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Thread: Return of the Warrior

  1. #51
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Interesting results Tim.

    Looking at your files I can conclude two things.

    1. The Nikon/Zeiss and Phase/Schneider files look equally as good as each other and the only obvious difference being resolution.

    2. The Zeiss 21mm lens you used is not worth the money and gives very poor results away from the centre. Who actually makes good wide lenses for 35mm FF that are sharp across the frame?
    We violently agree on both counts: my review of the Zeiss said that it's good but in the final analysis a better lens is needed and I've spent a lot of time looking for a really good wide on the D800. The best bets I have so far are either the 28mm F1.8G if focussed correctly (i.e. taking into account its field curvature) or the Samyang 14mm F2.8 (if you don't mind the distortion). Otherwise, all the choices seem compromised in one way or another though of course there are some that I've read about and not tried...

  2. #52
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    1. Are you sure your Zeiss 21 works up to spec Tim?
    2. Have you tried the Nikkor 17-35mm (zoom!!!) at the 21-28mm range at f5.6-8 in comparison to the Zeiss and allowing for its field curvature?
    3. I would expect you to contribute (both you and "gazwas") to a thread I started http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-f...l-survive.html to the best of your thoughts... Thanks.

  3. #53
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoros Fotometria View Post
    1. Are you sure your Zeiss 21 works up to spec Tim?
    2. Have you tried the Nikkor 17-35mm (zoom!!!) at the 21-28mm range at f5.6-8 in comparison to the Zeiss and allowing for its field curvature?
    3. I would expect you to contribute (both you and "gazwas") to a thread I started http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-f...l-survive.html to the best of your thoughts... Thanks.
    I reviewed this copy of the lens and said of it:
    "I know from MTF charts that this lens has some sub-field weakness at mid-apertures and generally more sagital than tangential. I don't believe that my body has notable misalignments of mount or sensor (I have my reasons and I have about an 85% certainty of this) but I do suspect a very minor misalignment of an element or group in my copy of the lens. Not enough to fuss over, certainly not firmly diagnosed, but I have my suspicions... however, odd effects, when inconsistent, tend to be multi-factorial and can take a long time to track down."

    I can't add more really - but Lloyd Chambers has also had subtly odd and inconsistent results with his and I think in fact from other reviews I've read that mine is within norms, though it might be possible after a lot of returning or repairing to get a slightly better one.

    I don't have the 17-35 and I must say that with my experience of Nikon zooms I can't be bothered to get one, find that it doesn't work as expected, and then have the embarrassment of a return or the annoyance of a fruitless argument with Nikon 'service'!

  4. #54
    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    I look at files from the Canon 17 & 24mm TS-E lenses and weep.

    If only Canon made a body that took full advantage of them...

  5. #55
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    I look at files from the Canon 17 & 24mm TS-E lenses and weep.

    If only Canon made a body that took full advantage of them...
    Amen...
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  6. #56
    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    I'd literally go out and buy a D800E tomorrow if there was a lens of around 20mm that took advantage of the camera.

    I'm even considering buying a 5D111 just to use the TS-E lenses. I'm that desperate.

  7. #57
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    There's the 24mm Samyang perspective control coming up, I have a request in for a review copy so I'll let you know.

    But let's take a step back here: the files I posted higher up this thread from D800/Zeiss 21 and IQ180/Schneider 35XL are, in a 36" print, impossible to choose between for detail and clarity. So unless you need to print larger than that or crop a fair bit, even teh compromised Zeiss 21mm F2.8 is pretty good!

  8. #58
    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    There's the 24mm Samyang perspective control coming up, I have a request in for a review copy so I'll let you know.

    But let's take a step back here: the files I posted higher up this thread from D800/Zeiss 21 and IQ180/Schneider 35XL are, in a 36" print, impossible to choose between for detail and clarity. So unless you need to print larger than that or crop a fair bit, even teh compromised Zeiss 21mm F2.8 is pretty good!
    Tim, thanks, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the Samyang but was hoping for a wider solution. If it does deliver - looks very much like the Nikon which doesn't fill me with confidence - I may buy the Samyang and the Zeiss.

    There again I might even go with the 5D.

    Sheesh, this stuff is never easy!

  9. #59
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    So after several months sojourn at my dealer, for sale, the IQ180 and Phase DF body return to base unsold.

