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Thread: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

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    Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Hello,

    I am new to the forum and am considering getting an MFDB. After doing a lot of reading here, it seems that some people have given up MFDB and returned to full frame DSLRs.

    Now that it is mid-2013 and the D800(e) is a well-proven machine, and Canon has hints of an even higher MP DSLR for 2014 possibly, it seems the future cost/benefits of MFDB are even murkier.

    I am curious... Who here has recently left MFDB for the D800(e), and why did you do it?

    Many thanks in advance for your views. They will help me form some of my own future plans.

    John

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?



    Seriously though I have a feeling that it's mainly economics. Lots of people hurting in this economy and although there is no doubt of the advantages of MFDB, for many it's just no longer economically viable. I've also got an idea that for a lot of people the real world advantages of MF are just not that apparent in the work they do. It's a niche requirement to need the look, the resolution and the other advantages which as always when you work in the rarified atmosphere of the very best quality, is expensive, harder to use and not really the need of the majority. If you do need it of course then for all the DSLR evangelists, a D800 is just not going to cut it.

    We just finally took out our D800e from the box it has sat in for the past 10 months in the studio. There were various reasons why we hadn't used it until now. When I get the chance I'm going to do a side by side with our Leaf Aptus II-8 back in our repro studio using C1 7.1.3. I'm actually really interested in the results. To be frank though, even if the D800e is as good (I doubt it will be as good and we need every single advantage we can get) the 40 megapixel backs aren't worth that much on the 2nd hand market. We'd lose more that we would gain selling it. It's being used for what it was built for. A studio. Wouldn't be worth bothering. Again that's if the D800e is as good and I don't think it will be. Should be fun to compare though next time I'm bored.
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    I use my Pentax 645D far more than my D800E.

    Personally, I don't choose my camera by what the "majority" of what other people do. I don't chase pixels either. I would encourage you to do your own research and not use anecdotal stories to purchase expensive equipment. People's opinions really don't mean much.

    Personally, this being your first post, I would say stick where you are happy. That D800E will be perfect for you and the D800E is a fine camera--I have one myself.

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I use my Pentax 645D far more than my D800E.

    Personally, I don't choose my camera by what the "majority" of what other people do. I don't chase pixels either.

    Personally, this being your first post, I would say stick where you are happy. That D800E will be perfect for you and the D800E is a fine camera--I have one myself.
    I like the D800e for certain, but I would not say I am "happy" with it. I am a former 8x10 shooter, so it really lacks compared to that.

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    There are a few vendors here, I would contact them for sample images. I would also get your hands on some of these cameras and shoot some files and look at them. That is the best way. There are rental places and some dealers may lend demos.

    BTW, you are simply not going to get the look of 8x10 with MFD. That is not a saying one is better than the other, but there is no substitute.

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    I am a hobby shooter using a Leica S and also a Canon 5d (I switched from Nikon to Canon last year for color reasons and some Canon lenses I like).
    The Canon images are just fine and the 5dIII is very fast and nice to use.
    Sometimes fast AF, Zooms etc are a benefit.
    However everytime I use the Leica S I feel to be rewarded by the Image quality.
    The Canon IQ is just fine, the IQ from the Leica S makes me WOW.
    I think it is the same thing if you browase through the Nikon or Canon image thread and then through the MF-image thread. There is a difference even at web size.

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    [Sigh] Just buy a D800, post on the Nikon forum and don't start another one of these threads. There are tons of threads that discuss this ad nauseum
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    There are a few vendors here, I would contact them for sample images. I would also get your hands on some of these cameras and shoot some files and look at them. That is the best way. There are rental places and some dealers may lend demos.
    Self serving of course, but I can't +1 this enough.

    We have plenty of raw files and are glad to provide remote demos of functionality, in person evaluations, or shipped-rental-towards-purchase arrangements. We also work hard to keep real-world experience on the relevant cameras. For instance I shoot weddings and portraits with Phase, Leaf, and Canon cameras, and assist/tech for a variety of our clients. We also create a variety of tools such as our focal length visualizer, both public and private, to help our clients choose equipment. In short we're happy to do anything we can to help customers make informed, well-considered decisions on which, if any, medium format solutions best fit their needs.

    If there was one camera that was the best option for every person for every purpose then there would only be one camera in the world. But instead there are myriad options; even in niche areas like technical cameras there are several companies with several models each.

    It's good to do research, but a very open ended question like "why did you go back to full frame DSLR?" is as useful (IMO) as a question like "why do you drive a sedan"? You'll get reasons, but they won't necessarily be relevant to you.

