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Thread: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

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    When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    The Uber camera that was rumored to be in development. My DF is getting old...
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    I am sure a new camera is in the works, either P1 directly or from the Mamiya team. doesn't make sense if they are not doing it.

    This is evident from the obvious patch up work on the DF+, the rumors, references; and recently, when P1 said they would offer investment protection on all of their new backs, but not on the DF+ camera. suggesting they are expecting significant depreciation on the bodies once the new one comes out. Timing wise might be a few months after the refresh of the Leaf backs.

    I would love to see a waist level finder, smaller size, better build, faster AF, and long expo settings to match the capability of the IQ260. And in general, SEXIER looking please!

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Dealers worldwide has been told about the new camera but it is still top secret. "Expect new technology you never expect in medium format camera", I was told.

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    The speed at which MF cameras are developed is so slow that I suspect it will be what ultimately kills the market off. I know too many photogs that got tired of their MF camera body "not having feature X, Y or Z available" that comes standard on a $200 P&S shirt-pocket camera. Many of them have given up waiting, sold out and moved to one of the current higher end DSLR's that have most of those desired features available. No the DSLR file isn't quite as good as the MF file, but it is pretty dang close and the usability is eons ahead of MF.

    There, I said it out loud.
    Jack
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    Senior Member malmac's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Jack

    I was lured to Phase 1 with the promise of a new camera body.

    I don't need a lot of bells and whistles that a point and shoot camera has - I would like high quality auto focus (a inherent narrow depth of field makes that a must).

    A more sophisticated exposure metering process would be an advantage.

    A user interface which is as nice to use as the IQ backs are.

    And able to accommodate the use of older Phase 1 digital backs.

    I don't need a sexy looking body - just a competent well balanced tool.

    Thanks you for reading my list

    Mal

    PS. About those high end, DSLR, I thought we might see a high resolution Canon in the 30+ range by now, but apparently it takes a long time for Canon to bring a new high end DSLR camera to the market place.
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    A new MF camera should not compete with redunant features.
    What will never be redundant and is within the positives of MF is the size of the format. I would not get stuck on 645, but go up to 67 and even if it is "only" a 9 micron chip. Other, 135 format will always be ahead in features. It was never really any different in the film days.

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    I was about to pull out the CC for this little jewel until I had a conversation with someone else and was reminded of the new improved body that might be coming out later this year. While the thought of flying over top a herd of buffalo has merit I'd rather wait a bit more and see what comes out of P1.

    So, until then I'll just sit back and
    Don Libby
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Don,

    I don't know the load capacity on that 'copter, but I think Ken should try it first.

    Steve
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    that thing is sexy. I can think of so many applications for it!

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    I was about to pull out the CC for this little jewel until I had a conversation with someone else and was reminded of the new improved body that might be coming out later this year. While the thought of flying over top a herd of buffalo has merit I'd rather wait a bit more and see what comes out of P1.

    So, until then I'll just sit back and
    For everyone's easy viewing

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Going off topic

    I really really really (you get the point) want one of these before our next trip to Jackson Hole. I have visions of flying over a buffalo or elk or moose herd and skimming along the Snake River near Oxbow Bend. Not entirely certain how the Park Rangers feel about it but then again what they don't know won't cause me to get a ticket.....
    Don Libby
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Don,

    I don't know the load capacity on that 'copter, but I think Ken should try it first.

    Steve
    Sure, hold my beer....I'll try it.

    I think that little yellow box on the B&H listing was made for me and Don, particularly the last part of the paragraph: "Failure to use product responsibly may result in loss, damage, or injury."


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    Member Richard Osbourne's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    I've been told it's likely to be a manual focus studio-type camera (think Contax) but don't quote me on that.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    I am pretty sure if they are working on it (IF - they are) then it MUST be connected to a future CMOS Back and Live View- AK an Electronic Viewfinder. Then they can do a mirrorless body (which already exists in form of the Industrial bodies) preventing mirror slap and making the whole camera actually cheaper and faster.

    So if there is CMOS - there is a new Body.

