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Thread: Problem with freezing.

  1. #1
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    Problem with freezing.

    Any profoto shooters here? I got 2 profoto 7a 2400w packs. Shooting this girl but I get motion blur. Using 2 packs both at 1/16 power which should be 1/8000 in flash duration according to: http://www.profoto.com/sites/default...e_EN_Pro-7.pdf (page 24). Tried both with radio and sync cord. Any ideas?

    Shot with Phase one DF 110mm 1/250s iso 100

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Maybe your modeling light is always on?

    Or maybe your studio is not dark enough, and ambient light smears a bit ?

    d

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Quote Originally Posted by dqv View Post
    Maybe your modeling light is always on?

    Or maybe your studio is not dark enough, and ambient light smears a bit ?

    d

    Same problem with f/22 and 1/1600 iso 100

    No model light on nor ambient in the studio.

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    humm thats weird static images are sharp?

    did you try chanel b alone and just one flash head. since b has less power and will give shorter flash times.

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Statit image sharp.

    tried with 2 flashes in b1 and b2. One flash in A. One flash in b1 and one in b2 same results. Everything on lowest power setting.

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Try to put just 1 torch on the pack.
    channel b1 or b2

    d

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    I did that.

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    what kind of heads are you using on the packs

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    The image is a 100% crop or the full frame? This is which back and what f-number?

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    100% crop

    f/16 iq140

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Pro 7 heads, new ones.

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    humm i'm afraid i dont know the answer.

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Lol me neither

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    :P didnt you put clairty on -50 gives the same effect :P

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    haha nope thing is i get it to work with a speedlite.

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Same issues on a 5dmk2 aswell ...

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    hahaha i'm afraid the Pro 8 packs are the answer :P

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    ouch

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Cheaper solution: tell her to hold still

    Can you not test it with the very lowest setting for flash duration?
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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    I think, this must be the leaf shutter mode. Have you tried out the X-Mode?

    Have you got good pictures in the past with the leaf shutter mode or was this your first test?
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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    In the menu do you have it set for leaf shutter. I don't have a DF to look at the settings but there is a setting for this. Look for the PDF of menu items on the DF
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    In the menu do you have it set for leaf shutter. I don't have a DF to look at the settings but there is a setting for this. Look for the PDF of menu items on the DF
    Same problem with and without leafshutter lenses.

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    This is weird, because even at 250/th of a second there shouldn't be that much motion... with or without the lights... are you shooting with lots of lights in the studio?
    Is the model moving fast in the photo you shot? It would seem like something other than the lights if you have two packs and they are both doing the same thing.
    Can you show us the full image (not 100 percent cropped)

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Just noticed you are shooting at f/22 - maybe its a lens issue at such a small aperture?

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Quote Originally Posted by shortpballer View Post
    Just noticed you are shooting at f/22 - maybe its a lens issue at such a small aperture?
    No same issue f 8, 11 and 16

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Quote Originally Posted by shortpballer View Post
    This is weird, because even at 250/th of a second there shouldn't be that much motion... with or without the lights... are you shooting with lots of lights in the studio?
    Is the model moving fast in the photo you shot? It would seem like something other than the lights if you have two packs and they are both doing the same thing.
    Can you show us the full image (not 100 percent cropped)
    In studio the shutter speed doesnt freeze the movement.

    She is sprinting but starting about 2-3 meters before the shot so she is not really getting any momentum.

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/35705091/blur.jpg

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Quote Originally Posted by geronimo13 View Post
    In studio the shutter speed doesnt freeze the movement.

    She is sprinting but starting about 2-3 meters before the shot so she is not really getting any momentum.

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/35705091/blur.jpg

    Considering your shooting condition: no modeling light, no ambi-light in the studio, which means a dark condition, that non-freezing problem in just because of the ability of the Profoto Pro7.

    Yes, freezing motion almost (there are other considerations) has nothing to do with the shutter speed, but the flash duration, provided that shutter speed is:
    1, with the camera sync speed;
    2, with the trigger sync speed (PW Plus II or III only supports 1/500 sec);
    3, the most important, LONGER than the flash duration.

    The later 2 conditions are not widely recognized by 99.9% photographers I have seen.

    Check the Pro7 user manual again, and you can see a flash duration chart on page 41. From that chart, you can see the shortest duration is 1/3000 at output setting from 300Ws to 18,75Ws, but you should also notice that flash duration is t0.5 which is about 3 times longer than the actual USUABLE duration of t0.1 (time of 90% powerpack output). That is to say you actually get 1/1000 sec flash duration from your Profoto.

    Can that 1/1000 sec freeze that girl shot? It depends, because other factors can longer the flash duration, such as the age of the flash tube, the extension cable you use (the longer the longer).