    I think the problem was that the dealer is unofficially constrained as to what price they can offer 'nearly new' gear at, so as not to p*ss off Phase.
    Not sure I fully understand this bit. You were attempting to sell your back/camera through a dealer, yes? But the dealer wasn't prepared to sell it a price you'd have been happy to let it go for - is that what you're implying?

    If you wanted rid of it, why not simply offer it directly at a price you'd have been happy to accept?

  10. #60
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Not sure I fully understand this bit. You were attempting to sell your back/camera through a dealer, yes? But the dealer wasn't prepared to sell it a price you'd have been happy to let it go for - is that what you're implying?

    If you wanted rid of it, why not simply offer it directly at a price you'd have been happy to accept?
    Easy answer: every time I sell something on eBay that's worth more than a few hundred, I risk some arse trying to scam me. Famously an M8.2 that was clearly indicated as for sale to delivery address in UK only - and after the auction closed I get an email asking me to post it Nigeria with payment by Western Union... HIgh value items are more comforting sold through a dealer for those reasons and more comforting bought from a dealer because of warranties and so on.

    I think this differs a bit in the US, where the GetDPI For Sale board and similar are effectively operating in a private community of people known to each other and with a level of trust on both sides. But there are far fewer opportunities to sell in this manner in Europe... sadly.

    But I am open to offers!

  11. #61
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Tim, thanks, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the Samyang but was hoping for a wider solution. If it does deliver - looks very much like the Nikon which doesn't fill me with confidence - I may buy the Samyang and the Zeiss.

    There again I might even go with the 5D.

    Sheesh, this stuff is never easy!
    You're right, SO not easy. But much as the D800 fills me with mistrust and irritation, it does produce astonishingly good files if you give up expecting it to be perfect and go along with its foibles...

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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Easy answer: every time I sell something on eBay that's worth more than a few hundred, I risk some arse trying to scam me. Famously an M8.2 that was clearly indicated as for sale to delivery address in UK only - and after the auction closed I get an email asking me to post it Nigeria with payment by Western Union... HIgh value items are more comforting sold through a dealer for those reasons and more comforting bought from a dealer because of warranties and so on.

    I think this differs a bit in the US, where the GetDPI For Sale board and similar are effectively operating in a private community of people known to each other and with a level of trust on both sides. But there are far fewer opportunities to sell in this manner in Europe... sadly.

    But I am open to offers!
    So the dealer wasn't prepared to sell it at the price you'd have been willing to accept?

    That's pretty distasteful really, not to mention possibly illegally maintaining a false market.

  13. #63
    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Interesting results Tim.

    Looking at your files I can conclude two things.

    1. The Nikon/Zeiss and Phase/Schneider files look equally as good as each other and the only obvious difference being resolution.

    2. The Zeiss 21mm lens you used is not worth the money and gives very poor results away from the centre. Who actually makes good wide lenses for 35mm FF that are sharp across the frame?
    I wouldn't argue with this but I do think the phase color is more attractive..and the increase in resolution is noticeable...

  14. #64
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    So the dealer wasn't prepared to sell it at the price you'd have been willing to accept?

    That's pretty distasteful really, not to mention possibly illegally maintaining a false market.
    As we got a few months in and I said I wanted it back, he hinted very strongly that this was the problem. I can say no more!

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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    I'm jumping in a bit late on this thread as I'm in the middle of moving from Malaysia to Switzerland.
    Tim, I have some reservations about your conclusions about your torture test.
    The 35XL, for all its vaunted reputation, simply does not have the resolving power to match the IQ180. I had one, and have tested several others and my view is that it does not come close to the res my 23HR or 40HR deliver. Good, but not great is how I would describe it. Hence, your test is in my view not producing the best file the IQ180 is capable of.
    However, taking on board your other considerations, I think your general thoughts on the right gear for you are fair enough. For me, I have decided that 35mm platform is useless, and am selling all my gear and will shoot almost exclusively IQ180/Alpa STC/ Rodenstock glass. I have a DF system, but it only gets used occasionally, usually when I need longer lenses for people shots.
    BTW, I can assure you that Phase does not have any instructions to its dealers re: pricing on used gear. That's a decision individual dealers make. Of course as a commercial decision, it doesn't make sense to devalue the market. Best you sell privately. It takes a little effort, but I have sold my P25, P65+ and Aptus 12 this way.
    Good luck with the journey!
    Cheers,
    Siebel
    "In the end, it's all about the pictures"
    www.bryansiebel.com

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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    BTW, I can assure you that Phase does not have any instructions to its dealers re: pricing on used gear. That's a decision individual dealers make. Of course as a commercial decision, it doesn't make sense to devalue the market.
    What is it that is unique about the second-hand market for MFDB's that it doesn't make sense for the products to be priced in such a way that they actually get sold?

