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Fun with MF images - ARCHIVED - FOR VIEWING ONLY

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eleanorbrown

New member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Leave it be David. We live in different worlds.
1. you didn't read my post carefully.
2. you're trying to pick a fight
3. You're trying to turn what I said into a "black and white situation", which is isn't, and
4. You're the last person I'm going to get into a debate with. Enough said. Leave it be.
5. I've been to the top of a 14,000+ foot peak today with some wonderful images and I'm going to enjoy a glass of Merlot and process my P65 shots.

Eleanor



Eleanor, I'm trying to figure out who you have a beef with. Is it skinny women, the fashion and pin up world or men in general? Do you have a preference for images of chunky women over boney ones? What do you think of images where men are objectified?

Let me remind you that whatever opinions you have regarding objectified females in fashion photography, they are done for the consumption of women who buy those fashion magazines, and not men, including those of idealized and objectified young males! Fashion world and fashion photography isn't a good boys club the way you think of it, the industry is dominated by plenty of high powered women at every level including the very top.

Regarding Bob's images, fact is that the girls were happy to take his money and pose for him I don't really get why you're having a problem with it.

Funny thing is that the last time I had this conversation I was criticized for for using my subjects as objects rather than objectifying them as people, I'm still trying to figure that one out...

FYI, women photographers that I've had the pleasure of working with and learning from don't seem to have a chip on their shoulders and apparently neither does this lady photographer;

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13034&d=1236057234

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php?p=80519&postcount=3

To conclude, the real world thinking women in my life don't appreciate being called common or stereo typical just because they're cool with female sexuality!
 
D

ddk

Guest
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Leave it be David. We live in different worlds.
1. you didn't read my post carefully.
2. you're trying to pick a fight
3. You're trying to turn what I said into a "black and white situation", which is isn't, and
4. You're the last person I'm going to get into a debate with. Enough said. Leave it be.
5. I've been to the top of a 14,000+ foot peak today with some wonderful images and I'm going to enjoy a glass of Merlot and process my P65 shots.

Eleanor
We might live in different worlds Eleanor but I'm not looking for a fight. Enjoy your Merlot!
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Just for informational news on what agents pick. Let me explain this show , first it is a model and talent convention for aspiring models and actors to be discovered by the top agents, cast directors and managers from all over the world. This is what International Model and Talent is and that is to put all the schools from around the world in front of over 500 agents from all over the place. My wife Nancy produces this show and she has been doing it for over 26 years. She is the queen in this business. I shoot the shows and produce all the multi media for them. Now these two images of these two models I did not shoot but they both represent the male model of the year and the female Model of the year. Both these young models will walk away with huge contracts from agents like Elite and such and make a extremely good life. Now these are winners judged by all the agents and cast directors. This is what they are looking for this time in NY. Not much has changed except this time it is not the katie Moss look of skinnier than a slim jim look but still these are young fresh faces with a slim look. This is the fashion business like it or not but this is what hits the magazines and sells millions of dollars worth of products. Folks this is a multi billion dollar industry with millions of jobs attached to it and this is ultimately these young faces will sell all that product. Take it for what it is worth but it will never change . These are these kids winning slides
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Please consider this a work in progress as I shot this afternoon around sunset, loaded into the computer this evening and my rear is dragging so this is where I stopped. Cambo WRS-1000, P45+ 120mm lens I think it was f/11 @125 but right now I can't find my notes.

Don
 

carstenw

Active member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Eleanor, I'm trying to figure out who you have a beef with. Is it skinny women, the fashion and pin up world or men in general? Do you have a preference for images of chunky women over boney ones? What do you think of images where men are objectified?
You are jumping from black to white here, and skipping all the tones in between. There is a whole world of healthy, beautiful people in between stick and chunk. Someone like Monica Belucci would be a standard example. She is not thin, but still gorgeous. I don't get the stick people either.

There is no problem with men in general. There is just a problem with men whose tastes run to women so skinny that they are unhealthy or frail. Unfortunately there are many men like this, but it is far from dominant, just very visible, and unfortunately has driven the primary North American fashion photography segment for a couple of decades now. In Europe it is less dominant, but still prevalent. At some point, fashion will move on, and stick people will be seen as unhealthy again.
 

