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Thread: Schneider 35XL? Price?

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    Schneider 35XL? Price?

    I have been trying to sell my 35XL for a while now. From what I've seen others sell for it seems to go for around 4k. However, I've lowered mine several times, to now a price of 3650 with center filter and it still doesn't sell. Are people not interested in this lens anymore?

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    What mount: is it ALPA, Cambo, Arca?

    I suspect that the recent discussions about the lens not working well with 80MP backs might have had an impact on demand.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Unless you're with an 80MP MFDB, the Schneider 35XL is still a good lens.

    Maybe the lack of interest in your 35XL is because everyone is scrambling for Don Libby's 35XL autographed version....


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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Ken, thanks for the plug however I vacillated posting mine until after "Shortpballer" sold his.

    Don
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    I am following the 35xl discussion with interest as like Don, I am thinking of selling my 35xl and buying a 40HR.

    At the Melbourne Phase One dealer they have a secondhand 35xl (Cambo mount) for sale - price $2900 Aus. The lens has been for sale for some months without being sold so in Australia at least it seems this lens is not in high demand.

    I would be happy to sell my 35xl for $2900 Aus if I could find a buyer.

    Added as extra information on the matter.


    Mal
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Cambo and Alpa mount are completely different prices normally. Hopefully it sells soon! If anyone wants it today, I will let her go for 3550 plus shipping with center filter. Only if it comes from someone in the MFDB section

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    I'm surely very interested in a SK 35XL lens, I use an older digital back (no color cast issues like on the IQ180) and need the focal length...

    I'm interested in most Schneider Digitar lenses actually (those I don't already have that is), these are very attractive for us amateurs using a bit older equipment.

    However, as a view camera user I'm not interested in paying in the overhead of a helicon lens mount, which in the case of Alpa, Arca-Swiss and even Cambo is significant.

    I guess it is not really possible to sell lens and mount separately? It would be infinitely hard to sell only a lens mount without a lens I suppose :-)

    The SK35 is also not my top priority lens, I have investigated the performance thoroughly with the help of this forum, and the effective image circle for those of us that have high expectation on pixel-peep corner sharpness seems to be about 75mm rather than 90 due to its field curvature. It's a better alternative than the 35mm Digaron-S which is hard-limited to 70mm, but 75mm high quality image circle is a bit less than I'd like anyway. So I was hoping that Schneider would introduce something like a super digitar 35mm, something that has more correction for field curvature while not being as extreme as the Rodenstock 32mm, but I guess that is not too likely. So if I see a suitable deal of a SK35XL I'd buy it.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    I will know in a day or two if I am offering mine for sale again, on Cambo mount, and it won't be very expensive and we are both in Europe so no import/export taxes....

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    I'm surely very interested in a SK 35XL lens, I use an older digital back (no color cast issues like on the IQ180) and need the focal length...

    I'm interested in most Schneider Digitar lenses actually (those I don't already have that is), these are very attractive for us amateurs using a bit older equipment.

    However, as a view camera user I'm not interested in paying in the overhead of a helicon lens mount, which in the case of Alpa, Arca-Swiss and even Cambo is significant.

    I guess it is not really possible to sell lens and mount separately? It would be infinitely hard to sell only a lens mount without a lens I suppose :-)

    The SK35 is also not my top priority lens, I have investigated the performance thoroughly with the help of this forum, and the effective image circle for those of us that have high expectation on pixel-peep corner sharpness seems to be about 75mm rather than 90 due to its field curvature. It's a better alternative than the 35mm Digaron-S which is hard-limited to 70mm, but 75mm high quality image circle is a bit less than I'd like anyway. So I was hoping that Schneider would introduce something like a super digitar 35mm, something that has more correction for field curvature while not being as extreme as the Rodenstock 32mm, but I guess that is not too likely. So if I see a suitable deal of a SK35XL I'd buy it.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Reading the threads you'd begin to believe that the 35 XL Apo-Digitar is a pebble. It is anything BUT! Unless you're using the IQ180 or other 80mp digital back this lens is an absolute gem. Sharp. Movements. A very high quality lens with great sharpness and acuity.

    And no, I'm not trying to sell mine
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Once again I'm in agreement with Graham; the 35XL is tack sharp so long as you keep it away from an 80 megapixel back.

