RVB
Member
Perhaps this has been seen by most of you guy's But I thought it would be interesting to post for those who haven't seen it..
Henrick Interview on Vimeo
Henrick Interview on Vimeo
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Phase One CEO interview..
- Thread starter RVB
- Start date
glenerrolrd
Workshop Member
RVB
Member
Michael Reichmann mention's the new M in positive light,I wouldn't bet against the S getting a cmosis sensor in the not too distant future ...Best quote was something about CMOS is inevitable and all manufacturers (Phase,Leica,HB and Pentax) will have it in their next generation equipment . Phase recognizes that the debate will last and plans on having both CCD and CMOS backs . I am quoting from memory...
D
Deleted member 7792
Guest
Finally watched that interview last night. I wasn't impressed. The Phase One CEO wasn't able to clearly articulate a compelling rationale for medium format photography, other than giving photographers a way of differentiating themselves from the "Toyotas". I think most medium format photographers on this forum and on LuLa could offer more convincing arguments to the question, "Is medium format dead?" In fact, I think Reichmann was more convincing than the CEO.
There wasn't much new information in there, and the most I could discern was that 2013 and 2014 would bring new products, including possibly a new camera to replace the one they "inherited" (his word, not mine). This from a guy who promised me USB 3.0 in June 2011 when I bought my IQ180.
My prediction is that we've seen their major announcement for 2013 - the IQ260 and IQ280 - and no new camera will be announced until 2014, perhaps at Photokina. Possibly more S/K lenses in 2013.
I've moved on to the Leica S, so I'll watch from the sidelines.
Joe
There wasn't much new information in there, and the most I could discern was that 2013 and 2014 would bring new products, including possibly a new camera to replace the one they "inherited" (his word, not mine). This from a guy who promised me USB 3.0 in June 2011 when I bought my IQ180.
My prediction is that we've seen their major announcement for 2013 - the IQ260 and IQ280 - and no new camera will be announced until 2014, perhaps at Photokina. Possibly more S/K lenses in 2013.
I've moved on to the Leica S, so I'll watch from the sidelines.
Joe
BlinkingEye
New member
That is a very good guess, considering the last iteration of the "M."
Wayne Fox
Workshop Member
I think the argument he puts forward about MF being dead was there. Yes he gushed the normal stuff, but I read more into it's current situation when he mentions of things like their best year ever, as well as the ability to continue to design new sensors, cameras, and lenses. A company sucking wind would have a hard time designing anything new.
I do agree, he overstated the "differentiate yourself" argument, but as with anything it can be and is used effectively by many photographers. (regardless of how valid or invalid the concept is).
I do agree, he overstated the "differentiate yourself" argument, but as with anything it can be and is used effectively by many photographers. (regardless of how valid or invalid the concept is).
RVB
Member
You can see here that CMOSIS have already made a 70mp 35mm sensor,a 3.1 micron pixel sensor in the S would be interesting..
CHR70M - CMOSIS
RVB
Member
Good point's,Medium format is far from dead.. the D800 might have moved 35mm forward but it's still not the same and what happen's when medium format takes another tech jump as it will eventually..
D
Deleted member 7792
Guest
"Best year ever" was a bit vague for my taste. With an R&D staff of 70, the Phase One innovation engine is quite small relative to other camera manufacturers. I'm assuming that those 70 don't include Mamiya and Schneider-Kreuznach.
I just thought his articulation of the advantages of medium format was weak, given that he is the CEO of one of the "big three" MF contenders. If his goal is to move photographers from 35mm to medium format, his value proposition needs to be more powerfully presented.
A 50-70mp S with a CMOS (not necessarily CMOSIS) sensor is less than two years away, IMHO.
I agree, and the arguments supporting medium format have been argued ad nauseam on this forum and others. :deadhorse:
The advances in technology will occur across the broad spectrum of product offerings. Micro 4/3rds, 35mm full-frame and medium format will make technology "jumps" as sensor and in-camera processing technologies evolve. The D800 just rattled some cages. And it's not the end of the road for Nikon either, my friend. We live in exciting times.
Joe
Wayne Fox
Workshop Member
To me considering the all of the buzz about the d800 killing MF and yet in that same year Phase sees growth and has their best year is the point. I certainly don't expect a company to start throwing out specific data. I yes, I guess he could be blowing smoke, but he's certainly enthusiastic. As far as R&D, i'm guessing that as a percentage of revenue, Phase spends more. Considering the size of the company, they're doing pretty well with new stuff.
True, but I don't think this presentation was about converting shooters from 35mm to MF, it was more to answer the specific question that despite all the talk about MF being dead it isn't. LuLa has been inundated with this type of stuff and every thread seems to eventually get infected by it. We've seen plenty of it here on getDPI. I think the video was a direct result of all those threads.