    There is no market without a buyer. The only thing you have if you over-value your stock is an inflated balance sheet that will come back and bite you hard one day. This stuff doesn't appreciate.

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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    BTW, I can assure you that Phase does not have any instructions to its dealers re: pricing on used gear. That's a decision individual dealers make. Of course as a commercial decision, it doesn't make sense to devalue the market. Best you sell privately. It takes a little effort, but I have sold my P25, P65+ and Aptus 12 this way.
    Good luck with the journey!
    Cheers,
    You forgot to mention that you were willing to travel to buyer's destination. I think it plays a big role in your success in sales.
    Little advice to the potential sellers of expensive equipment (Tashley and others) from buyers perspective ( I was looking for DMF solution for a year and finally bought IQ160 on these forums) - you should be prepared to fly over to the buyer. I know it can take 2-3 days of your time, but, we are talking of 20000 - 25000 $ that you are collecting. Just because you don't want to spend 2-3 days on the road it could stay unsold for 6-12 moths.
    Tashley, don't sell it on Ebay. There are many honest potential buyers on these forums, I'm sure.

  18. #68
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    That point about being willing to travel is really important. Hey guys, I will travel to anywhere in the EU to deliver this system and no reasonable offer will be refused!

  19. #69
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    I'm jumping in a bit late on this thread as I'm in the middle of moving from Malaysia to Switzerland.
    Tim, I have some reservations about your conclusions about your torture test.
    The 35XL, for all its vaunted reputation, simply does not have the resolving power to match the IQ180. I had one, and have tested several others and my view is that it does not come close to the res my 23HR or 40HR deliver. Good, but not great is how I would describe it. Hence, your test is in my view not producing the best file the IQ180 is capable of.
    Cheers,
    Fascinating, thank you: it has so often been stressed that the reason to switch into the Rodies is the better handling of colour vignetting. But the shots I have been seeing from the 35XL do indeed not seem to me to offer the sort of resolution across the field that I would expect. Question answered. Very useful information!

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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Hello Tim,

    did you ever try the Contax CY version of the 21f2.8 lens? I compared it at a dealer with the ZE version and it easily outperformed it reg. corner sharpness. I only can show sample pics* by 5D2, so only 6.4um resolution instead of the 4.8um resolution of a D800 but I think still one can see the quality. I think the CY lenses also can be adapted via Leitax on Nikon bodies.
    Two files for download:
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18437364/dp...f11_5D2-01.tif
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18437364/dp...f11_5D2-02.tif
    *Distortion corrected with Alpa lens corrector plugin for PS.

    On the iQ180 I recommend for that angle of view the Contax 645 35f3.5 Distagon. Pls check the following link. Tack sharp corner to corner at f11. Of course no LCC required. Shot with monopod at 1/45s.
    Here is the file for your evaluation:
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18437364/dp...1_iQ180-01.tif
    (160 MB ... might take some minutes for upload to the dropbox)

    Christoph

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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Regarding printing large why not consider it for your own pleasure and not for selling purpose ?
    I foolishly thinks that making some kind of art starts by indulging yourself

    Regarding wide angle lenses quality not matching the D800 sensor quality, we can also say that the D800 shouldn't be recommended for wide angle shots because its sensor doesn't match the wide angle lenses market standards.
    Pixels density is too high, current wide angle lenses cannot cope with it.

    This is the main justification for using the IQ and its big sensor.
    Rodenstock lenses are supposed to match the IQ backs expectations.
    T/S is available. There is no need to software correct perspective and then software correct objects proportions and then add some software sharpness to try masking those destructive operations.
    And expensive lenses with low production volumes do offer high and consistant level of quality control.
    And there is no mirror slap ruining your sharpness with copal shutters and tech cams.
    This is all logic and consistent.
    (I'm mainly speaking about my needs (architecture).

    I think you're adding contradiction to the equation when trying to get high quality IQ wide angle shots from a dslr system and won't find a solution.
    How should Nikon/lenses producers for dslr offer all that in the wide angle range and at such a good level that it will satisfy medium format users ?

