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Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

johnnygoesdigital

New member
Marc,

You'll notice I said "some answers". You specifically, wrote some pretty disparaging comments in regards to my experience with MFD, as if I didn't know what I was talking about or I was in over my head, even though several MFD cameras I purchased new, were useless. I was even PM'd by several members that said I should not rock the boat about MFD...yeah, real objective. Personally, I love the format, but I'm apprehensive to invest because of my past experience with it. I just think Nikon and Canon, and even Pentax are light years ahead of Hasselblad and Phase One. Even the Leica S is 6 years old, and in the digital age, that's ancient technology. Sensor size, lenses, and pixel pitch are the core of this technology, and quite frankly, MFD does not reign king anymore in several aspects of photography. In the Nikon section you won't find the "pile on the new guy" mindset because he dared to ask the bold, honest questions about the differences between the two formats. We're not just talking about cameras, it's an investment into a camera system for the future. If MFD doesn't hold up and you want out, your depreciation is insane in resale, but with Nikon or Canon, there's not so much personal reaction. So when you say I'm doing a disservice to someone who has a genuine interest in the format...your wrong, because that was me when I joined this forum looking for objective answers from experienced users as part of my research, and the ones who seemed most knowledgeable were in fact, not helpful at all.
 
I don't understand why the OP would post "Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?" in a MF forum, surely it must be a troll? No?

So anyway here are some interesting statistics to end this:



Basically Nikon shooters are much more prolific, and indeed it seems fickle, as they are probably going to like a reply more than an MF shooter. Despite this their replies are viewed less and appreciated less. Bear in mind that (IIRC) Likes were not a feature until sometime after 2011, so MF shooters are totally disadvantaged with their thread running far longer, yet still come out on top as more likeable.

Interestingly the average liked and max liked users in the MF forums are far higher than in the Nikon forums. I found that many of the MF shooters were also the most liked in Nikon, so Nikon can also thank them for enhancing their appreciability!

So 'nuff said, can we close this thread now and also end the is a D800 better question?
 

Swissblad

Well-known member
I don't understand why the OP would post "Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?" in a MF forum, surely it must be a troll? No?

So anyway here are some interesting statistics to end this:



Basically Nikon shooters are much more prolific, and indeed it seems fickle, as they are probably going to like a reply more than an MF shooter. Despite this their replies are viewed less and appreciated less. Bear in mind that (IIRC) Likes were not a feature until sometime after 2011, so MF shooters are totally disadvantaged with their thread running far longer, yet still come out on top as more likeable.

Interestingly the average liked and max liked users in the MF forums are far higher than in the Nikon forums. I found that many of the MF shooters were also the most liked in Nikon, so Nikon can also thank them for enhancing their appreciatiability!

So 'nuff said, can we close this thread now and also end the is a D800 better question?
Thanks for posting that.

I've often noticed who there is much more action - ie posting of images - on the MF forums in general that 35 mm ones - and your data backs this up.

:)
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
The big problem here is not user based problem, it is camera maker problem.

For me and what I like, I would like to see far more better and faster lenses.

What I like in MF world (other than pp color and modelé) is the creamy dof.

I shoot with f1.2 lenses on 35mm DSLR and I would like to see some extreme quality and extremely luminous lenses in the f1.2 - f1 range. I do hope that Nikon or Zeiss will go this way on super pixelatorized 35mm DSLR.

Just my opinion, you can continue fighting now :)
 

Shashin

Well-known member
So anyway here are some interesting statistics to end this:

Well, this leaves me rather conflicted. As a Nikon shooter, I have a better chanced to be liked--I mean, I bought the stuff to be popular. But, if I am liked, I have a better chance to be more liked as an MFD shooter.
 

tsjanik

Well-known member
Well, this leaves me rather conflicted. As a Nikon shooter, I have a better chanced to be liked--I mean, I bought the stuff to be popular. But, if I am liked, I have a better chance to be more liked as an MFD shooter.
But you have an even better chance if you're both:)
 

tsjanik

Well-known member
Had the OP asked "Why haven't you switched to FF from MFDB?" rather than "Why did you go back to full frame DSLR? " the question would not have been seen as inflammatory and would likely have garnered many more thoughtful responses.
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
For me, it's situational:

Landscape - I just like tech cams and their lenses. And I love the output from a Phase One back.