    Greetings from Germany
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    The camera will come out tomorrow. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow, the camera will come out. I love you, tomorrow.
    Will

    http://www.hakusancreation.com
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    I heard they are working on a "cheaper" CMOS back which will be used in the new camera systems.

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    well, Phase One certainly has plans for it, as well as plans for cmos based MFDB's. In LuLa's interview with Phase's CEO he certainly indicated it was coming, especially the camera.

    I don't think the MF shooters are that envious of all the bells and whistles, heck I don't use them even when I shoot my d800. Still everything on manual, including focus most of the time. now a cmos back, that's what I really would like to see happen.
    wayne
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    Senior Member malmac's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Just a question for those technical folk.

    If they build a new camera which matches in with a new back with a CMOS chip, does that mean the new camera will not work with the old CCD chip backs?

    I am assuming that Phase One will stay with the open system approach and not build a Leicaesque CMOS chipped integrated camera.


    Mal
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    For everyone's easy viewing

    Not as sexy and a bit more expensive but...
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Not as sexy and a bit more expensive but...
    really really nice but does it do video too?


    If P1 is coming with a new body and if it has the ability to be just as computer controlled as the H I would most definitely be interested in upgrading towards it...

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    I don't imagine the new pee-one will be a leaf shutter system and so don't imagine I'll be the least interested.

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    I don't imagine the new pee-one will be a leaf shutter system and so don't imagine I'll be the least interested.
    The current df/df+ supports leaf shutters. They sync up to 1/1600th - faster than any other leaf shutter system.

    I strongly believe the Schneider LS lens lineup will be supported on the new body.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Ill take dumb and reliable. I would like bracketing and exposure comp to be decoupled and AF to be better than glacial too. Oh, and real leaf shutter operation vs focal plane shutter AND leaf shutter combo when shooting in LS mode.

    Ok, ok, I'd also take multi AF points and tighter integration with the back too. Heck, a 2008 DSLR vs. 1998 DSLR would be a big improvement. The ONLY reason for my DF is to hold the glass!

    A new kick butt wide angle TS Schneider lens wouldn't go amiss either. Give us a reason to not dream of a Leica S ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Not as sexy and a bit more expensive but...
    I bet it has more flight time before a recharge!

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    The current df/df+ supports leaf shutters. They sync up to 1/1600th - faster than any other leaf shutter system.

    I strongly believe the Schneider LS lens lineup will be supported on the new body.
    Thanks, Doug.

    Yes, I'm aware of the Schneider LS lenses. I'm not sure how the leaf shutters are implemented with the DF or obviously the new P1 body, but if it's anything like the Leica S system then I'll pass.

    Leica S sequence:-

    1.Shutter released
    2.Mirror goes up
    3.Aperture diaphragm closes down to desired f-stop
    4.Focal plane shutter opens
    5.Camera starts exposure electronically
    6.Central shutter closes
    7.Aperture opens
    8.Focal plane shutter closes
    9.Central shutter opens
    10.Mirror returns

    As some on this forum have found this is a recipe for vibration. I'm not sure of the DF firing sequence, perhaps it's better? It needs to be.

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    DF is pretty much the same sequence. Two shutters trip vs just the leaf shutter alone.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    As a landscape photographer, I am not very demanding. What I need are bigger viewfinder with split screen for MF, excellent AF (DF+ is good enough for me), great battery (DF+ with rechargeable battery is more than enough), good set-up for MUP and live view as good as cheap 35mm DSLRs.
    It's very easy, just copy the Leica S2 and add a few, landscape photographers will be very happy
    Can I ask for SK 24, 35mm and 300mm? T/S with some wide angle lenses would be nice.

    Pramote
    Last edited by Landscapelover; 20th July 2013 at 04:36.

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    DF is pretty much the same sequence. Two shutters trip vs just the leaf shutter alone.
    Is it possible to design a camera that can use both a focal plane shutter and leaf shutter lenses that does NOT follow that sequence? If so, I would have thought that Leica would have done so with the S2.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    AF speed on the DF is okay. But now that we have these really great dilithium crystal batteries, I'd expect that the focusing motors can now jump to warp speed....