    If you stick on Profoto, the two choices to accomplish that kind of job are the Pro8 (which can reach 1/4000 sec flash duration t0.1), or the B4 which may reach 1/8000 to 1/10000 sec (it uses the cut-off technology as Broncolor does, but that sacrifices some color temperature stability) flash duration t0.1.

    You can shoot the pouring water to test the true ability of your Pro7. From the beginning the water is at very low speed, and at the end it is at much higher speed, and you can see at which max speed the Pro7 can freeze the water.

    Best,

    Xin

    Leading Cinema & Photography Equipment Rental House in China

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Quote Originally Posted by xinchenc View Post
    Considering your shooting condition: no modeling light, no ambi-light in the studio, which means a dark condition, that non-freezing problem in just because of the ability of the Profoto Pro7.

    Yes, freezing motion almost (there are other considerations) has nothing to do with the shutter speed, but the flash duration, provided that shutter speed is:
    1, with the camera sync speed;
    2, with the trigger sync speed (PW Plus II or III only supports 1/500 sec);
    3, the most important, LONGER than the flash duration.

    The later 2 conditions are not widely recognized by 99.9% photographers I have seen.

    Check the Pro7 user manual again, and you can see a flash duration chart on page 41. From that chart, you can see the shortest duration is 1/3000 at output setting from 300Ws to 18,75Ws, but you should also notice that flash duration is t0.5 which is about 3 times longer than the actual USUABLE duration of t0.1 (time of 90% powerpack output). That is to say you actually get 1/1000 sec flash duration from your Profoto.

    Can that 1/1000 sec freeze that girl shot? It depends, because other factors can longer the flash duration, such as the age of the flash tube, the extension cable you use (the longer the longer).

    If you stick on Profoto, the two choices to accomplish that kind of job are the Pro8 (which can reach 1/4000 sec flash duration t0.1), or the B4 which may reach 1/8000 to 1/10000 sec (it uses the cut-off technology as Broncolor does, but that sacrifices some color temperature stability) flash duration t0.1.

    You can shoot the pouring water to test the true ability of your Pro7. From the beginning the water is at very low speed, and at the end it is at much higher speed, and you can see at which max speed the Pro7 can freeze the water.

    Best,

    Xin

    Leading Cinema & Photography Equipment Rental House in China

    Finally somone that knows! Thank you so muhc I will test this as soon as I can.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    there is another approach than doing it with short flash. Ever thought about HSS or FP Mode ? a definite 1/8000sec on both Nikon and Canon bodies.

    Four Flash Photography Basics we must know - Auto FP and HSS

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1245665&type=1

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    there is another approach than doing it with short flash. Ever thought about HSS or FP Mode ? a definite 1/8000sec on both Nikon and Canon bodies.

    Four Flash Photography Basics we must know - Auto FP and HSS

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1245665&type=1

    regards
    Stefan
    Not what I was looking for but thank you.

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    A question for the sync cord connection.
    Did you use the sync splitter for 2 packs?
    I think the best way for using 2 packs, is to use a cord splitter to connect 2 packs.

    Nisha Multi Outlet Plug MOP B&H Photo Video

    PS_make sure to turn off the power packs before connecting with this splitter(plug). Otherwise, the head(s) will pop up continuously in itself due to the uncontrolled loose? electricity... a guess.

    For water splash shot, I prefer usually 1/4000-1/8000 s t0.1(!!!) which I can get through Broncolor... depending...
    But for the falling object( ex. falling medicine pills), I can't get the usual sharp image even with 1/10000(t 0.1) s of the newer broncolor scoro packs. The sharp image we are seeing( ex. bullet flying) is captured using very special scientific power packs which I don't know about... I heard...
    Last edited by studio347; 4th April 2013 at 21:55.

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Flash unit for freezing motion:

    Broncolor at $10,000
    Einstein at $500

    The Einstein freezes superbly, and after two years I can report no issues.
    I treat my equipment very gently, so I can't attest to their sturdiness.
    The Einstein remote control system is the best I've seen including Profoto, Bowens and Elinchrom.

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    I have experienced the same problem. The solution is to use the twin-tube head. I have attached an example. Cheers

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    Re: Problem with freezing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roderick Chen View Post
    I have experienced the same problem. The solution is to use the twin-tube head. I have attached an example. Cheers
    In theory, the bi-tube can shorten the duration half with an additional power pack. But the important condition for this is that the 2 power packs have to fire at the exact same time. I think Cell sync doesn't work since even though light speed is fast, the power pack firing operation time is not fast enough. The wired splitter sync might be an answer. But I didn't test it out yet_ the bi-tube + wired sync. Even if you can achieve 1/10000 s t 0.1 with the exact same time firing bi-tube, we can't freeze(relative term...) some moving subject depending on the speed... There is a certain limit even with the best equipment and the best practice with it

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