Graham Mitchell

New member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

FWIW, I was not offended by Bob's image. It didn't work for me, but that's a separate issue and I don't expect to like every image posted here.

What does bother me is the attempts by some to impose their own view of morality on the board.

I was banned from a Flickr group (without warning) for posting this image:



The reason given was that is was 'nudity'. When I pointed out that this did not meet with the dictionary definition of the word, and there was much less visible than in a bikini shot (which is allowed on the group), the woman changed her argument to "I wouldn't want my daughter to dress like that". I responded with asking her whether she would ban all photos and films depicting any immoral or illegal behaviour which might influence her daughter (which would inculde nearly every film released today) and she never responded. She had no argument and she knew it. (She didn't have the integrity to unban me either).

Fashion is absolutely not all bad but there is enough "stuff' out there that turns women into "objects" in the name of "art", uh...money.....so much so that it gets really old really fast.
Eleanour, I have to disagree on all counts. Whether images of women 'gets old' is a subjective matter. There are millions of photos of cats, dogs, leaves, cars, landscapes, etc. Everything has been done a million times - why focus your objection on images of women? And what does Bob's image have to do with fashion photography? Actually there is very little fashion photography posted on this board.

But since you brought up fashion photography, women aren't being 'objectified'. Women want to spend money on fashion and beauty. Women respond to advertising. It is the marketer's job to determine what kinds of marketing works best on women, and women respond best to photos of beautiful and slim women. (An aspirational response). If women responded better to photos of less attractive and heavier-built women, then the profit-hungry fashion corporations would surely take advantage of that fact. So in the end, the reason fashion photography features so many 'stick figured' women (as you put it) is because that is what works on women - men don't even figure into this equation.
 
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Graham Mitchell

New member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Fashion world and fashion photography isn't a good boys club the way you think of it, the industry is dominated by plenty of high powered women at every level including the very top.
Totally agree. Most big fashion mags have female editors, for example.
 

anGy

Member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

This shot is awesome Graham. The mood, the place, the lady, the light creating this atmosphere. Wonderfull.

"The great artists of the world are never puritans, and seldom even ordinarily respectable" Henry Louis Mencken
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Although not a landscape, I hope that this does not cause too much controversy. It was shot for her portfolio


-bob
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

--snip--
5. I've been to the top of a 14,000+ foot peak today with some wonderful images and I'm going to enjoy a glass of Merlot and process my P65 shots.

Eleanor
Ohh, please show us some.
-bob
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

FWIW, I was not offended by Bob's image. It didn't work for me, but that's a separate issue and I don't expect to like every image posted here.

What does bother me is the attempts by some to impose their own view of morality on the board.

I was banned from a Flickr group (without warning) for posting this image:



The reason given was that is was 'nudity'. When I pointed out that this did not meet with the dictionary definition of the word, and there was much less visible than in a bikini shot (which is allowed on the group), the woman changed her argument to "I wouldn't want my daughter to dress like that". I responded with asking her whether she would ban all photos and films depicting any immoral or illegal behaviour which might influence her daughter (which would inculde nearly every film released today) and she never responded. She had no argument and she knew it. (She didn't have the integrity to unban me either).



Eleanour, I have to disagree on all counts. Whether images of women 'gets old' is a subjective matter. There are millions of photos of cats, dogs, leaves, cars, landscapes, etc. Everything has been done a million times - why focus your objection on images of women? And what does Bob's image have to do with fashion photography? Actually there is very little fashion photography posted on this board.

But since you brought up fashion photography, women aren't being 'objectified'. Women want to spend money on fashion and beauty. Women respond to advertising. It is the marketer's job to determine what kinds of marketing works best on women, and women respond best to photos of beautiful and slim women. (An aspirational response). If women responded better to photos of less attractive and heavier-built women, then the profit-hungry fashion corporations would surely take advantage of that fact. So in the end, the reason fashion photography features so many 'stick figured' women (as you put it) is because that is what works on women - men don't even figure into this equation.