Action - Nothing beats a big DSLR.

I have to carry it - Micro 4/3 is a fine system, as long as I don't want to do Landscape or Action, which means I almost always wish I had one of the other two systems with me. If I did more natural light portraiture or street, then I'd be a bigger fan.

I forgot to bring anything - There's still the phone.

--Matt
 
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Steen

Senior Subscriber Member

I'm unable to see the question as inflammatory.

It's no different than asking people why they sold off their DSLR and jumped to e.g. Micro Four Third and wanting to know how it feels.

Then again I'm in the process to go back to APS-C from 'full-frame' (24x36mm) since a burglar has just parted me with my D800E plus my AF-S 1.4/85mm G, my best optic ever :(
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Honestly I did not read his posts as inflammatory at all even after seeing hundreds of the same posts. It was and is a genuine question he asked and honestly I really have not seen anyone fly off the handle in response either but maybe I'm not seeing it. Maybe I have more tolerance for it , don't know but regardless of how many times asked it still is a important question to ask. As reluctant as i was to answer it given my situation I still did and it was a personal one at that and I'm still not out of the woods on it either, not by a long shot.
Its a very upsetting subject for me as I did not want to sell my MF gear at all. But family is first even as a Pro that has to make money to support ones family giving up very nice gear is a really a sour stomach to say the least. I'm still sick over it.
 

Swissblad

Well-known member

I'm unable to see the question as inflammatory.

It's no different than asking people why they sold off their DSLR and jumped to e.g. Micro Four Third and wanting to know how it feels.

Then again I'm in the process to go back to APS-C from 'full-frame' (24x36mm) since a burglar has just parted me with my D800E plus my AF-S 1.4/85mm G, my best optic ever :(
Sorry to hear about that Steen - which DX system are you considering?
The FX D600 has pretty good IQ at a good price.
 

Shashin

Well-known member

It's no different than asking people why they sold off their DSLR and jumped to e.g. Micro Four Third and wanting to know how it feels.
But don't you ask that question in the m4/3 forum? The folks that sold off their DSLR would most likely not be in the DSLR forum anymore and would be in the m4/3 forum. It is illogical to go to a group and ask people why they are no longer members of that group. :loco:

Not that anyone making their first post would troll--just ask the Leica folks.

I think the OP is sincere, but there is history...
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Hello,

I am new to the forum and am considering getting an MFDB. After doing a lot of reading here, it seems that some people have given up MFDB and returned to full frame DSLRs.

Now that it is mid-2013 and the D800(e) is a well-proven machine, and Canon has hints of an even higher MP DSLR for 2014 possibly, it seems the future cost/benefits of MFDB are even murkier.

I am curious... Who here has recently left MFDB for the D800(e), and why did you do it?

Many thanks in advance for your views. They will help me form some of my own future plans.

John
The main reason is that I am getting older. It just became tedious to maintain effectively three or four systems.
First of all I absolutely LOVED the Rm3di and have nothing negative to say at all about it. When the IQ2 series was announced I found that the only interesting back for me was the IQ260 due to the longer exposure. At that point, I found that the cost to go from the IQ180 to the IQ260 was just unacceptable so I took a deep breath and bailed.
I have three sorts of photography:
1) Serious Landscape
2) Girls in studio or out
3) Travel
1) was best satisfied with the Rm3di plus IQ180, but the DSLR was not too far behind for nearly 100% of my printing needs (my most sold large print was taken with a Canon 1ds MkIII)
2) The DF was just a PITA and the AF was marginal. The DF+ is just a tad less marginal and lots of pixels are not necessarily a benefit.
3) Forgettaboutit OMG my back, shoulders, thumbs, etc, etc

So with a heavy heart and a bit reluctantly, and later than many, I said goodbye to MF other than my Hassy 500 film bodies.
I did enjoy the journey and if I was 20 years younger then I probably would still be at it (other than the IQ180-IQ260 insult)
-bob
 
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Stan ROX

Member
Well then.