  22. #72
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Tim,

    I also own the same camera combinations as you, though I am Alpa based for MF. I also have a 9900 so I usually print either 36 inches in the long direction or 40 inches. With my latest print test comparing the 800e (50mm Zeiss Planar f2) against the IQ180 (Schneider 100mm digitar) I found that at 40 inches there was an advantage with the IQ180 but it took an experienced person to see the difference and then it was only on certain highly detailed portions of the image. I printed some crops on Epson Enhanced Matt paper and took them to my local camera dealer to see if anyone could tell the difference. Almost everyone found them to be identical.

    I hear everything you are saying - especially regarding wides for either system. I have become so disappointed with wides that I won't go wider than my 50mm Zeiss on the 800e or 60mm Schneider Digitar on my Alpa. That's it for me! If I need wider then I'll do a 2 or 3 shot pano. Much better results than soft edges on wides. Even my 35mm Zeiss f2 is somewhat disappointing compared to the 50mm Zeiss. It isn't so much the edges but more the micro contrast and micro detail that the 50mm extracts. I am, now, begin very picky..... I hope Zeiss had me in mind when they decided to manufacture their new lens line.

    Victor
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  23. #73
    Senior Member Ed Hurst's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    In case it's of interest, I am going to be using the Zeiss 15mm with a D800E in the hope that this wholly new design might do the D800E's sensor justice. Time will tell!

  24. #74
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Tim,

    I also own the same camera combinations as you, though I am Alpa based for MF. I also have a 9900 so I usually print either 36 inches in the long direction or 40 inches. With my latest print test comparing the 800e (50mm Zeiss Planar f2) against the IQ180 (Schneider 100mm digitar) I found that at 40 inches there was an advantage with the IQ180 but it took an experienced person to see the difference and then it was only on certain highly detailed portions of the image. I printed some crops on Epson Enhanced Matt paper and took them to my local camera dealer to see if anyone could tell the difference. Almost everyone found them to be identical.

    I hear everything you are saying - especially regarding wides for either system. I have become so disappointed with wides that I won't go wider than my 50mm Zeiss on the 800e or 60mm Schneider Digitar on my Alpa. That's it for me! If I need wider then I'll do a 2 or 3 shot pano. Much better results than soft edges on wides. Even my 35mm Zeiss f2 is somewhat disappointing compared to the 50mm Zeiss. It isn't so much the edges but more the micro contrast and micro detail that the 50mm extracts. I am, now, begin very picky..... I hope Zeiss had me in mind when they decided to manufacture their new lens line.

    Victor
    Victor, beg borrow buy or steal a Sony RX-1: it is the only wide-ish lens on full frame I know that is reliably sharp to the edges and corners and for prints to 32" will beat any mid-wide lens I have yet tried on a D800! Otherwise the Samyang 14mm F2.8 does the trick!

  25. #75
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by anGy View Post
    Regarding printing large why not consider it for your own pleasure and not for selling purpose ?
    I foolishly thinks that making some kind of art starts by indulging yourself
    Ahh but if I'm going to devote that much wall space, it has to be really good - i.e. by someone else!

    Quote Originally Posted by anGy View Post
    Regarding wide angle lenses quality not matching the D800 sensor quality, we can also say that the D800 shouldn't be recommended for wide angle shots because its sensor doesn't match the wide angle lenses market standards.
    Pixels density is too high, current wide angle lenses cannot cope with it.

    This is the main justification for using the IQ and its big sensor.
    Rodenstock lenses are supposed to match the IQ backs expectations.
    T/S is available. There is no need to software correct perspective and then software correct objects proportions and then add some software sharpness to try masking those destructive operations.
    And expensive lenses with low production volumes do offer high and consistant level of quality control.
    And there is no mirror slap ruining your sharpness with copal shutters and tech cams.
    This is all logic and consistent.
    (I'm mainly speaking about my needs (architecture).

    I think you're adding contradiction to the equation when trying to get high quality IQ wide angle shots from a dslr system and won't find a solution.
    How should Nikon/lenses producers for dslr offer all that in the wide angle range and at such a good level that it will satisfy medium format users ?
    I agree but I do think it'll come: so many people have no 'gone D800' from MF that the demand is there, and as Canon and Nikon head towards the 50-70mp bracket on FF, there will certainly be demand. Where there's a will, there's a way! And as I just replied to Victor, the Zeiss 35mm on the Sony RX-1 can 'do' at least moderately wide from edge to edge on full frame, and despite an occasional slight mid-field weakness, I think that lens would scale quite well to a 36mp sensor.

