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Thread: So much for debate..

  1. #1
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    So much for debate..

    It seems disagreement with the moderators leads to a closed thread...again.

    Regardless of whether a topic has been discussed, most new members don't search the archives for reference, they read the new threads and comment appropriately. Even if they did, planned obsolescence would most likely be outdated anyway. The word forum means exchanging ideas and views on a particular issue, and in this case MFD photography. By locking threads, it seems to imply that there's more to this issue...

    By regulating comment conducted in a respectful manner diminishes the validity of a forum for objective opinion. This is not the first time a MFD thread has been closed if you disagree with the moderators viewpoint, and this mostly applies to this particular section. Some are more emotional about their MFD investment - and rightfully so, but closing a thread is not effective, and certainly not objective, and leaves plenty of room for debate...

    P.S.
    I would strongly encourage this forum to be open about criticism about MFD because it might guide MFD companies, (and not just advertisers) to effectively gauge and consider this to be more like a focus group that's an integral segment of this profession.
    Last edited by johnnygoesdigital; 25th February 2013 at 12:46.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    I'm checking why. Was not me
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  3. #3
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    My bets are on Bob...

    Emotions tend to run high at these price points, that's quite understandable, but mediating should be left to objective individuals, who are not tainted or offended as a result of their personal beliefs...then it just becomes an autocracy.

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    Re: So much for debate..



    I thought DMF was dead. That Smilie with the horse sums up these threads.

    Someone says that MF is dead, that the D800 has killed it. Or, now that the D800 exists, what need is there for more. Or, how can MF exist without useful live view or ultra high ISO, or fast autofocus.

    And then there's a long discussion with the same back and forth, and it finally peters out. ONLY TO COME BACK AGAIN.

    I guess you can't say for sure that these threads are started by trolls, because the OPs might really think there's a value in beating dead horses, but I can see how at some point they might be closed by a compassionate mod. If the claim is that raising these issues will cause Hassy or Phase to change their business plans, perhaps it would be better to write them directly.
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    Re: So much for debate..

    I opened it again, but I am tempted to combine all of these threads into one.

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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    My bets are on Bob...

    Emotions tend to run high at these price points, that's quite understandable, but mediating should be left to objective individuals, who are not tainted or offended as a result of their personal beliefs...then it just becomes an autocracy.
    Yes it was me,
    Frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn, but how many times do we go over the same old same old...
    Also I ate what tasted like troll bait and felt woozy for awhile
    -bob
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    It seems disagreement with the moderators leads to a closed thread...again.

    Regardless of whether a topic has been discussed, most new members don't search the archives for reference, they read the new threads and comment appropriately. Even if they did, planned obsolescence would most likely be outdated anyway. The word forum means exchanging ideas and views on a particular issue, and in this case MFD photography. By locking threads, it seems to imply that there's more to this issue...

    By regulating comment conducted in a respectful manner diminishes the validity of GetDPI as a forum for objective opinion. This is not the first time a MFD thread has been closed if you disagree with the moderators viewpoint, and this mostly applies to this particular section. Some are more emotional about their MFD investment - and rightfully so, but closing a thread is not effective, and certainly not objective, and leaves plenty of room for debate...

    P.S.
    I would strongly encourage this forum to be open about criticism about MFD because it might guide MFD companies, (and not just advertisers) to effectively gauge and consider this to be more like a focus group that's an integral segment of this profession.
    A mod is there to keep things in order... not to silence people that through their experience disagree with the mods views... never the less, the behavior against my thread was both inappropriate and unethical... I had to reply on a members question by messaging him, while the requirement could be far more beneficial to more people if it was done in public... maybe some mods are worthless of their title... I wonder how beneficial this can be for the reputation of a forum...

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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Yes it was me,
    Frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn, but how many times do we go over the same old same old...
    Also I ate what tasted like troll bait and felt woozy for awhile
    -bob
    Yet you fail to answer the accusation... was it you Bob?

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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoros Fotometria View Post
    Yet you fail to answer the accusation... was it you Bob?
    read the first line of my post.
    -bob

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    Re: So much for debate..

