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Thread: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    I'm considering buying an MF system that is a bit more portable than the GX680 (which I will keep), and since I would like to have 6x6 film plus AF plus the option of going digital later, Rollei seems to be an obvious choice, 6008 AF or the Hy6.

    Monies are limited, so the 6008 is tempting. Those of you who have used both; what does the Hy6 (model 1) have that the 6008 AF doesn't?

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    The Hy6, in my opinion, has better ergonomics and a much better battery system. The stock 6008AF batteries are pretty terrible, at least by this point in time. Sometimes, particularly in the cold (maybe not a problem for you unless you come home!), the batteries will only work for a single roll on a full charge, particularly if you have let them sit for a few days. So unless you replace the batteries with fresh packs and use a new style charger, your 6008AF experience will be one in battery management. The 6008AF also shuts itself off rather quickly, because of the battery issue, so often when you come back to the camera, you will need to wake it up...it will make a small noise and be ready to shoot in less than a second, but it is still a little annoying.

    The Hy6 uses newer lithium batteries, and they are just standard camcorder style batteries, so they should not be hard to find or replace.
    Overall, the Hy6 is lighter and more refined to use, though the body shape is a bit strange (quite long compared to most cameras!). The release is more refined...the Hy6 has a nice large button that has some tactile feedback. The green plastic release on my 6008AF was pretty finicky. It required a very light touch for the half-press, and just the tiniest bit more pressure would trigger the release. Even after using it for years, I would still occasionally have misfires. The shutter and film winding are LOUD. The loudest of any camera I have owned. Loud enough to make subjects jump the first time they hear it, and I took to warning people. The Hy6 is much quieter and better damped.

    I did not find either camera to be particularly good with AF, though I would give the edge to the Hy6. The S2 blows them both away in this regard, as the D3 blows away the S2! Even if you want to use AF, I would consider investing in a split-image microprism screen, just so you have quick visual confirmation on what is being focused upon.

    Despite the annoyances, I would probably still recommend the 6008AF, especially if the money is an issue. But only for film use! Despite all I say above, it is a very charming camera to work with. I think the film magazine design for the 6x6 back is better than the backs designed for the Hy6. They are bigger, but they are quick to load and the long straight film path leads to sharp results. I got sharper results on my 6008AF than I did on my Hasselblad, even though the lenses were often the same (110/2 Planar for example). The viewfinder is superb in both cameras, particularly with the waist-level finder. I liked the look and overall tactile feedback of the 6008AF better than I did the Hy6. The Hy6 is easier to shoot handheld, but the 6008 has actual shutter speed rings and aperture rings...the Hy6 did away with that. It is certainly better looking to me than the Hy6, but that's simply taste!
    One caveat would be that if you are going to require AF, the 6008AF will require you have AF lenses with aperture rings. They dropped those lenses later in the production, which was a real poor decision in my mind. So if you are looking for all AF lenses, it might be easier with the Hy6.

    I have never used 6x6 on the Hy6...I sold mine before they came out with the back....I waited for years, finally got fed up and sold it all and moved to the S2 and stuck with the Hasselblad for a film MF-SLR. I know I will have detractors for saying this, but I would avoid both for digital use! I think the systems that were built from the ground up for digital like the S2 are just light-years better. I had the Hy6 with the e54LV 22mp back, which is admittedly old, but it was not even in the same century as the S2 in results, handling or lens performance. Given that S2's are now being sold under 10,000 dollars, I think if digital is in your future, better to consider that route. Keep film cameras for shooting film, and digital cameras for shooting digital. The hybrid solutions are not particularly effective, at least not in my experience.
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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    This should be an interesting discussion. I started with a 6003 about 20 years ago, and have enjoyed the system a great deal ever since. It was preferred to a Hassy V because of its better ergonomics, and bluntly speaking, more up to date. THe metering, film handling, and new line of lenses just stood out.

    From there, to a 6008AF, tried with a Phase P20 back, one of the few that will work with it. I found the experience less than wonderful, but in hindsight, that may have been due to operator clumsiness. However, the AF with the digital back is a bit of a cludge, compared to how well it works for film. It does work, but its not great handheld, as the mirror vibration plus the slow back speed conspire against you. That said, good shots are quite possible with this combination, and everyone I know who has used it looks back on it with a smile of some sort. The battery issue is real, but they have been remade (insides reconfigured) and then they aren't a problem - so if you go that route, just know there are answers.