  26. #76
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by chrismuc View Post
    Hello Tim,


    On the iQ180 I recommend for that angle of view the Contax 645 35f3.5 Distagon. Pls check the following link.

    Christoph
    Thanks Christoph, that was pretty impressive! But I am selling, nonetheless! The question now is, what is the going price for an IQ180 with less than 2,000 shots on it with a DF body, 80mm kit lens and Cambo Wide RS with Schneider 35XL...

  27. #77
    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Victor, beg borrow buy or steal a Sony RX-1: it is the only wide-ish lens on full frame I know that is reliably sharp to the edges and corners and for prints to 32" will beat any mid-wide lens I have yet tried on a D800! Otherwise the Samyang 14mm F2.8 does the trick!
    Just wondering if you have tried the new 15mm Zeiss?

  28. #78
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    Just wondering if you have tried the new 15mm Zeiss?
    No, I though of getting one but having intensively read the reviews and taking into account that by absolute standards it is an amazing lens I got the Samyang. I am routinely and easily able to get it perfectly sharp across the frame with lovely detail and frankly, with the price differential, I'd be paying multiples for a lens that seems to me no better other than in terms of distortion.

  29. #79
    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    No, I though of getting one but having intensively read the reviews and taking into account that by absolute standards it is an amazing lens I got the Samyang. I am routinely and easily able to get it perfectly sharp across the frame with lovely detail and frankly, with the price differential, I'd be paying multiples for a lens that seems to me no better other than in terms of distortion.
    Good point,I have a Zeiss 15 in canon mount and also have the 17TSE.. I think the tse is better value for money,Hopefully Nikon will release a 17mm PC soon as I am using a D800E now..

    But pound for pound the Samyang is tough to beat..

  30. #80
    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Who actually makes good wide lenses for 35mm FF that are sharp across the frame?
    Leica M - but then they won't mount on an SLR
    My Tumblr
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  31. #81
    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior


  32. #82
    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Amen...

    I have both of these,thought of selling them but I am holding on to them in hope of a canon body that has a sensor to match the D800E

  33. #83
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    Not released yet but I have a request in with Samyang UK for a review copy...

  34. #84
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed HUrst View Post
    In case it's of interest, I am going to be using the Zeiss 15mm with a D800E in the hope that this wholly new design might do the D800E's sensor justice. Time will tell!
    Ed, it would be of great interest. It's a little wider than I'd envisaged buying but I figure if the edges are a somewhat soft I can always crop a little. Distortion seems to be simple barrel which is a bonus.

    I'd be interested to hear other's experiences of this lens.
    http://www.keithlaban.co.uk
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  35. #85
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    I have both of these,thought of selling them but I am holding on to them in hope of a canon body that has a sensor to match the D800E
    I'd love for that to happen too. It would answer so many wishes! I can't see it happening though, unless Canon really makes a sensor breakthrough or buys them in. As far as I can see, they're more video and 'working pro' oriented and the particular group of working pros they cater to actually don't seem to need huge prints, but do need really reliable systems, great AF and great after sales service. The dark horse here is Sony....

  36. #86
    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I'd love for that to happen too. It would answer so many wishes! I can't see it happening though, unless Canon really makes a sensor breakthrough or buys them in. As far as I can see, they're more video and 'working pro' oriented and the particular group of working pros they cater to actually don't seem to need huge prints, but do need really reliable systems, great AF and great after sales service. The dark horse here is Sony....
    I think there is a high res body in development,I am guessing that a new fabrication process is in the works,I agree with your comments on canon,it seems to dominate the sports photog world and is everywhere in reportage and fashion(I wonder if the 85mm 1.2 has anything to do with that. fashion photogs love that lens.. )

    Full Frame DSLR Cameras Part II ? Canon stays the course | Technology Blog

  37. #87
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    I'm sure they'll get the resolution right, but they have never really cracked the banding and DR issues. I really like Canon, shot them for years right back the the early digitals, and their build, design and QC is great. But Nikon were always good at spotting the gaps...

