The following pdf shows possible combinations:
http://www.alpa.ch/dms/products/cameras/fps/fps_schemen/ALPA_FPS_Schemen_20130923.pdf
So you should be able to use the Zeiss Distagon CFi 3,5/30 or the Zeiss Distagon CFE 4/40.
Chris
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My hang up with the Alpa FPS
- Thread starter markymarkrb
- Start date
http://www.alpa.ch/dms/products/cameras/fps/fps_schemen/ALPA_FPS_Schemen_20130923.pdf
So you should be able to use the Zeiss Distagon CFi 3,5/30 or the Zeiss Distagon CFE 4/40.
Chris
voidshatter
Member
This is just another reason which turned me down from the FPS. 50mm is far from wide enough for me, and the Canon TS-E lens cannot easily provide "true-shift" that moves the digital back instead of the front element.
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
Btw, and I have no vested interest in this, but you might want to give Stefan @ hartblei.de a ping as he did announce a mount for the 17/24 II TS-E lenses that would allow you to rise/fall/shift the body vs the lens in the same manner as the Alpa MAX/XY with shift adapter. Combine that with the FPS and you would have true movements of the sensor vs the lens. Not sure about tilts of the body vs lens but I'm sure Stefan could clarify.
It's on the hartblei.de news page and I think that he announced it here a while ago - although probably in relation to the HCAM. I assume that it'll fit the FPS too but he would be the definitive source.
http://hartblei.de/en/canon-tse-collar.htm
It's on the hartblei.de news page and I think that he announced it here a while ago - although probably in relation to the HCAM. I assume that it'll fit the FPS too but he would be the definitive source.
http://hartblei.de/en/canon-tse-collar.htm
Err, hate to say this guys, but every single one of you has got this all wrong.
The IQ180 sensor is 43.4mm high. If you're not going to crop, then that means the horizontal of the 617 frame is going to be 123mm wide (which by the way means you're going to need to take three shots, not two).
The image circle necessary to cover such a frame is 130mm.
It's a total red herring that HR lenses wider than 50mm can't be shifted on the FPS + Max. It's even more irrelevant of course to the original question for Doug to chime in with his usual sales pitch, but hey, I guess stopping that wasn't one of his new year resolutions.
As far as I'm aware, there isn't a single "digital" tech cam lens with an image circle that large - regardless of focal length.
There's also another fundamental problem. Even if there were such a lens, to create the frame you of course need to shift around 35mm left and right (123mm wide frame, sensor is 53.9mm wide, so (123-53.9)/2).
No ALPA camera will provide that much shift.
FWIW, to the best of my knowledge, the widest lens capable of covering 617 format is the Schneider Super Angulon XL 47mm.***
Kind regards,
Gerald.
/edit
*** Slight clarification - that's the widest lens that will cover 617 format. If you need a lens to cover a 617 aspect ratio on an IQ180 assuming you're shifting with the camera mounted in landscape orientation, then the Super Angulon XL 38mm will do it.
Look at the requirements - a wider than 50mm lens for shooting 617 without cropping on an IQ180.
The IQ180 sensor is 43.4mm high. If you're not going to crop, then that means the horizontal of the 617 frame is going to be 123mm wide (which by the way means you're going to need to take three shots, not two).
The image circle necessary to cover such a frame is 130mm.
It's a total red herring that HR lenses wider than 50mm can't be shifted on the FPS + Max. It's even more irrelevant of course to the original question for Doug to chime in with his usual sales pitch, but hey, I guess stopping that wasn't one of his new year resolutions.
As far as I'm aware, there isn't a single "digital" tech cam lens with an image circle that large - regardless of focal length.
There's also another fundamental problem. Even if there were such a lens, to create the frame you of course need to shift around 35mm left and right (123mm wide frame, sensor is 53.9mm wide, so (123-53.9)/2).
No ALPA camera will provide that much shift.
FWIW, to the best of my knowledge, the widest lens capable of covering 617 format is the Schneider Super Angulon XL 47mm.***
Kind regards,
Gerald.
/edit
*** Slight clarification - that's the widest lens that will cover 617 format. If you need a lens to cover a 617 aspect ratio on an IQ180 assuming you're shifting with the camera mounted in landscape orientation, then the Super Angulon XL 38mm will do it.
So in light of the above, it is perhaps worth revisiting the requirement from the perspective of what's realistically achievable.
The first step is to decide on how wide you want your 617 aspect ratio frame to be.
