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Thread: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    No, the 35 mm will stay 35 mm. It will be less wide than on the C645 because that camera uses the entire image circle of this lens. On the S the 35 mm will be a 28 mm eq. (In 135, so called FF terms)
    Huh?

    The Contax 35mm was designed and made for a 645 film camera. It will give the field of view that you would expect from a 35mm lens on a 645 camera (or even a 6x6 camera).

    If you use it to expose a 30x45mm area, you are not using the full 645 (6x6) area and therefore, rather unsurprisingly, the field of view will not be the same. It will in fact be similar to a 43mm lens on a 645 camera. The point being, do not expect your Contax 35mm to give you the same field of view on a Leica S2, as it does on your Contax 645.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Of course no one expects a Contax 645 35 mm or whatever 645 lens for that matter, to give the same fov on a smaller sensor. The point is that the image circle being wide enough, a 35 will give the same fov as a native S 35.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Considering the Contax 35 (I used it on the C645 with a Sinar 75LV back, so I know a bit how it behaves with a crop digital sensor). It is a good lens... but the Leica S 35 is just sensational and a very useful FL, so you'll probably end up buying it eventually.

    The Distagon 3.5/55 would be my recommendation as a "standard" (and possibly initially the only) lens for someone on a budget (I know it's all relative) who's trying to get into the system gradually and buy more (or native) lenses when money allows.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    So, can anyone advise on the lenses? Which lenses can you recommend? How is the Apo-Makro-Planar 120/4?
    The Apo-Makro-Planar 120/4 is an amazing lens. Superbly sharp at both close up and infinity, the best bokeh ever. Just wonderful. But it is a manual focus lens and, being a macro, it has a long focusing throw. Therefore, great for macro, landscape etc. but you need to be extra careful for portraits, for instance, where the subject may move slightly before you press the shutter button. I've tried a few manual lenses on the S2 via adaptors but my preference here is really to use the very accurate AF and avoid manual lenses, in order to maximise my hit rate. Plus the Leica-S 120 is probably the best lens in the S system, so again, you'll probably end up buying that also, eventually. But the prospect of the Zeiss 120 on the S2 is seriously tempting... (especially at the usual s/h prices...). And for someone who does not have the Leica 120 and does not want to spend Eur5500 on it just yet... it is a no-brainer...
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    Senior Member ddanois's Avatar
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    If there smart they would. But I doubt Phase would give them the rights to it
    Isn't the Phase 645 DF the same Mamiya mount and AF interface from years past? I would think that any IP on that mount or interface would be expired. If so, Leica wouldn't need any permission at all.

    What a game changer it would be to have Hassy, Contax and Phase/Schneider Lenses on the Leica S platform!

    One can only hope while we wait to see what Phase One has in store for a new body.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Yes they are the same mount. The short answer is yes it be awesome but I have no idea what's in place on the legal side in regards to the mount. Most everyone has patents on there mounts. Now Sigma reverse engineers it, how they getaway with that I have no idea. But I'm glad they do, love my Sigma 35 1.4. Lol

    I think Canon for instance licenses Tamron on there mount. Now I'm guessing here but my bet is Leica is licensing the Hassy mount and Contax for that matter. We need someone in the industry to set this straight so we have a better idea how all this works. But there is patents, licensing , partnerships and so on that happen in the industry. Hell we probably don't know who owns who anymore its gotten pretty confusing.

    It certainly helps folks like me that do not want to invest 6k per lens out of the gate to get in. Frankly for me it maybe a year anyway and maybe worth waiting it out for a new updated sensor. But I like the form factor pretty much. Now if you can steal a used S2 for cheap and get in with some Contax, Hassy glass one has to wonder (me) if its worth dumping all the Nikon gear for it. Grand move and I like my Nikons but I'm not gushing over them either. It gets the job done but maybe not serve my artistic needs as I would like. But that's me and I'm always looking for a edge. Baseball bats don't stop me very well. ROTFLMAO
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    The Contax is most likely reversed as that's an obsolete system, who knows if the documentation for the pinouts even exists in the bowels of Kyocera. Legally there is no problem with reversing electrical pinouts, I used to do that all the time with Apple products. They were not going to share squat with us, but we figured it out anyway, and there were far more pins on an Apple CPU card than there are on a lens. There really is nothing to protect when it comes to the mechanical side of a bayonet mount.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by baudolino View Post
    Peter, I know you asked Marc but I am happy to report a very good experience with the HC 210 on the S2. Perhaps is not as "super surgically bitingly micro contrasty fantastic" as my Leica-S 120 (for example) but it is also a superb lens - sharp, flare resistant, nice bokeh, well corrected for chromatic aberration. Reminds me of the Zeiss/Contax lenses in rendering. And focuses as quickly on the S2 as the native lenses (and has the leaf shutter also). Last but not least, you get dedicated profiles for the HC lenses on the S2 in LR4, exactly like for the native lenses.
    Plus I got it used for 1/4 the price of the new Leica-S 180mm (but of course the adapter is not exactly cheap...). I don't use this FL all that often so saving some money by buying a HC lens with a similar FL seemed a good option to me. Here is one of my first shots taken with the HC 210 on the S2.

