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Thread: No love for the IQ280 ?

  1. #51
    Super Duper
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Don, I thought you were all set to upgrade to the 80 Mpix back as you were switching lenses etc. I honestly thought the IQ2 would have been the incentive but you've decided to stay put......

    The more I read and talk to people, for some reason it seem the new backs have caused a shift in peoples aspirations. Once it was 80 Mpix or why bother, but now we're all happy shooting 60 again.
    Okay - thinking long term...

    What's my next back? Well if all things were the same as they are now I'd shoot for a 80 megapixel (which is one of the reasons I just switched lenses). I know this sounds fickled. I'm in no hurry what so ever to switch/upgrade backs. I was in need of a new focal length as no matter how much I tried I just didn't love the 35mm as much as I thought I should and used my 72 and 120 more. Hell, to be honest I use the 72 a heck of a lot more than the 120 due to the shot barrel design.

    Bottom line (if I were to be totally honest with myself) is that I am really enjoying the IQ160 so much that I simply don't want to change.

    I guess my short answer to the "No love for the IQ280" is....

    While it looks good - it currently does not make sense to spend the money.

    Don

    One more thought: the main reason for me to switch to either the IQ180 or 280 is the ability to shoot at ISO 35.
    Last edited by Don Libby; 14th March 2013 at 15:37. Reason: added thought
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  2. #52
    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by yatlee View Post
    Is there even a downgrade option to IQ260 available for IQ180 user?
    There is no official Phase One program.
    We are doing it on a case by case basis for our clients.
    There are some variables involved such as age of back traded, length of warranty remaining, etc. which do not make it so cut and dry.

    It is best to make contact off forum to discuss.

    Best Regards,

    Lance (email me)
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  3. #53
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    BTW why is there no P1 program to what they call downgrade from higher res back to lower? In this particular update there is clearly an added benefit for some who need long exposures to switch from a 180 to a 260.
    It seems odd to be left out of that option as a premium customer.
    I understandit has always been that way but clearly this time around the realities have changed. The 260 offeres something truly unique and there are folks that came to the conclusion that 80 MP puts too much strain on their existing lens pool.
    I find that baffling to say the least.

    Grischa

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    There is no official Phase One program.
    We are doing it on a case by case basis for our clients.
    There are some variables involved such as age of back traded, length of warranty remaining, etc. which do not make it so cut and dry.

    Best Regards,

    Lance (email me)

  4. #54
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rupho View Post
    BTW why is there no P1 program to what they call downgrade from higher res back to lower? In this particular update there is clearly an added benefit for some who need long exposures to switch from a 180 to a 260.
    It seems odd to be left out of that option as a premium customer.
    I understandit has always been that way but clearly this time around the realities have changed. The 260 offeres something truly unique and there are folks that came to the conclusion that 80 MP puts too much strain on their existing lens pool.
    I find that baffling to say the least.

    Grischa
    There may not be an official Phase One cross-platform/up/downgrade program, but certainly there are dealers willing to accommodate clients---at least here in the US.

    ken

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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    There may not be an official Phase One cross-platform/up/downgrade program, but certainly there are dealers willing to accommodate clients---at least here in the US.

    ken
    I now feel like an abandoned child as my dealer here said Phase one is not supporting them for cross platform/downgrade and there is not much they can do.

  6. #56
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by yatlee View Post
    I now feel like an abandoned child as my dealer here said Phase one is not supporting them for cross platform/downgrade and there is not much they can do.
    How one official dealer can offer up/cross/down grade package while another official dealer on a different continent won't/can't is baffling.

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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    In germany we don't even have dealers.
    If you want to buy phase one stuff, you have to deal with phase one germany...

    Just because dealers in one country can offer such up/downgrades doesn't mean that a dealer in another country also can. Germans don't have a free phase one market anymore, in other countrys there are no up/downgrades available... allowed. Just guessing here!

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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Phase One is not alone in adopting this upgrade policy, favoring upgraders who skip every other generation. Apple does it with the iPhone, with a first-generation product and a more refined second generation (4, 4s, 5, guess what...), Intel does it with their processors (Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, etc.).... They call that a TICK-TOCK. I hear the grumbling from early adopters who want to have the latest every year, but this is quite common in our fast-evolving technological landscape. The problem is with the accelerated devaluation of our existing backs. Such is the free market place. In Germany, you may actually be fortunate to have a tighter market controlled by Phase One itself. This may artifically hold up values for used backs better.

    - Christopher

  9. #59
    Member Chris Barrett's Avatar
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Heh, I always skip a generation with my iPhones and iPads. Hadn't really considered that's what I'm doing with digi-backs as well.

    Of course if you try to skip generations on Mac Pro towers you're stuck with the same machine for 3-5 years.

    :P

  10. #60
    Senior Member Dave Gallagher's Avatar
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    How one official dealer can offer up/cross/down grade package while another official dealer on a different continent won't/can't is baffling.
    This is a simple business decision. Its all about margin and cash flow. Many businesses in this day and age can not afford an inventory base. And many who can afford it, choose not to. In business, you need to know your product and margin succinctly. You need to understand how long that product sits on your shelf and diminishes in value while when it is not a part of a revenue stream. This, of course, is for any tech business not just ours.

