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Thread: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

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    Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Hey guys, I've been a professional wedding and portrait digital photographer for 13 years but I'm new to the medium format game. I have a DM33 back and I use PCs. I used C1 for several years starting back in 2003, switched to a bible Pro, RAW Shooter Pro, then settled on Lightroom 7 years ago.

    So, I have the Aptus II back and I have 3 options to process files with. Leaf Capture only runs on Macs. So for this to be a consideration, I'd need to know what it does, if anything, that Capture One or LR don't do? Does it do something better? Under Phase management is it still going to be developed? Basically, is there any compelling reason to get outfitted to employ Leaf Capture?

    I've run files through both C1 and LR. Thus far I'm only seeing issues of a subjective nature. Are there any functionality advantages that C1 has over LR with these files or with things like tethered operation?

    Your assistance is very much appreciated as I navigate my way through this jungle.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Leaf Capture is no longer developed (I think 11 is the last version). The only advantage over C1 is the price. Leaf Capture is free. I switched from LR to C1 when I got my Leaf Aptus and could not be more satisfied with C1. The biggest advantage - rendering of the skin tones, just perfect. Other advantages: I really like working with sessions, a few neat tricks in tethered mode (overlay, composition mode, ...), fast and easy organisation within a session and best of all you are not tied to a predefined workspace design (like in LR) but can design your workspace in details as deep as it goes. Then there is focus mask, the excellent loupe tool and many many more advanced features (layered local adjustements, color wheel, ...).

    I suggest you watch their excellent webinars and video tutorials before starting working with C1.

    The only downside is that C1s Catalogs don`t work as good as Sessions, so if you are accustomed to LRs Catalogs I suggest switching your mindset to Sessions. They just work, flawless.
    Keeping film photography and printing alive!

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Since you're new here I should first point out my bias. Read my signature. Though I do try hard to provide accurate advice founded on real world experience I can't be considered entirely objective.

    Here is a self-quote from a recent post on made on another forum regarding reasons to select C1 over LR:

    Off the top of my head (I don't keep a list - things change too frequently):
    - Better Color (subjective but found consistently enough by myself and a high enough % of customers to say with confidence) especially with strongly saturated colors, purple/pink/red crossovers, skintones, and in steep tonal transitions like strongly side-lit portraits.
    - Better tonality especially in deep shadow detail
    - Noise/Grain/Texture/Microcontrast which looks better if your aesthetic is to allow grain but want that grain to be gaussian, fine, and film like rather than clumpy and digitally blob-like. On the other hand if you're shooting fairly high ISO with a dSLR and want the "clean commercial look" LR4/5 does a better job of what I'd call the "sledgehammer" approach of noise reduction if you abhor noise/grain and want no part of it.
    - More pro tools for tethering:
    --- live view
    --- camera controls
    --- fixed-focus windows (e.g. for four-corner-and-center analysis in a product/catalog environment)
    --- focus mask (especially powerful for first-round edits and shoots involving tilts/swings)
    --- overlay (great when matching another shot, or fitting a layout, also useful for random applications like matching color in art repro settings or corporate color settings)
    --- more detailed/flexible controls (assumes/requires more education and a desire for more power/nuance over first-glance-simplicity) like full RGB levels with numerical entry, more specific noise reduction sliders,
    - LCC tool which is required for tech cameras, but useful in a variety of niche applications including art reproduction and catalog shooting and automatic dust removal
    - Chromatic aberration and purple fringing tools that work better on a broader range of files with far less work/twiddling
    - A better laid out system for local adjustments (I think I'm in the minority here)
    - Far more customization of the user interface, especially handy on very small (e.g. 10" MBA) or very large monitors (e.g. 30" Eizo) or in multi-monitor environments. Every tool can be floated/added/removed/collapsed or put on a second monitor. Including keyboard shortcuts which are every power user's dream.
    - Better laid out tools for manual keystone/perspective correction (also auto-integration with newer Phase One digital backs, though that only helps those shooters)
    - Completely/immediately portable session layout. For anybody who uses multiple computers in their workflow this is a huge help. You don't have to export/splice/import/merge or do anything at all to move a C1 session from one computer to the other. Everything resides in the folder.
    - Massively better color editing tool (Color Editor) which is harder to learn but far, far more powerful than the LR equivalent.
    - Far more flexible process recipes/definitions/presets. I've set up some very sophisticated ones for clients which saved them many many hours every month.
    - Much better support. P1 has no "low level" support folks. You don't need to get "elevated" to get past the person who can only really help with basic problems. Support cases are answered in hours (very often faster), not days. Dealer support (at least the value added dealers who have dedicated tech departments) includes weekend/holiday/night/crazy-emergency support and includes workflow/productivity style help not just "this button doesn't work"
    - Faster processing in most cases (somewhat computer configuration dependent) with accurate time-to-completion times and preemptive scheduling (you can push a job to the front if you have a long queue that isn't a priority)

