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Thread: P45+ used - help on history

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    P45+ used - help on history

    After looking around for a while, I have found a private sale P45+. The firmware currently installed is 2.9.8. This is a little strange given that the current firmware is 5.1.2, but I don't necessarily want to pass up the chance to get this back.

    My main concern, having read a number of posts here, that the early P45+ models did not take the firmware upgrade to do the 60m exposure and needed to be sent back to the factory. Is this accurate, and does anyone know if Phase still support this? THe back appears to be in good condition with approx 15K shots. The other issue that worries me is that the S/N is a DT0000XXX as in one of the first 1000 units assuming phase does this sequentially.

    I also found this on the P1 forum (posted in 2009), but could not really decipher anything for it.

    "2.9.8 is current for your back.
    3.2.6 firmware is only applicable to a specific production range of P+, and can potentially create problems units with non 3.2.6 compatible hardware. This is why we do not make it publicly available."

    PS. My preference is always the dealer, but I cannot appear to locate one at this time.

    Appreciate any advice before....Cheers,

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    Re: P45+ used - help on history

    There is one here in Paris at the local dealer, I believe it is a pretty good deal ~ 5500 euros comes with 6 month warranty I believe. I can talk to my dealer if that is of interest to you.

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    Re: P45+ used - help on history

    Quote Originally Posted by shortpballer View Post
    There is one here in Paris at the local dealer, I believe it is a pretty good deal ~ 5500 euros comes with 6 month warranty I believe. I can talk to my dealer if that is of interest to you.
    PM Sent

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    Re: P45+ used - help on history

    We also have a p45+ on our shelf. At least today we do. With 1 year warranty, very low shot count, mint condition.

    Very long exposures do require firmware more recent than 2.9.8. Firmware 3.2.6 and 4.8.4 were the major milestones before the current 5.1.2. In addition to long exposure these modern firmware versions also enabled compatibility with modern CF card read/write protocols. When updating very old firmware backs, depending on the serial number and situation it can sometimes be best to do them incrementally (step them up one major milestone release at a time). I'd suggest clients contact and work with their dealer on all firmware updates, but *especially* if they are jumping up from 2.9.8 (as updating from 2.9.8 there are some caveats and weirdnesses that can come up like an error informing you that PAVR is mismatched). If a back has a problem with a firmware update its covered under warranty but if out of warranty and it has to go to the motherland for repair the price will be on you.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: P45+ used - help on history

    To answer your first question, yes there were certain p45+ backs that would not take the update to the firmware level required to take a 1 hour exposure. I owned one. I can't remember the level of firmware that was required for the back to work with 1 hour exposures others on this forum might remember. But I do remember what happens if the back has a problem doing the upgrade, a total DOA. It will need to be sent back to phaseone if this happens as mine did. But mine was under value add warranty. I would double ck before you buy!

    Paul Caldwell

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    Re: P45+ used - help on history

    Doug, I looked at the list that Lance put up on the Commercial vendor section, and while there are couple of P45's, I did not see a P45+. I am just on a bunch of calls now, but will call you right after.

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    Re: P45+ used - help on history

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    I am just on a bunch of calls now, but will call you right after.
    I'll be here.

    As long as the snowpocalypse doesn't swallow me.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Some Backround...

    Some background for this new endeavour...

    I am looking at doing some IR at 830nm, with a possibility of some wide field astrophotography on a tracked mount.

    These are the options I have considered:

    Option A - Phase
    I like that Phase will replace the filter and covert to full-spectrum and adjust sensor distance etc. They are one of the few vendors that do this. I can make full use of the Arca tech cam for this work.

    - I could convert my IQ180, but this affects the workflow for the majority of my work and also not sure I want to screw around with an IQ180

    - Find a P45+ and convert it. Great back, and I have the super long exposures for Astro. I would use on-lens filters with the clear (full-spectrum) on the sensor. The back would have to go to Phase anyway so firmware issues can be addressed by them. Added bonus could be that C1 has a bunch of stuff they did to support the Achromat+ that I could leverage, again not sure how useful it will be as the Achromat+ had the CFA removed as well, but certainly cannot hurt.

    **A P45 appears to be a "cheaper" compromise, but I am not convinced it would be the right move.

    - Find a P65+ and convert it. Again, a proven performer. Same sensor size as my IQ180, but long-exposure limitations, but again can use Arca. I could make do with a higher degree of stacking with shorter exposures, but again a compromise.