    When I take a DB in on trade, I can either send it back to the manufacturer and take their smaller offer on this trade in. Or I can choose to take a chance on putting in into my inventory and reselling it myself at a higher price. These decisions are based on my present cash flow, how many of the units I already own, or the potential resale value of that product.

    I won't speak for other dealers and how the conduct their business. There are very few dealers who are in the digital back market for a reason. Trust me, it is not the easiest market to succeed in.

    As for pricing, Phase One US made a big mistake in their pricing on this product. It was as frustrating for the dealers as it was for our customers. Some customers were lucky and took advantage of these mistakes in the first week of the offer. We have never seen pricing change in the first 7 days of a release and we hope that we don't again. I am all for transparency and integrity in this marketplace. Pricing should be available and open. We will work hard to keep this as open as possible in the future.

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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Unless there is some info out there that I am not aware of I would not hold my breath any time soon for a MF CMOS sensor. It would be hard to justify the cost of development of a large CMOS sensor relative to the user base. See Teledyne Dalsa white papers at:

    CCD vs. CMOS - Teledyne DALSA Inc

    Also see CCD and CMOS chart at url below and you will see all Dalsa high pixel density sensors are CCD

    Sensors - Teledyne DALSA

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gallagher View Post

    As for pricing, Phase One US made a big mistake in their pricing on this product. It was as frustrating for the dealers as it was for our customers. Some customers were lucky and took advantage of these mistakes in the first week of the offer. We have never seen pricing change in the first 7 days of a release and we hope that we don't again. I am all for transparency and integrity in this marketplace. Pricing should be available and open. We will work hard to keep this as open as possible in the future.

    Dave Gallagher (e-mail Me)
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    Now I want to know what I missed because $14k crossgrade from an IQ160 isn't going to cut it for quite a while for me. However, a more realistic upgrade price from another back might prise open the piggy bank if it were better 'value'.

    My $0.02.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Now I want to know what I missed because $14k crossgrade from an IQ160 isn't going to cut it for quite a while for me. However, a more realistic upgrade price from another back might prise open the piggy bank if it were better 'value'.

    My $0.02.
    Agree would someone PLEASE whisper what that is in my ear.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  14. #64
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    "My $0.02?"

    Maybe in the MF section it should be "My $0.20."
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Still out by a factor of 10 me thinks ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  16. #66
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    "My $0.02?"

    Maybe in the MF section it should be "My $0.20."
    Actually in some MF Digital circles, it becomes a short stack of $20.00, and sometimes results in significant others dancing on tables....


  17. #67
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Ken, I was hoping to keep the dancing quiet because refunding $20's to a crowd sucks!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  18. #68
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    The rule is, once it gets tucked into the thong, there's no refunds...

    There's gotta be a better way to upgrade to the IQ2....

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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    [QUOTE=
    As for pricing, Phase One US made a big mistake in their pricing on this product. It was as frustrating for the dealers as it was for our customers. Some customers were lucky and took advantage of these mistakes in the first week of the offer. We have never seen pricing change in the first 7 days of a release and we hope that we don't again. I am all for transparency and integrity in this marketplace. Pricing should be available and open. We will work hard to keep this as open as possible in the future.
    [/QUOTE]

    Dave, so is there new pricing on the upgrades different from what was posted earlier in this thread? If so, is it official and public?

    Cheers..

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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by shridere View Post
    Unless there is some info out there that I am not aware of I would not hold my breath any time soon for a MF CMOS sensor. It would be hard to justify the cost of development of a large CMOS sensor relative to the user base.
    Did you miss the press release about Hasselblad and Sony collaboration? Everyone got so hung up on the horrible Lunar camera, that they missed the bigger potential of that relationship - a CMOS MF sensor for Hasselblad from Sony. Duh. And Sony is near enough the class leader in CMOS, it makes the D800/E sensor, the RX1 sensor, the M(240) sensor, etc. all cutting edge. (Canon seem to have given up on still photography)

    When that happens -when, not if- and we have clean 1600/3200asa files from MF, I'll be dropping Phase One CCD backs immediately. If I was Phase, I would have been scrambling as soon as I heard the Sony tie in with their main competitor, and dropped all other development, except moving to CMOS or Foveon type sensors.

    Meanwhile this marketing of an 'IQ280' is really best viewed as an IQ180+. It such a small change it won't be worth it for 95% of existing owners.

  21. #71
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    Re: No love for the IQ280 ?

    You guys are crazy! I still love my p65+.
    You guys should look at the fat pixel thread and stop worrying so much about the back, when looking at my p25+ files, I see that lenses, lighting, knowhow, technical camera instead of DF, do WAY more than a newer back could ever do. 1600/3200 iso? What? Why do you need this on medium format? High iso and medium format are just opposites. We choose medium format for the clean images, no matter how high the iso can go, it will never be the same as an image at 50 or say 35 iso.

    Been seeing lots of people with crazy digital backs, OK lenses, and poor lighting equipment. I just don't get it personally.

    I guess I'm lost in this. I will just wait for the IQ380 (or maybe IQ400 = 100 megapixels obviously- or maybe it will be the IQ4) get more familiar with my Alpa and learn better lighting in the meantime

    You can't always have the best when it comes to technology - there will always be something newer within a year or so. Glass on the other hand...

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