    But more importantly, I'd like more AF accuracy--- and by that I mean control, or at least knowing more confidently where the camera has locked focus pre-focus mask check on the IQ MFDB. Okay, so I get that it's hard to have a bazillion focus points ala Canon eos, but I'd settle for just a couple more strategically spaced out, and controlled by both CF and a small button toggle control. Too much to ask? Then how about the option in a CF to light up a small AF cross hair in red in the viewfinder that shows exactly where the camera has locked focus?

    I really don't want a camera like a DSLR or point and shoot that is so jam packed with electronics and features no one really uses. I just want a medium format platform that accomplishes "the basics" really really well.

    Rock-solid, reliable, vibration free (focal/LS options), and great autofocus.
    That's what I want when I invest in the next Phase camera. 2014?

    Yeah, and I'd even take one in Ferrari edition red... Whatever Phase does, just don't slap on ebony wood grips on a camera body and call it "new."

    ken

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    Member MJMoore's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    I am just dreaming of real, usable, selectable focus points.....

    M
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    Senior Member Pemihan's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    I'm thinking of selling my Mamiya AFD III with all my lenses and whatnot and just stay with my Cambo...

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pemihan View Post
    I'm thinking of selling my Mamiya AFD III with all my lenses and whatnot and just stay with my Cambo...
    I think many of us here who shoot tech cams have that same thought. Frequently.

    Pick the tools that suit your goals and preferred shooting experience. Nothing wrong with that.

    I still yearn for that single MF system that lets me abandon my Nikons, Fujis etc.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    AF speed on the DF is okay. But now that we have these really great dilithium crystal batteries, I'd expect that the focusing motors can now jump to warp speed....

    But more importantly, I'd like more AF accuracy--- and by that I mean control, or at least knowing more confidently where the camera has locked focus pre-focus mask check on the IQ MFDB. Okay, so I get that it's hard to have a bazillion focus points ala Canon eos, but I'd settle for just a couple more strategically spaced out, and controlled by both CF and a small button toggle control. Too much to ask? Then how about the option in a CF to light up a small AF cross hair in red in the viewfinder that shows exactly where the camera has locked focus?

    I really don't want a camera like a DSLR or point and shoot that is so jam packed with electronics and features no one really uses. I just want a medium format platform that accomplishes "the basics" really really well.

    Rock-solid, reliable, vibration free (focal/LS options), and great autofocus.
    That's what I want when I invest in the next Phase camera. 2014?

    Yeah, and I'd even take one in Ferrari edition red... Whatever Phase does, just don't slap on ebony wood grips on a camera body and call it "new."

    ken
    Do not get surprised if you get Phase One Body w/ all DSLR features. :-) Rumors are Canon investing heavily in MF technology. We will not know anything before 2014!

    Canon Looking to Medium Format for Growth? « Canon Rumors

    More Medium Format Talk [CR1] « Canon Rumors

    Subrata

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by subrata1965 View Post
    Rumors are Canon investing heavily in MF technology.
    -1
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    a Phase one body with DSRL features would be awesome actually. an accurate and fast auto focus to start.

    actually it makes sense for the current flagship like of the full frame DSLRs to move to medium format, and let the prosumer line such as 800e and 5D be full frame 135mm

    Quote Originally Posted by subrata1965 View Post
    Do not get surprised if you get Phase One Body w/ all DSLR features. :-) Rumors are Canon investing heavily in MF technology. We will not know anything before 2014!

    Canon Looking to Medium Format for Growth? « Canon Rumors

    More Medium Format Talk [CR1] « Canon Rumors

    Subrata

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    I wouldnt expect a New Phase One camera much before Photokina 2014 (Mid-Late Sept.). That would be my guess. Expect full compatibility with most of the Mamiya/SK lenses. Would be nice to see tilt/shift lenses. CMOS should take a bit more to appear in a new back.

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    I guess Pentax can thank Hassy and Phase for being so far behind, they seem to have really taken off.