    The 6003/8 have super film handling - the back is quite well designed and the whole system is pretty robust. Yes, the green button can be a bit fiddly, but its a delight to use, mostly for film.

    The Hy6 is another leap forward, and designed well for digital use. The handle is not removable (unlike the 600X) and the form factor is a bit odd, but the usability of the camera is very fine. Info buttons, mirror lockup, focus adjustments, etc. are just right where you need them, and the handle window shows all the info. Its extremely well thought out, and works quite nicely. Its probably not as robust as the 6008, but with care it does just fine. Mines been hiking all around, in freezing weather and the Amazon jungles without a glitch.

    The integration with digital use is the reason for the Hy6. It just works very well. THe mirror vibration is easily half the 600X, and there are so many features (delayed shutter, focus trap, etc....) that you can explore with the camera for years and still find more.

    There are advantages to other systems too, like the S2, as Stuart says, but the ability to change the pieces easily (viewfinder, back, lenses, etc) in the Hy6 give it some pretty good flexibility. Here's a writeup on the Hy6 if you are interested in more info:
    http://www.gigi-photos.com/hy6.pdf

    and also check out: Pascal's Rolleiflex Pages

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    As usual - Stuart Richardson - has given an excellent summary and opinion!

    The Hy6 and a bunch of (then) expensive Rollie lenses was probably the single dumbest decision I have ever made regarding buying into a 'system'. I learned a very valuable lesson out of that exercise- do my homework thoroughly - at least then you can tear up well over $40K dollars and only blame yourself.

    Fast forward to today and you can buy a very good Hy6 and matching Sinar 75LVr - for well under 10K. This makes it a totally different value proposition for anyone interested in a real bargain capable of delivering outstanding results. I can vouch for the quality of the 40/80/110 and 180 lenses. The 110/2 Zeiss is the same planar as the famous FE Hasselblad version - except with massive glass.

    If you want a nice waist level viewfinder experience - I rate the Hy6 up there with a Mamiya RZ. The shutter is nicely dampened( improved on the second generation model now) and the Schneider glass in manual or auto versions is as good as any other manufacturer - except for Leica S2.

    I am sad that things didn't work out for Sinar regarding single shot backs - I still reckon they deliver the best linear colour file one could hope for - but you are limited to a maximum 33 megapixels - in a 'dead' system.

    All the best
    Pete

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    I was in exactly the same situation two years ago, wanting 6x6, film, AF, with the potential to add-on digital later.

    Two years later, I am fully invested in what I consider to be a very robust and complete Hy6 setup. Shooting film - no problem with the 6x6 or 6x4.5 backs. Shooting digital - no problem, 80mp Credo back is an absolute joy to use (and you've also still got the Afi lineups available as well, some still shipping new). Autofocus is as good as I'd expect from a medium format workhorse, and I am very pleased with both the performance and accuracy. No, it's not as flexible as a Canon 5D Mk II or III would be with zillions of AF points, but working within the limitations, I think the tradeoff is well worth it for the quality results you get from the Schneider lenses.

    I have not had the chance to lay hands upon a 600x series camera, but after researching all of the issues (and "solutions") to the battery problems, I decided it was well worth it to spend the extra $$ up front to just eliminate that problem for good. A dual Pearstone charger with several battery plates will do you perfectly for keeping batteries charged in a Hy6 + Leaf back scenario.

    Keep in mind too, that while the S2 was mentioned quite a bit, it is not 6x6. Nor film.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    Thank you all for some great feedback. It's a jungle out there, and the possible mistakes are queuing up by the dozen. Many things here that I wasn't aware of.

    One possibility would be to buy a 6008 and shoot film while gathering the necessary lenses. I don't see myself buying many, but they are rather expensive, so I have to take it little by little. The Sinar 75LVr is tethered only, isn't it? That would be a nice option for my GX680 (although I've been considering a multishot back for that one), but not so convenient for a camera that I plan to use for travel etc.

    Has the 110/2 ever been made in an AF version?

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    I still have both my 6008AF and two Hy6/AFi bodies. These are fantastic cameras. Stick to Schneider lenses if you can since they are more modern designs - and usually regarded as superior to the zeiss offerings for the Rollei with the exception of the 110/2.

    Stuart is right to mention the battery issue on 6000 series as this was the Achilles heel of the system. The problem was they developed a memory and if not diligently run down till they were flat, or let charge till full they would loose life. But they can be recelled with modern batteries and work fine.