    And for the record...
    We will close and or delete any thread that we think is getting out of hand, or rude, or inappropriate. We may combine threads of a similar subject.
    We may move threads to a more appropriate forum in our opinion.
    This particular thread was the second opened by the OP on a similar subject.

    -bob
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    Re: So much for debate..

    The subject is far from the same... or even relevant, or even close for that matter... the requirement on my thread was CLEARLY to discuss analysis difference for the SAME image area... and having in mind the absolute which is the analysis of a multishot 22mp back at 16x (=88mp) as well as the HUGE DR difference and the UNMATCHED color difference that it offers when compared to ultra expensive backs that will look like CARTOONS if used for the same task... Which in return has an impact on how pros work, what is the balance on their work (if they are using single-shot backs for work that only a MS back would be appropriate ...trying to achieve the same - NOT A CHANCE...) and if the ultra high res backs worth their cost, when compared to half resolution ones when in most cases (fashion, landscapes) DR and color are much more important than res... due to the fact that photography is all about light impact ...rather than counting the structure of a ...stone! OTOH, I believe you know what the subject was and you deliberately try to alter the meaning of it (by inventing a relevance) to explain the unexplainable... are you by any means "supported" financially by anyone Bob? ...If not, please open the subject back... you have no right to silence people from saying the truth, or to express their opinion, or to share their knowledge to advance photography... after all, you are not the one to judge what photography is, or what discussion is beneficial for it... right? ...right!!!

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoros Fotometria View Post
    The subject is far from the same... or even relevant, or even close for that matter... the requirement on my thread was CLEARLY to discuss analysis difference for the SAME image area... and having in mind the absolute which is the analysis of a multishot 22mp back at 16x (=88mp) as well as the HUGE DR difference and the UNMATCHED color difference that it offers when compared to ultra expensive backs that will look like CARTOONS if used for the same task... Which in return has an impact on how pros work, what is the balance on their work (if they are using single-shot backs for work that only a MS back would be appropriate ...trying to achieve the same - NOT A CHANCE...) and if the ultra high res backs worth their cost, when compared to half resolution ones when in most cases (fashion, landscapes) DR and color are much more important than res... due to the fact that photography is all about light impact ...rather than counting the structure of a ...stone! OTOH, I believe you know what the subject was and you deliberately try to alter the meaning of it (by inventing a relevance) to explain the unexplainable... are you by any means "supported" financially by anyone Bob? ...If not, please open the subject back... you have no right to silence people from saying the truth, or to express their opinion, or to share their knowledge to advance photography... after all, you are not the one to judge what photography is, or what discussion is beneficial for it... right? ...right!!!
    No I am supported by my own activities and not paid by any photographic supplier of any sort.
    And you, sir you are banned for a short break for the insult.
    thanks
    -bob

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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    It seems disagreement with the moderators leads to a closed thread...again.

    Regardless of whether a topic has been discussed, most new members don't search the archives for reference, they read the new threads and comment appropriately. Even if they did, planned obsolescence would most likely be outdated anyway. The word forum means exchanging ideas and views on a particular issue, and in this case MFD photography. By locking threads, it seems to imply that there's more to this issue...

    By regulating comment conducted in a respectful manner diminishes the validity of GetDPI as a forum for objective opinion. This is not the first time a MFD thread has been closed if you disagree with the moderators viewpoint, and this mostly applies to this particular section. Some are more emotional about their MFD investment - and rightfully so, but closing a thread is not effective, and certainly not objective, and leaves plenty of room for debate...

    P.S.
    I would strongly encourage this forum to be open about criticism about MFD because it might guide MFD companies, (and not just advertisers) to effectively gauge and consider this to be more like a focus group that's an integral segment of this profession.
    We are very open to criticism of MF digital. Look, it is all over the place.
    The thread closure had absolutely nothing to do with any opinions of mine on any technical or aesthetic subject.
    besides there was this post
    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/493276-post21.html
    -bob

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    Re: So much for debate..

    Damn. I should try that more often

    Theo's posting "style" is ringing bells though. It's also not exactly conducive to a reasoned discussion.
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Everyone is free to leave ...