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    If anyone is interested the following is a link to comparisons between the Nikon 14-24, Zeiss 15mm and the Samyang 14.

    http://http://3d-kraft.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=127:u wa-comparison&catid=40:camerasandlenses&Itemid=2

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    Senior Member Ed Hurst's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Interesting! I must admit (having ordered the Zeiss 15mm), I am a little disconcerted to see it being beaten in edge resolution by the 14-24. I knew the zoom was good, but I had hoped the new prime would at least equal it in this respect. However, for me, the killer issue is flare. I have already had one shot spoilt by the 14-24's tendency to pick up flare due to its bulbous front element. I am hoping upon hope that the Zeiss (with its flatter front element and good, built-in hood) does not have this problem.

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Ed, yes, the Zeiss was a little sharper in the centre but the edges were surprisingly poor. The Samyang was a non-starter for my applications; the distortion was just too extreme and complex.

    Having decided to dismiss the Nikon and Samyang 24mm T/S lenses because they just aren't wide enough I'm now veering towards the Nikon zoom, which, it has to be said, is a mile from where I thought I'd be.

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    I should add that I'm aware that the Nikon 14-24 has focus shift issues but as I would be using it on a tripod with live-view it is essentially a non-issue.

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    Senior Member Ed Hurst's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    I see where you're coming from. But watch for that flare. I read about it before trying the lens but had no idea it was so susceptible. Sounds like something easily avoided with care, but with such a wide angle of view, that is far from the case...

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed HUrst View Post
    I see where you're coming from. But watch for that flare. I read about it before trying the lens but had no idea it was so susceptible. Sounds like something easily avoided with care, but with such a wide angle of view, that is far from the case...
    Thanks, Ed. Should I go the zoom route - and I've never gone there before -I'll keep it in mind.

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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed HUrst View Post
    I see where you're coming from. But watch for that flare. I read about it before trying the lens but had no idea it was so susceptible. Sounds like something easily avoided with care, but with such a wide angle of view, that is far from the case...
    Ed is right! I recently had a brief encounter with the Zeiss 15mm and performed some quick informal test shots with it vs. the 14-24. I'd say it was a toss up of sorts. Edge sharpness went to the 14-24...center sharpness went "slightly to somewhat" to the Zeiss but that gap closed upon stopping down and lastly I could provoke flair far easier with the zoom. Surprised me how big the Zeiss was (similar to the 14-24) but it's mass/weight was less.

    A bit of an issue I had with the Zeiss is if one crops the sides, then they are approaching 16/17mm and although the Zeiss 18mm may not have quite the acuity, when price/performance is taken into consieration, it's a viable option.

    Nothing reveals more than long term use of a lens to get to know it's strenghts and weaknesses and as long as my experiences have been with the 14-24, I only had just a very brief encounter with the Zeiss 15mm.

    None of these results are surprising from what others have observed.

    *** I forgot to add that I've shot the Sammy 14mm, and although in most instances, distortion can be fairly easily corrected, I've so far opted to stay with the 14-24...although I am using it less for my uses and might reconsider.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 19th February 2013 at 06:29.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    The Samyang has pretty good flare characteristics. Take a look at these four shots, the first three shots as a series to show what happens at various angles to the sun.





    and one to show how a very bright, blown source affects a dark scene (shadows pumped up to 100 in LR):


    All files uncorrected for distortion.

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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Tim, am I interpreting this incorrectly? That last shot (the interior), was shot with the Samyang without any distortion correction applied? If so, I'm surprised by the straight lines towards the sides/edges knowing how this lens generally performs with such scenes.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 19th February 2013 at 07:11.

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    ...and lastly I could provoke flair far easier with the zoom.
    Yes, thanks, I hear you both.

    Should I get it, the 14-24 would always be used on a tripod. As a matter of course when using these wides I - or more often my hard working assistant, otherwise known as wife - always shield the lens from any direct sunlight.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Tim, am I interpreting this incorrectly? That last shot (the interior), was shot with the Samyang without any distortion correction applied? If so, I'm surprised by by the straights towards the sides/edges knowing how this lens generally performs with such scenes.

    Dave (D&A)
    Handheld, focussed by eye, no corrections... no wonder there's a version branded ROKinon. It rocks.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    I rarely bother to correct: when it needs it, it's obvious...



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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Return of the Warrior

    The other reason I've dismissed the Samyang is that most of the time it would be way too wide with a rendition of perspective that is just too extreme.

    The 14-24 would allow the option to use it on the odd occasion at the wider focal lengths but would also deliver far more versatility.

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