We should start with the camera options here, because there's no point starting with lens image circles only to discover there's no camera available to take advantage of those image circles.
Max or XY? Max gives you +/-18mm, XY gives +/-25mm.
I'm going to go with the Max for the sake of running these numbers through.
So the width of the frame will be 53.9 + 2x18mm = 90mm (rounding up).
That gives a height of around 32mm. Straight away, you need to recognize that you will be cropping out over 25% of the sensor height of the IQ180.
32mm x 90mm frame requires an image circle of 96mm.
Again, you have to recognize at this point that it is a total red herring to worry about lenses such as the 40mm, 32mm and 23mm Rodenstocks not working at infinity on an FPS/Max combination. Their image circles aren't big enough anyway.
The 50mm comes close - it has an image circle of 90mm.
The wide angle Schneiders have larger image circles, but IIRC they do not have a good reputation for large shifts with the IQ180, so they are presumably out of the equation (regardless of the fact they're not available in SB34 mount).
It looks to me that the closest you can actually get to the original requirement is in fact the 50mm SB34 after all.
The fact that you can't mount a wider (digital, shiftable) lens on an FPS/Max combination does not actually enter into the equation.
The 50mm SB34 on FPS and Max will give you an 85mm by 30mm 617 aspect ratio, cropping out 30% of the height of the IQ180 sensor.
Kind regards,
Gerald.
/edit
Hmm. My bad. My memory has failed me. The 32 and 40 also have 90mm image circles don't they. You can safely ignore this post
The first step is to decide on how wide you want your 617 aspect ratio frame to be.
We should start with the camera options here, because there's no point starting with lens image circles only to discover there's no camera available to take advantage of those image circles.
Max or XY? Max gives you +/-18mm, XY gives +/-25mm.
I'm going to go with the Max for the sake of running these numbers through.
So the width of the frame will be 53.9 + 2x18mm = 90mm (rounding up).
That gives a height of around 32mm. Straight away, you need to recognize that you will be cropping out over 25% of the sensor height of the IQ180.
32mm x 90mm frame requires an image circle of 96mm.
Again, you have to recognize at this point that it is a total red herring to worry about lenses such as the 40mm, 32mm and 23mm Rodenstocks not working at infinity on an FPS/Max combination. Their image circles aren't big enough anyway.
The 50mm comes close - it has an image circle of 90mm.
The wide angle Schneiders have larger image circles, but IIRC they do not have a good reputation for large shifts with the IQ180, so they are presumably out of the equation (regardless of the fact they're not available in SB34 mount).
It looks to me that the closest you can actually get to the original requirement is in fact the 50mm SB34 after all.
The fact that you can't mount a wider (digital, shiftable) lens on an FPS/Max combination does not actually enter into the equation.
The 50mm SB34 on FPS and Max will give you an 85mm by 30mm 617 aspect ratio, cropping out 30% of the height of the IQ180 sensor.
Kind regards,
Gerald.
/edit
Hmm. My bad. My memory has failed me. The 32 and 40 also have 90mm image circles don't they. You can safely ignore this post
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
Of course if you really really want to shoot those 617 panos there's always the Seitz
(Yes, I know that it's a scanning back)
http://www.roundshot.com/xml_1/internet/en/application/d77/d122/f123.cfm
(And Ken, Don & Steve ... No I'm still not buying one .... Yet )
(Yes, I know that it's a scanning back)
http://www.roundshot.com/xml_1/internet/en/application/d77/d122/f123.cfm
(And Ken, Don & Steve ... No I'm still not buying one .... Yet
)
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Hi Frederic -
To answer that question specifically, the widest tech lens you can mount on an Alpa 12 body + FPS is indeed the 50mm Rodenstock HR.
The only possible way you could get the 40 or 32 Rodenstocks to work would be if Alpa were to come up with some kind of "recessed" mount (similar in approach to that used in the large format world - I have a recessed mount for the Schneider 72mm for use on my Walker 5x7) that pushed the lens back closer to the camera.
However, having just looked at how my 32HR mounts on the Max, this is clearly never going to happen, because the back of the lens would then foul on the camera when shifted (there is perhaps just 2 or 3mm of clearance with the lens mounted for infinity on the Max alone).
Not sure about the 40 as it's at the office right now.
But that's just the tech lenses.
As others have pointed out, there are other options available right now, and more coming in the future.
As Graham mentioned, Stefan has an adapter for the Canon 17 and 24 tilt shifts that means you mount the lens to the camera, not the tripod. So there is a solution there, and nothing is going to get you wider than the Canon 17 on the FPS (or any other system for that matter).
