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Thread: Leaf Valeo users?

  1. #1
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    Leaf Valeo users?

    Just curious if any others are in the same boat...

    I'm a long time Valeo 22 user (2006?). I shoot tethered in a studio, mostly table top food for packaging and advertising. I couldn't possibly be happier with the way the back has delivered over the years. Beautiful files, relatively good capture software (Leaf 11.6). It's produced thousands of images that have gone on to print beautifully as menu's, billboards, food packaging, etc.

    My only disappointment is that I seem to be coming to that place in technology where newer operating systems are not compatible with the back and I suspect that at some point in the future it will be time for an upgrade. Most likely I'd stay with the 22 MP's as it has served me very well.

    And there's the rub...while the entire system is still operating as it should, and I'm completely satisfied with everything that it does and how it does it, the world has moved on to 64 bit, and I'm being left behind in a 32 bit world.

    While a new back may offer some benefits, it's essentially the same sensor as I currently own, so a new back is more of a lateral shift than a vertical one.

    In the short term, as long as I can find Mac's that are still being driven by Snow Leopard for shooting I can remain in my 32 bit world for capture and then transfer to a newer computer for processing. But as I said, the writing is on the wall.

    I'm curious if there are others that are in a similar position and your thoughts on being slightly behind the curve.

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    I think you can use Captureone7 with this back on any new computer.

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    Member carl-b's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Quote Originally Posted by daf View Post
    I think you can use Captureone7 with this back on any new computer.
    From what i have read files from the valeo backs have never been supported in any version of C1.

    While this is for C1 V6.4.5

    Knowledge base for Phase One and Mamiya Leaf users

    It is unlikely Phase suddenly offered support for the Valeo backs.
    Which is a shame as i have recently started using C1 and prefer it over CSx and was considering a Valeo back myself.

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    My understanding is that Capture One is not an option. This comes from direct conversations with Leaf.

    I wish there were some kind of bridge between the Valeo and the newer 64 bit operating systems as the back has been flawless, as I mentioned earlier.

    Compounding this is the fact that my perspective comes from my film background. I worked with my 8X10 and 4X5 for nearly 25 years before they became 'obsolete' in my business. The Leaf has given me ~7 years so far, and while the need to upgrade isn't an immediate one, it certainly is leaning in that direction.

    I suppose I should simply chalk it up to being a 'sign of the times'.

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Sorry for this... i've read somewhere" old leaf back" but maybe it was for old aptus...

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Quote Originally Posted by daf View Post
    Sorry for this... i've read somewhere" old leaf back" but maybe it was for old aptus...
    Me too!


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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    It's given you 7 years of service, but the Valeo 22 was released in 2003 which means it's been 10 years.

    Nothing in digital is as long lasting as your film holders. But in fact, while your film holders/bodies/lenses may have held up for 25 years, my guess is you changed primary emulsions at least twice during that time; the main difference being that you paid for that new emulsion $10-$20 at a time, rather than many $k at one time.

    You'd find there are a LOT of improvements from the Valeo 22 in more modern backs. It's easy to get caught up in the megapixel-angle of marketing, but for many shooters it's one of the least important attributes. The point is you shouldn't ask yourself "how many megapixels do I need" but rather (holistically) what back is going to give me what advantages (of which resolution will only be one)?

    A Credo 40 for instance would provide you better color differentiation, smoother tonal gradations, more dynamic range, less noise, live view for composition/focus without a sliding back or shoot-and-check, focus mask for immediate assessment of focus including comparing amounts of Scheimflug movements, faster frame rate (not usually important in food, but nice all the same), better high ISO, higher native ISO (requiring less light/heat on easy-to-melt subject matter), a built in two-axis level, exposure warning on the back (shows up several seconds before the computer if you're working fast to adjust lighting for a time-critical shot), the ability to shoot without a computer (we have many food shooters who went from only shooting in their own studio to offering options to bring a light or two to a location and shoot a few plates without requiring an entire defacto studio setup at that location in the cases where it's an operational kitchen/bar), compatibility with Capture One (which offers dozens of advantages over Leaf Capture) and compatibility with modern computers and interfaces.

    Specific niche options include an Aptus II 10V which would offer internal-rotation, or a change in mount which would offer you an additional/alternative platform to shoot from.