    Option B - Nikon
    D800's are cheap. I could pickup a couple for 5K and convert 1 to 830nm on the sensor, and the second to full-spectrum. The 830nm on sensor conversion resolves filter issues on lenses like the 14-24 or ZF 15mm. I could also use longer lenses. I spoke to Spencer's camera in Utah and they are willing to do this for me. For the on-sensor modification, they will caliberate focus via the OVF. For the on-lens, full-spectrum conversion, I will have to use Live View.

    Negatives would be that I have another kit to lug around. I am also not sure I would get the look I'm after. Having said that, my main beef with my current D800 is OOC colours, and for this purpose, it may not be as much of an issue.

    At this point, I think I am leaning towards a P45+ if I can find out in reasonable condition/price. Of course, If I go D800, I could buddy up with a certain somebody and be in a combo D800/GX680 shooting Nirvana/bliss!!! (sorry, could not resist)


    OT question - is there an equivalent ND filter for IR? What happens if I want to reduce the IR level hitting the sensor, clearly a normal ND filter will not work as it would only block the visible part of the spectrum.

    Thanks again.

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    Re: P45+ used - help on history

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    I'll be here.

    As long as the snowpocalypse doesn't swallow me.
    yeah, tell me about it, although I am having crazy thoughts of taking the 32HR out for a spin Need to go dig out the snow shoes in the basement!

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    Re: Some Backround...

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    - Find a P45+ and convert it. Great back, and I have the super long exposures for Astro. I would use on-lens filters with the clear (full-spectrum) on the sensor.
    We have both a 45 and 45+. I might suggest you consider the 45 as well. It can do around 5ish minutes at room temperature (the only non + back which is like this) and more when it's cold outside (and less if it's especially hot), and will be a bit less than a 45+ if your budget is getting stretched.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: P45+ used - help on history

    Jag,

    Talk to Doug about the P45+ conversion. I know also that if necessary you can also get a new P45+ with conversion (a friend of mine has one on order) but full spectrum conversion of a good used one is the more cost effective solution.

    Regarding the ND filters, I'd take a look at the LEE or Schneider glass NDs. These don't have specific IR filtration. If you don't mind screw on then the B+W ND are definitely IR porous (as I know from experience). The exact level of attenuation may not be the same between visible and IR though.

    I like my full spectrum D800 although to be honest I also shoot most of the time with the 830nm 'black & white' filter on it. If I were buying again today, and given that Spencer's now can do IR pass-through filters on sensor, I'd get a converted 830nm D800.

    I'm now playing with my Leaf Aptus 65 without the IR filter on it. It's a cheap fun alternative although limited on exposure to 30s.

    You do need to be aware of hot spots with glass. So far I've only been burned with Zeiss ZF and a few Nikon lenses such as the 24/2 AIS. Using IR cut filters with full spectrum can be a pain also due to the need for LV for accurate focus. However, overall it's a fun alternative to 'normal' shooting at other times of the day than morning/evening golden light.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: P45+ used - help on history

    Thanks Graham. I am talking to Lance about some possibilities with DT.

    Still debating P45+ vs P65+ as the B&W DR and resolution are still more important to me than the long-exposure. D800 remains a more cost-effective, all-rounder. If I go the D800 route, I will get one with 830nm and one full spectrum, for the simple reason that I don't want to fuss around with filters on lenses like the 14-24 or 200/F2.

    I don't use any Zeiss glass. Nonetheless, is LCC an option for resolving hotspot issues?

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    Re: P45+ used - help on history

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    I don't use any Zeiss glass. Nonetheless, is LCC an option for resolving hotspot issues?
    On a nikon-system Zeiss is not the best way on IR. I made much color-IR in the past; sold my IR-camera about one year ago and would buy a new one D700/D800 some day in the future for this.

    Hotspots are a lens-problem. If you find some good glasses, you don't should have any problems. To find this, here ist a compact list from me:

    NP-Wissen » IR-taugliche/-untaugliche Hardware
    Started in 2007; last entries two years ago. Most Zeiss-lenses here in the "not so good section".

    An other way to find your "perfect lens", should be Bjørn Rørslett. Here.
    __________________
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    P.S.: If your wife knows everything... it's mostly not good for your gear.

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    Re: P45+ used - help on history

    Btw, the LEE pro glass ND's are optimized for digital so actually do have UV/IR filtration so not so good if you want to shoot those types of images. The resin ND's however don't.

    With regard to hotspots, I found this a very useful resource:
    Lens Hotspot Performance Database | Kolari Vision Infrared
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: P45+ used - help on history

    Thanks Graham!

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