    Geoff mentions the hand hold-ability.... he and I have discussed this and maybe differ. I find I can much more easily hand hold my 6008 and Hy6 than any other camera that I've used including my DSLR's. I will often shoot at 1/30 with great results, and am not afraid to shoot at 1/15 or 1/8. I will shoot several frames at that speed, but usually one will be sharp. Here I think the Hy6/AFi has an advantage, however many 6008AF users did not realize that the shutter operation can be configured in the custom menu - they have a soft shot setting to muffle the sound which also helps vibration. I didn't find the need for this, but its there as are many other options.

    The autofocus is faster on the Hy6 but I don't use it much on either since the finder is very good. What Stuart says, about the S2 being faster one would have to believe since has has experience with both, however I think the Hy6 is extremely accurate and when I tried the S2 it would truly lock on the subject sometimes after two or three tries. I'm sure the Leica is a great camera and probably one of the only camera/lens platforms a person could move to from the Rollei and be content.

    I find the ergonomics very similar between 6008AF and Hy6 but the newer camera is definitely an improvement. Probably if I were to shoot mostly film and mostly 6x6, I would still take my 6008AF since the 6x6 film loading is incredibly streamlined on the 6008AF. You can have pre-loaded inserts ready and just pop them in. I guess its similar in the hy6 but somehow just not as perfect. The 645 backs are virtually the same however. Film metering with both cameras is really quite good. I'd say you won't find better in a MF film camera. With digital the Hy6 metering is better than the 6008AF.
    I shoot primarily with an AFi-ii 12 digital back with occasional film use, and for that the AFi is really an incredible mate. This is a near perfect system for me.

    There are many options for finders on both platforms - WLF, 45 and 90 deg prisms, and also a magnifying style lupe finder.
    I find for myself that I use the 45 degree prism the most, followed by the lupe.

    One thing not mentioned - service. The 6008AF camera was the end of a long development cycle. I've shot something like 40,000 frames on 6008AF bodies with no real issues. It's a tough solid camera that really works. You can find local shops that have experience with repairing the 6000 series if they ever need it. Now, I've shot maybe 10,000 or 15000 frames on the Hy6's without issues to the camera function but have broken some of the plastic on the body - around the grip screen. I don't think the Hy6 mod 1 is quite as solid as the 6008AF, but its still probably better than many other makes such as the DF. Nonetheless, this is one area that Rollei / DHW made improvements on with the Mod2.

    Regarding digital back pathways - if you buy a 6000 series camera try to stick with a 6008AF if you wish to go to a digital back. There are backs from Imacon/hasselblad, Phase, and Sinar available.

    If you go with the Hy6, a couple things to consider. First look for a body that has firmware v3.10 or V3.10a3 because this will have been updated with the better AF cells which is worth a fair bit more. You can not update bodies that don't have v2.1 or higher firmware. Most of the v3.10 bodies can be updated to Mod2 later if you wish but not all apparently.

    It looks like Sinar support of the Hy6 platform only includes Mod 1 bodies and stops with Mod2. I would be weary of Starting with Sinar backs at this point, but no doubt this will be factored into the price and it may still look like an attractive solution. I think the phase software is great and for me the most easiest to use. Its an important factor in the digital back decision.

    Any other questions just ask!
    Last edited by EH21; 9th May 2013 at 14:00.
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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Has the 110/2 ever been made in an AF version?
    Not to my knowledge, and just finding a Rollei mount version of this lens is a challenge. But I did manage to track one down several months ago and am blown away by the images it produces. Truly an outstanding performer, gorgeous bokeh.

    Regarding the temptation to switch platforms, I know I've considered ditching it altogether - the money investment is considerable. But... in my opinion there really is no alternative system that gets you to the shoot armed with both an analog and digital solution, in 6x6 (film) / ~6x4.5 (digital) formats, and with autofocus. I may just be a semi-pro enthusiast (this is by no means my day job), but for me I wanted something beyond all the DSLRs out there, while at the same time having at least a decent chance of getting some shots of my kids running around and playing while they are still young. I get that and more with the Hy6, and so would not trade it for twice what I paid for it. (well, maybe if a sucker came along and offered twice, then I could double my gear allotment! Ahhh... GAS... )

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    I've had both systems (with digital backs). I preferred the Hy6, especially for digital, and there are more back options for the Hy6 too. However, it is considerably more expensive.

