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Thread: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

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    Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    Just received my 210mm Schneider that I'm very much looking forward to getting out and using.

    Unfortunately, there's been a bit of a sandstorm here today, so not much point in going outside. I decided therefore to do a bit of testing indoors.

    Thought this might be of interest...

    ISO100, f/11, 1/8th (100% crops):





    ALPA FPS used for both shots. In the first, the shutter on the FPS was kept open, and I used the shutter in the lens. In the second, the shutter in the lens was kept open, and I used the FPS's shutter.

    Regards,

    Gerald.

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    Re: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    Thanks for sharing!

    I would suspect 1/8th would be the worst offender here. Did you try any at 1/15 or 1/4th?
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    Makes me even more interested in trying an FPS! Thanks for sharing. There is a great difference in sharpness between the two.
    I am assuming these photos are not handheld?

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    Re: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    Doug - I didn't try either of those. I'll maybe look to do some more testing in the coming days.

    shortpballer - Nope, not handheld. I wouldn't even try!

    (I may not be getting the best out of the leaf shutter since I wasn't using a cable release.)

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    Re: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    Very interesting and is asking for some serious testing. Thanks for sharing.

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    Re: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    Cable release does seem to make a difference, due to the fact that you are otherwise pushing on the lens itself with the brass shutter release attached to the lens. Thus moving the entire camera setup slightly from push to release.


    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Doug - I didn't try either of those. I'll maybe look to do some more testing in the coming days.

    shortpballer - Nope, not handheld. I wouldn't even try!

    (I may not be getting the best out of the leaf shutter since I wasn't using a cable release.)

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    Re: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    Quote Originally Posted by shortpballer View Post
    Cable release does seem to make a difference, due to the fact that you are otherwise pushing on the lens itself with the brass shutter release attached to the lens. Thus moving the entire camera setup slightly from push to release.
    Yup - this would appear to be the case.

    I haven't re-tested myself, but the chaps at ALPA got in contact to say they'd done the same test at 1/4, 1/8 and 1/15 and achieved identical results whether using the leaf shutter (with cable release) or focal plane shutter. Basically, tack sharp as long as you have the right technique!

    The impressive thing to me out of this though is just how little (any??) vibration you get when using the FPS's shutter. Obviously there are significant benefits to be able to use its shutter for the kind of work I'm planning for the 210mm (basically, big panos).

    I shot a 45 imgage (3 rows, 15 columns) pano late yesterday afternoon with this set-up being controlled by the Seitz VR Drive 2. The resulting 1.75 gigapixel pano is stunning.

    Damn I love this gear

    Regards,

    Gerald.
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    Re: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    I shot a 45 imgage (3 rows, 15 columns) pano

    Gerald.
    Tip of the day: Instead of bazillion shots with a telephoto lens, use a wideangle lens - shoot once and move on......

    Kidding aside. I wonder if it will be possible in the future to buy Schneider & Rodenstock tech cam lenses WITHOUT the copal shutter? And maybe save money at purchase and future possible headaches with Copal service/repairs?
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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    Re: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    Gerald,

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    In the first, the shutter on the FPS was kept open, and I used the shutter in the lens. In the second, the shutter in the lens was kept open, and I used the FPS's shutter.
    Aren't the results the opposite to what you would have expected? My understanding is that a leaf shutter will return less camera shake than a focal plane shutter, not more, at least in part because the former stops down and opens up symmetrically about the lens axis, compared to the latter which travels unsymmetrically from side to side.

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    Re: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    Quote Originally Posted by AreBee View Post
    Gerald,



    Aren't the results the opposite to what you would have expected? My understanding is that a leaf shutter will return less camera shake than a focal plane shutter, not more, at least in part because the former stops down and opens up symmetrically about the lens axis, compared to the latter which travels unsymmetrically from side to side.
    Well, that was I believe the generally accepted norm. Until the FPS came onto the scene.

    Apparently the reason for the leaf shutter shot that I posted not being particularly sharp was because I used the shutter trigger on the lens, rather than using a cable, which is essential at these slow speeds.

    ALPA's own test resulted identical sharpness, regardless of which shutter was used.

    Whatever ALPA have done to damp vibrations from the shutter in the FPS, it's clearly worked.

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    Re: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Doug - I didn't try either of those. I'll maybe look to do some more testing in the coming days.

    shortpballer - Nope, not handheld. I wouldn't even try!

    (I may not be getting the best out of the leaf shutter since I wasn't using a cable release.)
    I wouldn't even think of using my Digitar lenses without a cable release!! Even the cable release itself can make a difference..... I have resorted to very flexible and longer cables.

    Victor

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    That is the same result I found on the HCam. We did a great effort to dampen the Mamiya 645 shutter with mounting it into a cut out rubber block first and then this is mounted to the about 6 to 8mm thick Aluminium profile that also has steps and stability walls cnc´d out of a full block of Aluminium.

    more than that, we can do very long and very short times with such a system without having to touch the camera, a radio remote control can be used and you can even sync F1/F2 for flash effects on timings longer than 1/2 sec.

    I would even go that far to say that some of the very good sharpness of many lenses used on the Hcam (also FPS) is due to the fact that there is a total lack of vibration coming from the camera at release.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Yup - this would appear to be the case.

    I haven't re-tested myself, but the chaps at ALPA got in contact to say they'd done the same test at 1/4, 1/8 and 1/15 and achieved identical results whether using the leaf shutter (with cable release) or focal plane shutter. Basically, tack sharp as long as you have the right technique!

    The impressive thing to me out of this though is just how little (any??) vibration you get when using the FPS's shutter. Obviously there are significant benefits to be able to use its shutter for the kind of work I'm planning for the 210mm (basically, big panos).

    I shot a 45 imgage (3 rows, 15 columns) pano late yesterday afternoon with this set-up being controlled by the Seitz VR Drive 2. The resulting 1.75 gigapixel pano is stunning.

    Damn I love this gear

    Regards,

    Gerald.
    Thanks a lot for sharing. What Alpa had done for the FPS shutter is awesome. Might seek a chance to try on it.

    Philip

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