    I'm not here to read things like: If you can get this, you don't need that. Next thing is to read about the wonderful camera in the x-phone ...;-)

    Would you support me if I'd posting things like: "who needs more than 500 HP" in any supercar forum?

    Secondly, I don't understand the relevance. If everybody is happy with what's in his bag, we should return as fast as possible into the studio or outback to make more great photos.

    Having said this, I want to say also that the way these threads are going - answering every opinion with a lenghty reply isn't very democratic also - one should respect different points of view if he demands to be taken seriously.

    Relax, Dude!

    Stan ROX

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    It's called bait. It's pretty obvious too. That's all I'm going to contribute to this thread but insulting people is not the GetDPI way either and that does include the admins and mods.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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  18. #18
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Bob,

    I believe that in Theodoros's comments, perhaps tone and intent are once again lost in typed words, and perhaps language barriers lead to misread connotations. His passion seems misinterpreted by many here, but his points are nonetheless valid as it relates to MFD. Yes, many times these threads come up, in some form or another but because of the nature of this profession and the ever changing technology this seems to be totally acceptable.

    Competition spurs innovation and as stephengilbert has pointed out again, the D800 has done that to MFD in a big way. New members who are criticized by others with their careful placement of catchy emoticons are not ones who opinions I value anyway.


    P.S.
    Agreed, that personal, insulting comments are to be avoided, and Stan Rox makes a great point, but I think strongly that connotations can be misconstrued or lost in translation as it relates to language differences because my MF camera provides me with big happy fun, that provides exciting things for me to visualize pleasurable experiences.
    Last edited by johnnygoesdigital; 25th February 2013 at 09:38.

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    Re: So much for debate..

    If someone posts a question like "who needs this or that" ... and someone answers with why they think they "need this or that" ... who on Earth is qualified to tell them they do not ... repeatedly, with the same answers over-and-over?

    The assumption has to be that the responders are not knowledgable, and have no idea what they need to accomplish their goals ... and the OP is.

    Besides, much of this is thing we do is based on want ... not need

    There is a lot to be said for the philosophy of "Exceed The Need" ... not just good enough, wanting to do more than good enough ... whether in developing ideas or executing them. Better lighting, better assistants, better models, better location, better files, better post work, better retouching, better anything we do.

    I have a friend that subscribes to this philosophy, and was scoffed at by his competitors ... he is building his second studio, and they are out of business.

    -Marc
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  20. #20
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Well.

    as I'm sitting in my #1 Cigar Lounge with a big "Zino Platinum Torro 'Anniversary - 10 Years" I wan't to mention that it's always a good idea to reflect the postings that are to be made.

    What you all maybe know is the rude and angry athmosphere in some forums around. This is one of the most differentiating and refreshing attributes of getdpi.com.

    For that reason, I have to say that - on my personal preference - like to see mods that are cancelling things before they get into something horrible.

    Enjoy!

    S.
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Bob,

    I believe that in Theodoros's comments, perhaps tone and intent are once again lost in typed words, and perhaps language barriers lead to misread connotations. His passion seems misinterpreted by many here, but his points are nonetheless valid as it relates to MFD. Yes, many times these threads come up, in some form or another but because of the nature of this profession and the ever changing technology this seems to be totally acceptable.

    Competition spurs innovation and as stephengilbert has pointed out again, the D800 has done that to MFD in a big way. New members who are criticized by others with their careful placement of catchy emoticons are not ones who opinions I value anyway.


    P.S.
    Agreed, that personal, insulting comments are to be avoided, and Stan Rox makes a great point, but I think strongly that connotations can be misconstrued or lost in translation as it relates to language differences.
    Hey, I posted a couple of answers and tried to express my opinion. Everyone is entitled to one (or two or three). I then decided that there was just no point and moved on.

    I came back and looked again because of a complaint then locked the thread which is pretty much normal under the circumstances. THEN the "Well then there is no room for debate" thread started.

    Listen folks: This should be very clear...
    We invite you all to our house for a discussion. Our rules are fairly liberal as to subject and content and have developed over the years based on specific instances where modification has proven to be necessary (the NSFW rule for example which a post of mine caused).