    If you're a film shooter then I'd probably go for the 6008AF. You can always keep the lenses and sell the body then get a Hy6 with digital back when the time comes.

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post

    If you're a film shooter then I'd probably go for the 6008AF. You can always keep the lenses and sell the body then get a Hy6 with digital back when the time comes.
    Sounds like a plan.

    I have to read and digest all the awesome information that have come up on this thread and get back with more questions later this weekend. Thank you all for sharing

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    During the process, the digital part of this has become more important, mostly because I need a digital back for my GX680. The backs that are most suitable are the CF and CFV backs from Hasselblad, and the primary candidate is the CF-39. Now, the questions:

    - Has anybody here used a CF-39 or a 6008 AF or Hy6?
    - Is the adapter plate the same for the two cameras? If not, the Hy6 is out of the question for this back.
    - To use the CF-39 on the GX680, I would have to change Hasselblad adapter, either to a Hasselblad/GX680 adapter or to a Hasselblad V adapter to allow the stitching adapter from Kapture Group. Is the change of Hasselblad adapters on the CF-39 a straight forward procedure?

    Or should I just go the simple route with a CFV-39 and a Hasselblad camera? I would lose AF but it would certainly be cheaper. Another alternative would be a Hasselblad H, but then I would lose 6x6... questions, questions.

    Is the Zeiss 40mm the widest lens for the Rollei btw.?

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    i had a 6008 with the phase/Rollei P20 back and several schneider lenses, loved it, but moved on, as the CV39 was too much of a lure, to the 203TCC, another great paltform. finally couldn't deal with the rectangular format in what was designed to be a sq format (probably the same gripe applies to rectangular on the 6008) and went to the H3/39. nothing wrong with the H series, plenty of them and lenses around. eventually traded the H3/39 for an H2 (which can take film backs) and a tech camera with IQ160, H-mount,. the IQ works very well on the H2 for those occasions when i want DSLR

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    The allure of the V system is strong to be sure, but there are many practical advantages to the 6008 or the Hy6. Try them and compare.

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    i had a 6008 with the phase/Rollei P20 back and several schneider lenses, loved it, but moved on, as the CV39 was too much of a lure, to the 203TCC, another great paltform. finally couldn't deal with the rectangular format in what was designed to be a sq format (probably the same gripe applies to rectangular on the 6008) and went to the H3/39. nothing wrong with the H series, plenty of them and lenses around. eventually traded the H3/39 for an H2 (which can take film backs) and a tech camera with IQ160, H-mount,. the IQ works very well on the H2 for those occasions when i want DSLR
    The H2, or even an H1, has crossed my mind as a possibility of course. I guess I could live with the rectangular format for film as well. It's at least more economical than 6x6, 25% no less. Or a wrecked, non-functional H1 for upgrade to an H4X, in my view the most attractive of all the Hasselfujis.

    Since I seem to be doing this in the opposite sequence of what I planned, the initial budget has obviously exploded. I might have to sell some of the gear that see little use. Maybe that's healthy?

    Edit: Found a thread from March. The CF backs are not compatible with the Hy6. That was what I feared. Thank you, Steve. There's also a used Hy6, mod. 1, for sale at the Buy and Sell forum for what seems to be a reasonable price. Does anybody now the seller? Might be a bit too soon for me anyway, but...

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    I honestly think you should put aside any thoughts of having a digital back that will work well on a GX680 AND a Hy6 or 6008. My experience with the Sinar back led me to believe this adapter solution is not really that great...certainly not if you intend to switch back and forth a lot.
    Furthermore, the idea of having a Rollei 6008 or Hy6 as a compact or travel camera is not practical. These are big, heavy cameras. They are not really much lighter or smaller than your GX680. Again, I would highly recommend getting a digital only system for digital, and stick with your film system for film....
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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    You are probably right, Stuart. A cheap solution would be to shoot tethered with a 22MP Sinar back with the GX680 and buy whatever other solution I fancy later for travel. The old Sinar backs are cheap and should work well with the Fuji in studio. The challenge with the Fuji for travel isn't just the size, but the shape of it and all the knobs and levers sticking out. It's difficult to fit into camera bags that are suitable for my kind of travel, which usually happens without a car. Some of the lenses are also huge and the camera is much slower to set up than any other MF camera I've used. Then there's the AE viewfinder which comes in a little suitcase that could room most of what I normally need for a weekend

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    I own both a Rollei 6008AF and a Fuji 680III. I can't agree with what Stuart writes. I have taken my 6008AF with a three to five lens kit all over including long trips with lots of hiking including Yosemite and Utah canyons. It's easy to put the 6008AF with one lens into a shoulder bag and carry all day long. The 6008AF with the grip fitted is very easy to hold. I don't think its much different than going out with a pro DSLR and a couple lenses. The fuji 680 is in a whole different category.