    Or a P65+ which would give you a larger sensor, and sensor+ mode which you might well find allows you to transform your digital back, which you probably currently consider a tool in your kit that can only be used on a tripod and in a studio, into a system you can handhold, take on location, and shoot other kinds of work with.

    It is somewhat of a shame that Leaf's operating system and interface prevent them from carrying forward support from that generation. As a point of comparison the 1998-released Phase One Lightphase is still 100% supported in Capture One v7 on the latest-and-greatest Mac hardware/software (probably also PC, never bothered to check). That's 15 years and counting. Notably they did end official guaranteed hardware repair for that unit 2 years ago when they started running out of parts for repairs. But if you have one, and it still works (which the vast majority do, given the absence of moving parts and the high quality of construction) you can use it without fear of compatibility. But I think 10+ years of compatibility from that generation of Leaf is to be applauded.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Thanks for your comments Doug.
    It should be noted that I don't disagree with any of the points that you've made...

    It should also be noted that at the end of the day, I'm just an old yankee (not to be construed as a Yankees fan ) who's become accustomed to doing things a certain way as they have proven successful over the years. Essentially, a farmer who's reluctant to give up his 1932 Ford tractor because leaded fuel is no longer available! even understanding that new machinery may offer some improvements.

    My clients are thrilled with the files I provide, my assistants quite comfortable in the software and back operation and so frankly, I see 'better performance' as a little bit of a subjective term. I live in an iso 25 world, shooting with the Speedotons that I purchased in the 70's and 80's, I can focus using live view much easier on my Cinema Display than on an iMac, and probably have underwear that's older than most photographers on the board

    IOW, I'm a hard sell in this area! (Though I'm sure that I'll get there at some point.) We've done business before, you're at the top of the list when the time comes.

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Hey, truth is, without knowing all of your needs/wants/styles it's possible all a newer system would gain you is compatibility. If so you'd be better off buying two used good-condition Macs soon, and keeping them in the closet as a backup, guaranteeing you can run as-is for at least another decade.

    Just don't discount the opposite: that you'll find many areas of your workflow/output significantly improved with a newer back. Color differentiation in particular is an area where it's hard to know without seeing it in person how much it can help get you a better result faster.

    Neither of us will know for sure which of these two applies to you until you give it a try .

    I was 100% happy with Budweiser until I tasted my first "good" beer (Brooklyn Local Lager #2).
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    I was 100% happy with Budweiser until I tasted my first "good" beer (Brooklyn Local Lager #2).
    I'll buy you a Bud if we ever have the chance to meet...you might find that you miss it!

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Quote Originally Posted by FoodShooter View Post
    I'll buy you a Bud if we ever have the chance to meet...you might find that you miss it!
    I still drink it. And Corona. They are great for an afternoon of fishing in the hot sun. I just don't have it anymore when I'm adding a nice glass of beer to a meal or treating myself.

    Plus I'm training for my second marathon, so empty calories and dehydration are "expensive" for me.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Hi There,

    Just came across your post from June.

    I'm using a Hassy with a Leaf Valeo 22 back--running on older LC software on a Mac with OS 10.4.8.

    I have maxed out software updates on my G5 tower...and I think I'm stuck if I want to get updated Mac Pro tower. Not sure if the my back and it's older software will run on the newer Mac OS.

    Have you made any headway??

    Cathy

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Quote Originally Posted by ctingle View Post
    Hi There,

    Just came across your post from June.

    I'm using a Hassy with a Leaf Valeo 22 back--running on older LC software on a Mac with OS 10.4.8.

    I have maxed out software updates on my G5 tower...and I think I'm stuck if I want to get updated Mac Pro tower. Not sure if the my back and it's older software will run on the newer Mac OS.

    Have you made any headway??

    Cathy
    Leaf Capture will run up to 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard) but not newer OS. I have a bunch of Mac's that run 10.6.8 and the LC (Version 11.3.6 which you can download) runs fine. Here's what I've been told but have not confirmed first hand: In order to use a new Mac, I was told by the business rep at the Mac store that I could use Bootcamp on a new machine to partition the HD and load 10.6.8 so that it will effectively run both Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion.