    But you have to understand that this is still OUR house. It is not a democracy.

    We want a civil and pleasant tone. Say what you want, but respect that there are a lot of opinions out there that may not agree with yours.

    I can prove that there is only a bit less than 9 stops of DR in Delta 100 processed normally as long as it is rated at about 80 because I can measure it.
    I cannot prove why anybody needs or wants anything no matter how strange it may seem to me.

    Moderating is not that easy since it is necessary often to use judgement and experience developed on threads of a similar pattern and then to act before it is too late and devolves into a pissing match.

    Those involved are sometimes angry at the mods, but we will continue to do it to preserve this place as an oasis in an unruly internet.

    thanks
    -bob
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan ROX View Post
    Well.

    as I'm sitting in my #1 Cigar Lounge with a big "Zino Platinum Torro 'Anniversary - 10 Years" I wan't to mention that it's always a good idea to reflect the postings that are to be made.

    What you all maybe know is the rude and angry athmosphere in some forums around. This is one of the most differentiating and refreshing attributes of getdpi.com.

    For that reason, I have to say that - on my personal preference - like to see mods that are cancelling things before they get into something horrible.

    Enjoy!

    S.
    Careful Stan, keep talking like that and we may put you to work as a mod -- especially the cigar part and most especially if you are enjoying a single malt with it!

    And a reminder to everybody else -- GetDPI is NOT a democracy! It is an AUTOCRACY that we run for your benefit and enjoyment. Clearly most of you get that, but a few of you need to be reminded from time to time -- and that's what Bob uses timeouts for.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Hell with that save me a seat I'm jumping on a plane over to Basel.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Careful Stan, keep talking like that and we may put you to work as a mod -- especially the cigar part and most especially if you are enjoying a single malt with it!

    And a reminder to everybody else -- GetDPI is NOT a democracy! It is an AUTOCRACY that we run for your benefit and enjoyment. Clearly most of you get that, but a few of you need to be reminded from time to time -- and that's what Bob uses timeouts for.
    I have to comment here as what many do not know is that every new member gets a note from me when they sign up. In many cases I get a return PM even though everyone knows my message to them is a canned welcome to GetDPI I still get many many responses back. It usually goes like this to summarize. Guy thanks for the welcome I have been lurking here for awhile and decided to sign up as I really like the civility that GetDPI has and its much different than many other forums where things run wild.

    Folks this is a very common PM that I get and it is what most members are looking for. When we started this forum we where sick of the constant crap out there going on and we decided early on this is what we wanted was a no insult rule and a forum that was actually moderated. As they say it is what it is but it is also what most want. GetDPI will always hold this in place. Now to be really honest these admins and mods including myself have been on forums for years and know every type of posting and buy and sell trick on the planet. Get a clue we are not stupid we know when someone is throwing chum out the side of the boat.

    Have a lovely day
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post

    And a reminder to everybody else -- GetDPI is NOT a democracy! It is an AUTOCRACY
    Oooh Jack, I LOVE it when you're strict with us!
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Thanks Guy. The tenor of the discussion here usually represents the courtesy and politeness of the Mods, and that says a lot of good about them. After having it up to my chin over at LL, I was looking for the type of civil conversation found here. And I have to admit that one of the posters here gets really close to the line, so I do not mind deletions, closing of threads, and bans. I fully realize this forum is not a democracy, and I want you to intervene when someone gets out of line. However, I can see why some may see it as arbitrary to close a thread from time to time. Even I found it a little curious that a thread was closed when the tone of the conversation seemed to support a particular brand that is not often favored on this forum. But I did not complain on the forum, because it is yours to run the way you see fit. Maybe it is just because, now that I am old, I take a lot of things with a grain of salt. Thanks to the members of this forum and the Mods for keeping it civil, friendly, and courteous.

