The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Fun with MF images - ARCHIVED - FOR VIEWING ONLY

Status
Not open for further replies.

gogopix

Subscriber
Dear xpixel
Sorry, I must not have been clear. I LIKE the sharpness of these images. It was Guy who said it was oversharpened,. He said the default from S2 was 'oversharpened'.

I have seen many comments about oversharpening, and I believe this is due to some cameras and backs having inherent sharpness. e.g. with more than 4 pixels per image point, there is no "Bayer Matrix" need for sharpening.

Now, some images may be aesthetically TOO SHARP especially for 'mood' images and partraits.
OVERSHARPENING is a situation where halo, artifacts and artificial edges are seen.

None of that in your S2 images. What I see is really sharp, and 3 dimensional images. You can almost feel like 'walking through' the forest scene.

This will be a never ending debate, yet unilateral declarations of 'oversharpening' are un called for. Criticism that an image is TOO sharp for its subject matter I do understand, and appreciate

regards
Victor

PS Posting a 100% crop may put to bed any oversharpening issues, or it may reinforce them :)

PPS I have seen on screen images almost 'shimmer' they are so sharp. I have noticed this with some P65+ images with the Schneider-Kreutznach 35mm Digitar. Those are down resizing and jpg artifacts. I think you have that in some of the tree branches.

PPPS those images are AMAZING. Images, like knives, are only too sharp if you don't know how to handle them.
 
Last edited:

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Leica S2 - 70 mm

maybe to sharp for you gogopix? You can have also a 100% view of the ship if you want..
I wish you had not posted these examples....I have been looking at my H3DII 39 and technical camera and thinking...these are very very compelling captures.

They may be a bit oversharp for the web...real question is how do they print?
Personally I think they may be just a bit crisp but I know that if I were to sharpen for output at 360 on an Epson this would be very close.

Gorgeous color, dimensionality and clarity.

I would love to take these and work them over....

I downloaded Guy's S2 files and love how they can be manipulated...they do not seem fragile at all.

If it were not for Tashley's bad experiences I would be sorely tempted.:thumbs:

Bob
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
I wish you had not posted these examples....I have been looking at my H3DII 39 and technical camera and thinking...these are very very compelling captures.

They may be a bit oversharp for the web...real question is how do they print?
Personally I think they may be just a bit crisp but I know that if I were to sharpen for output at 360 on an Epson this would be very close.

Gorgeous color, dimensionality and clarity.

I would love to take these and work them over....

I downloaded Guy's S2 files and love how they can be manipulated...they do not seem fragile at all.

If it were not for Tashley's bad experiences I would be sorely tempted.:thumbs:

Bob
Bob, don't let my experience put you off at all, please! I will be back into the S system at some point but for now I just needed something that needed no more testing and that had to be a system I was already well versed in. The sensor issues I had are by all accounts a run of bad luck experienced by no one but me. Everyone has seen the posts I made of them but no one else has so far come up with anything similar so if you like the files, go for it!

Best

Tim
 
xpixel, it is great to see some more S2 photos on here. I really like the last two. In fact, the train tracks reminded me that I had some train photos. All photos taken with S2 and 70mm. Processed in LR 3 Beta 2.



crop from above





crop from above





crop from above (yes, there is some moiré on the left sleeve which I didn't attempt to remove)

 

Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Well-known member
Playing with Sensor + at ISO 3200, snapshot of the grandchildren with the 150D at f4, handheld in natural light. I'm amazed how clean the file is for this ISO.
Bill
 
Thank you Bill. You are getting a lot out of the Sensor+. 3200 looks better than I would have expected. I get the impression your grandchildren are accustom to you pointing a camera their way. They seem very comfortable, natural, and very happy.

Mark
 

David K

Workshop Member
Really nice to see some S2 photos on this thread. Better still when they are good shots... and these are. That crop from the steam locomotive is quite impressive. Looking forward to more shots from more lenses as they become available. Anyone know how sales of the S2 are fairing ? Still a tough market out there but I recently read that the luxury brand autos are selling quite well.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
From what I have heard, it is selling extremely well. Apparently everyone is buying the premium model with the extra warranty and body replacement, and sapphire screen, not the standard cheaper model.
 

gogopix

Subscriber
Now, I don't want to be picky, but
this is a medium format forum. We have images from S2, P30, P65+ and Hassey and H6y film

I propose we adapt

LMF for 'lower MF' such as S2, and heavy crop factor P30 etc
MMF for 'middle MF" for 645, with 1.1 CF and FF
UMF for 'upper MF' for 6x6