    So, we have 2-of these available one Alpa the other Cambo and maybe yet another Cambo from Tim. Decisions....
    Don Libby
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Once again I'm in agreement with Graham; the 35XL is tack sharp so long as you keep it away from an 80 megapixel back.

    So, we have 2-of these available one Alpa the other Cambo and maybe yet another Cambo from Tim. Decisions....
    I may be throwing in an Arca one in the mix, so we can have all bases covered

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    And no, I'm not trying to sell mine
    Stated confidently like a true born in the wool gear slut.

    Deep down inside everyone here secretly admires those who can subscribe to a buy-and-hold policy more often than not, particularly in this area of Dante's inferno.

    Once again, I look forward to show-and-tell at CI in Carmel!

    ken

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Maybe the Schneider/ALPA Apo-Switar 5.6/36 mm XL, LB is replacing the popularity of the 35mm?
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    Maybe the Schneider/ALPA Apo-Switar 5.6/36 mm XL, LB is replacing the popularity of the 35mm?
    The Alpa 36mm is a rebadge and slight adjustment to the Schneider 35mm. It's not a different lens.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Stated confidently like a true born in the wool gear slut.

    Deep down inside everyone here secretly admires those who can subscribe to a buy-and-hold policy more often than not, particularly in this area of Dante's inferno.

    ken
    Well, I find it far cheaper, easier and more legal to swap out lenses and cars than children and spouses. My wife has never disagreed with me on this
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    I really like the stellar performance of my SK Apo Digitar 35mm XL in YinYanCAM mount. I like to sell mine for $1500 but no taker yet. If I find a buyer for mine I would buy the ALPA version since it was hand selected. Despite my version was the unchoosen one but it is still sharper than any of my SLR wide angle lens. The point I am trying to say is that this is a good lens and you should not sell it. Wait I am contradicting myself. Never mind sell yours in ALPA mount so I can buy it. But I already have one why should I buy another one? Backup copy?

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by FSOT View Post
    .... Never mind sell yours in ALPA mount so I can buy it. ....
    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-...er-filter.html

    I know, I know. The enabler in all of us...

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by FSOT View Post
    I really like the stellar performance of my SK Apo Digitar 35mm XL in YinYanCAM mount. I like to sell mine for $1500 but no taker yet. If I find a buyer for mine I would buy the ALPA version since it was hand selected.
    For reference Arca, Cambo, and Alpa all do testing of every lens they receive from Rodenstock and Schneider and return any that do not meet their expectations. So saying that Alpa hand selects theirs in a way that seemingly implies they are unique in scrutinizing the lenses they receive is, I feel, a diservice to Arca and Cambo.

    As anyone with a Cambo or Arca with a 35XL can attest it is a great lens regardless of what platform you choose for it or how it's branded.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    For reference Arca, Cambo, and Alpa all do testing of every lens they receive from Rodenstock and Schneider and return any that do not meet their expectations. So saying that Alpa hand selects theirs in a way that seemingly implies they are unique in scrutinizing the lenses they receive is, I feel, a diservice to Arca and Cambo.

    As anyone with a Cambo or Arca with a 35XL can attest it is a great lens regardless of what platform you choose for it or how it's branded.
    I never like to pour salt onto nerve endings, so I never accused any company for not doing their homework. I am extremely happy (for the users) to know that Cambo and Arca Swiss also hand select their lens as we all know not all lens are made equal. I only use ALPA and thus can only attest to their quality and work flow. To be honest even if Cambo, Arca Swiss and ZinZanCam get better results than the ALPA, I still be using my ALPA SWA + SK 35 because I feel that it works best FOR ME.

    If Cambo, Arca Swiss and ALPa all hand select their lens then the question is who gets to select first or they all jump in at the same time?

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    I never like to pour salt onto nerve endings, so I never accused any company for not doing their homework. I am extremely happy (for the users) to know that Cambo and Arca Swiss also hand select their lens as we all know not all lens are made equal. I only use ALPA and thus can only attest to their quality and work flow. To be honest even if Cambo, Arca Swiss and ZinZanCam get better results than the ALPA, I still be using my ALPA SWA + SK 35 because I feel that it works best FOR ME.

    If Cambo, Arca Swiss and ALPA all hand select their lens then the question is who gets to select first or they all jump in at the same time?

