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Fun with MF images - ARCHIVED - FOR VIEWING ONLY

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Don Libby

Well-known member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Not for Don's benefit per say . BUT you learn nothing if you don't experiment and frankly one of the best ways to learn to be a shooter.

Don not liking it either but let me add i like when I see folks post stuff that may not even be there best , we all learn from it.
Really didn't mean to ignore this.

Guy is totally correct; we learn nothing at all if we just process images the "normal way" and never experiment. I'll admit that I first go after images that show promise; those where I did almost if not everything right in capturing it. However no matter how many post processing programs you have and how much time you spend on an image the bottom line is you need a good mage to begin with. I've spent large amounts of time on images only to trash them before I ven print them as I know they weren't suitable.

That said I love to experiment with images pushing them to new levels to see what will work and what won't. Sometimes I think of a different way to process the sky and will sit for hours doing just that. It's difficult training the brain to concentrate on just one portion of an image while ignoring what happening elsewhere but thanks to layer masks I've been able to do just that. It also helps to have a brain that is as unconventional as mine.

I've always said that I "listen" to my images and follow what they say. Okay sounds weird and maybe you're now thinking you don't want to be in the same room with me by yourself. What I mean is your image will tell you when you're at the point where you need do nothing else; the foreground is perfect, the background is perfect. In other words the image is at a place where it makes you proud to have captured it. It's no longer a "snapshot".

So despite what we heard when we were younger it's good to experiment! :D

Don
 

eleanorbrown

New member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

This back no doubt has a "different look" and it is going to take more careful study of the files to pinpoint just "what" is different. I've only had it for a day and a half. What I can say now is that when the shots are good (I haven't done any "serious" shooting/composing, etc) they are very very good. They have 3 dimensionality and texture and micro-contrast that is in your face attention getting and makes you feel like you "are there". The color is different to my eye, especially in how they handle the red spectrum---sometimes I like this, sometimes I think the red tones are a bit "off"...but this is the profile I think. The shot of the purple onions looks fabulous in print and that's at iso 800!

I'm far from being a fashion shooter but have attached a file shot at the market of fabrics. In print at the equivalent of 22X30 at 300 dpi, this has what people have called a 'liquid smoothness" and very fine texture to the fabric that looks really wonderful. Eleanor




I would buy those onions!
What are your first impressions of the P65+?.......... waiting for mine.
 
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Paratom

Well-known member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Yeah, I don't get the whole sharpen-as-much-as-possible strategy. Even without reaching over-sharpening levels, I rarely prefer the sharpened results to the unsharpened results. I think I just like the relaxed look of a nicely focused, unsharpened image, even if the detail is slightly soft at 100%.

Having said that, two of the above three were not sharp, as spotted by Jack. I really need to not forget my tripod when using an ISO 50 camera :)

Here is the door of the lighthouse, and a crop of the lock. This is one of the things I was looking for in MF. In this case, the top of the metal plate is over-exposed, so please ignore that :)

View attachment 19346 View attachment 19347
Carsten,
I know that when looking on 100% crops on screen that ISO 50 is the best, but up to 200 ISO is really usable. I rather have a little noise vs "image shake" or too thin DOF.
I think limiting oneself to base ISO might make one miss certain images / scenes.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

This back no doubt has a "different look" and it is going to take more careful study of the files to pinpoint just "what" is different. I've only had it for a day and a half. What I can say now is that when the shots are good (I haven't done any "serious" shooting/composing, etc) they are very very good. They have 3 dimensionality and texture and micro-contrast that is in your face attention getting and makes you feel like you "are there". The color is different to my eye, especially in how they handle the red spectrum---sometimes I like this, sometimes I think the red tones are a bit "off"...but this is the profile I think. The shot of the purple onions looks fabulous in print and that's at iso 800!

I'm far from being a fashion shooter but have attached a file shot at the market of fabrics. In print at the equivalent of 22X30 at 300 dpi, this has what people have called a 'liquid smoothness" and very fine texture to the fabric that looks really wonderful. Eleanor
Eleanor P65+ users need to view this thread , even though it is the P40+ they are identical when it comes to color and the profile difference between Kodak and Dalsa. They are different and have a different look, now I would not call it bad or good but just different and something you need to wrap your arms around the last images with the CC card are a real good tell tale sign of how they render differently. Seems the Kodak likes blues and reds and Dalsa like greens and yellows.

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8090

I wish I had more time with the P40+ do to more testing in this area but we left for the workshop with it and I never got a chance to shoot it again. It was being used by the participants the whole time, even the P65 that was there. I had to shoot my lowly P30+ the whole time.:D Like that really bothered me
 

carstenw

Active member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Tom, don't worry, I have already used both ISO 100 and 200. The 100 shots are perfectly fine, but I haven't really looked closely at the 200 shots yet. The ISO 400 setting I have not tried yet, but don't expect much from it.
 

eleanorbrown

New member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Thanks Guy, this is very informative and helpful! eleanor


Eleanor P65+ users need to view this thread , even though it is the P40+ they are identical when it comes to color and the profile difference between Kodak and Dalsa. They are different and have a different look, now I would not call it bad or good but just different and something you need to wrap your arms around the last images with the CC card are a real good tell tale sign of how they render differently. Seems the Kodak likes blues and reds and Dalsa like greens and yellows.