Actually that Katie Moss look has been out of Vogue for awhile now and obviously at the time was a big issue because it seemed so unhealthy which i don't disagree with but that opinion and many others may actually come from being a parent as well. I would not want to see my daughter that thin, so here i do agree it was a very controversial look. But like anything else in fashion that look has changed maybe 6 times since she first appeared in the rags. But even so that is a moral judgement from within ourselves on how she looked. She still did what her agent thought she would do sell multi millions of dollars worth of product. Fashion is advertising pure and simple and there is no getting around it be it we like the look or not. Fashion is a very fluid industry and does not always represent the girl or boy next door look either. This image is not even close to that Katie Moss look.
 

gogopix

Subscriber
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

.......
But since you brought up fashion photography, women aren't being 'objectified'. Women want to spend money on fashion and beauty. Women respond to advertising. It is the marketer's job to determine what kinds of marketing works best on women, and women respond best to photos of beautiful and slim women. (An aspirational response). If women responded better to photos of less attractive and heavier-built women, then the profit-hungry fashion corporations would surely take advantage of that fact. So in the end, the reason fashion photography features so many 'stick figured' women (as you put it) is because that is what works on women - men don't even figure into this equation.
Sort of why the "Marlboro Man" worked so well.

Although I enjoy viewing fashion photography, I don't buy women's clothes (no comments here please :rolleyes:)

Victor

PS:I wish I had more opportunity for fashion or related. Women and their clothes just seem to have more variety (in spite of Bruno's attempt at a male 'midriff'.)
 

eleanorbrown

New member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

As a side note, much of what has influenced me has been knowing my friend, Wendy and her parents for the past 35 plus years. Wendy has become part of the Dove campaign for real beauty and self esteem for women and is a "model" for Dove. Here is a (nude) photo of Wendy. She is a wife, mother, grandmother, daughter, sister, has a career and is a PhD. Lives in San Francisco and swims in San Francisco Bay for daily exercise. I realize fashion is a billion dollar business but dog fighting, and our factory farming practices in this country are also big business and leave a lot to be desired. Doesn't make it right. Take a look at model Wendy and the short write up. This says better what I'm been trying to say:
http://www.dove.us/#/CFRB/arti_cfrb.aspx[cp-documentid=7049726]/

(copy and past the entire link of link above to get to the image and write up)

Eleanor
 
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Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

5. I've been to the top of a 14,000+ foot peak today with some wonderful images and I'm going to enjoy a glass of Merlot and process my P65 shots.

Eleanor
Which one? I'm guessing the clouds were pretty interesting given the pounding we got in Denver.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Yes more landscape images sorry couldn't find anyone willing to pose for me (actually really didn't look all that hard). These are from the South Rim, in and around Navajo Point. All taken with the WRS, P45+ and 120mm lens. Please note these are all works in progress as I need a slightly bigger screen to clean all the spots and that'll have to wait till I get home in a couple days.

Enjoy!
 

eleanorbrown

New member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Mt. Evans. no didn't hike this one! Horrendous weather but lots of fun. Narrow road with miles of sheer drop offs, we drove through high wind, rain, sleet, and snow on top. Bristlecone forest at treeline was shrouded in fog. Sunlight broke through a couple of times. Heavy fog driving home on I70 but spectacular dusk over Loveland Pass.

Which one? I'm guessing the clouds were pretty interesting given the pounding we got in Denver.
 
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eleanorbrown

New member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

Merlot....honestly didn't look, didn't care, but it tasted great! :) after driving this road all day. beautiful country but really challenging weather. eleanor
P65+ hand held. One of the few times we had clear driving. Eleanor

Or at least tell us what brand and year of Merlot you were enjoying! :thumbup:
 
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carstenw

Active member
Re: Fun with MF images - Part 3

As a side note, much of what has influenced me has been knowing my friend, Wendy and her parents for the past 35 plus years. Wendy has become part of the Dove campaign for real beauty and self esteem for women and is a "model" for Dove.
Here is a makeover movie by Dove which also hammers home the point of how unrealistic our expectations are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vFvLhNWfZU
 
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