    Downsides include:
    - sometimes (though not always) being a few weeks behind LR on support of brand new cameras (since they are implementing the full SDK of the camera allowing live view, camera controls etc).
    - higher learning curve (often requiring capture one classes)
    - no prosumer features like Book/Map
    - pretty limited print functionality (some printing workflows C1 can handle on it's own, but more could be handled in LR on it's own)
    - spot removal tool is as good as LR4 but not as good as LR5. Not a deal breaker for my own personal work as I'd be hard pressed to not finish an image in Photoshop which requires pixel-level retouching, but for some workflows probably notable. Maybe C1v8?
    - no history panel (maybe C1v8?)
    - no highlight/shadow recovery in local adjustment system (you can accomplish the same thing with exposure/contrast tools but it requires more work)
    - small ecosystem of education/training like with Adobe. This is greatly alleviated by having a good dealer who can easily answer your confused question when google/youtube fails you.

    There are many more reasons (on both ends, pros and cons). But in general I see C1 targeting the pro market and making image-quality and pro-tools a high priority of design while LR tries to target pro and prosumer at the same time with the expected results of doing both quite well, but neither excellently.

    I'd NEVER tell someone they should just run out and buy Capture One (or any other software for that matter). There is a 60 day fully functional trial for a reason. If it's not clear that it will benefit you enough to justify the cost then you don't spend a dime. In your case however you don't need to pay anything anyway. See my next post...
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Quote Originally Posted by Tibor View Post
    Leaf Capture is no longer developed (I think 11 is the last version). The only advantage over C1 is the price. Leaf Capture is free.
    Capture One DB, which is free, supports his DM33.

    So both C1 and LC are free for his needs.

    Capture One Pro, which extends support into the dSLR world does cost $299, but unless he wants to use the software with a dSLR he does not need the pro version.

    I do believe Leaf Capture will continue to receive relevant maintenance updates for a while to support new OS's, but feature development and support for new cameras is definitely a no-go. All the R+D is going into Capture One.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Also notably the FILES will load in any of the three software suites. But tethering your Leaf is only supported in C1 and LC.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    One advantage to Leaf Capture, when tethered to Aptus2, is that the raw files it captures are not compressed the way C1 does it (for reasons that are a mystery to me). So you can open .mos files in ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) from Leaf Capture, but not from Capture One ( unless you convert them first using a converter program from Leaf)
    This doesn't seem like a big deal, but if you like a simple workflow where you shoot tethered into Bridge/Photoshop, tag your selects quickly, and process in ACR, like we do, it is huge.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Thanks guys. Just to clarify things, I'm not foreign to C1. I've kept tabs on every release of C1 since it 2003. I just haven't found this "better color" thing that others claim. But that's with Canon files. My Nikon and Olympus OM-D buddies tell me it's definitely there. Also, the BIG workflow thing for me that has proven itself time and time again over the years are the history states available in LR. When I try to do onesey twosey images in ACR, the lack of History States makes it very difficult for me to work on those images. In fact, I'd say the lack of History States in other tools is what has kept me with LR. So for me this lack in C1 is a biggie.