    Regards, Martin
    Hi Martin, thanks for sharing your thoughts and the nice image. I guess your observations and Marc's post earlier on made me realize some important things about adapting lenses to an S. The leaf shutter option on the S (in combination with native CS or HC lenses) is a very nice option to have and C645 lenses constrain the user to 1/125 flash sync.

    Another thing that I came to realize is that the adapter is the same price as the HC adapter, but gives less options, no CS and less lenses to choose from. Besides that the C645 are from a dead system, meaning it will be difficult to get them replaced/repaired if needed.

    For someone like me, who doesn't already have lenses from another MF system and is considering to go the adapted lenses path, the HC adapter offers more possibilities, though the Hasselblad lenses are more expensive than the C645. Of course there is also the question of which lenses one likes. I suppose some of the Contax Zeiss designs are quite interesting and they draw different than the Hasselblads.

    Regards, Peter

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    Hi Martin, thanks for sharing your thoughts and the nice image. I guess your observations and Marc's post earlier on made me realize some important things about adapting lenses to an S. The leaf shutter option on the S (in combination with native CS or HC lenses) is a very nice option to have and C645 lenses constrain the user to 1/125 flash sync.

    Another thing that I came to realize is that the adapter is the same price as the HC adapter, but gives less options, no CS and less lenses to choose from. Besides that the C645 are from a dead system, meaning it will be difficult to get them replaced/repaired if needed.

    For someone like me, who doesn't already have lenses from another MF system and is considering to go the adapted lenses path, the HC adapter offers more possibilities, though the Hasselblad lenses are more expensive than the C645. Of course there is also the question of which lenses one likes. I suppose some of the Contax Zeiss designs are quite interesting and they draw different than the Hasselblads.

    Regards, Peter
    Yes, I'd say that "artistic rendering" comes into play when selecting adapted lenses. Probably one of the most generally adapted lenses is the Zeiss 110/2F-FE using a dumb adapter because of the way it renders.

    In the Contax 645 lens system the 120/4 Macro was the star, and IMO unsurpassed for bokeh or character until the S 120/2.5. The CZ 80/2 probably has more artistic character than the S70/2.5, if not any other reason than it is slightly faster. The Zeiss 350/4 APO has no equal focal length in the S system, and the Hasselblad HC300/4.5 while good, isn't as good.

    My favorite lenses in the Contax 645 system were the 45, 80 and 140 ... almost entirely for people work. Easy kit to carry, same filter size, nice character for shooting people.

    In the Hasselblad H lens line up the "character king" is the 100/2.2 ... which is why it is the only HC lens I kept for my S2. I use it alone for both focal plane available light @ f/2.2, and leaf shutter sync to 1/750 ... plus mount it on the Hasselblad HTS/1.5 tilt-shift unit for 150mm T/S table top applications, or selective focus portrait work. The Hasselblad HCD 24/4.5 on the HTS/1.5 produces a 36mm FOV with T/S ability.

    The other killer optic in the H line up is the new 50/3.5-II ... perfect fit between the S35 and S70 ... just like the 100/2.2 fits nicely between the S70 and S120.

    All four of my S lenses are the CS versions that sync to 1/1000 ... which is why I am out of budget for some time.

    - Marc
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    Senior Member Ed Hurst's Avatar
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The Zeiss 350/4 APO has no equal focal length in the S system, and the Hasselblad HC300/4.5 while good, isn't as good.

    - Marc
    This might be slightly off-topic, but if you are looking into a ~300mm lens, the Pentax 67 300mm f4 EDIF is absolutely first rate (one of the last lenses made for the system - not to be confused with the much older 300mm f4 non-EDIF). I expect dumb adaptors can be found to allow its usage on the bodies being discussed here and I can honestly state that it would be worth it.

    Ed
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    There are currently 4 adapters manufactured by Leica for using other lenses on the S.

    S-Adapter-H (Hasselblad H with full AF/AE/CS) 16030
    S-Adapter-V (Hasselblad V obviously all manual) 16024
    S-Adapter-P67 (Pentax 67 lenses all manual) 16026
    S-Adapter-M645 (Mamiya 645 lenses all manual) 16025

    Interestingly the Leica 350/4.5 APO-Telyt-S prototype is sitting in a glass case in the factory. Many who remember the S2 launch at Photokina 2009 will remember this lens. Another interesting prototype in the same case is the 100 f/2.
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    Senior Member Ed Hurst's Avatar
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Excellent - that makes it easier Dan :-)

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Leica Camera is pleased to introduce the Leica S-Adapter C which will be available from this June. With this adapter, Contax 645 lenses can be used with the Leica S (Typ 007), Leica S2 and Leica S2-P cameras.
    I practically peed my pants when I saw this, because

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Damned, wish I had kept my 350/4 ... best long lens I ever used.
    Marc's photos made with this lens have a luscious richness of detail and tonality that comes through even in a web-sized jpg. And the 1.4x mutar and extension tubes work too! I need to do a kickstarter.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    ... my bet is Leica is licensing the Hassy mount and Contax for that matter....
    Leica is on the record saying they reverse-engineered the Hasselblad H mount.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Thanks Doug so most likely Contax as well. Just nice data to know. I guess maybe easier and cheaper to put the R&D money in this way than license it. That's a assumption of course.
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    The one problem here is I would want a mix here in glass. Some Hassy, Contax and Leica. I would probably not go Mamiya simple for no AF reasons. Actually the Hassy makes the most sense for the shutters but Contax has some nice look glass that I would like to have. Geez that's 4k just for adapters.
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    BTW great info everyone.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    I hope all this pressures other system manufacturers to do the same! Imagine Phase One come out with a Hasselblad / Contax AF capable adapter!