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8090

I wish I had more time with the P40+ do to more testing in this area but we left for the workshop with it and I never got a chance to shoot it again. It was being used by the participants the whole time, even the P65 that was there. I had to shoot my lowly P30+ the whole time.:D Like that really bothered me
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Your welcome as you can see the difference between the Kodak and Dalsa it is quite interesting. Hopefully I can continue that test at some point. Myself I would really like having the P40+ at some point. It fits all of my work very nicely
 

Dale Allyn

New member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Just sitting on the sidelines of the P65+/P40+ stuff, it sort of looks to my eye (on screen) that the Kodak backs bring a bit of Kodachrome look, while the new Dalsa-equipped backs have a look sort of analogous to Ektachrome transparency film. Not saying a direct correlation, but sort of a similar (though less drastic) a shift.

I wonder if Phase is finished with the current profile or if there will be updates coming.

The files sure are impressive with regard to detail, tonality, etc.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Dale that is my impression as well the Kodak sensors look like Kodachrome. Now I have said this with the DMR, M8 and all of the Phase backs that use the Kodak sensor. One reason I went Phase was the Kodak sensors , I always liked the look from them. Some folks prefer Dalsa but it does have a different look to me. Some say it is urban myth but after playing with these backs nothing mythical about it they are a different look. Now is it correct or is it not is the question. Not so sure it is not correct but just the way it does render. Heck the Kodak sensors could be not correct for all we know. But Jack and I have been talking about this since we first tried the P65 pre production unit months ago. To me it looks like a cross between Velvia and Extachrome. It likes green and yellow. Now my question is can the profile be changed to maybe look more like the Kodak sensors. My feeling is sure why not and maybe we can do in C1 actually by picking a different profile or something Phase can do is putting a added profile in. I have no answers here but something since i ran that test have been wondering about. Maybe a new thread should be started on this but I have not heard anywhere on any forum about this except here. Maybe I can take some of those files and try some other profiles in C1
 

Dale Allyn

New member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Guy, I assume adjustments can be made to create the look one desires in either back. And custom profiles would be great too. Like you, I've been one to prefer Kodachrome to Ektachrome (used to shoot a lot of K25 and K64). It would be very cool if Phase would offer a couple of different profiles so that one could choose their desired starting point. Actually, three profiles for daylight color would be killer I think. :)
 

Rolo

Member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

All this talk of the new CFV prompted me to take my CFV - 16 for a walk yesterday. :)

A real joy to use and not too heavy at all (with the wlf).
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

I am completely contrarian about this. I think monopods are almost useless for me. I feel like they don't offer much stabilization at all, since you are only limiting movement in one axis. And if you are going to drag along a long stabilization device, you might as well add the few more ounces and carry a real tripod...even the flimsiest tripod will offer you much better stabilization than a top of the range carbon fiber monopod. I understand using a monopod if you are shooting a super telephoto lens and need rapid movement, such as in sports photography -- there they are largely supporting the heavy weight of the lens, as well as taking up less space since there are often many photographers all bunched up next to each other.

But perhaps I am just bitter. Several years ago I bought a high end carbon fiber monopod after I had read all about the amazing advantages, and I found that it did absolutely nothing for me. And yes, I read about how to use your body to limit the movement in other axes, it just did not work for me.
 

thomas

New member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

I am completely contrarian about this. I think monopods are almost useless for me. I feel like they don't offer much stabilization at all, since you are only limiting movement in one axis.
It depends very much on the swivel toe. Forget (!) about spicky toes.
The swivel toe stabilizer of the Monostat RS-16 professinal is great!

Too, you almost always will find something to lean the monopod against or fix it otherwise. But even hand holding, as already mentioned, it saves 2-3 stops (reproducible). It's not a substitution of a tripod for critical work - of course not. But it's a great and easy to carry addition to the gear.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Goofing off and decided to work this image up from our last trip to Monument Valley - not too sure if it's done yet but wanted to share two versions. Taken with Cambo WRS-1000, P45+ and 72mm lens two-image merged to 10448 by 3671 pixels.

Don
I think the artifacts in the sky of sharpening/clarity around each of the formations is a bit too much here. You might tone it down or, conversely, paint back in the areas where it is especially noticeable.

Doug
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3


Phase One P65+ on Phase One 645 AF using Mamiya Auto Bellows N with Phase One 80mm lens mounted in reverse, manually stopped down to f/9.5. Processing in C1; Depth-Of-Field Stacking in Helicon Focus.



Phase One P30+ on a Sinar X View Camera with 20" of extension and a Schneider Componon-M 50mm enlarging lens at f/4.5 - 200 images processed in C1 and stacked in Helicon Focus.


Phase One P65+ on Phase One 645 AF with 35mm at f/3.5, ISO 1600 in Sensor+ mode. Processing in C1 only.

Two recent sets of images. The first two from an experiment in ultra-macro photography (thanks go to Eric Hiss who lent me two rare lenses) and the third is of my nephew on a recent family reunion at which my sister and sister-in-law both announced they were pregnant.

More of the bugs. More of the kid.

Doug
 
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