    That said, I'm run both LR and C1 side by side. Have been for years. I just use LR in production because I'm now much more adept with it. But at least I have a better idea for where difference may exits. In C1's favor, live view is very important to me. I run the CamRanger with my Canon gear and it's transformed the way I shoot in studio. SO I will need to thoroughly evaluate this.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    OK, help me out with the tethering stuff. It looks like the DM33 has a firewire port. Whether it's 400 or 800 I don't know. But to tether, you'd need a Firewire connection for the computer. However, Firewire is no longer standard issue on the current Macs as far as I can tell and it's never been standard on PCs. If one is using a desktop you can get a Firewire card, but for laptops that goes out the window. So, are there FW adapters. From what I can tell it won't work with USB adaptors. Please fill in the gaps of any misinformation I may have. Because I'm trying to see how backs with older data transfer technology get pulled into the future.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    It's a FireWire 800 port. The only solution to use it with a Mac which lacks FireWire is a thunderbolt to FireWire adapter connected to a firewire cable conncted to a powered FireWire hub connected by FireWire to the digital back; that's a lot of connections and is not exactly the most elegant tethering solution.

    I guess I'm confused. How did you come to have this back, is it a recent purchase or?

    I only ask because if its a recent purchase you might still be inside a return window to maybe select a more recent Leaf back like the Credo or any Phase One back which would provide native USB tethering (in the case of the credo), tethering by thunderbolt adapter without the need for a powered hub (in the case of the Credo or any Phase back), and would tether to capture one without requiring the files to be decompressed to also open in LR. You could also work with a value added dealer to test and get to know said system well before you make a purchase so there aren't surprises like these which can really put a damper on the experience.

    Or maybe tethering is just not a high priority for your needs?
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    There must be a windows-version of Leaf Capture; it's an older version 11.2.9 - but it runs: see here. So you could try out.

    But I think there's nothing you really need, if you use C1. I normally prefer LR, because there I can use every camera-system I have, but I think most time for the perfect picture C1 is better.
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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Doug,

    Tethering is not high on my priority list. I'm just investigating all the possibilitiesat this point. This whole medium format venture for me is a exploration of my photographic passion. Let me explain.

    Mondern day 35mm gear is outstanding. In fact, I "think" it's become too outstanding for me. Meaning, everything is so easy. It's so easy to produce awesome imagery that I've been somewhat bored for the past 4 years or so. I've been investigating MFD options since then. My goal is to discover whether slowing down by being forced to take more time to think about and capture my images would inspire more passion in operating my business. Or would the relative lack of technology (as compared to 35mm DSLRs) be too frustrating for me? So for me this is one big experiment. If the passion and the joy returns, then I'll upgrade the back knowing that it will be used. If not, I'll sell everything I've purchased and continue shooting my do everything for you 35mm DSLRs.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Quote Originally Posted by Mgreer316 View Post
    Doug,

    Tethering is not high on my priority list. I'm just investigating all the possibilitiesat this point. This whole medium format venture for me is a exploration of my photographic passion. Let me explain.

    Mondern day 35mm gear is outstanding. In fact, I "think" it's become too outstanding for me. Meaning, everything is so easy. It's so easy to produce awesome imagery that I've been somewhat bored for the past 4 years or so. I've been investigating MFD options since then. My goal is to discover whether slowing down by being forced to take more time to think about and capture my images would inspire more passion in operating my business. Or would the relative lack of technology (as compared to 35mm DSLRs) be too frustrating for me? So for me this is one big experiment. If the passion and the joy returns, then I'll upgrade the back knowing that it will be used. If not, I'll sell everything I've purchased and continue shooting my do everything for you 35mm DSLRs.
    That makes sense. In that case I might suggest buying/borrowing/renting a mid-range Mac with FW. A last-generation MacBookPro would be pretty affordable and provide you stable/fast native tethering (one cable directly from computer to back) with that back. I'd avoid the iMac or Mac Mini as we've found the power output of the firewire ports to be insufficient/inconsistent to power a Leaf Aptus back (i.e. DM33) which would require the powered hub and defeat the point. After the shoot you can then transfer the Capture One session to a more recent workstation for editing/adjustment.

    Welcome to medium format digital . It's not without some hassles and, as you say, there are less buttons and fewer convenience features than Nikon/Canon but the shooting experience and image quality is something else! I hope you'll post your findings as you go.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Doug,
    Do you recommend Leica S2/S users to avoid Capture One Pro and use Lightroom, or do you have fixes for them to get around the missing profiles ?