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Here's hoping you can make the jump, Guy! By keeping your eyes open, you might be able to find a good deal on a used S2 or S2P out there. The good thing is that with continued announcements like these, most if not all of the depreciation has probably been taken out of used market for the S2. So finding your way in with a body and lenses with interesting character from a variety of systems could provide for a look that differentiates you from what others are providing. The upside is that you potentially step away from the huge depreciation hit if you choose to use the camera for a number of years.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Because I have not used my Contax for quite some time, I was about to unload everything. But thinking of selling a mint 120mm, 140mm or 55mm felt just so wrong, for the little money these lenses can fetch today (and what you can get in exchange for that). Then it popped into my head "better check new adapters first" and voila - this is the third thread I opened after having not visited getdpi for some time.

    Thanks so much!

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, I'd say that "artistic rendering" comes into play when selecting adapted lenses. Probably one of the most generally adapted lenses is the Zeiss 110/2F-FE using a dumb adapter because of the way it renders.

    In the Contax 645 lens system the 120/4 Macro was the star, and IMO unsurpassed for bokeh or character until the S 120/2.5. The CZ 80/2 probably has more artistic character than the S70/2.5, if not any other reason than it is slightly faster. The Zeiss 350/4 APO has no equal focal length in the S system, and the Hasselblad HC300/4.5 while good, isn't as good.

    My favorite lenses in the Contax 645 system were the 45, 80 and 140 ... almost entirely for people work. Easy kit to carry, same filter size, nice character for shooting people.

    In the Hasselblad H lens line up the "character king" is the 100/2.2 ... which is why it is the only HC lens I kept for my S2. I use it alone for both focal plane available light @ f/2.2, and leaf shutter sync to 1/750 ... plus mount it on the Hasselblad HTS/1.5 tilt-shift unit for 150mm T/S table top applications, or selective focus portrait work. The Hasselblad HCD 24/4.5 on the HTS/1.5 produces a 36mm FOV with T/S ability.

    The other killer optic in the H line up is the new 50/3.5-II ... perfect fit between the S35 and S70 ... just like the 100/2.2 fits nicely between the S70 and S120.

    All four of my S lenses are the CS versions that sync to 1/1000 ... which is why I am out of budget for some time.

    - Marc
    Many thanks, Marc.

    The reason I got so enthusiastic about this new adapter is the reputation of the Zeiss lenses in combination with their relatively low price. There was a mint Contax 645 body plus 3 lenses on offer at the local ebay for € 2.000. The C645 body would be a nice bonus to have. I'd be happy with the option to shoot 120 film portraits every once in a while. The HC system is more versatile, but in the end for me this is also about money, of course. For € 5.000, that's less than one Leica S lens, I could buy the C645 adapter and three or four Contax lenses and perhaps a body for MF film use.

    I guess I'm just going to keep an eye on the second hand market and if I find a nice Contax set, it'll be a no brainer.
    Right now I have the S2-P with the 70 CS and I must say that I'm actually quite happy with the restriction of having just one lens. In fact, I find the 'normal' FOV incredibly versatile. Everything I photograph seems to fit just fine.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Compliments to Leica management for this out of the box thinking !
    this is how todays management keeps a platform interesting and lively, adds value with minimum effort and attracts customers from other systems to change to this platform.

    I would wish more companies would take this exemplary for their business decisions.

    Very well done Leica !

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    "the connection of the Leica S with the S-Adapter C is an extremely affordable entry-level solution to the Leica S-System and a better quality solution as a digital back, for photographers who own the Contax lenses from the past"



    "The one problem here is I would want a mix here in glass. Some Hassy, Contax and Leica."

    Would it not be possible to mount Hassy lenses as well as Contax 645 lenses on the S2 via the new Leica adapter by piggybacking a relatively inexpensive Hassy to Contax 645 adapter ring like the one made by Kippon on the Contax 645-Leica adapter?

    I also wonder what photographic advantage would you get from mounting a Contax 645 lens on a Leica S2 compared with mounting the same lens on a less expensive Contax 645 system with digital and film back, WLF option etc etc -- apart from the red dot and a safer investment?

    Whatever the answer this is great news for both Leica S and Contax 645 owners as it makes both systems more attractive to those who have either already invested in either of them or plan to do so.
    Last edited by lowep; 2nd June 2013 at 12:52.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by lowep View Post
    I also wonder what photographic advantage would you get from mounting a Contax 645 lens on a Leica S2 compared with mounting the same lens on a less expensive Contax 645 system with digital and film back, WLF option etc etc -- apart from the red dot and a safer investment?
    Once you add a modern day digital back, it aint less expensive anymore.
    Digital backs are still way too expensive for what they do and what they are.