My line of camera equipment "really" started with a 5D Mk II. But I was never satified with the results.

I bought a used H3D-22, was amazed from the result and upgraded finally to a H4D-40. From there, I used that system for ca. 12 months. You may have seen my pics here and there.

The Medium Format is so wonderful. The files, the clarity. Etc, etc. But the size, the weight. The low light problem. The AF-hunt.

I bought a D600 just because I knew that my H4D will get into trouble when I buy this D800. I finally did. When the D800e arrived, it was very clear that there is a difference in the files. You can see it. No way to discuss this away.

BUT: As soon as I started to use the Nikon CLS System along with Pocket Wizards, it was very clear that I can not work any longer with the big camera and the big flashes.

I had studio flashes with me, remote controlled via a remote (the Priolite system). With the Nikon CLS, I just arranged the light and the flashes did the measurement and the power control on their own.

What happens, is nothing less than spectacular. Today, I arrange the light ( in terms of light modfier and position) and don't think about the power control. If I really feel there should be more light, I control this via the Zone Controller.

For my kind of work, this is very essential. I can interact with my models much more thant before: No light meter, no test shots. I work with the model, arrange the light, tweak the power a little bit.

The resulting files are 98% of what can be achieved with my Hasselblad. This is, why I changed back from MFD to Full-Frame DSLR. The amount of money freed up allowed me the investment into two very serious lenses ( the Zeiss 135 mm 2.0 and the Nikon 200mm 2.0).

I'm using up to 4 Nikon SB-910, 4 PW's, Zone Controller, Adapter for Bowens Modifier, Umbrellas etc etc. Everything fits into a small package, makes all much more versatile and easy to handle. The biggest piece of my equipment is the Beauty Dish - but I'm pretty sure I'll find nothing smaller.

Feel free to ask me anything if your want to know more about. But keep in mind that I decided this for MY WORK. There is a small amount of studio work - I'm mostly on location, in Hotels, Apartments etc. I do no (not much) landscape or the like.

S.
stanROX.com

P.S. The first three pictures from my website slider are taken with the D800e recently. Judge yourself about image quality.
 
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GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I think Guy, Bob and Stan nailed the three main reasons I hear/see for the shift to FF DSLR systems. Opportunity cost/sunk capital, convenience and versatility being just some of them.

I think that most MF shooters are also probably also using FF DSLRs or equivalent alongside their other gear.

I totally understand Bob's feelings about the IQ2 cross grades. I think that there are more than a few folks who have a bad taste in their mouth about this round and that compounds on the other factors mentioned earlier.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
The question is valid and interesting, and the key factor is obviously the D800/E. However, what makes that camera such a strong proposition is more than the camera alone. It's part of a system that:

- Compares favourably with Digital MF with regards to resolution as well as general image quality for a much lower price and with better handling
- Is part of a system that also contains "holiday cameras", like the D5200, using the same lenses and accessories
- Is part of a system that offers the newest, best film 35mm SLR, the F6
- Is compatible with funky old cameras and lenses for those of us who also have photography as a hobby
- Offers one of the best, most advanced lighting systems on the planet
- Offers high quality lenses from 14-800mm in addition to countless third party options
- ... and the list goes on

These days, one must have some very special needs or a very strong passion to spend tens of thousands of dollars on exotic medium format cameras when there's a system around that in real world terms can almost everything a digital MF system does, and most of the time does it better, faster and cheaper. For my own needs, I've found that MF film offers things that 35mm digital simply cannot replicate. When it comes to Digital MF compared to a D800/E, I see more limitations than advantages, at least from a commercial point of view.

It's like Mercedes Benz vs. Bentley. I would love to have the Bentley of course, but for the extra money, what useful advantages does it offer?
 
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