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Didn't have any agenda here, Doug. Sorry if you read it any other way.
    Gary

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Lightroom does many things and is best at none of them.
    C1 does best at processing images, and has started catalogues in a sort of lightroom way but has a way to go.
    I have too many images for Lightroom or C1 to catalog, so I do it the old fashioned way.
    The end result is the key.
    I know of no other system that is as adept at tethered shooting better than C1 despite its occasional absent-mindedness.
    If you don't mind sort of generic renderings with sharpening artifacts and wonky colors, then lightroom is your best bet.
    BUT, render your jpegs in Photoshop.
    -bob

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    You can't beat LR for cataloging. LR5 also has so very nice new features where you can really prep your digital negative for Photoshop. Plus, being an Adobe app, all of the commands and keyboard commands are intuitive and the same for the past decade plus. C1 seems to be the most stable for tethering and has fantastic RAW processing, but far less intuitive and not in line with Adobe apps. The lack of industry standards with these apps is very frustrating.

    A

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    I have found that C1 Pro renders and processes the files for the Leica S2/S better than LR does particularly in edge definition and sharpness.
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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    I have found that C1 Pro renders and processes the files for the Leica S2/S better than LR does particularly in edge definition and sharpness.
    ________________
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    National: 877.217.9870 | Direct: 786.459.7865
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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    I never got on with LR, tried C1 and found that once I'd got my head around how it works and how to get the best from it it pulls a better result out of raw files from all my Canon gear (5D3 / 1Ds2) and so the move to MFD wasn't as difficult as it might have been.

    Also I've found C1 has the best tech support of any software company I've encountered, I've had a reply within an hour to online enquiries, even at 2am!

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Please Please Please People at C1 / P1 improve your layers, give us an opacity control per layer, not just on the mask, make the layers easier to rename, I find I just click until I get lucky. Make the brush a little more responsive, I use a Wacom tablet - I do find the ver 7 seems better than ver 6 - Keep going in that direction

    I really like C1 - much better than ACR and I never really got into LR. Do like DXO - but hardly ever go there any more.

    I don't think C1 can take the place of PS, no way, BUT surely is the best Raw Converter for my Phase, Canon, and Fuji files - that's a fact.

    I am so happy I got into C1 - never would have if not gotten the Phase, so this was a great benefit.

    Phil

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Anyone have any real-world RAW comparisons? Seems a lot of folks hands down prefer C1's RAW capabilities, but haven't really delved into LR.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Quote Originally Posted by adaml View Post
    Anyone have any real-world RAW comparisons? Seems a lot of folks hands down prefer C1's RAW capabilities, but haven't really delved into LR.
    I'd feel very comfortable teaching a class on any of the three (C1, LR, Aperture), though I only actually teach Capture One classes.

    I've spent literally weeks of my life comparing various versions.

    I do go through about a half dozen examples of real world raw file differences in our Masters Class. But I'd strongly recommend you do your own testing and comparison. The differences are, IMO, not very subtle. But using someone else's raws only gets you part of the way to analyzing them. The question is really truly not "does program X work better than program Y?"; the question is "does program X or program Y work better for me?".

    Some areas to look out for (depending on your subject matter):
    - rendition of fine detail and problematic high frequency detail (like textures/patterns/small-print)
    - color discrimination (can you see the difference between subtle colors; you can't easily edit colors which are not differentiated from each other)
    - detail/tone/color in extreme highlights and shadows (before and after recovery)
    - color linearity (does a colored subject matter remain homogenous in color along harsh tonal transitions; like the shadow-to-highlight transition of a side-lit face)
    - noise structure (especially in higher ISO images do you find the grain/noise to be pleasant or disruptive)
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    As a fine-art printer, I've spent a lot of time with both and you can indeed get near C1 quality from LR, with a lot of effort, especially on well controlled, low DR images. It's when you start pushing things that C1 shines. Pulling out shadow detail whilst controlling noise and colour are amazing in C1 and in general if colour is important to you, you'll find C1 better to start with, but also has far better colour tools.


    I find LR non-intuitive and also the sharpening and clarity sliders are destructive to images.