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by FSOT View Post
    If Cambo, Arca Swiss and ALPA all hand select their lens then the question is who gets to select first or they all jump in at the same time?
    I think you are reading way too much into this and falling hook, line and sinker for all the Alpa marketing hype!

    To think that someone from Alpa goes to the Schneider factory, tests and hand selects the best of the 35XL's, leaving the not so good for Cambo,Arca and Linhof, then adding the integrated lens shade and rebranding to 36mm Switar's is just ridiculous.

    Looking at Alpa's website, the Switar page even states it used the same optical system as the 35XL and has no mention of it being any different other than a larger hood/filter ring than the regular lens. I see no mention of selecting the "best" lenses.

    Should a user of an Alpa mounted 35XL feel inadequate to a user of a Switar?

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by FSOT View Post

    If Cambo, Arca Swiss and ALPA all hand select their lens then the question is who gets to select first or they all jump in at the same time?
    I don't think it's an issue of being invited first and you sort through a barrel of lenses to pick the ones you want.

    Arca for example do all kinds of tests as they hand assemble each lens. The process is quite intensive as various bits are cooled down for assembly etc. Even the metals are chosen based on where there is intentional wear needed or not. I have a lens on order that has been recently released that is being prepped and I know there is some back and forth with the lens manufacturer to get it right.

    Bottom line is that these guys know each lens that leaves with their name on it, who worked on it and what if any quirks are existent. They only do a handful a month after all.

    BTW, I'm thinking of a post sometime ago on why it costs 1-2K for the mount, well this kind of precision requires time, money and some degree of OCD!
    Last edited by jagsiva; 5th February 2013 at 17:42.

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    A while back Paul Slotboom of the late Optechs told me that the story that Alpa hand selects lenses was a complete myth. It's standard Schneider or Rodenstock issue. They do put a new outer rim on several lenses, including the 35XL to it can take the more common 67mm filter thread, but that is it. I suspect it's the same story with the other brands. But if people would like to believe they are hand selected - be my guest.....

    Cheers, -Peter

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Now I am confused. So hand picked or no hand picked or blindly picked become hand picked?

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Tested, calibrated and either accepted or rejected. Just like everyone else.

    If it makes you feel better just assume that selection is done in alphabetical order I.e. Alpa, Arca, Cambo and Linhof ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by FSOT View Post
    Now I am confused. So hand picked or no hand picked or blindly picked become hand picked?
    This is from the STC review in LL:

    "I am told that all lenses purchased from Alpa are individually adjusted and calibrated following Alpa's and the manufacturer's specifications. This adjusting and calibrating is done while the lens is rotating – so the adjustments is not based just on one point in the center of the lens. The reason for this is that during rotation Alpa can discover any decentering, which is not possible by using a simpler process, as is done by the lens manufacturers themselves.

    Alpa has this done by both Schneider and Rodenstock, at Alpa's expense, and they have told me that to their knowledge no other reseller of those company's lenses takes this extra step.

    Additionally, all supplied lenses have Alpa's unique shutter blade interlock and size 0 shutters, with an Alpa shutter release button for hand-held shooting. "

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Thank You yongfei! This is the best explanation on this subject matter. Many thanks to your kindness.

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by yongfei View Post
    This is from the STC review in LL:

    "I am told that all lenses purchased from Alpa are individually adjusted and calibrated following Alpa's and the manufacturer's specifications. This adjusting and calibrating is done while the lens is rotating – so the adjustments is not based just on one point in the center of the lens. The reason for this is that during rotation Alpa can discover any decentering, which is not possible by using a simpler process, as is done by the lens manufacturers themselves.

    Alpa has this done by both Schneider and Rodenstock, at Alpa's expense, and they have told me that to their knowledge no other reseller of those company's lenses takes this extra step.

    Additionally, all supplied lenses have Alpa's unique shutter blade interlock and size 0 shutters, with an Alpa shutter release button for hand-held shooting. "
    While I love Lula, Alpa is one topic I'v always taken with a pound of salt when reading about on that site. The recent review of the FPS with an unwarranted bash at the HCAM was simply ungentlemanly. The review was later modified, without any statement as to why or an apology.