Other than perhaps Steve Jobs, I can't think of man CEO's who articulate and handle "sales" presentations well. (I'm sure there are some) They are usually afraid of putting their foot in their mouth, so they tend to spout oft repeated "safe" concepts. He seems to suffering from that somewhat.
Odd interview IMO. Not quite sure what to make of it.
The technological aspect seemed mostly predictive and anyone involved in MFD knows most of that is extremely unreliable regardless of brand, especially in terms of timings. I guess it was there to say "We hear you, we are fine, and moving forward".
Not sure that such strong use of predictive innovation at such a heightened degree of change (CMOS/Live View) is the wisest path to support the MFD category ... it promises a ferocious rate of both obsolesces and new expenditures at what is ubiquitously considered stratospheric pricing structures.
The notion of constant upgrading at these price points argues against bringing in new converts to what will soon be obsolete equipment ... while this is common to all categories, all the others are far more sustainable. Those with existing MFD gear would either have to have a very healthy business success to sustain the rate of change, or own an oil field.
IMO, what is needed is strong support for those already in the category from all the brands, and especially such a strong player as Phase One/Leaf. As someone already mentioned, there are stronger arguments here on Get DPI than was presented in the video. Quantifiable arguments straight from the horse's mouth would further endorse already positive beliefs. These MFD companies need to mercilessly hammer this home, consistently and relentlessly.
:lecture: I think MFD has made a fundamental mistake in catering to consumer cries for higher ISO, faster rate of shooting, multiple AF points or any other functional aspect they cannot ever hope to win against 35mm offerings. IMO, it has wasted precious R&D resources, caused incremental change that is expensive to maintain on the users part, and done little to forward the real advantages of MFD :lecture:
I winced when the CEO used the word "slow" ... which plays right into the hands of those weighing MFD against the higher res 35mm cameras already deemed much faster, and cost a fraction of MFD. A stronger case can and should be made for MFD as the thinking photographer's choice, where concept and intent ... ideas and fulfillment of a thoughtful artistic vision ... is paramount, and all functional aspects of the MFD system are in support of that cause.
In reality, that is exactly what does happen at the users end. While there are those who stretch their use of MFD into areas better suited to other formats, it is playing to weakness, not strength ... and catering to this minority with the product is the tail wagging the dog.
-Marc
The technological aspect seemed mostly predictive and anyone involved in MFD knows most of that is extremely unreliable regardless of brand, especially in terms of timings. I guess it was there to say "We hear you, we are fine, and moving forward".
Not sure that such strong use of predictive innovation at such a heightened degree of change (CMOS/Live View) is the wisest path to support the MFD category ... it promises a ferocious rate of both obsolesces and new expenditures at what is ubiquitously considered stratospheric pricing structures.
The notion of constant upgrading at these price points argues against bringing in new converts to what will soon be obsolete equipment ... while this is common to all categories, all the others are far more sustainable. Those with existing MFD gear would either have to have a very healthy business success to sustain the rate of change, or own an oil field
.IMO, what is needed is strong support for those already in the category from all the brands, and especially such a strong player as Phase One/Leaf. As someone already mentioned, there are stronger arguments here on Get DPI than was presented in the video. Quantifiable arguments straight from the horse's mouth would further endorse already positive beliefs. These MFD companies need to mercilessly hammer this home, consistently and relentlessly.
:lecture: I think MFD has made a fundamental mistake in catering to consumer cries for higher ISO, faster rate of shooting, multiple AF points or any other functional aspect they cannot ever hope to win against 35mm offerings. IMO, it has wasted precious R&D resources, caused incremental change that is expensive to maintain on the users part, and done little to forward the real advantages of MFD :lecture:
I winced when the CEO used the word "slow" ... which plays right into the hands of those weighing MFD against the higher res 35mm cameras already deemed much faster, and cost a fraction of MFD. A stronger case can and should be made for MFD as the thinking photographer's choice, where concept and intent ... ideas and fulfillment of a thoughtful artistic vision ... is paramount, and all functional aspects of the MFD system are in support of that cause.
In reality, that is exactly what does happen at the users end. While there are those who stretch their use of MFD into areas better suited to other formats, it is playing to weakness, not strength ... and catering to this minority with the product is the tail wagging the dog.
-Marc
RVB
Member
Intelligent perspective's like your's,Joe Colson and Wayne's make are what make this forum one of the best if not the best resource on the web for people that have a serious interest in learning about high end photography..Odd interview IMO. Not quite sure what to make of it.
The technological aspect seemed mostly predictive and anyone involved in MFD knows most of that is extremely unreliable regardless of brand, especially in terms of timings. I guess it was there to say "We hear you, we are fine, and moving forward".
Not sure that such strong use of predictive innovation at such a heightened degree of change (CMOS/Live View) is the wisest path to support the MFD category ... it promises a ferocious rate of both obsolesces and new expenditures at what is ubiquitously considered stratospheric pricing structures.