    The big thing LR has in it's favour is it's digital asset management (DAM) capabilities. Agencies tend to have their taxonomy available in LR format. Maps tab is neat. Forget printing and the other layout stuff from LR, it's a disaster.

    I use LR to organise my images. As soon as I find a way to convert my taxonomy to C1, I'll move all my images over and dump LR.
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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    How do you find the printing from C1? The last time I tried it I was getting weird colors. Technical support pointed out that you shouldn't print from a RAW, but need to render an output file first and print THAT. This may be different in v7, but I haven't experimented.

    --Matt

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    To some extent the decision on using LR vs C1 should be based on the camera you're using. C1 is clearly the best choice for Phase owners - I simply cannot get the same quality output from LR, which really isn't surprising.

    My epiphany occurred a few years ago when I was processing a bunch of Canon files in LR, which I knew very well and loved. Sitting next to me was a buddy who'd been shooting the same stuff as I had, using the same gear, but processing with C1. His files looked way better than mine.

    So I started using C1 but got very frustrated with its hang-ups and non-intuitive GUI. I stayed with LR as my main processor partly because of familiarity and partly because of cataloguing.

    But slowly C1 improved and when I moved to Phase backs it was logical to use their software. I now feel more comfortable with it than LR, and now that Media Pro is fairly well integrated, I've stopped using LR altogether. Just occasionally I'll run a Sony or Leica file through both processors to see how they compare and almost always I prefer the C1 rendering.

    And as Wentbackward points out, pulling detail out of shadows is far superior in C1. (Doing it in LR gives that horrid HDR "look").

    However, I stop short of saying C1 files are intrinsically better - a lot of rendering is a matter of personal taste. I like dark chocolate better than milk chocolate. I like C1 better than LR.

    I don't like printing from C1 at all, though. LR is superior in that respect but I prefer to print from PS anyway.

    Actually, we are very fortunate to have several such very good processors available to us, whatever our taste.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    How do you find the printing from C1? The last time I tried it I was getting weird colors. Technical support pointed out that you shouldn't print from a RAW, but need to render an output file first and print THAT. This may be different in v7, but I haven't experimented.

    --Matt
    Matt, my comment was probably a bit unfair to LR, as indeed it implied printing from C1 is perhaps not a problem. I did have issues printing from C1 and recall odd colours was the problem. It was as if colour profiles were being applied twice.

    We only run one type of printer so I've not gone for a RIP. PS + Canon's somewhat confusing drivers get me the results I need.

    On that note, I recall LR would only allow me to use perceptual rendering when converting to TIFF, which granted is probably 80% of my work, but those times when I need true colour, it's not acceptable and the only way is to use a different RAW processor such as ACR, C1 or RPP. I don't know if they've fixed it or not.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Time will tell as I reintroduce myself to C1 after a few years of being absent from it. But in general, this is what I've discovered over the years in situations like this.

    When the "pro", "boutique", "specialized" thing is compared with the popular/mass market thing, those in the know state reasons why the less known/less popular thing is better. I've found many times this is true depending on what we're talking about. But I've all found that many times it's not true. It's a pure and simple bias.

    I love how LR processes Canon RAW files. That's not to say C1 can't at least do equally as well. But I haven't seen any obvious superiority by either over the other. With my Leaf files time will tell. But if it's close in my eyes with my images, LR will win. And not because of cataloging features as I don't use LR for image management. But because I'm use to it and I like the workflow.