    Greg
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    Senior Member Ed Hurst's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    One of the reasons I love this forum so much is the wonderful atmosphere here - the focus on our art, generously helping each other, sharing ideas - rather than constantly having repeated and unnecessarily barbed, rancourous arguments. Perhaps some of the recent discussions may have seemed that way because of language barriers and the like, but it really does feel to me that in the last week or two, there has been a most unwelcome tendency to start arguments - and conduct them - in a spirit that just feels deliberately combative and negative merely for its own sake. That saddens me and seems to take something away from the purpose of this place.

    I am never a fan of censorship. But I must say I welcomed the closing of those threads, which leaves me feeling conflicted. In the end, this place is what it is because of how people choose to behave here. It is sad indeed if that gets compromised by combative and unhelpful contributions to debate.
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    Senior Member Ed Hurst's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    This forum is, in my view, unparalleled on the internet. Long may it remain so...
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed HUrst View Post
    One of the reasons I love this forum so much is the wonderful atmosphere here - the focus on our art, generously helping each other, sharing ideas - rather than constantly having repeated and unnecessarily barbed, rancourous arguments. Perhaps some of the recent discussions may have seemed that way because of language barriers and the like, but it really does feel to me that in the last week or two, there has been a most unwelcome tendency to start arguments - and conduct them - in a spirit that just feels deliberately combative and negative merely for its own sake. That saddens me and seems to take something away from the purpose of this place.

    I am never a fan of censorship. But I must say I welcomed the closing of those threads, which leaves me feeling conflicted. In the end, this place is what it is because of how people choose to behave here. It is sad indeed if that gets compromised by combative and unhelpful contributions to debate.
    Please feel free to report posts for review by the mods.
    We are on the forum a lot but we don't necessarily see every post.
    -bob

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed HUrst View Post
    One of the reasons I love this forum so much is the wonderful atmosphere here - the focus on our art, generously helping each other, sharing ideas - rather than constantly having repeated and unnecessarily barbed, rancourous arguments. Perhaps some of the recent discussions may have seemed that way because of language barriers and the like, but it really does feel to me that in the last week or two, there has been a most unwelcome tendency to start arguments - and conduct them - in a spirit that just feels deliberately combative and negative merely for its own sake. That saddens me and seems to take something away from the purpose of this place.

    I am never a fan of censorship. But I must say I welcomed the closing of those threads, which leaves me feeling conflicted. In the end, this place is what it is because of how people choose to behave here. It is sad indeed if that gets compromised by combative and unhelpful contributions to debate.
    Culture and locations from all over the world do create some challenges for all of us. My feeling its best to step back reread something think about it several times more than even just walk away from it. Sometimes not but hey I totally get it if not everyone gets the Jersey kid in me as well. I'm sure I will get what is chum question. It's bait just FYI.

    Btw love Sydney what a amazing city.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    This is the first I've checked in on the threads in the MF category in nearly a month. Now I might check in once a month when I used to check in nearly every day.

    Why? After the D800 came out, it seemed like too many threads became about the new 'conquering hero' and why MFD is on its way to extinction. I don't mind the discussions. Some have been informative and it now seems to have settled down a bit. It's just that I'm well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of each system and don't need to hear the same 'the sky is falling' arguments over and over and over by the same individuals.

  32. #32
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Oooh Jack, I LOVE it when you're strict with us!


    Tim, I had a VERY ugly picture snap into my mind when I first read that -- fortunately I was able to force it out as quickly as it entered!

    Jack
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed HUrst View Post
    This forum is, in my view, unparalleled on the internet. Long may it remain so...
    Thank you sir! And I believe that is a credit first and foremost to the generally excellent membership participation we have here! A smaller portion of credit to admins actually enforcing the rather simple rules about good behavior
    Jack
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post

    SNIP

    So much for debate...
    Johnny,

    Let's be very clear -- the problem is not with debate per se, but rather HOW some of you choose to enter into those debates that admin takes exception to.

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    And here's some more behind the scenes input I received and am electing to share (anonymously) for your fun and enjoyment Oh, and this friend happens to be a criminal defense attorney:

    >>Perhaps "Don't be an asshole" might be a rule to add. You'd think that would be understood, but some people can't manage.

    I have to remember the adage "Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity." Defense lawyer spin: maybe they don't know how they come across. I doubt it in most cases, but it's possible.<<
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Hello Bob, Guy and Jack.