    Again, no offence to Alpa shooters here. Guys like Dan L. and Siebel are incredible artists and and I am always looking forward to their work. As with any of the 3 major tech cam vendors, it comes to personal preference, as most of us go down this route not just for the end-result, but the experience and tactile use of of quality equipment and a process that is as much a craft as anything else. I personally did not have a horse in this race until a few months ago when I bought the Arca.

    I would recommend anyone dropping this kind of coin to get real close to dealer.
    Last edited by jagsiva; 5th February 2013 at 19:53.

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Personally I prefer standard mounting, evaluate the performance myself and if I discover any decentering etc I send the lens back and get it fixed. Possibly messier, but cheaper. As long as quality issues are reasonably rare and is fixed when sent back I'm fine. If I'd be a professional though I would prefer the extra check made by Alpa (and some others) since my time would cost money and I would like to trust that stuff works top notch out of the box.

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Isn't this far enough off topic yet?

    And perhaps not everyone is looking for "more sophisticated cameras." No doubt ALPA's FPS is quite sophisticated, but that doesn't make me want one.
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Sorry for the delayed response but I wanted to check with all relevant manufacturers to make sure my information was based on the parties themselves and not 3rd party reviews or surrogates like distributors.

    ALL Arca Swiss and Cambo and Alpa lenses are tested and calibrated with the rotation method mentioned in the posts above. This process is in fact used to evaluate and correct for any decentering but Alpa is NOT unique in this regard.

    Furthermore Arca and Cambo do in-house quality-control testing of every item they manufacturer. This is greatly facilitated by the fact that both Arca and Cambo do their own manufacturing in-house.

    I have great respect for Alpa. They design great products and their manufacturing partner manufacturers them to a very high standard. My only problem is the idea floating around that Alpa is the only manufacturer who cares about or achieves precision. This is simply not true. I hope/assume this myth is simply overzealous pride by the owners, honest misunderstandings/mistranslation by reviewers/distributors or whatever.

    Honestly I think of the old adage that if you repeat (and heavily brand) something often enough it becomes the truth.

    The real truth is Cambo, Arca Swiss, and Alpa all make incredibly precise tech cameras. They all deserve great respect for carrying on the tradition of craftsmanship, refinement, and a diverse/vibrant ecosystem of products. In the case of Arca and Cambo they have been carrying this tradition on since the 1940s.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    ...The real truth is Cambo, Arca Swiss, and Alpa all make incredibly precise tech cameras. They all deserve great respect for carrying on the tradition of craftsmanship, refinement, and a diverse/vibrant ecosystem of products. In the case of Arca and Cambo they have been carrying this tradition on since the 1940s.
    I've never subscribed to the notion that mines better than yours. As far as I can see each tech cam manufacture makes excellent systems and if I were looking to get into a tech cam I'd be very hard pressed to choose just one. Same thing goes for the lenses.

    If it fits your hands then who cares about anything else?

    This has gone slightly off course from the question of what is a used Schneider worth? I'm interested in the answer as well since I have one for sale in a Cambo mount.
    Don Libby
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Hey Don---my Cambo is better than your Cambo...


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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Hey Don---my Cambo is better than your Cambo...

    Mine takes better pictures
    Don Libby
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    If it makes you feel better just assume that selection is done in alphabetical order I.e. Alpa, Arca, Cambo and Linhof ...
    I thought it was by age, wisdom, experience and tradition - i.e. Linhof (1887), Cambo (1945), Arca (1950s) and Alpa (1996) ...
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    I'm sure people from Arca/Cambo/Linhof sometimes dip into this forum and when they here Alpa owners makes all these "why I shoot Alpa" claims about their ultimate precision, they must wince thinking "we've done that for years!".

    Doug, you're like the masked magician unravelling all Alpas marketing department and expensive advertising agencies hard work...... Shame on you.
    Last edited by gazwas; 9th February 2013 at 12:34.

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    I love the simplicity of the ALPA and yet they still can make it with ultra precision.

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    I'm sure people from Arca/Cambo/Linhof sometimes dip into this forum and when they here Alpa owners makes all these "why I shoot Alpa" claims about their ultimate precision, they must wince thinking "we've done that for years!".

