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Thread: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

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    Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Investment Protection Program for Phase One buyers

    Phase One claims that Phase One digital back purchase is protected for 90% of original purchase price for 12 months. New purchases must be made within 6 months of the official new product announcement to qualify.

    Original product purchase price is used to determine the new price and the original invoice will be used. The original product must be purchased new from an authorized Phase One partner. The iXA camera systems are not covered by the Phase One Investment Protection Program.

    Isn't it too good to be true? Why then IQ160 to IQ260 upgrade price was quoted for $14,000 (offer from dealer only) when IQ260 was just announced? Phase One knows how to play the pricing game and didn't offer official upgrade from IQ160 to IQ260, but few dealers only.
    Last edited by subrata1965; 5th June 2013 at 15:23. Reason: Corrected phrase

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Are you saying that you bought an IQ back and that less than 12 months later Phase announced the new model and refused to honor their offer?

    I think if that's so, a few more details might help explain what you're saying. I.e., "I paid $xx,xxx in October, 201x; Phase announced the new model on June, 201y; they quoted $14,000 for an upgrade when the program amount should have been $x,xxx."

    Addendum: did you notice that the offer applies only to backs purchased after April 1, 2012? (See FAQ.)

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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Are you saying that you bought an IQ back and that less than 12 months later Phase announced the new model and refused to honor their offer?

    I think if that's so, a few more details might help explain what you're saying. I.e., "I paid $xx,xxx in October, 201x; Phase announced the new model on June, 201y; they quoted $14,000 for an upgrade when the program amount should have been $x,xxx."

    Addendum: did you notice that the offer applies only to backs purchased after April 1, 2012? (See FAQ.)
    I had purchased my IQ160 in mid April, 2012.

    For IQ260, pre orderring started in early March, 2013.

    The quote for approx. $14K upgrade is individual dealer's program only.

    Phase One didn't publish any official upgrade price for IQ160 to IQ1260, in other words they are not offering it.

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    It sounds as if you should qualify.

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    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Since it is 60MP to 60MP it is technically considered a "Side-Grade" , an upgrade would be to next model like an IQ160 to IQ180/IQ280.
    The Investment Protection states "Upgrade", see here.

    Also as Stephen mentioned it is based off of your Invoice Price, and any discounts received in terms of promos or cash value will reflected in the calculation.

    There was no price increase between the IQ160/260 and IQ180/280, they introduced the IQ260/280 at existing price, and lowered the IQ160/IQ180 price.

    There is an official "Side-Grade" for the following:
    (As of March 8,2013 price correspondence from PhaseOne US, and running until 6/30/2013)

    IQ160 to IQ280 $13,990 CL $15,990 VA
    IQ180 to IQ280 $13,990 CL $15,990 VA

    It is best you contact the reseller you have a relationship with or myself offline to discuss in detail. It can get confusing as some people have misunderstood because they purchased privately or have done it via an upgrade, etc....

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Lance,

    IQ260 is definitely a newer generation MFDB as compared to IQ160. Megapixel is only one part of the equation.

    Also the word "Side-Grade" is more commonly used for switch to a competitor’s product.

    So I personally consider it "upgrade", irrespective of Phase One's marketing propostion.

    As Phase One said "Have you ever hesitated purchasing a product because you are worried that a new one will be introduced soon and make the product you are purchasing obsolete?" ......

    This program enables our clients to utilize the latest technology with peace of mind that their equipment will retain its value and enable them to upgrade their systems at a fraction of the cost."


    Now you already confirmed that price of IQ160 was lowered, so value of my IQ160 went down within less than 12 months due to the introduction of new technology. Phase One doesn't want to recognize that as an upgrade is a different ball game and for a reason. No confusion here.

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Since it is 60MP to 60MP it is technically considered a "Side-Grade" , an upgrade would be to next model like an IQ160 to IQ180/IQ280.
    The Investment Protection states "Upgrade", see here.

    Also as Stephen mentioned it is based off of your Invoice Price, and any discounts received in terms of promos or cash value will reflected in the calculation.

    There was no price increase between the IQ160/260 and IQ180/280, they introduced the IQ260/280 at existing price, and lowered the IQ160/IQ180 price.

    There is an official "Side-Grade" for the following:
    (As of March 8,2013 price correspondence from PhaseOne US, and running until 6/30/2013)

    IQ160 to IQ280 $13,990 CL $15,990 VA
    IQ180 to IQ280 $13,990 CL $15,990 VA

    It is best you contact the reseller you have a relationship with or myself offline to discuss in detail. It can get confusing as some people have misunderstood because they purchased privately or have done it via an upgrade, etc....

    Lance

    Why would someone who bought from another dealer need to contact you offline?