    I wish Phase/Mamiya would develop some new lenses for the RZ. Just a 35mm and a nice fast 70 or 80. Then I wouldn't need a new body or new features or anything else. It's the only limitation of an RZ and digital back ... then I can sit it out and wait for a new 6x7 digital back that would work on my techno as well!! Seems so obvious that this is what Phase should do.

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    it will come, sooner or later...
    the question is:
    Will the lens mount be the same? (Mamiya)
    Will the back mount stay the same? (Mamiya, or maybe something completely new)


    hogweed

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    They would have to be out of their minds to consider either of those options. It would be commercial suicide to abandon either standard.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    +1 to what Graham said and if the lens mount is maintained, they are stuck with screw-focus unless a new line of lenses were to be introduced with integral motors.
    -bob

  41. #41
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    I am sure a new camera is in the works, either P1 directly or from the Mamiya team. doesn't make sense if they are not doing it.

    This is evident from the obvious patch up work on the DF+, the rumors, references; and recently, when P1 said they would offer investment protection on all of their new backs, but not on the DF+ camera. suggesting they are expecting significant depreciation on the bodies once the new one comes out. Timing wise might be a few months after the refresh of the Leaf backs.

    I would love to see a waist level finder, smaller size, better build, faster AF, and long expo settings to match the capability of the IQ260. And in general, SEXIER looking please!
    Let's not forget broadcast quality video....

  42. #42
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Great post, its sad for anyone in love with DMF leave this systems because of body technology based on 10years models.

    There is a market for new products in the DMF industry, not just more more GIGA GIGA pixeis.

    My wish list for the next 3 years:

    - Digital Monochrome Rolleiflex TwinLens / digital Xpan / Digital Mamiya 7
    - great 400/800 iso files
    - Faster AF performance
    - Big Big viewfinder with optical or digital magnification for critical focus
    - 5000$ entry level system

    Anyone share same list?

  43. #43
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Ugg! Canon and MFD seems like McDonald's getting into the Gourmet food business.

    Personally, I'm wishing the best for Phase One. They may be the last bastion for MFD that preserves the experiential traditions while advancing the cause ... because I feel Hasselblad has taken both eyes off the ball.

    Leica walks alone (as usual), and doesn't produce a back for use on tech cameras ... to mention one glaring difference amongst others.

    The "dual shutter" issue perplexes me ... but I'm not an engineer, so a lot of seeming oversights perplex me. I just do no get why when you select CS Mode (or LS), the focal plane shutter doesn't just open and stay that way until FP Mode is selected? Probably a good reason, but I can't seem to figure out why that would be an issue. Light leaks? Power drain? What? How the heck did Hasselblad do it with the 200 series V cameras with a 500 series CF lens mounted? Or did they?

    - Marc

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    Super Duper
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Most likely light leaks and power. The mirror would not prevent light from striking the image plane. It would also help keep the image plane clean when changing lenses. Usually, you need power to keep a shutter open.

    So where does the Pentax 645D fit into this world view of MFD? It is what a Mamiya DF should be with all the benefits of an S2. All for a really nice price.

  45. #45
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Improving the FP shutter can certainly be done to vibration. Alpa use the same Mamiya shutter in the FPS and it has remarkable low shutter vibration and even seems to be quieter/softer than Copal leaf shutters from the feedback I've seen and some of the vibration tests from folks using it.

    I do think that they could make the FP/leaf shutter combo better though. If there was an option to have the FP shutter lock open when LS lenses are used in leaf shutter mode then that would help. Maybe even if only in mirror up mode conditions - perhaps on demand? Ideally without draining the battery while doing it, although the new Phase One / EJII battery monsters have made power drain and sensitivity almost a thing of the past.

    Regarding light leaks, they have the opportunity to fix the DF/DF+ body which is light porous through the AF assist sensor and also curiously one of the strap mounts.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    ...
    So where does the Pentax 645D fit into this world view of MFD? It is what a Mamiya DF should be with all the benefits of an S2. All for a really nice price.
    The Pentax 645D is a really nice camera. I tried it several times whenever I had the chance to. However there are several things about it that make it less attractive than other MFD systems to me. It's like that:


    -No leaf shutter lenses.
    -Sensor too small.
    -Beauty is in the eye of the beholder: In my eye, the Pentax is one of the most ugly cameras ever built...