    I'm a tinkerer by nature. So know I will continuously dabble in C1 and become very fluent in it over time. Then I'll make my production decision. But for right now and the near future, LR is delivering the goods.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    I currently use both LR 5 and C1 7 side-by-side to process my images from an IQ180. Primarily landscapes. I use LR as my "real" catalog, but in order to work on an image in C1 7, I have to go through the motions of importing it into a C1 7 catalog as well, process it into a TIFF, and then reimport into LR. I process a very small number of images over time into TIFFs for prints. I always process one of these images first in LR, and then I may decide to also process it in C1 7. In my experience, some of the images look best coming out of LR, and some out of C1 7. I just don't see in my work the differences in color and tonal rendering in a C1 7 file that make it superior to a LR file. I usually find it easier to get a really good result out of LR because the Shadow and Highlight tools in LR are just better. Those tools in C1 7 are very blunt tools that are not as powerful or constrained in the range of affected tones. If I use a Shadow tool, I don't want it to touch the mid tones and highlights. LR seems to self-mask other tones. I also find local adjustments to be much easier to implement in LR, and there are a lot of tools that just can't be used for local adjustments in C1 7. I also feel that the GUI and overall experience of working in LR is just more enjoyable. It comes way closer to passing the Steve Jobs "test".
    Last edited by hcubell; 15th August 2013 at 13:52.
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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Quote Originally Posted by Mgreer316 View Post
    ...But I've all found that many times it's not true. It's a pure and simple bias.

    I love how LR processes Canon RAW files. That's not to say C1 can't at least do equally as well. But I haven't seen any obvious superiority by either over the other....
    And that's right there. You keep hearing about this intrinsic "better" which I don't experience with my files (Canon). If you use a MFD, it's a different story, but to say that C1 is better ... it's an exaggeration. And you don't have to believe me: try to pull highlights from a wedding veil with LR and C1 and then tell me C1 is "better".

    As I mentioned many times before: BOTH are good. In certain situation you are able to get a better file out of C1 and in others from LR.

    After many years of use of both(I started with C1 but stopped for a while when they introduced v4) I still find LR's workflow better (especially for event work). I only use C1 for portrait work because of it's awkward workflow and (to me) is not as fast (workflow wise) as LR.

    In Mike's case, with the Leaf files, I think he will get better output from C1 since was geared towards MFD. But that doesn't mean C1 is "better" or that the files are "better", period. He will probably get better output in THIS PARTICULAR case.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Quote Originally Posted by Mgreer316 View Post
    ...When the "pro", "boutique", "specialized" thing is compared with the popular/mass market thing, those in the know state reasons why the less known/less popular thing is better. I've found many times this is true depending on what we're talking about. But I've all found that many times it's not true. It's a pure and simple bias...
    It will take only a moment to open two files side by side in C1 and LR to verify what works for your particular situation.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Quote Originally Posted by wentbackward View Post
    It will take only a moment to open two files side by side in C1 and LR to verify what works for your particular situation.
    I've been doing both practically all day today (much to the chagrin of my productivity!). I stand ready to be convinced of C1's superiority. But as of yet I don't see it. Right now I'm getting better output of LR. But I know that's simply because I'm still wrapping my brain around C1. But I'm even pusing myself in LR and using tools I normally don't use. The more I use these "new" tools, the more LR impresses me.

    I gotta be honest, while I'm trying to find a significant C1 advantage, I hope I don't find a significant difference. I would prefer not to utilize different workflows. One for my 35mm DSLRs and the other for my MFD stuff. But if I find it, I'll be compelled to do exactly that.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Doug Peterson gave great overviews, as usual. Thanks.

    I have downloaded and used the latest thirty day trial of Capture One and I love it.

    However, for me, and this is likely just for me, one HUGE downfall of Capture One, it there are not "hooks" for third party plug-ins like there is in LR and PS.

    Not having this functionality creates a cumbersome, slow clunky workflow.

    For the life of me I cannot understand why C1 does not include functionality for third party software. Hello, it is 2013.

    If C1 had this functionality I would be there but until then it is ACR/PS workflow for me.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    My "gotcha" functionality in LR that I don't see in C1 is history states. I find history states so incredibly useful I don't see how others don't duplicate it's functionality.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Mgreer316 View Post
    My "gotcha" functionality in LR that I don't see in C1 is history states. I find history states so incredibly useful I don't see how others don't duplicate it's functionality.
    Peter
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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Recently I used all 3 - C1Pro, LR5 and Aperture - all latest versions.

    I imported all my photos (meanwhile around 70k) in all 3.

    LR5 does best compression (lossless DNG) and is great for organizing. Aperture is what I use to import first and actually became my most preferred tool, just because of simplicity (for me), but the library file is much larger than what I have from LR5.