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Quote Originally Posted by subrata1965 View Post
    Investment Protection Program for Phase One buyers

    Phase One claims that Phase One digital back purchase is protected for 90% of original purchase price for 12 months. New purchases must be made within 6 months of the official new product announcement to qualify.

    Original product purchase price is used to determine the new price and the original invoice will be used. The original product must be purchased new from an authorized Phase One partner. The iXA camera systems are not covered by the Phase One Investment Protection Program.

    Isn't it too good to be true? Why then my IQ160 to IQ260 upgrade was quoted for $14,000 (offer from dealer only) when IQ260 was just announced? Phase One knows how to play the pricing game and didn't offer official upgrade from IQ160 to IQ260, but few dealers only.

    There are issues we have with the Investment Protection Program. For many, it is a good program to have in place. However, the program is not as transparent as it should be so that buyers can buy with a clear understanding. We have requested more clarity from Phase One to be accessible for end users.

    In Subrata's case, since his IQ160 purchase was an upgrade from a previous Phase One model, he received credit for his trade in. 90% credit of the amount he paid for his IQ160 applied to a purchase of an IQ260 would have resulted in a higher amount than what he actually upgraded for ($13,990).

    Our position is that it's a program that Phase One initiated and as such, it is good for many, but it does not make sense for everyone and not enough details are clearly published by Phase One.


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar Authorized Reseller

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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Why would someone who bought from another dealer need to contact you offline?


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    I didn't upgrade yet. I wish I could have say why IQ160 to IQ260 costs about $14K, instead of saying "my IQ160 to IQ260 upgrade was quoted for $14,000". I have corrected original post.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Can I just have the damn leftovers. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    So I'm a little confused here. Am I correct in thinking that Steve's comment about upgrades -> IQ160 only have the 90% purchase protection on the delta between the trade and the new IQ160 price paid at the time? That how it reads and doesn't make any sense to me because ultimately anyone who bought an upgraded back would have had an invoice showing new price less allowance for trade in. Surely the new price is the one used for the purchase protection otherwise it's just a worthless offer in my opinion.

    I do think though that the folks at Phase One carefully considered the IQ160 -> IQ260 volume and hence why it hasn't been offered 'officially' but only on a dealer basis.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Quote Originally Posted by subrata1965 View Post
    Lance,

    IQ260 is definitely a newer generation MFDB as compared to IQ160. Megapixel is only one part of the equation.

    .....
    I'm with Subrata on this one. The IQ260 is an upgrade from the IQ160. I believe I heard it right: Better dynamic range on the IQ260 (albeit slight but intimating closer to DR of the IQ180); wireless hoopla; 60 minute long exposures.

    Sounds like an upgrade to me. Dunno about all that fine print stuff on "investment protection program" though. C'mon, really, Subrata? Do you really believe it's an investment protection program? It's really just to keep you here in Dante's Inferno.

    So when are you upgrading to the IQ260? Make sure to also get an Achromatic IQ260 too so you can bring that down when you visit....

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    So I'm a little confused here. Am I correct in thinking that Steve's comment about upgrades -> IQ160 only have the 90% purchase protection on the delta between the trade and the new IQ160 price paid at the time? That how it reads and doesn't make any sense to me because ultimately anyone who bought an upgraded back would have had an invoice showing new price less allowance for trade in. Surely the new price is the one used for the purchase protection otherwise it's just a worthless offer in my opinion.

    I do think though that the folks at Phase One carefully considered the IQ160 -> IQ260 volume and hence why it hasn't been offered 'officially' but only on a dealer basis.

    The missing information from the P1 Investment Program FAQ is that it is basically a program for new purchase only, not for upgraders. This is only hinted at by referring to "new product" and "invoice price". It is not clear what Phase One means by invoice price. It would be very simple to state that the invoice price refers to the price paid for the new product, minus any discounts, promotions or trade-in credits.

    I can understand their implemented restrictions - if one purchases a new product and uses a pre-existing product as trade-in, offering 90% credit of price without trade-in is fiscally unrealistic.

    As it stands, in most (but not all) cases, anyone upgrading who purchased their upgrade product via trade-in likely won't benefit from the program. And certainly this is the majority of cases. But for anyone who is purchasing for the first time, or does not wish to trade in, the program does have some merit.


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar Authorized Reseller

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Steve,

    Basically Phase One should kill this and be completely open and honest about the "Investment Protection" plan. It's nothing more than marketing BS for the vast majority of folks who are loyal Phase One users.

    You trade your back in, you're not in "Investment Protection" period (well, not in any financially worthwhile way at least). I read also Paul Caldwell's coverage of this in his blog and I'm in agreement with him. It hasn't factored in to my calculations since my P40+ which I bought new without any trades.