I've just checked on the Alpa website to see what's happening with Contax, Hasselblad and Rollei adapters that they announced at Photokina, and it seems these are now expected towards the end of this quarter.
ALPA of Switzerland - Manufacturers of remarkable cameras - Photokina 2014
As you can see in the pictures, these adapters can be mounted to your tripod directly, so you will be able to shift correctly. They're clearly going to open up a whole new world of possibilities since they provide a "wired" connection to the lens which will allow focus to be controlled from the FPS directly, in addition to control of the leaf shutter in the Hasselblad one.
Hasselbald H series lenses I believe go all the way down to 24mm (? can someone confirm), although I doubt very much that you'd be able to shift that one much before hitting the limits of the image circle.
Contax go to 35mm, and Rollei to 30mm.
Kind regards,
Gerald.
Thanks a lot Gerald, I was hoping you'd chime in !
The new Contax/Hasselblad adapters look great, if physically possible some kind of "universal" adapter (with movements) for tech lenses would be really interesting for the FPS.
Though, as you say, the rear element of the Rodies do protrude a lot, and that may be the main constraint.
I've heard of Stefan's Hartblei system Graham mentioned, but I guess I'd prefer to stick to one system rather than dealing with several different bits. And frankly I'd be fine with lenses in the 28-32 range... The Harblei paired with a TS17 is probably overkill for me.
As for Arca, they say their forthcoming leaf shutter system should work with the HR23, but there are some things I'm not super fan of (the FPS is very compact, vs A/S system consisting of several units : shutter + MPU + remote + cables).
The new Contax/Hasselblad adapters look great, if physically possible some kind of "universal" adapter (with movements) for tech lenses would be really interesting for the FPS.
Though, as you say, the rear element of the Rodies do protrude a lot, and that may be the main constraint.
I've heard of Stefan's Hartblei system Graham mentioned, but I guess I'd prefer to stick to one system rather than dealing with several different bits. And frankly I'd be fine with lenses in the 28-32 range... The Harblei paired with a TS17 is probably overkill for me.
As for Arca, they say their forthcoming leaf shutter system should work with the HR23, but there are some things I'm not super fan of (the FPS is very compact, vs A/S system consisting of several units : shutter + MPU + remote + cables).
In regards to the Arca FS,
I agree it's a lot to consider. I had been hoping to see this solution last year, but when it was announced the price point was much greater than I anticipated.
It's not the size/weight I am worried about as the shutter is not that large and the MPU and wifi controllers are pretty small, and I assume that the wifi controller doesn't have to be attached to the camera, only the MPU.
Since it was all announced, back in Sept, no videos or anything showing how the entire thing works together with an rm3di.
Personally I am still a bit concerned on the electronic portion, and the battery Arca picked for both the MPU and WiFi, (appears to be a non standard cellphone type or it may be standard).
What shot me in the foot was the 8K total cost to enable just the shutter on a rm3di (that includes the 3K FS, 1.2 and 1.4 or so for the 2 controllers, and then all the new tubes you need (1) for each lens you want to use @$500.00 each.
This may make more sense for a Universalis type setup.
Paul
I agree it's a lot to consider. I had been hoping to see this solution last year, but when it was announced the price point was much greater than I anticipated.
It's not the size/weight I am worried about as the shutter is not that large and the MPU and wifi controllers are pretty small, and I assume that the wifi controller doesn't have to be attached to the camera, only the MPU.
Since it was all announced, back in Sept, no videos or anything showing how the entire thing works together with an rm3di.
Personally I am still a bit concerned on the electronic portion, and the battery Arca picked for both the MPU and WiFi, (appears to be a non standard cellphone type or it may be standard).
What shot me in the foot was the 8K total cost to enable just the shutter on a rm3di (that includes the 3K FS, 1.2 and 1.4 or so for the 2 controllers, and then all the new tubes you need (1) for each lens you want to use @$500.00 each.
This may make more sense for a Universalis type setup.
Paul
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
Yes, the H lenses do go as wide as 24mm, however, as both the 24mm and the 28mm are HCD lenses with smaller image circles than the standard HC lenses, the amount of possible shift will be compromised on full frame 645 sensors. By how much, I don't know, but perhaps this is a good test item to add to my To Do List for tomorrow.
I've seen results from the Contax 35mm at 10mm shift with a prototype of the new Contax Shift Adapter, and the results were impressive.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration