

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Thanks, Doug----good to hear.

    The cats are impatient (I really don't like cats either) so it would be nice to see USB3 implemented soon. Don't make Donna and Kenna come out of retirement.


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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Granted my normal studio setting is a 100' cliff face and several miles away from any sort of computer. I bought the IQ for what it could do at the moment - not what it will be capable of doing in the future. If I need to shoot tethered I can still use the firewire so not having USB is of no real consequence after all there's still the firewire.

    I do think it bad form on Phase's part to not address the current status leaving it up to the dealers instead to make excuses. Phase needs to revamp their advertizing until such time as they get the bugs worked out.

    Just my 2
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Possibly the biggest challenge may be some expectation of faster captures then firewire 800. That may not or is likely not going to happen.
    Probable case: equal to slightly faster on usb 3, slower when operating on a backwardly compatible usb 2 post.
    -bob

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Sure, the camera works great at the moment but with Apple dropping support for firewire on virtually all its machines and the only solution is a string of adapters and cables to make it all work its a pretty important feature IMO.

    Whatever happens with the USB port in the current IQ's, the IQ Mk2 must have USB3/Thunderbolt for it to have any future.
    Can you elaborate on your desire for Thunderbolt support?

    Every modern* Phase One back works with Thunderbolt today. It doesn't require a "string of adapters" only one (1) small dongle which costs $29.

    For that price you can gaffe tape or superglue one to the end of your firewire cables if you feel it awkward; though I'd tell you it's not needed, the [cable>adapter>port] physical connection is actually more solid than the native FW800 physical connection (which can easily walk it's way out if you wiggle it back and forth).

    *P, P+, IQ
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Can you elaborate on your desire for Thunderbolt support?

    Every modern* Phase One back works with Thunderbolt today. It doesn't require a "string of adapters" only one (1) small dongle which costs $29.

    *P, P+, IQ
    I read that most backs now require back battery under Thunderbolt connection. How stable it is to directly use power from the laptop?

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Doug,
    I spent $4000 on a windows laptop when I purchased the IQ 160 in anticipation of a functioning USB 3 connection as was advertised. Thunderbolt is of no use to me unless P1 wants to spring for a new Mac AND the appropriate only $29 connector. As much as you might try there is really no way you can support both P1 and your clients on this simple and straightforward outstanding issue.

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by donaldlavay View Post
    Doug,
    I spent $4000 on a windows laptop when I purchased the IQ 160 in anticipation of a functioning USB 3 connection as was advertised. Thunderbolt is of no use to me unless P1 wants to spring for a new Mac AND the appropriate only $29 connector. As much as you might try there is really no way you can support both P1 and your clients on this simple and straightforward outstanding issue.
    Donald, where was I supporting P1 in my post? If there are "sides" in this issue I'm on your side 100%.

    Here is what I wrote: "There is no question: Phase One promised this feature (and continues to promise it) and it's long overdue[...] it's very reasonable to expect all promised features of a system you've purchased to be delivered."

    My post about Thunderbolt was entirely separate (and a bit off topic). Gazwas was requesting native Thunderbolt support on future backs and I was asking why he would want that when all modern P1 backs already support Thunderbolt with a simple adapter. Obviously as a Windows user that conversation has no bearing on you. P1 promised USB3 and P1 owes you USB3.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by yongfei View Post
    I read that most backs now require back battery under Thunderbolt connection. How stable it is to directly use power from the laptop?
    No digital back can be powered from Thunderbolt; there isn't nearly enough power. This would be true even if they implemented a native Thunderbolt port on the back. You have to use the digital back's battery.

    Every modern Phase One back (and the Leaf Credo) can run off it's own battery while tethered, so you just select "battery power", plug in the cable, and start shooting. The only "chain of adapters" are for older Leaf backs and other brands of back which do not have the ability to run off their own batteries while tethered.

    Using the Thunderbolt adapter (with modern P1 and Leaf Credo) is stable, simple, and fast. I don't know what avantages a native Thunderbolt port on a future Phase/Leaf would provide other than eliminating a single $29 adapter (and would obviously raise the price of the back by much more than $29). But I'm open to learning there is a meaningful advantage I'm overlooking.