    I know that a open democratic forum like this one is no easy to maintain what is trash and what is pure open trading information and Knowledge...

    But please....please keep the Topics "DMF vs 35mm" closet for good !

    I recomend good "sticky Thread" with the title..."Apples vs Oranges" which one have the best juice?....

    NO ONE CAN PLEASE EXPLAIN FOR GOOD THAT ARE DIFERENT TOOLS...A knife its better than a haxe??? a ferrari its better than truck?...A WIFE (canon gear) ITS BETTER THAN A LOVER???? (hassy H3D 39)....

    This forum and the LuLa are my bibles in the DMF, but its so so dificult to see so many threats about the same again and again...

    Pedro
    Last edited by pedro39photo; 25th February 2013 at 15:49.
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Let's be very clear -- the problem is not with debate per se, but rather HOW some of you choose to enter into those debates that admin takes exception to.

    Cheers,
    Amen. I'm mostly a lurker here, but since a few weeks there's a different atmosphere being created that I think this forum can do without. There are new members who are deliberately trying to stir the pot. I recognize names from over at Lula where the same thing happened.

    Now I'm not a native english speaker myself but it's really not that difficult te come across as polite and civil. I've learned a lot since I first came here and there are a lot of members who generously share their knowledge, for which I'm grateful.

    I hope the forum stays the way it's been. On topic, which is Medium Format, and friendly and polite.

    Thanks!
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Your English is far better than mine. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member Ed Hurst's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    ...since a few weeks there's a different atmosphere being created that I think this forum can do without. There are new members who are deliberately trying to stir the pot.

    I totally agree. That is exactly how it has felt - and it risks spoiling things utterly.

    Maybe it would help to have a policy that the forum is open to discussion of how to improve MF cameras/backs/systems, but that there is an assumption that everyone here is interested in MF - therefore discussion of its supposed disappearance is not what the group is for...
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    Senior Member Ed Hurst's Avatar
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Btw love Sydney what a amazing city.

    It certainly is! Since I moved here, every moment of the day and every dream at night is about how to capture it photographically, which makes focusing on the other little things in life seem rather challenging

  41. #41
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    And here's some more behind the scenes input I received and am electing to share (anonymously) for your fun and enjoyment Oh, and this friend happens to be a criminal defense attorney:

    >>Perhaps "Don't be an asshole" might be a rule to add. You'd think that would be understood, but some people can't manage.

    I have to remember the adage "Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity." Defense lawyer spin: maybe they don't know how they come across. I doubt it in most cases, but it's possible.<<
    You know I think you could probably replace all of the guidance with those two recommendations for good forum behaviour. Just add the existing one for B&S about re-emphasizing that no price on your listing gets it yanked.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: So much for debate..

    Guy/Jack/Bob,

    Please keep this place sane. As a Canuck, I think it is all about balance, and sometimes policing bs is necessary. It is a shame what has happened to the other MFDB forum! Please keep up whatever you need to keep this place useful to the majority of us.

    I will shamelessly admit that I have far better equipment than my abilities, but when I look at any of your work or Dan, Siebel, Graham etc., I am simply inspired. I have an IQ and 3 d800's. They all do what they do for what I am am doing when I'm doing it. I can go on the Leica forum and troll on about why my iphone is better, but have much better things to do

    I have shots of my kids with the D800e/200F2 that would not be possible with the IQ/Arca. I have shots with the IQ/Rodies that would be impossible with the Nikon.

    Again, horses for courses. My Sienna is great for the grocery store, but the 911TTS is definitely better the odd time I get a chance to whip around a corner and make a perfectly synchronized 2/3 change.

    You guys own this forum, and should do what is best for your business and your customer base, the rest is just opinion. In the meantime, I will enjoy and exploit the vast majority of valuable and experienced knowledge here.

    Cheers!
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    Re: So much for debate..

    The principle of free, open and uncensored debate is essential to a democratic internet forum. Otherwise it runs the risk of descending into merely a reflection of the views of the people moderating. However I am also so bored of the D800 is a better tool than that MFD tool comments. My local pro rental house has 5 times as many MFD's for rent than 35mm full frames, that says it all.