    While I did end up buy a new Mac for editing purposes, I haven't yet had the need to try the above, so I can't confirm that it will work.

    Let me know if I can help-

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    If you have a new Mac running 10.7.x or 10.8.x, for the Valeo you can use the 32-bit version of Leaf Capture 11.5.1

    If the Mac doesn't have a FireWire port (iMac, MacBook Pro etc.) then you'll also need a powered repeater and a FW400-800 cable, both available through your local Mamiya Leaf dealer

    Hope this helps

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    If you have a new Mac running 10.7.x or 10.8.x, for the Valeo you can use the 32-bit version of Leaf Capture 11.5.1

    If the Mac doesn't have a FireWire port (iMac, MacBook Pro etc.) then you'll also need a powered repeater and a FW400-800 cable, both available through your local Mamiya Leaf dealer

    Hope this helps

    Yair
    Thanks very much for that Yair!
    For the record though you should know that this information contradicts what I was led to believe from a few dealers as well as speaking directly with Leaf in NY (or maybe it's NJ?).

    I'm assuming that you are correct and am anxious to try this out on my new iMac running 10.8.

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Quote Originally Posted by FoodShooter View Post
    Thanks very much for that Yair!
    For the record though you should know that this information contradicts what I was led to believe from a few dealers as well as speaking directly with Leaf in NY (or maybe it's NJ?).

    I'm assuming that you are correct and am anxious to try this out on my new iMac running 10.8.
    Our support staff all know this so if a dealer, a rep or a distributor contact us via a support case they should get the correct information. Some dealers have actual experience with various configurations so they should be able to answer from experience, of course...

    Thanks

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Our support staff all know this so if a dealer, a rep or a distributor contact us via a support case they should get the correct information. Some dealers have actual experience with various configurations so they should be able to answer from experience, of course...

    Thanks

    Yair
    Thanks again for that Yair!
    <really happy you popped into this thread!>

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    This is well timed. I am buying a business and equipment that includes a Leaf Valeo 22 back and utilizes a G5. I did find out that they never made a driver so it could be used with a PC.

    Now it appears that the back is not supported in Capture One on new Macs. Glad I didn't run out and buy one right away.

    I am doing mostly studio work with it on a 553 Hassy body.

    I guess it's time to think about upgrading to a newer system and one that is more portable would probably be better in the long run.

    Having recently used a Mamiya 645DF with an 80 back, whew! Wonderful images! If I can figure out how to make it pay off in a year, I might seriously think about one (maybe even a 40 or 60 back). Still a chunk of change, but I think the whole workflow would be much faster and better. i like Capture One and find Leaf Capture to be like using a stone tied on a stick in comparison.

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    According to Yair, the Valeo will run on a new mac with Leaf Capture 11.5.1. Upgrading to a new Mac will be substantially less expensive than purchasing a new back.

    Not having used Capture 1, the leaf software suits me fine.

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Just seems like a natural thing that Capture One should see and tether to a Valeo 22. Kind of amazing that it doesn't.

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericm1461 View Post
    Just seems like a natural thing that Capture One should see and tether to a Valeo 22. Kind of amazing that it doesn't.
    When support for Leaf backs was added to Capture One in 2009 we had to make a clear cut and considering the size of the install base and the R&D effort that was required, we've decided to leave the Valeo out. At the time Leaf Capture was a very valid alternative and it still is! In addition Valeo files are supported by several 3rd party apps like ACR, LR etc.

    BR

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    When support for Leaf backs was added to Capture One in 2009 we had to make a clear cut and considering the size of the install base and the R&D effort that was required, we've decided to leave the Valeo out. At the time Leaf Capture was a very valid alternative and it still is! In addition Valeo files are supported by several 3rd party apps like ACR, LR etc.
    As an additional reference point the Valeo 22 was released in 2003.