    Also the ixpress backs can easily be changed between the Rollei and 680. I don't see the issues there?
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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    There was a slimmer version, the 6003, with a removable back (in case you wanted to fit the deeper 6008 series backs with darkslides). I took mine all over the place. The Hy6 is a bit awkward as the handle doesn't come off from the side as it did in the 6003 (lovely that), but it too has been all over.

    Hiking in jungles... Napo RIver, Ecuador.

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    Thanks, Geoff and EH21. You give me new hope
    I keep forgetting which Rollei 6000 series cameras that have which features. Some lack metering, some have a fixed back, only the 6008 AF has AF but they all have battery problems and they are all lovely cameras with lovely lenses.

    The removable grip is an important feature. I grew up with a Rolleiflex TLR and prefer shooting WLF cameras without a grip.

    Will the 6003 take digital backs as well?

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    Sort of. The 6008 AF is the only one that takes the DP20, the others can (I think) take the Imacon (Hassy) backs. Take a look at Pascal's Rolleiflex Pages where you can learn almost anything.

    The 6003 and 6008 varied only a little bit: the 6003 had a simpler (base) back, and didn't have quite the programmability of the 6008, but otherwise they were very much the same. All the same main features. The 6008AF is a later model, and allowed for the AF (and thus the AFD) lenses. I wouldn't get too hung up on the battery issue as its been solved. But if you are thinking about a digital back, be sure which one you are going after and shop accordingly. A film based 6003 (yes mine could be avail) is a great simple way in. They all use the same lenses, except that the most current AF, or ones without aperture rings are NOT backwards compatible. But all the manual PQ lenses can be used on all the 600X and Hy6 cameras.

    Its a bit complicated, but very simple and makes once you are in the system.

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    I still have to disagree. The body of the 6008AF alone is pretty heavy, and it is an awkward shape...it generally does not fit camera bags well as it is too tall or bulky in the wrong dimensions. When you add digital backs and their batteries add more weight, especially if you will take along a film back and film as well. Certain lenses like the 40mm Schneider, 60mm, 80mm and 150mm f/4 lenses are small and not too heavy, but I was mostly using the 110/2, 180/2.8 and so on...these lenses are of course not light or small by anyone's criteria. The body with small lenses is not heavier than a big pro SLR and 2 or 3 zoom kit, but that does not mean it is fun to carry around all day. At least, it wasn't for me...

    Everyone has their metrics and comparisons, but personally I am very happy that I got rid of the Hy6 and 6008 system and got the S2...my experience has improved, and so to has my work. Using that, along with something like a Mamiya 7 is a far more pleasant kit for me. If I were to travel or hike with a medium format film kit, it would be a Mamiya 7, 6 or Plaubel Makina. The SLR's are just too big and bulky to make them worth lugging around unless it is for an actual planned shoot. For most travel, I actually just use a M9 and a 35mm lens. Maybe I will bring along a 75mm too if I will be gone for a long time. Bringing more than that means dragging a lead weight around your shoulder through the endless march of airports, trains and cars that constitute travel in the 21st century. The cameras are already so good today as to print very large from even something like the 18mp M9...I know I got better image quality from the 18mp M9 than I did from the 22mp Sinar back, despite its megapixel and sensor size advantages.
    But everyone's different! I know Eric is a great photographer and loves the Rollei kit (he even has some of mine!!), but while I know the Rollei is superb, my own experience led me away from it.

    P.S. I am not saying to buy the S2 either! But it seems to me that spending a lot of money on a defunct or semi-defunct MFDB is a bad choice. I know I lost a huge amount of money on the Sinar back in only two years or so. I think it is best to stick to something newer, as long as it fits your budget...a 645D, S2, IQ140, H4D etc. The Hasselblad CF backs were really expensive last time I checked (many years ago!)...
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    Stuart, prices of old backs are rather low now. A 22MP Sinar can be had for little over $2,000 and I've seen 39MP Hasselblad as low as 7,000. With the next generation of high end DSLR cameras, they will only go lower.