    C1Pro I would like most, but it starts screwing up and is very slow with a big catalog. I would like RAW conversion in most cases best, but the program seems to have some issues with Mountain Lion. And the catalog is similar size as Aperture library.

    So I still do not have a clear favorite but if Phase One would be able to bring a version from C1Pro which does not hang up itself again and again, I would surely go with C1Pro.

    Not sure how long this will take?

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    I just wish I could use X-rite Color Checker profiles in Capture One.

    If so I would probably use C1 for all my product work. Color matters and the Color Checker rocks for accurate color.

    Right now I have an old G5 running Leaf Capture so I can save to a hot folder that LR (on a PC) brings in the file and applies the profile.

    Unfortunately, the Leaf Valeo 22 back won't work with a PC. Not sure if Capture One on a Mac with see it either.

    Ideas anyone?

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    Senior Member eleanorbrown's Avatar
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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    I have a question about Capture One Pro v. 7.1.4...I have been a long time user of both C1 and Lightroom and have used both applications on my various types of files, incl. Phase One (2005 to present), Nikon D800e, Leica M9 and now Sony RX1R. I have been doing testing lately comparing processing on the same RX1R files in both applications to see if I could get where I could possibly just use C1 only. The RX1R has a tremendous dynamic range and I have files that have hugely deep shadows (some way underexposed to make room not to blow out highlights). I can get gorgeous natural looking results on these files in Lightroom with the highlight, shadow, white and black sliders. Wonderful results. Same file in C1 is pretty horrible...doesn't look natural and I think the C1 high dynamic range sliders (highlight and shadow) are a bad joke. No way to naturally pull the blacks onto the histogram as I can do in Lightroom. Help! Does anyone have suggestions? Am I doing something wrong that LR is so much better in handling these problematic and challenging files? I have tried using the local adjustment tools in C1 as an alternative but when the contrast in the image is so high...deep deep areas against very lght skies for example...even local adjustments are a disaster. I have always though C1 has been weak with files I'm describing but they seem to think they are the best! again, any ideas? (I use base iso and when I pull my exposure slider back and fourth I can confirm there is HUGH amounts of high quality information there in the files.) Many many thanks Eleanor

    PS...also on chromatic aberration....with a few clicks I can get rid of all of this in LR. There is no way I've found in C1 that will get rid of it all...not even clicking on "analyze" ....any ideas. ?

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Eleanor, please post raw files and screen grabs comparing the two softwares and illustrating the questions you have.

    Without those there isn't much chance for meaningful response.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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  39. #39
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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Thanks very much Doug for your help. Right now I'm sending you what I've already done and been working on last night and today...just an image of something I use here in my studio as a testing shot ...so nothing scientific! In this image some of the highlights are blown out but I'm not taking those into consideration here. I'm mainly concerned about how to handle the vastly underexposed areas. base iso of 100 on Sony RX1R. first one a shot of the RAW file with standard curve applied. Second one of the LR file after adjustments (I could handle most of the balancing of tones of using the exposure sliders and it was easy to do). Last is the C1 file and you can see the difference in the way I processed. With the sony file I can get the whole histogram on the chart with ease. I don't know how to do this with C1..I try using the output sliders in levels, etc etc. The tones on LR seem to be truer and smooth plus CR is gone. However I worked really hard to see if I could get the C1 file to match the LR file...thus the difference in processing. I could work with them both more and maybe get closer but the LR sliders seem so easy to use and get the results I want and I really have to struggle with the C1 highlight and shadow sliders. C1 doesn't seem to have the equivalent of the LR white and black sliders in the exposure panel which make controlling the histogram really easy for me)....Please correct me if I'm wrong......I would appreciate any suggestions you have!! thanks! Eleanor










    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Eleanor, please post raw files and screen grabs comparing the two softwares and illustrating the questions you have.

    Without those there isn't much chance for meaningful response.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin View Post
    ....
    As I mentioned many times before: BOTH are good. In certain situation you are able to get a better file out of C1 and in others from LR......
    Quote Originally Posted by eleanorbrown View Post
    ...I would appreciate any suggestions you have!
    I know your question was addressed to Doug, but I just don't understand why do you want to work more to achieve the same result as LR, when in LR was easier to do (and got the results desired)?