    The S2 is a more attractive body, simple and beautiful, and more compact for travelling.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Karma View Post
    Once you add a modern day digital back, it aint less expensive anymore.
    Yes good point but remember this:

    Photokina 2008: Leica has today unveiled a brand new autofocus DSLR system...

    That said, the same old Leica press release also mentions a few photographic advantages apart from the red dot and safe investment:

    ...an advanced new dual shutter, with both an in-body focal plane shutter for fast lenses, and in-lens leaf shutters for high flash sync speeds. The first camera, the S-2, will feature a 37.5 megapixel CCD sensor in a weatherproof body which is similar in size and handling to conventional 35mm-type DSLRs. The new ‘Maestro’ image processing system provides twice the operating speed of current medium-format backs, significantly reduced power consumption...

    However when it comes to "affordable entry level solutions" a legacy MFDB can still be bought together with a Contax 645 kit for less than a used S2 body and adapter C, right?
    Last edited by lowep; 2nd June 2013 at 12:55.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Yes, but look what can get in real world. Even if the Contax body is ok, you will not get a used DB under 4000.- and this will be either a P20, P21 or an Aptus entry level. Not comparable to the S2 chip.
    Then you will have to tremble if the alignment of both do match together and everything really works how it should.

    With the S2 you get a rock solid camera, nearly foolproof, ready to go.

    Honestly, I would not buy into MF on budget when 5D3 or D800 is around - unless you want to shoot film.

    cheers

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    Here's hoping you can make the jump, Guy! By keeping your eyes open, you might be able to find a good deal on a used S2 or S2P out there. The good thing is that with continued announcements like these, most if not all of the depreciation has probably been taken out of used market for the S2. So finding your way in with a body and lenses with interesting character from a variety of systems could provide for a look that differentiates you from what others are providing. The upside is that you potentially step away from the huge depreciation hit if you choose to use the camera for a number of years.
    I think the S2 as a used camera now comes down towards USD 10k, in Europe below 10k € (even Leicashop Wien has one < 10 K). There is no reason that S2-P should be priced much higher, although the expectations of the seller may be. Most of the depreciation of the body will then have been taken out.

    Used lenses are available now that CS lenses are available and early owners upgrade, normally they should sell at 2/3 of new price, with some bargaining.

    I think it is a good time to get into the system, the adapters of course ease the transition if one has a set of lenses from another system.
    - ErlingMM

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post

    I would wish more companies would take this exemplary for their business decisions.
    Like Hasselblad?
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    More great news from the S2 camp. They must have some seriously good reverse engineers there (and I don't mean an engineer who walks backwards all the time!).

    Leica have obviously figured out that many, if not most, medium format photographers get into a particular system for its lenses...their look, or their speed, or their range, or their shutters, or their reputation, or whatever. So they are hoovering up users of other systems by adapting their lenses.

    I bet that Mamiya 645AF and Rollei 6000/Hy6 lenses will be next. There, I called it!

    Ray

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Karma View Post
    Once you add a modern day digital back, it aint less expensive anymore.
    Digital backs are still way too expensive for what they do and what they are.

    The S2 is a more attractive body, simple and beautiful, and more compact for travelling.
    Having spent time with the Contax and S2 systems, I thought I would share my experiences. Your mileage may vary!

    Actually, I tried the S2 four times, total of over a month and was very impressed with the package. Beautiful IQ, and the 70mm was every bit as satisfying as my 80mm on the Contax.

    I had the Contax 645 since it came out (pre-ordered even from Penn in DC area) and had ALL the lenses. They are great... Use on all backs from Kodak through IQ 180.

    Then I sold everything... Including eight cameras, close to 100 lenses and six different systems (I'm thinking of starting "GA" Gearheads Anonymous!)

    Was considering a lot of things over the last six months, including Hassey, P1, S2 Pentax even etc.

    What I concluded in my deliberations was to go with what was most convenient in my hand, for treking, and carrying a lot of stuff (I actually to Mt Blanc took two contax/P30 and P65 systems), And so now I am back to Contax 645 with P65+ and Contax lenses.

    Why?? BALANCE. Not true for all but I just couldn't get used to the lens on the S2 dominating the ergonomics. With the Contax and a back, though heavier, it is MORE compact than the S2, and balanced, even with the 210mm lens. And Ive trekked with them all (but the 350, that I could never get into. I may just buy a 250 or 350 SA again. Sorry but I found the 350mm a bit soft, and WAY heavy)

    Would I add an S2 with an adapter? In a heartbeat. I actually considered buying the S2 and using the hassey 80mm 2.8 on it. That's how far I tried to go to get balance on the S2. With the small 80mm Contax, the S2 may just be a competitor for the Contax/Phase setup from a balance POV. But heavier lenses? Not sure; the 45mm 2.8 and 140 are way more compact than their Leica equivalents, so these are the ones to have, at least for my puporses.

    I chose the Contax over the S2 largely to get the 60MP and the balance. Would I go for an S3 60MP? now, with the Contax, Hassey, Pentax, Mayia adapters, why not... as long as I get a combo that feels comfrotable to me.

    The Contax AF is slower, but unfortunately the Leica, until it gets spot focus, still suffers from the high frequency search; if you have a tree in back of your subject, that's what it will focus on...same as the !#$#$%% Contax LOL

    But of all the systems I tried, the one that would wean me away (and that's probably the right term :-) ) from the Contax would be the S2. So those of you who have the S Leica are in the enviable position to add a sweet set of lenses, with AF (and it could be faster, as I am sure some AF delay in the Contax is due to its older processor) and I may even rent an S2, once again for my France shoot in September (too late for the Dolomite trip next week.)

    If you are comfortable, or never had the Contax, or found it heavy, you will go S2 rather than COntax.

    Hope these thoughts are useful

    Regards
    Victor
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    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed HUrst View Post
    This might be slightly off-topic, but if you are looking into a ~300mm lens, the Pentax 67 300mm f4 EDIF is absolutely first rate (one of the last lenses made for the system - not to be confused with the much older 300mm f4 non-EDIF). I expect dumb adaptors can be found to allow its usage on the bodies being discussed here and I can honestly state that it would be worth it.

    Ed
    I've seen fantastic shots with the 300/4 EDIF, but as long as we're talking manual focus and dumb adapters, the Mamiya 300/2.8 APO would be my pick for a fast longer APO tele on the S2.

    Ray

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Hope these thoughts are useful

    Regards
    Victor
    Yes, they are. Thank you. Selling all Contax gear (and you had lots of it) and then buying back into it, after trying else is a proof that you know the value of it.

    May I ask what 60MP back you got and why?

    greetings

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    I practically peed my pants when I saw this, because Marc's photos made with this lens have a luscious richness of detail and tonality that comes through even in a web-sized jpg. And the 1.4x mutar and extension tubes work too! I need to do a kickstarter.
    Marc, Doug, any chance we could get a link to these images? I'd very much like to them, thanks.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Thanks Victor.

    I totally agree that the Contax 645 was/is pretty travel friendly. I used to remove the prism and pack it all in a small travel case with the 45, 80 and 140 lenses and just go.

    What I like about the S camera is the weather sealed body and lenses, the fact that it shoots to two cards (although I hope they eventually allow RAW to be shot to both), the incredible life of the battery compared to anything else out there including most 35mm DSLRs, and the dual shutter even when just using the Leica SF58 speed-light outdoors for fill flash @ up to 1/1000 sync speed to eliminate blown backgrounds (leaf shutters aren't just useful with studio strobes).

    Not sure when you last shot with the S, but more recent firmware updates have improved the AF accuracy and to some degree the speed ... at least from my experience shooting a ton of fast paced weddings with it so far.

    All-in-all, this S system is turning out to have been a relatively good decision ... and it'll be interesting to see where the sensor goes next ... would not surprise me if the next S went to 50 or 60 meg ... and maybe, just maybe, Leica will implement a CMOS sensor option after they learn and grow from their M240 experiences and relationship with their sensor maker. In either case, the S lenses are ready, willing and able ... and in my case already paid for ... with cash and a few base-ball bat lumps on the noggin that have since healed, even if my bank account hasn't.

    In general, a S/S2 with a 70mm CS lens or a Hassey HC/100/2.2 will suffice for most flash oriented people work, fleshed out with a few of the nice Contax lenses for focal plane, available light stuff. Nice kit.

    - Marc

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Marc do you still have your Sony DSLR and if so when do you reach for it instead of the S2?

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by lowep View Post
    Marc do you still have your Sony DSLR and if so when do you reach for it instead of the S2?
    Yes, I do still have a A900 and A99.

    In fact, I just shot a wedding on Saturday with the S2 and 3 CS lenses, the A900 and Zeiss 24-70 zoom, and a Leica M Monochromatic with a M50/0.95 and M75/2 AA.

    Of 688 total, and 529 images after 1st culling, there are 201 A900 shots, 172 S2s, and 156 MMs. My goal is to present about 250 final images to the client ... and expect the S2 images to outnumber the A900s when done.

    The S2 and MM are the most used kit I have because I mainly shoot people and candid photography. The S2 and Leaf shutter lenses for anything to do with commercial work involving lighting in studio or out, but also for ambient portraits, groups, environment portraits, and travel/holiday. When the light goes low the MM and Noctilux come out like a light sucking vampire I could not believe the lack of ambient light I was able to shoot in with the MM at this wedding ... the camera still amazes me.

    About the only time I use the Sony stuff now is for quick grab stuff and mostly for weddings ... which I'm basically quitting as of my June 21st wedding gig. I'll then only take select weddings from now on.

    The AF speed and flash system of the Sony is faster for a lot of general applications ... like shooting the wedding party walking down the aisle and dancing at the reception sort of stuff ... I could probably do it with the S2, but why? The Sony is easier and is surer for such work.

    Plus, the A900/99 can act as a back-up for the S2. I don't shoot anything for pay without a back-up, and a back-up to the back-up.

    No doubt, the S2 has taken over the MF area of my stuff, and has taken over a lot of the 35mm DSLR areas also. It's my most applied camera now. I probably could dump all the Sony A lenses except the 24-70 and 16-35 zooms.

    - Marc
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    What would be an absolute best-of-all-worlds system in terms of optical quality in the context of the Leica S2 system flexibility?

    Any suggestions? - No compromises in quality!

    My understanding so far:


    Wides:

    1. Hasselblad 28mm (exceptional wide-angle in my experience, far better than Phase One
    2. Leica 30mm
    3. Contax 35mm

    Medium-wide:

    suggestions?

    Standard:

    Leica 70mm (overall optical excellence)
    Contax 80mm (for character)

    Portrait:

    Leica 120mm Summarit (optical perfection)

    Tele:

    Leica 180mm
    suggestions?

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    What would be an absolute best-of-all-worlds system in terms of optical quality in the context of the Leica S2 system flexibility?

    Any suggestions? - No compromises in quality!

    My understanding so far:


    Wides:

    1. Hasselblad 28mm (exceptional wide-angle in my experience, far better than Phase One
    2. Leica 30mm
    3. Contax 35mm

    Medium-wide:

    suggestions?

    Standard:

    Leica 70mm (overall optical excellence)
    Contax 80mm (for character)

    Portrait:

    Leica 120mm Summarit (optical perfection)

    Tele:

    Leica 180mm
    suggestions?
    Regarding the HCD-28 you wont get a 28mm FOV on the S but you do have leaf shutters as standard and its a very good lense,the S30mm will be wider on the S and is exceptional.the S24mm has no CS version,only FP shutters..

    Rob

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, I do still have a A900 and A99.

    In fact, I just shot a wedding on Saturday with the S2 and 3 CS lenses, the A900 and Zeiss 24-70 zoom, and a Leica M Monochromatic with a M50/0.95 and M75/2 AA.

    Of 688 total, and 529 images after 1st culling, there are 201 A900 shots, 172 S2s, and 156 MMs. My goal is to present about 250 final images to the client ... and expect the S2 images to outnumber the A900s when done.

    The S2 and MM are the most used kit I have because I mainly shoot people and candid photography. The S2 and Leaf shutter lenses for anything to do with commercial work involving lighting in studio or out, but also for ambient portraits, groups, environment portraits, and travel/holiday. When the light goes low the MM and Noctilux come out like a light sucking vampire I could not believe the lack of ambient light I was able to shoot in with the MM at this wedding ... the camera still amazes me.

    About the only time I use the Sony stuff now is for quick grab stuff and mostly for weddings ... which I'm basically quitting as of my June 21st wedding gig. I'll then only take select weddings from now on.

    The AF speed and flash system of the Sony is faster for a lot of general applications ... like shooting the wedding party walking down the aisle and dancing at the reception sort of stuff ... I could probably do it with the S2, but why? The Sony is easier and is surer for such work.

    Plus, the A900/99 can act as a back-up for the S2. I don't shoot anything for pay without a back-up, and a back-up to the back-up.

    No doubt, the S2 has taken over the MF area of my stuff, and has taken over a lot of the 35mm DSLR areas also. It's my most applied camera now. I probably could dump all the Sony A lenses except the 24-70 and 16-35 zooms.

    - Marc
    So A900 "point and shoot", MM for hocus pocus and Leica S "DSLR/MF" for everything else. Thanks for this thought provoking food for thought. Do you never miss the IQ, weight or sluggish performance of MFDB?

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    medium-wide:

    suggestions?
    Contax 3.5/55
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    Contax 3.5/55
    Great compact travel lens, no compromise in image quality, just not very fast (only f3.5). The "unsung hero" of the Contax 645 system. But the new HC50-II is supposed to be fantastic (and has the leaf shutter, of course).

    As for the choice of the Contax 35 mm lens in the above "best of" list - following the brief of "no compromise in image quality", why do you think the Contax lens is better than the Leica S-35? I have fond memories of the Contax 35 lens, shot on the C645 with a digital back (low distortion and vignetting, sharp into the corners when stopped down a bit), but I now use the Leica S-35 on the S2 (and love it...). Presumably the Leica version (being a newer lens, designed for digital) should be better? It would be interesting to compare the two.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Yea dont get me wrong the lenses are very nice but at 6k that puts a big dent in buying for normal budgets thats 24k just for 4 lenses as a good basic kit. Right there would slow down sales. It still interests me but the pricing has put me off for 4 years now.
    Guy,

    I looked at it another way while just recently purchasing a demo 30-90 Vario-Elmar S (which has seriously impressive MTF's). Because I never shoot wide open with the S2 (strictly ƒ8-11), for me and what I do, no real need for 28HCD, 35HC, 50HC, 80HC or 50-100HC. Will use 24 HCD with HTS and H to S adapter. For any wide open work I head for the M9.

    I agree with Marc on the battery life - blows away anything else - in cold too. Excellent rapid charger.