    I would actually love to have an S2 or an S, but it's a lot of money for a camera that doesn't solve my primary challenge: a digital back for the big Fuji. The Pentax is obviously in the same category. I do have many cameras that are much more suitable for travel than any MF gear, but I've come to like MF, and being able to change between film and digital is excellent. The Mamiya 7, as nice as it is, doesn't offer any digital option, and the selection of good lenses is limited to say the least.

    As for weight: The GX680 is between 4 and 4.5 kilograms with lens, film holder and viewfinder. Each extra lens is 0.5 to 1.0 kilograms. The Rollei 6008 AF is 1.5 kilograms plus lens and the lenses are considerably smaller and also lighter than the Fuji equivalents. Still, I have been travelling with the Fuji and 3 lenses in a backpack, on a motorbike. It's doable and rather rewarding when I reach my destination, but smaller would be more convenient, and most of the time, I don't need tilt/shift for travel, although that's fun to have also

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    As much as I love the Rollei gear, Stuart is not totally wrong. The weight adds up - I tend to use the 60 and 80 lenses, carrying a 150 Telexenar, and the 1.5 TX only. if you pick the wrong lenses, the weight can get out of control - so the 110, 180 don't cut it. That's also why the slim and trim 6003 (when shooting film) was better.

    The S2 is a neat camera, but SLR's aren't the same as WLF. If you commit to film, the TLR's are pretty cool too. Overall, the use of the 6008/Hy6 system is a bit of a strain on the older body for walk around and travel.

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Stuart, prices of old backs are rather low now. A 22MP Sinar can be had for little over $2,000 and I've seen 39MP Hasselblad as low as 7,000. With the next generation of high end DSLR cameras, they will only go lower.

    I would actually love to have an S2 or an S, but it's a lot of money for a camera that doesn't solve my primary challenge: a digital back for the big Fuji. The Pentax is obviously in the same category. I do have many cameras that are much more suitable for travel than any MF gear, but I've come to like MF, and being able to change between film and digital is excellent. The Mamiya 7, as nice as it is, doesn't offer any digital option, and the selection of good lenses is limited to say the least.

    As for weight: The GX680 is between 4 and 4.5 kilograms with lens, film holder and viewfinder. Each extra lens is 0.5 to 1.0 kilograms. The Rollei 6008 AF is 1.5 kilograms plus lens and the lenses are considerably smaller and also lighter than the Fuji equivalents. Still, I have been travelling with the Fuji and 3 lenses in a backpack, on a motorbike. It's doable and rather rewarding when I reach my destination, but smaller would be more convenient, and most of the time, I don't need tilt/shift for travel, although that's fun to have also


    if you are going to back off 6x6, why go S2? Smaller format than 645. I had sold all my Contax 645, looked at EVERYTHING MF ( and tested S2 three times for 5 weeks total) and wound up with the contax again. It is one of the best 'fit in your hand MF systems, and the lenses are balanced to the back. The S2 is WAY out of balance, and the Hasse camera's are just monsters of plastic (at least they feel that way.

    Lots of back, film options...

    so yes, I've always been a Contax booster, but I REALLy looked for 2 years at an alternative, and found none.

    Plus you get H V lenses

    Victor

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    if you are going to back off 6x6, why go S2? Smaller format than 645. I had sold all my Contax 645, looked at EVERYTHING MF ( and tested S2 three times for 5 weeks total) and wound up with the contax again. It is one of the best 'fit in your hand MF systems, and the lenses are balanced to the back. The S2 is WAY out of balance, and the Hasse camera's are just monsters of plastic (at least they feel that way.

    Lots of back, film options...

    so yes, I've always been a Contax booster, but I REALLy looked for 2 years at an alternative, and found none.

    Plus you get H V lenses

    Victor
    The advantage with the S2 (or indeed S) is that I would be able to get rid of all my Nikon gear, since it's a DSLR from a functional point of view. Apart from that, I agree. I also agree about the Contax, although it's 645. My worry is spare parts and repairs.

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    Pentax 645D with a Pentax 645 NII film body as a backup. They share the same lenses.

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Pentax 645D with a Pentax 645 NII film body as a backup. They share the same lenses.
    I know, I know... and that 25mm lens is actually a bargain compared to most of the competition. But again, it has the same problem as the S2: I can't mount the back on the Fuji, and the Fuji is the camera that will actually generate the most income, film or digital. Most of what the Pentax and the Leica can do can be done with a D800, at least as long as we talk commercial photography.