    Doug, your like the masked magician unravelling all Alpas marketing department and expensive advertising agencies hard work...... Shame on you.
    I don't think that even the Alpa fanboys here (i.e. myself included) drink the Alpa kool aid. All of these camera systems are magnificent pieces of precision engineering and I don't believe that any of the manufacturers put any more or less care into their production.

    I would note though that in the show us your tech cam section that there do seem to be a lot of Alpas on show. Maybe we just love our Alpas a little more
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Expensive advertising agencies? I guess I missed ALPA's Superbowl ads.
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Expensive advertising agencies? I guess I missed ALPA's Superbowl ads.
    So they built that snazzy website themselves? Some bloke off the lens calibration line has a friend who's son built it for a school project?

    Have you looked at Arca's website?
    Last edited by gazwas; 9th February 2013 at 12:25.

  41. #41
    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    So they built that snazzy website themselves as some bloke off the lens calibration line has a friend who's some built it for a school project?
    That does not even make sense ... check your grammar!
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    That does not even make sense ... check your grammar!
    Tell that to my iPhone!

    Thank you grammar (or should that be Alpa ) police, original post corrected.

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Arca's web designer will finish it up as soon as he gets that USB connector working for Phase One....

    Matt
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Reading the threads you'd begin to believe that the 35 XL Apo-Digitar is a pebble. It is anything BUT! Unless you're using the IQ180 or other 80mp digital back this lens is an absolute gem. Sharp. Movements. A very high quality lens with great sharpness and acuity.
    +1

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Unfortunately the market for tech cams are so small that some sub-markets just go near-dead, even if the products are good.

    Schneider 35mm is tougher to sell now when there are better performing although more expensive lenses, but also that the highest resolution digital backs don't support them well (color cast).

    But it can be worse, I'm trying to sell a Rodenstock Apo-Sironar digital 35mm and actually replace it with a Schneider 35mm . The Sironar is very economical and perfectly okay on lower res backs, but not on a higher res back and pixel-peep sickness (I got that), so it's very hard to find a buyer for it.

    The tech digital view camera market is tough too despite a few really good products, now when everyone wants pancakes .

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    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Unfortunately the market for tech cams are so small that some sub-markets just go near-dead, even if the products are good.

    Schneider 35mm is tougher to sell now when there are better performing although more expensive lenses, but also that the highest resolution digital backs don't support them well (color cast).

    But it can be worse, I'm trying to sell a Rodenstock Apo-Sironar digital 35mm and actually replace it with a Schneider 35mm . The Sironar is very economical and perfectly okay on lower res backs, but not on a higher res back and pixel-peep sickness (I got that), so it's very hard to find a buyer for it.

    The tech digital view camera market is tough too despite a few really good products, now when everyone wants pancakes .
    My APO-SIRONAR-DIGITAL 35mm was mounted on an ARCA SWISS 110 lens board and used with my ARCA 6x9/4x5 F-Line metric + CFV-16 .
    I tried to sell that lens without success .
    So , before I give that lens away for an apple and an egg , I decided to keep it and I got it adapted for the ALPA System .
    And I also decided to use 6x7 film with that lens again . The IC even allows small shifts .
    The currently used film back is the ARCA/HORSEMAN 6x7 .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Any Alpa mount 35XL's left out there?

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    But it can be worse, I'm trying to sell a Rodenstock Apo-Sironar digital 35mm and actually replace it with a Schneider 35mm . The Sironar is very economical and perfectly okay on lower res backs, but not on a higher res back and pixel-peep sickness (I got that), so it's very hard to find a buyer for it.
    Woohoo! Now my Rodenstock Apo-Sironal digital 35mm is sold (lowered the price to dead cheap and then interest finally appeared...) and I found a Schneider 35mm on Techno mount for $1800 to replace it with! Very happy with the lens so far, and not as hard on the ground glass as I thought it would be. Haven't had so much time to shoot for real with it though, only test images so far.

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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    I'm interested in buying a Schneider 35xl with center filter in a CAMBO mount for a good price ....

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    Senior Member Pemihan's Avatar
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    Re: Schneider 35XL? Price?

    I may have one for sale pretty soon. Just over a year old and as new.
    What do you consider a good price?
    Feel free to pm me..

    Peter

    Quote Originally Posted by Writewon View Post
    I'm interested in buying a Schneider 35xl with center filter in a CAMBO mount for a good price ....
    Peter
    My website
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