    [again this Thunderbolt conversation is offtopic and separate from the issue of whether Phase One is responsible for implementing a promised feature on their current backs; I agree they are responsible to do that]
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    I have brought up the USB 3.0 issue a number of times in the past and have been just shy of insulted for not simply buying an apple product to run it.

    The port is there and I belive it was not put there to help Don keep track of his memory stick!

    There are promises and there is bullsh*t.

    At present the USB port activation is vapour ware and has personally cost me THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Can you elaborate on your desire for Thunderbolt support?
    If P1 can't get USB3 to work then we at least need a more modern connection then FW800 going forward to the future....... is that not an essential requirement?

    P1 picked USB3 whick maxes out at 4.5watts power over cable I think - if they can't get that to juice the backs up then Thunderbolt with 10watts over cable must be a better option......?

    My point being I'm not bothered what they get working, all I know is if P1 need to get a simple, no nonsence tethered option working for the future. Is that such an unusual request Doug?

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    If P1 can't get USB3 to work then we at least need a more modern connection then FW800 going forward to the future....... is that not an essential requirement?

    P1 picked USB3 whick maxes out at 4.5watts power over cable I think - if they can't get that to juice the backs up then Thunderbolt with 10watts over cable must be a better option......?

    My point being I'm not bothered what they get working, all I know is if P1 need to get a simple, no nonsence tethered option working for the future. Is that such an unusual request Doug?
    I guess I just don't see what the "nonsense" of the FW->Thunderbolt connection is. To me the current Thunderbolt option is "simple and no nonsense". By the way USB3 also will not power a back; the back will be running off it's own battery. Only FW has enough juice to power a back and even then it's just barely enough.

    But yes, I agree they need connectivity other than FW (and Thunderbolt) given that it's reasonable to expect IQs will still be in common use in 10 years (I'm basing that on the continued common use of the H20/H25). Neither FW nor Thunderbolt is of much use for portable Windows users now that Express Cards are becoming rare. All these reasons are why they included USB3 on the IQ.

    So I think we both agree: they need to get USB3 working, and soon! They are long overdue on that.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by yongfei View Post
    I read that most backs now require back battery under Thunderbolt connection. How stable it is to directly use power from the laptop?
    Sorry to get off the USB 3 topic here, but FWIW, I have found on the H4D that using the $29 adapter Doug mentions (to convert cameras FW to Thunderbolt) I absolutely must have the laptop (latest model MacBook Pro) connected to mains. Running off laptop on it's battery has proved unstable, but when the laptop is plugged into the wall, all is good.

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Emm View Post
    Sorry to get off the USB 3 topic here, but FWIW, I have found on the H4D that using the $29 adapter Doug mentions (to convert cameras FW to Thunderbolt) I absolutely must have the laptop (latest model MacBook Pro) connected to mains. Running off laptop on it's battery has proved unstable, but when the laptop is plugged into the wall, all is good.
    For clarification we have not found any issue like this with Phase One backs.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Donald, where was I supporting P1 in my post? If there are "sides" in this issue I'm on your side 100%.

    Here is what I wrote: "There is no question: Phase One promised this feature (and continues to promise it) and it's long overdue[...] it's very reasonable to expect all promised features of a system you've purchased to be delivered."

    My post about Thunderbolt was entirely separate (and a bit off topic). Gazwas was requesting native Thunderbolt support on future backs and I was asking why he would want that when all modern P1 backs already support Thunderbolt with a simple adapter. Obviously as a Windows user that conversation has no bearing on you. P1 promised USB3 and P1 owes you USB3.
    Doug,
    Thanks for the clarification and your support.

    Don

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    FWIW, I think the powered USB3 standard is still in flux, so not totally a P1 screwup. Remember that USB, unlike FW is a very wide "open" standard. I agree that the marketing was a little too aggressive, but at the same time, I would argue that most users have a suitable alternative with FW.