    ^^Don't dismiss this as complete stupidity: Most of the creative professionals I've met value the apperance of a camera and only the very most rational tend to buy into a system that does not impress at once (kind of a "showing off factor").

    To me, the Pentax 645D is more of a replacement for 35mm. The camera is increadibly light. AF is super fast and you even get a usable ISO800 file out of it.

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Regarding light leaks, they have the opportunity to fix the DF/DF+ body which is light porous through the AF assist sensor and also curiously one of the strap mounts.
    The DF sounds like a Holga. All you need is a bunch of black gaffer's tape and it should be fairly light tight. How cool is that!

  48. #48
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKißler View Post
    The Pentax 645D is a really nice camera. I tried it several times whenever I had the chance to. However there are several things about it that make it less attractive than other MFD systems to me. It's like that:


    -No leaf shutter lenses.
    -Sensor too small.
    -Beauty is in the eye of the beholder: In my eye, the Pentax is one of the most ugly cameras ever built...

    ^^Don't dismiss this as complete stupidity: Most of the creative professionals I've met value the apperance of a camera and only the very most rational tend to buy into a system that does not impress at once (kind of a "showing off factor").

    To me, the Pentax 645D is more of a replacement for 35mm. The camera is increadibly light. AF is super fast and you even get a usable ISO800 file out of it.
    There are two leaf shutter lenses that work on the 645D--a 75mm and 135mm. And leaf shutters are a preference, not an absolute necessity. The sensor is larger than a Leica S and the same size as many 40MP MFD sensors from Phase, Hasselblad, and Leaf. Compared to a Hasselblad H (or Lunar for that matter) and Mamiya DF, I would not start calling the 645D ugly. I have yet to find anyone that thought my 645D was unimpressive, quite the opposite, and not so dull as a D800. Generally speaking, I have always gotten work by showing my book, not my camera equipment.

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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Marc,

    ...I'm wishing the best for Phase One. They may be the last bastion for MFD that preserves the experiential traditions...
    Please can you describe what do you mean by "experiential traditions"?

    The "dual shutter" issue perplexes me ...
    It astonishes me, given that Canon first provided an electronic first curtain shutter in a DSLR six years ago, eliminating shake caused by the camera.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Ugg! Canon and MFD seems like McDonald's getting into the Gourmet food business.
    Now that's ironic (refer to previous comment). Perhaps gourmet food outlets should try flipping a few burgers?

  50. #50
    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: When is the new Phase One camera coming out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    There are two leaf shutter lenses that work on the 645D--a 75mm and 135mm. And leaf shutters are a preference, not an absolute necessity. The sensor is larger than a Leica S and the same size as many 40MP MFD sensors from Phase, Hasselblad, and Leaf. Compared to a Hasselblad H (or Lunar for that matter) and Mamiya DF, I would not start calling the 645D ugly. I have yet to find anyone that thought my 645D was unimpressive, quite the opposite, and not so dull as a D800. Generally speaking, I have always gotten work by showing my book, not my camera equipment.
    Will, I have the impression that you took my writing personally. Let me point out, I only shared my opinion and did neither criticize you, your work nor your decision to buy that particlular camera. In fact I'm using a camera that is probably worse than yours in every way (and twice as cheap).

    Of course leaf shutter lenses are not a necessity and my Mamiya AFD II restricts me to use lenses without LS. However I wish I had a system with LS lenses as my work would greatly benefit from it. The leaf shutter lenses you mentioned are for the Pentax 67 and therefore manual focus only am I right? I don't mean to tease you, I'm just saying it makes the whole system a lot less attractive considering the great AF performance of the 645D. Seems like one cannot have it all...

    Regarding sensor sizes, I wouldn't ever considering buying a back with a sensor smaller than 48mm*36mm.

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