    Richard
    Last edited by rsmphoto; 3rd June 2013 at 10:04.

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Karma View Post
    Yes, they are. Thank you. Selling all Contax gear (and you had lots of it) and then buying back into it, after trying else is a proof that you know the value of it.

    May I ask what 60MP back you got and why?

    greetings
    Having looked at Leaf some years ago, and also recently reviewing pix from 'fat pixel' P25 and even hasselblad 16 and 39 MP, I decided to go back to what I knew; the P65+ I had this since it first came out and used on both Contax and ALPA, and it di great. Little need for LCC without motions on the 35mm SK and 47mm lenses (never tried the wider ones)

    So, just a comfort zone. The leaf Sinar and Hassey backs with fewer MP were 'interesting' for the color saturation,but I nfound the P65+ files really flexible in C1.

    I really couldn't see a big difference between Kodak and Dalsa as some have, and the S2 images from the 70mm were similar, well within what C1 adjustments could do.

    So, really a simple decision; oh, and did I mention I got a great deal on a factory reburbished P65+ cONTAX MOUNT (looked almost new) from Lance at DT. LOL

    Regards
    Victor

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Thanks Victor.

    I totally agree that the Contax 645 was/is pretty travel friendly. I used to remove the prism and pack it all in a small travel case with the 45, 80 and 140 lenses and just go.

    What I like about the S camera is the weather sealed body and lenses, the fact that it shoots to two cards (although I hope they eventually allow RAW to be shot to both), the incredible life of the battery compared to anything else out there including most 35mm DSLRs, and the dual shutter even when just using the Leica SF58 speed-light outdoors for fill flash @ up to 1/1000 sync speed to eliminate blown backgrounds (leaf shutters aren't just useful with studio strobes).

    Not sure when you last shot with the S, but more recent firmware updates have improved the AF accuracy and to some degree the speed ... at least from my experience shooting a ton of fast paced weddings with it so far.

    All-in-all, this S system is turning out to have been a relatively good decision ... and it'll be interesting to see where the sensor goes next ... would not surprise me if the next S went to 50 or 60 meg ... and maybe, just maybe, Leica will implement a CMOS sensor option after they learn and grow from their M240 experiences and relationship with their sensor maker. In either case, the S lenses are ready, willing and able ... and in my case already paid for ... with cash and a few base-ball bat lumps on the noggin that have since healed, even if my bank account hasn't.

    In general, a S/S2 with a 70mm CS lens or a Hassey HC/100/2.2 will suffice for most flash oriented people work, fleshed out with a few of the nice Contax lenses for focal plane, available light stuff. Nice kit.

    - Marc
    Dear Marc

    You comments on the S2 keep it in play, and it was down to an $11,000 used S2 and a P65+ at 16k. So I opted for the Contax and have the ALPA option back again. That and a bunch of (cheap??) lenses from Adorama (BEFORE the adapter announcement ) got me back in the game.

    I will likely get an S2 in the next year or so, esp since I can use so many lenses. I made the "everything goes and I buy back only what I use" decision. Really helps mental health! I was going crazy deciding "should I really sell this?" while I had a whole ROOM full of jun...stuff I mean

    Plus it's good to recalibrate; for me, to drop the gear game and focus on image making. 2 cameras and 6 lenses is where I am (3 each for Contax and M9...yes, I am temporarily passing on the 240)

    Please keep up your sharing of experience with the S2. The AF was better last year than 2 years ago (I had a P loaner) and yet I really think center zone focus is critical for a lot of my image making (I lose 1/2 my shots to AF, so I just gave up and went back to manual, exp with the Contax)

    best regards,

    Victor

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    Contax 3.5/55
    I tend a bit wider and like the 45mm. I found the 55mm a bit softer but better for group shots (I did a calendar once with Aboud's help and we used the 55mm. Was good, but not great and not as flexible as the 45mm)

    At 2.8 the 45mm is the smallest medium wide going AF MF. Also more difference from the 80mm

    regards
    Victor

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    I think the adapter solution that Leica is offering is great for attracting people to the system, particularly with respect to the Contax and Hasselblad H series adapters. I own the V adapter, but I have found myself only using the Hasselblad lenses where I do not have a Leica option. I think Leica has the right idea, because they really don't have anything to fear from the other manufacturer's lenses, at least in most cases -- there are definitely some gems out there for other platforms, as well as lenses for which Leica has no analog, but where Leica has a lens, I doubt most people would pick the non-Leica lens if cost were taken out of the equation...not just for optical reasons, but for the advantage of having a fully integrated, weather sealed AF/auto-aperture lens. People who can afford to will likely migrate towards Leica lenses over time, and even if they don't, they will have sold a few extra bodies and some expensive adapters!