    Again, C1 is not better than LR (that time has long been passed). Yes, SOMETIMES, you get better results from C1 and SOMETIMES you get better results from LR. I can't understand the reason for somebody spending time (maybe hours) to achieve the look that you get from another converter. Care to enlighten me?

    When I'm not happy with the result, I try the other converter and usually I get the results I'm after. Rarely do I have a file that both converters give me problems.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Eleanor, I do not see a link to a raw file in your post. Without one no one here can play with your file to suggest where you might improve handling in C1.

    The shadow slider at 100 in C1 is going to lead to halos which you may be mistaking for residual CA. Hard to tell without a raw file.

    I'll be on the road all this week (in Chicago today and will be doing a DC C1 event later in the week) so unlikely I can help right away, but if you post a link to a raw file you may find someone else downloads it and can provide some meaningful input.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Valentin, actually you confirm what I've been doing all along...using LR with some files and C1 with others. I guess I was thinking using one RAW file application only for all RAW processing would simplify my workflow. (I use LR for literally everything else as it's so user friendly). But what I'm finding is sometimes C1 just is not the application to use up my time on when I can get superior results in LR with much less time and effort spent. Thanks, Eleanor


    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin View Post
    I know your question was addressed to Doug, but I just don't understand why do you want to work more to achieve the same result as LR, when in LR was easier to do (and got the results desired)?

    Again, C1 is not better than LR (that time has long been passed). Yes, SOMETIMES, you get better results from C1 and SOMETIMES you get better results from LR. I can't understand the reason for somebody spending time (maybe hours) to achieve the look that you get from another converter. Care to enlighten me?

    When I'm not happy with the result, I try the other converter and usually I get the results I'm after. Rarely do I have a file that both converters give me problems.
    Last edited by eleanorbrown; 23rd September 2013 at 21:03.

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    I've been a long term user of Aperture and never liked LR for various reasons, mainly to do with the quirky interface and modular nature. I love AP's library system and ease of use. However, it has lagged behind LR in some key features, and I am a bit tired of waiting to catch up - aren't we the instant gratification lot!

    Started using C1 since I got my Phase one system recently, it has been less than a month and have not done much processing of Canon files, but I can tell that the Leica files from my M240 come out so much better in C1 than they ever did in AP, the skin tones are simply spot on as is most of the white balance. I also like the flexibility that C1 provides although some tools could be a bit more Aperture like. My biggest problem right now is the clunky and partial support for Nik filters - only some of which run via the 'recipe' system, don't know why it won't recognize Silver Efex, Color Efex and HDR Pro but will allow in-program launch of the others.

    I think the DAM capabilities of Aperture are the best, it is also the fastest at pulling in images from CF cards and IMHO has the best user interface. If C1 could improve it's plug-in and DAM capability it would be my preferred choice.

    As one of the team leaders at the recent workshops said (paraphrasing a little) "LR is only popular because of Adobe and even though I love C1, I have to learn LR because everyone coming to my workshops is using it and expects me to be an expert at it"

    I process my canon/Leica files through AP, export them for printing via QImage (the only bloody reason I still run Windows via Fusion) and am using C1 only for the Phase One files which Aperture still won't recognize.

    If you have not printed via QImage, you must give it a try, short of using a RIP, it is the best way to print there is. Head to head comparisons even at 4X6 size show it is clearly superior. If only Mike Chaney would do a Mac version!

    Pradeep

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    I have used C1 to import the .mos from the CF card, and then export as .DNG Then I have imported it into LR for more development.

    The C1 according to my supplier, it render the files better. My theory is that C1 handle the RAW better, and then could translate it into a better .DNG file, then LR would direct.

    Anyone else tried this?

    I got the DM22 back

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Dng is just a repackaging of the original raw data - completely unprocessed.

    So any magic sauce of c1's processing will not be included.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Capture One vs. Leaf Capture vs. Lightroom

    Pradeep,

    I think that team leader was just biased. Plain and simple. There's no doubt that Adobe's marketplace might has a huge effect on LR's position as the leader. No question. But, LR also delivers the goods. If it didn't, it wouldn't matter if it was Adobe's product or not.

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