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    I would like to add to Doug's comment. USB3 is arriving soon.
    -Lionel
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    I have no dog in this fight, however I applaud P1 for taking the initiative to add an alternative transfer method when tethered, which Hasselblad has not even addressed or acknowledged ... assumedly relying on FW800 and some Thunderbolt adapter for exclusive Mac usage.

    That P1 is very late implementing the USB-3 seems to indicate a difficult task at hand, and perhaps the marketing was aggressive ... yet the alternative would have been not to include the USB-3 on the backs until it was fully working and really piss off early and current IQ adopters when it was added later ... later being now when it is starting to become a more critical matter due to what the computer companies are doing.

    Not saying P1 owners shouldn't grouse about it to keep the fire lit under P1's rump, but be thankful it is there ... in IMHO.

    -Marc

  43. #43
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by lkuhlmann View Post
    I would like to add to Doug's comment. USB3 is arriving soon.
    -Lionel
    "Soon" is a meaningless measure that depending on one's perspective could mean in an hour, a day, a week, a month, a quarter, a year, etc etc.

    Care to quantify?

    Kind regards,

    Gerald.

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    I for one hope that they take the time and care to deliver a rock-solid implementation.
    -bob
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMo View Post
    I have brought up the USB 3.0 issue a number of times in the past and have been just shy of insulted for not simply buying an apple product to run it.

    The port is there and I belive it was not put there to help Don keep track of his memory stick!

    There are promises and there is bullsh*t.

    At present the USB port activation is vapour ware and has personally cost me THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS
    It hasn't cost me thousands, but it has cost me OOF missed images. I need an ultralight tethered solution to do my stitch work at critical wide open focus (no, the IQ back screen is not good enough) then disconnect and take my images untethered. Yes, the answer may be a Surface Pro or the new Lenovo Helix - both have proper Windows 8 OS, USB3, weigh just over/under 2lbs and use full power intel processors with 'retina' displays.

    I'd prefer a tablet style for tethering, as its small, light and simple - the clamshell of a laptop, however small, is somewhat awkward on the street. I used a convertible Fujitsu, and that's kind of great, but heavy for a solo trekker. I would consider an Air when it moves to Retina screen, but it hasn't. Yet. I would consider a 'iPad Pro' with USB3 / Thunderbolt and real Intel processor in it, but that doesn't exist. Yet.

    Am happy to work on Windows or Mac, they both have the same damn processors in them, so whomever gives me the best form factor and screen, i.e. the right tool, I'll take it. If... Phase would just damn well deliver USB3 functionality.

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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Can you elaborate on your desire for Thunderbolt support?

    Every modern* Phase One back works with Thunderbolt today. It doesn't require a "string of adapters" only one (1) small dongle which costs $29.

    For that price you can gaffe tape or superglue one to the end of your firewire cables if you feel it awkward; though I'd tell you it's not needed, the [cable>adapter>port] physical connection is actually more solid than the native FW800 physical connection (which can easily walk it's way out if you wiggle it back and forth).

    *P, P+, IQ
    But that's not Thunderbolt. Once you plug the dongle in it's a firewire port, not a thunderbolt port anymore and is limited by the firewire specficiations.

    I think native thunderbolt is what is being referred to, and I'm sure Phase is considering it for the next iteration of backs, especially if adaptors like those from Apple work so the back only has one port but can effectively interface to TB, USB3, or FW 800.
    wayne
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    It's in the immediate pipeline. Can't be more specific I am afraid.
    -Lionel

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    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by lkuhlmann View Post
    It's in the immediate pipeline. Can't be more specific I am afraid.
    -Lionel
    What is USB or thunderbolt or buy the poor guy a MacBook Pro?

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by lkuhlmann View Post
    It's in the immediate pipeline. Can't be more specific I am afraid.
    -Lionel
    Can we get it in time for CI in Carmel?

    I hope it's just a firmware update and not a required visit to the homeland.



    ken

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    Re: When oh when is USB3 coming to Phase backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    What is USB or thunderbolt or buy the poor guy a MacBook Pro?
    he means USB3 support is coming. good news.
    if it happens soon, its just in time for the new full power tablets that are arriving.

    (on windows so far, but expect Apple not to let that slip)

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