    Great marketing message with no substance I'm afraid. Kind of like advertising a car "special" with only one vehicle on the lot that applies (oh, and it 'sold' earlier today).
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    I don't know whether Phase could get away with legally avoiding their "upgrade program" by its strained definition of the term, but it sure looks sleazy to make a promise regarding upgrades and then define upgrade as excluding a 160 to 260 change.

    Is it Phase's position that the 260 is not an upgrade over the 160? If so, perhaps they should change their advertising.
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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Steve,

    Basically Phase One should kill this and be completely open and honest about the "Investment Protection" plan. It's nothing more than marketing BS for the vast majority of folks who are loyal Phase One users.

    You trade your back in, you're not in "Investment Protection" period (well, not in any financially worthwhile way at least). I read also Paul Caldwell's coverage of this in his blog and I'm in agreement with him. It hasn't factored in to my calculations since my P40+ which I bought new without any trades.

    Great marketing message with no substance I'm afraid. Kind of like advertising a car "special" with only one vehicle on the lot that applies (oh, and it 'sold' earlier today).

    I agree 100%.


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar Authorized Reseller
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Bottom line for end users no matter how you slice the cheese. We consider a upgrade as getting a new back with our hard cold cash. Anything else is marketing stuff. I agree get rid of the program . Frankly what they should really be designing any upgrades, cross grades or whatever you call it a path to keep customers within there systems by giving great upgrades to people or laterals for backs. My pea brain says this I want a customer to last a lifetime and do whatever is needed to keep that customer. Oh wait I run a photography business and frankly we would kill for lifetime customers. Sorry I'm with the end users seat on this one.

    This also does nothing good for the dealers either as it makes them look bad. And it's not there fault as it is force fed to them to have to answer to a lame *** program.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Oh and I'm selling picket signs starting tommorrow morning for 20k with a upgrade path of only 5 k for embossed lettering. Yea I'm a **** and I know it. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    The missing information from the P1 Investment Program FAQ is that it is basically a program for new purchase only, not for upgraders. This is only hinted at by referring to "new product" and "invoice price". It is not clear what Phase One means by invoice price. It would be very simple to state that the invoice price refers to the price paid for the new product, minus any discounts, promotions or trade-in credits.

    I can understand their implemented restrictions - if one purchases a new product and uses a pre-existing product as trade-in, offering 90% credit of price without trade-in is fiscally unrealistic.

    As it stands, in most (but not all) cases, anyone upgrading who purchased their upgrade product via trade-in likely won't benefit from the program. And certainly this is the majority of cases. But for anyone who is purchasing for the first time, or does not wish to trade in, the program does have some merit.


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve, please advice our friends in Phase One to make the policy more transparent.

    I love & respect Phase One products, but don't enjoy marketing BS from a company like this, specially when I'm having my morning coffee. :-)

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Quote Originally Posted by subrata1965 View Post
    Steve, please advice our friends in Phase One to make the policy more transparent.

    I love & respect Phase One products, but don't enjoy marketing BS from a company like this, specially when I'm having my morning coffee. :-)

    We have and will continue to do so.

    To be fair, the program itself is not a bad thing - for new purchasers who have not previously upgraded. As it stands, Phase One has offered a similar situation to all users in many cases via the upgrade program. Last April a client upgraded their P45+ to an IQ180 with CI. They received $17,200 credit for their P45+ via the trade in program. If they had utilized the 90% Investment Protection Program, they would have received $17,991 credit. Some units will actually produce higher than 90% credit on a trade in, some a bit less.

    I'm sure there are some exceptions, but generally the traditional upgrade program itself has more or less provided this for some time to all Phase One users, regardless of whether they bought new or upgraded previously.

    The problem is in how they word it and market it. I strongly feel if they simply word it clearly, accurately, and transparently that it's worth having (in some cases).



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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Perhaps "sleazy" is too strong a word. But people who make sales pitches should be more careful about what they promise. They may have intended the offer to apply only to future purchases, so that people wouldn't wait for the new models to come out before upgrading, but that isn't clear from the cited webpage.

    Saying that a change from a 160 to a 260 isn't an upgrade sounds like something a politician would say.
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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    Just take a look at any of the more recent Phase One advertising and you will see it's filled to the brim with msrketing BS and they are using some good names in photography to pedel it. All the latest IQ2 stuff is embarrasing IMO and that includes the wonderful Joe Cornish and his dodgy trip to Iceland.

    I feel with so little comptotion they run the risk of disappearing up their own bottom selling us the dream.

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    Re: Phase One's Investment Protection Program

    One thing is conspicuously missing: NO MENTION OF PROTECTION FOR YOUR DF+ cameras. Meaning the new Phase one camera should be finally on the horizon! I wish it would be everything we've been hoping for

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