I certainly believe this is apples to apples but I really want to know when I am talking "red (dot) delicious" vs "Fuji" :ROTFL:
 

thomas

New member
I think I've seen a good part of the S2 image available online.
They are mostly really impressive in the center - even wide open.
And they are all really disappointing at the egdes - even stopped down.
So… maybe someone could post a corner crop at 100% from a wider shot (a landscape or so… i.e. not a close shot).
But! … I actually do not post anything in this thread. So I'd have full understanding if nobody is going to refer to (really!).
 

gogopix

Subscriber
wow that's a pretty broad indictment.
Are you sure the corner/edges are not just OOF?
In xpixels the edges look fine, but a crop would help

That said, ALL lenses drop off. Esp WO. for a Leica lens to be fuzzy at an in-focus edge at f5.6 would shock me

Does anyway have an example of crn/edge?

regards
Victor
 
Thomas, I have wondered about the S lens performance in the corners myself and have looked through many of my S2 images to get a feel of it. The problem is that I just don't have any photos where the corners are in the same focal plane as the point of focus - at least none that I could find that have anything with a detailed subject matter which could be used to judge corner sharpness. Now that my curiosity is peaked again I may try to find a brick wall to shoot if I can also find the time.

Mark
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Actually I find this image quite disturbing. The focus on the left stump or boat tie down is very sharp but the water tower is sharp in the distance but at the same distance as the boat tie down the right side is completely out of focus. This makes zero sense to me. The yellow should be sharp but the red in the background shot at F8 really should not be holding sharpness at that level given the boat tie down is pretty close. I find this weird myself but maybe I'm nuts. No offense either but these are over sharpened and look unnatural. I shot the S2 and the 70 this system is no better than my Phase sorry. Actually I thought the 180 S2 lens was the better lens. Honestly I don't care either way but this looks funky to me and NOT my experience with the S2 processed very carefully. Marks looks more on the mark to me
 

thomas

New member
Tim (of whom I think he really knows his stuff) posted some informative images.

(Tim... I hope it's okay to post the links? As you made this gallery public I thought it might be okay. If not please let me know... thanks!)

f6.7 - the foreground is maybe not too bad but the midground (do you say so?) - which is actually in the focus plane at the center of the image - is quite soft: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p627107524/h2eb5b8e2#h2eb5b8e2

f8 - looks a bit better. However at this price for a 70mm and the "big" name Leica I would expect something in the ballpark of a Digitar or HR (especially if you take into consideration that Leica designed the lenses for this relatively small sensor from scratch): http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p627107524/h36cc304#h36cc304

f2.8 - now this is really impressive for f2.8. Especially in the center but even at the egdes (as it is literally wide open). But that's also relatively close distance: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p627107524/h3b999232#h3b999232

The S2 RAWs from Jacks and Guys review mostly look worse at the edges. Especially compared to the P40+ (with 645 lenses cropped...).

Still... it's hard to tell from these few images. I don't say the S2/70mm is bad at the edges... but by now I've simply just seen images that do not convince me that a $$$ Leica 70mm is any better than an eBay Contax 2.0/80 for $300,- on a crop 1.1 digiback (actually... the contrary as the look of the Contax is more even stopped down to my eyes).
 
Last edited:

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Actually I find this image quite disturbing. The focus on the left stump or boat tie down is very sharp but the water tower is sharp in the distance but at the same distance as the boat tie down the right side is completely out of focus. This makes zero sense to me. The yellow should be sharp but the red in the background shot at F8 really should not be holding sharpness at that level given the boat tie down is pretty close. I find this weird myself but maybe I'm nuts. No offense either but these are over sharpened and look unnatural. I shot the S2 and the 70 this system is no better than my Phase sorry. Actually I thought the 180 S2 lens was the better lens. Honestly I don't care either way but this looks funky to me and NOT my experience with the S2 processed very carefully. Marks looks more on the mark to me

I didn't know that the S2 had swings
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I didn't know that the S2 had swings
Exactly --- or more precisely swings AND tilts! That image looks like the lens plane is not parallel to the sensor, with lens angled slightly up and right relatively. Or it could possibly be partially what Thomas was referring to, soft corner performance exacerbating the effect. According to the EXIF the shot was taken at f8, so I am surprised by this behavior. Methinks some gear testing may be in order for xpixel...

PS: Actually, the non-planar OOF rendering may be what gives the illusion of depth that Victor is seeing...

Here is the relative POF as I see it, axis in yellow:
 

thomas

New member
That image looks like the lens plane is not parallel to the sensor, with lens angled slightly up and right relatively.
yes, possibly. It looks like my P45 that first had a tilted, swinged and rotated sensor... Back then the service replaced the entire sensor mounting.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top