    They went back to the Aptus 22 in adding backwards support which was released in 2005. You can always want such efforts to go back further than they do. But in my experience most companies would not have supported any legacy products, and opted only to support current products. So for them to go back to the Aptus 22 was, in my opinion, pretty nice support of their legacy users. No Aptus 22 purchaser would have thought that a half decade later they would be able to use software, which, at the time, was of their major competitor.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Hi Leaf Valeo users:
    I'm having trouble with an older leaf Valeo 22 back which I use on my Hasselblad V system. I was using it in battery mode with the little HP Ipaq handheld computer and the Ipaq battery crapped out. So, I switched to tethered mode with my desktop machine instead. Suddenly it was not possible for the computer to recognize the back (it had worked with both desk top and portable previously. Now all I get is the orange light blipping on briefly and turning off again . It's not cables as I have tried the cables with other devices and they work fine. I've charged the Ipaq fully and no go with it either. Reinstalled software on the Ipaq and the desktop - still no go! Took it to Leaf and they want $3,500 to fix it . It's probably either a broken firewire port or a software problem. Anybody got any ideas about this type of problem? If anybody knows a repair guy who could solder in a new firewire port could you pas on their contact info.? I think this type of repair should be more on the order of a few hundred , not a few thousand . Thoughts from anyone appreciated.

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    Re: Leaf Valeo users?

    Chris. Did Leaf actually state was going to be repaired/ replaced? I might be wrong, but think i read something a few years ago about the same/ similar issue. That turned out to be one of the controller boards i think. So a little more than just an easy fix via a new firewire socket. However if it is just the firewire port, then i should think any competent electrical engineer should be capable of replacing the port.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoodShooter View Post
    Leaf Capture will run up to 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard) but not newer OS. I have a bunch of Mac's that run 10.6.8 and the LC (Version 11.3.6 which you can download) runs fine. Here's what I've been told but have not confirmed first hand: In order to use a new Mac, I was told by the business rep at the Mac store that I could use Bootcamp on a new machine to partition the HD and load 10.6.8 so that it will effectively run both Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion.

    While I did end up buy a new Mac for editing purposes, I haven't yet had the need to try the above, so I can't confirm that it will work.

    Let me know if I can help-
    Hi all,

    I just received a Mercury Universal Camera from a Kickstarter campaign. It came with a Leaf Valeo 22wi back. Hence, I just found "Leaf Valeo users?" on GetDPI. I like the "?" in the name. It seem appropriate since the last post was from early 2016.

    Is anyone still on this forum? Is anyone still using a Leaf Valeo?

    Vis-a-vis the thread about running Leaf Capture 11.5.1 on a modern Mac running the latest OS: Does a Mac Pro late 2013 running OS Sierra 10.12.6 / OS High Sierra 10.13 qualify?

    To be sure, since I just received the camera, I haven't had the time to connect it to the HP iPAQ via Bluetooth, or connect it to LC 11.5.1 running on my Mac Pro, and actually import images.

    That said, I have fired up LC on both OS versions and have screen shots of the LC screen with the the "About This Ma" dialog box in front of it. So I know it works. I just don't know how well.

    To be sure, Apple will stop supporting 32 bit in the near term, as they recently did with iOS.

    But for now, if you have a modern Mac you can run LC 11.5.1 on OSX 10.12.6 or 10.13.

    The issue is the SIP that was instituted with El Capitan 10.11 and carried over into 10.12 and 10.13.

    SIP means System Integrity Protection, which protects the Application directory so it is read-only and rootless. That means old stuff, and stuff from unknown/non-certified developers can't be installed.

    But LC actually can:

    - First, enable your root user on your mac
    - Second, boot into recovery mode (Cmd -R)
    - In the pulldown menu, choose the Command line util - Type in :
    CODE: SELECT ALL
    csrutil disable

    - reboot and login normally - Open a command line
    - Type in:
    CODE: SELECT ALL
    cd /
    sudo chmod +w Applications
    sudo chown root:wheel Applications

    Then install Leaf capture

    You need to restore SIP
    Do the same procedure, but with the command:
    CODE: SELECT ALL
    csrutil enable

    Reboot and fire up LC. Everything should be fine.

    On a side note: I just discovered that there was a DP-67 coiled cord that connects the Valeo to the iPAQ.

    I know I don't need it since the Valeo 22wi will connect via Bluetooth, but just for grins I'd like to buy or make one. Buying will be hard since the cable seems to be non-existant after all this time.

    However, if any of you out there have such a cable, if you could take some macro closeup pics of the RJ45 connector showing the colored leads, I might be able to make up a cable from a iPAQ USB cable.

    Thanks, and my the Valeo be with you.

    Loren

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