The notion of constant upgrading at these price points argues against bringing in new converts to what will soon be obsolete equipment ... while this is common to all categories, all the others are far more sustainable. Those with existing MFD gear would either have to have a very healthy business success to sustain the rate of change, or own an oil field
IMO, what is needed is strong support for those already in the category from all the brands, and especially such a strong player as Phase One/Leaf. As someone already mentioned, there are stronger arguments here on Get DPI than was presented in the video. Quantifiable arguments straight from the horse's mouth would further endorse already positive beliefs. These MFD companies need to mercilessly hammer this home, consistently and relentlessly.
:lecture: I think MFD has made a fundamental mistake in catering to consumer cries for higher ISO, faster rate of shooting, multiple AF points or any other functional aspect they cannot ever hope to win against 35mm offerings. IMO, it has wasted precious R&D resources, caused incremental change that is expensive to maintain on the users part, and done little to forward the real advantages of MFD :lecture:
I winced when the CEO used the word "slow" ... which plays right into the hands of those weighing MFD against the higher res 35mm cameras already deemed much faster, and cost a fraction of MFD. A stronger case can and should be made for MFD as the thinking photographer's choice, where concept and intent ... ideas and fulfillment of a thoughtful artistic vision ... is paramount, and all functional aspects of the MFD system are in support of that cause.
In reality, that is exactly what does happen at the users end. While there are those who stretch their use of MFD into areas better suited to other formats, it is playing to weakness, not strength ... and catering to this minority with the product is the tail wagging the dog.
-Marc
I do think he does his best to mitigate the price issue when he make's a strong point of the Phase1 buy back scheme which takes in a 4-6yr old back at up to four times the price of a top canikon DSLR...
I am not so sure if current backs will become obsolete anytime soon,there is a thread on here for fat pixel backs,these old back's can still give superior I.Q to new DSLR's at base iso.. the price may fall fast but the I.Q remains..
Rob
I actually had that "fat pixel" thread in mind while writing my post Rob. It is support that the function of IQ is that of the format. So that is why I believe that the category must more aggressively promote the format in general, and rely less on what is next to perceptually stay viable.
Having been on the MFD upgrade merry-go-round, including trade-in and buy-backs, they certainly mitigate the cost factors, but the gap is still mind-boggingly expensive no matter how you do the math. MFD is very expensive to get into, and expensive to say in compared to any other category. If the rate of innovation excellerates over the next few years, it'll get even more expensive.
Plus that formula only works if you stay pat and resist upgrades, or stay current using upgrades. If you decide to opt out you'll quickly discover the real cost of MFD
-Marc
:ROTFL:
Me? Oh, you wouldn't want me take over anything if you place any value on it.
Anyway ...
I already mentioned some of what I think these companies should be doing ... selling against the ubiquitous, willy nilly, promiscuous making of images that other formats tend to promote.
I also think MFD is the ultimate "craftsman's" tool. The gestalt of it, not just the IQ. It is a sum that is greater than its parts.
If you think about it, that is how most practitioners actually use it. Much of what is shot is thought out in advance, or is at least thoughtful in nature (most advertising work, architecture, landscape ... even much portrait work).
As 35mm has advanced on the IQ front, and as it goes even further, one is forced to get more "craftsman" like to have any hope of realizing the ability of the camera at all. So now the two ways are on equal footing as far a process is concerned ... and it is here that MFD reveals the real advantages of operation and modular versatility for problem solving ... from a big bright viewfinder ... to all the specialized do-dads ... to the IQ itself ... even leaf-shutters (which is something I cannot live without now).
-Marc
RVB
Member
Definitely agree on leaf shutter's and the viewfinder,aspect ratio of Phase and hasselblad is another unique point that canikon is unlikely to match any time soon..ability to use tech camera's with Rodenstock glass is another.:ROTFL:
Me? Oh, you wouldn't want me take over anything if you place any value on it.
Anyway ...
I already mentioned some of what I think these companies should be doing ... selling against the ubiquitous, willy nilly, promiscuous making of images that other formats tend to promote.
I also think MFD is the ultimate "craftsman's" tool. The gestalt of it, not just the IQ. It is a sum that is greater than its parts.
If you think about it, that is how most practitioners actually use it. Much of what is shot is thought out in advance, or is at least thoughtful in nature (most advertising work, architecture, landscape ... even much portrait work).
As 35mm has advanced on the IQ front, and as it goes even further, one is forced to get more "craftsman" like to have any hope of realizing the ability of the camera at all. So now the two ways are on equal footing as far a process is concerned ... and it is here that MFD reveals the real advantages of operation and modular versatility for problem solving ... from a big bright viewfinder ... to all the specialized do-dads ... to the IQ itself ... even leaf-shutters (which is something I cannot live without now).
-Marc
I also like the earlier comment about selling out being very expensive,I came close to selling my H4d last year but it was not worth it in the end,I will hang on and upgrade when I have the greenbacks to spare..
It really is like a mafia,easy to get in and hard to get out..
Rob