    So in the interests of open debate on this forum and to help people avoid the "this gear is better than that gear" merry go round, why not simply create a section called "This gear, or that gear" (or with a Freudian slant - "Mines bigger than yours"). If a debate is created in the MFD section and descends into gear farce it can be moved across by the moderators. So open debate can continue, but the MFD section is kept on topic.

    Just a thought.

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    Re: So much for debate..

    I think this thread will be closed as well
    Tareq

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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    I think this thread will be closed as well
    So far it seems to be going reasonably well.
    -bob

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    Re: So much for debate..

    No problem with a bit of policing. A good beat cop can keep the neighborhood a nice place.

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    Re: So much for debate..

    I read the thread briefly closed in question and can't help myself thinking why there are constantly people trying to make a point for 35 mm equipment in a medium format forum thread!
    I can't find folks doing just the opposite in canon or Nikon forums.
    Quite frankly I dont understand the motivation of preaching the 35 mm superiority gospel on the MF forum, it's getting really boring to hear it over and over again.

    Guys , get a life , start shooting with whatever works for you & let's just agree as somebody suggested earlier that MF is dead instead of
    We can all be happier if we respect a simple fact that different equipment serves different needs , aspirations or just enjoyment.

    Just my 2 cents on the subject
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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Guy/Jack/Bob,

    Please keep this place sane. As a Canuck, I think it is all about balance, and sometimes policing bs is necessary. It is a shame what has happened to the other MFDB forum! Please keep up whatever you need to keep this place useful to the majority of us.

    I will shamelessly admit that I have far better equipment than my abilities, but when I look at any of your work or Dan, Siebel, Graham etc., I am simply inspired. I have an IQ and 3 d800's. They all do what they do for what I am am doing when I'm doing it. I can go on the Leica forum and troll on about why my iphone is better, but have much better things to do

    I have shots of my kids with the D800e/200F2 that would not be possible with the IQ/Arca. I have shots with the IQ/Rodies that would be impossible with the Nikon.

    Again, horses for courses. My Sienna is great for the grocery store, but the 911TTS is definitely better the odd time I get a chance to whip around a corner and make a perfectly synchronized 2/3 change.

    You guys own this forum, and should do what is best for your business and your customer base, the rest is just opinion. In the meantime, I will enjoy and exploit the vast majority of valuable and experienced knowledge here.

    Cheers!
    Wow Jag, I just thought I was sharing knowledge and learning in the process, which is what this forum, unlike any other, is about, right? May it remain so.
    I concur with the general thrust of this thread, namely that the price of freedom (of speech!!!) is eternal vigilance.
    I too have noted the appearance of a couple of agent provocateurs here lately. You know who you are and quite frankly, I'd be grateful if you departed to whence you came if you cannot fit in with the spirit of this place. I'm all for spirited debate and I'm sure many here have noted that I am nothing if not direct in my comments. Still, there are lines of decent conduct that should not be crossed, and I would like to take the opportunity to express 100% support for the owners and moderators here for their stand.
    My interest is in participating in the community of photographers, pro, amateur, novice, expert (is there such a thing?), and advancing our collective pool of knowledge. If I wanted to brawl with ignorant, opinionated tw_ts, there are many other furums I could frequent.
    This forum rocks, and I applaud the efforts to keep it so.
    Siebel
    "In the end, it's all about the pictures"
    www.bryansiebel.com
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  49. #49
    Super Duper
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    Re: So much for debate..

    I have decided this is the best response to these threads:


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    Re: So much for debate..

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    Wow Jag, I just thought I was sharing knowledge and learning in the process, which is what this forum, unlike any other, is about, right? May it remain so.
    If I wanted to brawl with ignorant, opinionated tw_ts, there are many other furums I could frequent.
    This forum rocks, and I applaud the efforts to keep it so.
    Alternatively, you could become a lawyer and have a multitude of opportunities every day for meaningless arguments. Then, you would not feel the need to argue endlessly about the D800 v. MFD.

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