    I have of course also considered buying a D800, since I'm a Nikon user anyway, and a set of PC-E lenses. Unfortunately, the investment would be in the same area as a 39MP Hasselblad back, and in my experience, the Fuji is much easier to use and focus with tilt and/or shift. If I use a back with V-mount, I also have the option of a stitching adapter, increasing the file size by around 90%.

    Now I see that the Hy6 is actually much more lightweight than the 6008 at 1.8kg with film holder and 80mm lens. That's less than half the weight of the GX680 in a similar configuration. Even a D800 is 1.2kg with a 50mm.

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    As it looks now, I'll probably go for 2 digital backs, one for tethered shooting with the GX680 and one for whatever "portable" solution I go for. Older Sinar backs are becoming cheap, so I can hopefully live with the extra cost.

    When it comes to 6008 vs. Hy6 vs. the world... the Hy6 has been my favourite MF camera for years (except the GX680), and the last few days reading specs, reviews and responses on this fantastic forum haven't weakened its status. Rather the opposite, actually. It seems to me to be the optimal solution unless I want something with an integrated sensor (Leica/Pentax). There have of course been fears that it might be discontinued, but most of my cameras are, and they still work fine. If nobody buys it, it will be discontinued for sure

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    I'm not too concerned about the Hy6 being discontinued. DHW have solidified the licensing issues over the camera and have come out with the Mod 2 version, so things are alive and well for the time being. (and the Mod 2 upgrade, to me, is well worth it, if for no other reason than the grip feels even more firm and solidly attached to the camera now, very capable of supporting the weight of some of the heavyweights like the 110 f/2 or 180 f/2.8 AFD).

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    Re: Rollei... 6008 AF or Hy6

    Wow! There sure are some good choices out there for cameras these days.
    Stuart, it's okay if we disagree on the camera - its a personal choice of course.

    Regarding the weight - I'll bet a kit with a S and a couple lenses might be closer to the Hy6 and a couple lenses in weight than one might expect. I mean the S body weighs 1.4 kg and the Hy6 actually weighs less at 1.3kg. A normal lens on the S with central shutter like the Rollei is 890 grams or about 40 grams more than the Rollei AF 80mm PQS. So at least if you were going out with a Hy6 + standard lens and film back it would weight less than a Leica S + standard lens.

    Just weighed my AFi-ii 12 back on the Hy6 body with WLF and its only 2170 grams all told so with the 80mm lens its just around 3kg compared to 2.3 Kg for the S+70mm. So .7 kg more for digital and .15kg less for film than the S2. Of course there are many lenses heavier than the 80 xenotar but the same is true for the Leica. Nothing Leica makes is going to be as heavy as the 60-140mm Schneider zoom for the rollei system - geez 2.5 kg! But its a beauty and one of the sharpest lenses I have ever used. Obviously you don't take that one on long hikes! But there are many many different choices for rollei lenses all with the leaf shutter.

    The 6008AF is heavier than the Hy6 but not by as much. The db20p is a pretty light back. The prob with the 6000 series is that the back and camera need separate batteries so that adds more weight to what you hold. Same for Ixpress backs if you use those.

    The surprise was the Fuji gx 680iii. It's 2.7kg without the digital back or lens. With the lens and digital back + adapter plate its over 5.4kg - Not quite but closer to twice the Rollei AFi kit.

    The ixpress backs 128c, 384c, 96c, 528c, CF-22, CF-39 variants all will fit on any of the rollei 6000 cameras that have removable film gates - 6003, 6008 pro, integral, integral 2, and AF for sure and maybe others. I do not know the sinar backs well enough to say, but think the same is true since the adapter plates work the same way. I have seen Phase p20 and p25 and p45 backs on the 6008AF and also been told that they can be made to work on the integral and integral 2 bodies as well. The price being so low on these 6000 bodies, I wouldn't consider anything but an AF anyhow.

    I tried the contax 645, but was not a fan of the viewfinder and the zeiss lenses while very good render differently than the schneider lenses of the rollei which I greatly prefer.

    I've not tried the pentax 645d but am curious. Seems like a very usable camera with a great sensor.

    I didn't consider the S or S2 for a variety of reasons but it seems like a nice camera.
    Last edited by EH21; 22nd May 2013 at 17:59.
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