Nikon D3X vs P45+

[tmessenger]

For your amusement here is a link comparing a D3X and a P45+, for those that think the 35mm sensor is going to challenge MF think again.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=30419028&changemode=1

 

[asabet]

The pixel level sharpness of the P45+ in that comparison was really all that was necessary to show. No upscaled camera is going to match that native sharpness.

That said, he made the D3 and D3x NEFs available for download, and here is one response in the LL forums:

Hi,

I have downloaded the Nikon NEFs and looked at them using Raw Developer. I see the same softness on both the D3 and the D3x image. I also see quite a lot of lateral chromatic aberration. The impression I get is that the image quality of this sample of 24-70/2.8 is not really acceptable in this pretty much of axis area. Closer to center the image looks much better.

In short, to me it seems to be a lens thing.

Best regards
Erik

Furthermore, the OP did the Nikons no favors by cropping their images to match the P45+ aspect ratio and upscaling with PS Bicubic, which is not the best method for this range of upsizing.

In short, I have no doubt that the P45+ will have dramatically superior resolution in this test, but he made the difference even more dramatic with his testing/processing methods.

 

[ddk]

The pixel level sharpness of the P45+ in that comparison was really all that was necessary to show. No upscaled camera is going to match that native sharpness.

That said, he made the D3 and D3x NEFs available for download, and here is one response in the LL forums:



Furthermore, the OP did the Nikons no favors by cropping their images to match the P45+ aspect ratio and upscaling with PS Bicubic, which is not the best method for this range of upsizing.

In short, I have no doubt that the P45+ will have dramatically superior resolution in this test, but he made the difference even more dramatic with his testing/processing methods.

Hi Amin,

I've been playing with a Sony 900 for the past couple of weeks and I can tell you that there's still a substantial gap between that camera and even my 22mp Leaf db and that's with using the Zeiss lens but that Sony/Zeiss combo is damn good.

 

[asabet]

Hi David, I have not disputed the substantial gap between 35mm and medium format. In fact, I am always skeptical of comparisons which show 35mm as comparable.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Well the bottom line is they all have there place and MF is really hard to beat and 35mm in any shape or form will not do that but it is good to see they are getting closer but until they finally take that damn AA filter off than it will always be a day late and a dollar short. But for what 35mm brings to the table it is the most versatile of systems and that is good. I'm still avoiding it as long as the MF system get's it done. So far so good but there are days when reaching into the bag for a high ISO noise control would be handy.

 

[ddk]

Hi David, I have not disputed the substantial gap between 35mm and medium format. In fact, I am always skeptical of comparisons which show 35mm as comparable.

I know that you didn't Amin, its a slow Sunday here just adding to the conversation.

 

[ddk]

Well the bottom line is they all have there place and MF is really hard to beat and 35mm in any shape or form will not do that but it is good to see they are getting closer but until they finally take that damn AA filter off than it will always be a day late and a dollar short. But for what 35mm brings to the table it is the most versatile of systems and that is good. I'm still avoiding it as long as the MF system get's it done. So far so good but there are days when reaching into the bag for a high ISO noise control would be handy.

I tell you one thing Guy, the Zeiss lenses have changed the way that I look at 35mm systems now. I know that you don't get MF resolution but I do get that Zeiss feel and look which I love plus the convenience of the small format, specially when shooting in bad weather.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I agree the Zeiss glass on the A900 for example is very very nice in look and feel. Certainly give and take between the systems.

The good thing I notice here on this forum is almost all of us understand these important factors involved and not trying to justify our purchases which frankly drives me nuts. Just kills me on some of these forums that people will go to the wall on how great there canon for example is compared to the MF systems which is laughable on how they justify it all. Sure there good but reality for some is twisted. I stay away from those arguments anymore there is no point. Shoot what works the best for you and really that is what matters the most.

 

[Dale Allyn]

You gents have already said it, but I find these sorts of direct comparisons a bit puzzling. I have a chain saw, a worm-drive Skillsaw, a 12-inch compound miter saw, and a slew of other tools with which to cut stuff, and I never find a need to compare the results. Just need to know I chose the right tool for the job.

I, too, saw the comparison yesterday and wasn't surprised by the conclusion, but I'm one who doesn't subscribe to the idea of equalizing the image sizes, ratios, etc. I know, I know, it's supposed to be done that way; and it's very meaningful in comparisons like Jack's as it pertained to the P25+, P45+ and P65+ backs because one would benefit from knowing where the line should be drawn in choosing a back for a required output size, etc.

Still, I get more from treating each file with the best possible tools and technique to render a "best case" sample. This sample could be at native output size at a given PPI, or one could (subjectively) choose the largest reasonable print size from each sample file. Then simply observe that file "a" looks great up to "size x", etc. It that's big enough or has the look you want then you're done. Too often (for my taste) folks try to use the same raw converters "to level the field" when in fact it often hobbles one of the cameras (not done so in this comparison), or they stretch and pull a smaller file to match the larger and it looks like c**p, etc.

I have Canon gear and like it for certain projects. I love what my P25+ can do (if I'd do my part) and have it for certain projects. But overall what I really love is that this forum doesn't get caught up in the ridiculous bickering that seems to be going on elsewhere as those in one "camp" attempt to justify their perspective on the other "camp". No need for "camps", just take pictures with stuff you like and make friends doing it. (I've enjoyed reading the observations gathered by those shooting the Canon 5D II - great vibe to the thread in contrast to other fora.)

Thanks for the civility here. It's a pleasure to read these boards. (Sorry for the novel. Slow Sunday here too.)

 

[Dale Allyn]

Heehee. While I was blathering and banging my keyboard, Guy, you pretty much said the same thing... in a quarter of the paragraphs.

 

[Amin]

I know that you didn't Amin, its a slow Sunday here just adding to the conversation.

Oops, sorry I got a little defensive there.

Off topic, I've re-registered here at GetDPI, because I was tired of people calling me "asabet" even though I had "-Amin" in my sig . Hope the admins don't mind. I don't plan to use the other username/login anymore.

 

[carstenw]

Heehee. While I was blathering and banging my keyboard, Guy, you pretty much said the same thing... in a quarter of the paragraphs.

And with a quarter of the punctuation! LOL

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Oops, sorry I got a little defensive there.

Off topic, I've re-registered here at GetDPI, because I was tired of people calling me "asabet" even though I had "-Amin" in my sig . Hope the admins don't mind. I don't plan to use the other username/login anymore.

Amin i was wondering about that but maybe I can make you a Senior Member. Let me see what I can fix on your user id for you.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Look at that I got you back to normal with Senior Member and your normal post count. Fixed your join date also

 

[Amin]

Thanks Guy! I was waiting to see if someone would welcome me to the site but this way is much better .