    I have the 35, 70 and 120 lenses at the moment. I originally had just the 35 and 120 and wanted to use the V system adapter to give me access to the 50mm and 80mm focal lengths. In the end, I bought the 70mm because I was not impressed with the 80mm CFE's performance in comparison to the S lenses. Once you start using them, it is hard to go back! I was shocked that the performance of the S 120 was better at f/2.5 than my 110/2 FE at f/5.6 or f/8...the 110/2 had been (and remains) one of my favorite lenses for its look and performance, but the 120 S lens simply obliterates it in terms of performance. Not just resolution across the frame, but in vignetting, microcontrast, macrocontrast, color fidelity, distortion and color aberrations. When you add in the fact that it is autofocus, auto aperture and weather sealed, it is a no-brainer. My 110/2 sticks to the 203FE and film! Admittedly, this is comparing the best S lens against a thirty year old high speed design...it's not a fair fight.
    If I was entering the S system without a large existing lens base, I would save the cost of the adapter and put it towards a balanced S lens lineup. If you can afford the body, you can probably afford 2-3 lenses as well...in my opinion you are missing a lot of the advantage of the S system if you sully it (joking!) with third party lenses...
    In the spirit of putting my money where my mouth is, at the moment I am thinking of selling my 180/4 and 250/4 Hasselblad lenses along with some other underused gear and springing for the 180/3.5. I rarely use these two with the adapter, and I would rather have one S lens than two V lenses and an adapter...

    but if you are listening Leica, PLEASE FILL THE GAP BETWEEN THE 35 AND 70! You have three super wides, a tilt shift and a 11 thousand dollar zoom, but you don't even have a humble 35-40mm equivalent lens. I would gladly sell or trade the 35mm for a nice moderate wide angle. Even better if it is faster, like a 45mm f/1.4, 1.8 or f/2....solve my low light and wide angle problems in one go please!
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
    My lab is here: http://www.customphotolab.is and on facebook
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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    How about an adaptor to use the S lenses with an IQ280? (assuming lens coverage allows) ;-)

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    I think the adapter solution that Leica is offering is great for attracting people to the system, particularly with respect to the Contax and Hasselblad H series adapters. I own the V adapter, but I have found myself only using the Hasselblad lenses where I do not have a Leica option. I think Leica has the right idea, because they really don't have anything to fear from the other manufacturer's lenses, at least in most cases -- there are definitely some gems out there for other platforms, as well as lenses for which Leica has no analog, but where Leica has a lens, I doubt most people would pick the non-Leica lens if cost were taken out of the equation...not just for optical reasons, but for the advantage of having a fully integrated, weather sealed AF/auto-aperture lens. People who can afford to will likely migrate towards Leica lenses over time, and even if they don't, they will have sold a few extra bodies and some expensive adapters!

    I have the 35, 70 and 120 lenses at the moment. I originally had just the 35 and 120 and wanted to use the V system adapter to give me access to the 50mm and 80mm focal lengths. In the end, I bought the 70mm because I was not impressed with the 80mm CFE's performance in comparison to the S lenses. Once you start using them, it is hard to go back! I was shocked that the performance of the S 120 was better at f/2.5 than my 110/2 FE at f/5.6 or f/8...the 110/2 had been (and remains) one of my favorite lenses for its look and performance, but the 120 S lens simply obliterates it in terms of performance. Not just resolution across the frame, but in vignetting, microcontrast, macrocontrast, color fidelity, distortion and color aberrations. When you add in the fact that it is autofocus, auto aperture and weather sealed, it is a no-brainer. My 110/2 sticks to the 203FE and film! Admittedly, this is comparing the best S lens against a thirty year old high speed design...it's not a fair fight.
    If I was entering the S system without a large existing lens base, I would save the cost of the adapter and put it towards a balanced S lens lineup. If you can afford the body, you can probably afford 2-3 lenses as well...in my opinion you are missing a lot of the advantage of the S system if you sully it (joking!) with third party lenses...
    In the spirit of putting my money where my mouth is, at the moment I am thinking of selling my 180/4 and 250/4 Hasselblad lenses along with some other underused gear and springing for the 180/3.5. I rarely use these two with the adapter, and I would rather have one S lens than two V lenses and an adapter...

    but if you are listening Leica, PLEASE FILL THE GAP BETWEEN THE 35 AND 70! You have three super wides, a tilt shift and a 11 thousand dollar zoom, but you don't even have a humble 35-40mm equivalent lens. I would gladly sell or trade the 35mm for a nice moderate wide angle. Even better if it is faster, like a 45mm f/1.4, 1.8 or f/2....solve my low light and wide angle problems in one go please!
    +1 on a S-50mm f/2 or f/1.8 ... it would be a dream come true! I sold my Hasselblad HC50/3.5-II and already miss the focal length.

    - Marc

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Let's all make a petition towards phase one. I would love to be able to use Leica S lenses on a phase body! Even if it means cropping the image. Does anybody know someone from phase that could transmit that to some decision-makers?

    Wouldnt it be great if one could add some selected Leica lenses to their Phase One system? That way one has the best of all worlds: high resolution when needed, access to perfect optics (120mm Leica), access to Alpa for wide-angle situations and FPS ... that would be great! I mean primarily they are a digital back company and right now they have no problem with making backs that are even compatible with other systems. So why not create a leica AF capable adapter. they could sell it for 2k as well!

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    Re: Contax 645 Lenses on Leica S

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Medium-wide:

    suggestions?
    Patience
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