    If you are going to ask for forum advice I strongly suggest you outline a LOT more about you, your needs, your likes, your dislikes, your shooting style, your subject matter, your priority, your budget considerations, options you've researched/tried/ruled-out etc etc etc. If you come to the table with more details about you then others can chime in more specific and relevant advice. It won't be infallible as everyone's preferences will vary (I've literally seen two people pick up the exact same camera at trade shows and in turn claim it was the best feeling and worst feeling body they'd ever held) but at least it will be aiming to address the specifics that matter to you.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    I went from MFD>D800 and found that it covered many, possibly even most, of the bases as well as I needed. But not all. So I eventually upgraded my MFD optics and technical camera body and went back to using my IQ180. For my practice, both are needed. And that is not cheap!

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Self serving of course, but I can't +1 this enough.

    It's good to do research, but a very open ended question like "why did you go back to full frame DSLR?" is as useful (IMO) as a question like "why do you drive a sedan"? You'll get reasons, but they won't necessarily be relevant to you.
    Doug, yes, I agree with all you said, and, of course, I would try a system before buying. I have already spent some time working with full-size RAW files in C1 and PS. They are better than the files that come out of my D800e. So that isn't really what I am questioning. I mainly shoot portraits in the studio, so, again, it is clear that is a viable use case.

    What "why do you drive a sedan?" will get you is possibly someone suggesting something about sedans that you have not thought of or uncovered in your research. In particular stories of "it wasn't worth it to me, and here's why" would interest me. Sure, some of those stories would not apply to me, but I would still find it interesting. It's a lot of money.

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Hello John:

    There are lots of reasons to use MFDB. Counting pixels is almost least of them. For me, its the lenses. Nothing is better for low distortion, edge to edge sharpness, and overall look as the medium format lenses available for a technical camera. Even if Nikon or Canon had a 60MP camera, I'd still prefer the IQ260 and my 5 lenses on my Alpas. All have in-camera perspective control. Get your hands on some files and you'll see.

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    FWIW here is my digital camera journey as far as I can remember:

    Kodak DCS460
    Imacon Flexframe 3020
    Imacon ixpress 384
    Nikon D2X
    Hasselblad H2D22
    Hasselblad H3D31
    Nikon D3
    Canon 5D2
    Nikon D800
    Hasselblad H4D40


    The italicised ones I still own and use.

    Find the tools that work best for you and use them.

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    I can't say why I would leave MFD for 35mm since I didn't. I still have both, and use each for their relative strengths.

    However, per Ben's well reasoned reply, I no longer have a big gun 60 meg large sensor 645 MFD camera ... mostly because I no longer need one as I retired from the commercial work I did with it. It wasn't a pure economic issue as much as a specialty need that tied up a lot of cash to accomplish work I no longer do.

    I now use a Leica S2P and CS lenses which isn't exactly inexpensive ... especially compared to a Nikon D800 kit. It is more about economic means matched to changing needs and personal creative preferences. If pure economics forced the issue, I'd have no qualms with going to a Nikon D800 or whatever meg monster Canon brings to market ... knowing full well that megapixels isn't everything, but it IS something worthwhile if you have the need.

    The S2P fits a number of functional and creative criteria that my current Sony, or a Canon, or a Nikon of any meg count would not meet. I need high sync speeds because I do a LOT of work with lighting, especially outdoors ... and the S syncs to 1/1000 ... or with a flip of a switch focal plane speeds to 1/4000. Functionally, I like a big viewfinder, and it is tough to go back to a smaller one. I creatively prefer the look and feel of MFD images, and especially like the Leica AF CS optics which I paid dearly to get.

    So, for me a 24 meg full frame 35mm DSLR is plenty for how I use the format and the functionality of such cameras.

    RELATED NOTE: There was an interesting recent business article on the camera industry, and the rapid decline of sales for smaller sensor cameras ... primarily P&Ss, but effecting everything all the way to 35mm DSLRs. The business point being made was that the makers must begin re-tooling their marketing focus away from meg count and concentrate on sensor size as the point of difference. Cell phones are killing off sales because the consumer cannot tell the difference, and they do not want to carry around a brick to get that difference ... even including those more educated in photographic imagery.

    On a selective note: it seems the very notion of sensor size being the new criteria of excellence and photographic performance would seem to benefit MFD with a halo effect since they are the largest sensors available.

    - Marc
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    I never "left" the 35mm FF DSLR format to begin with. And frankly, I think the reality is that few ever can make a clean break from one format or the other. Different tools, and they do complement each other well. Right now the best marriage imho is a Phase IQ MFDB and the D800/e. I'm still waiting for Canon's response to upgrade my 1Ds Mark III. Totally happy with the IQ180 paired with the next Canon flagship....

    From a pure "photographic enjoyment" perspective---yes, I could easily leave a FF DSLR and the Phase DF for a technical camera and MFDB.

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    I use both a 35mm DSLR and a MFDB system. Neither one replaces the other.

    My Arca Swiss Rm3Di with the Rodenstock lenses and the Phase One IQ160 is the ultimate tool when you need the best wide angle image quality combined with camera/lens movements. The 35mm lenses do not come close to the performance of rodenstock glass. Also, the precision of the Arca and the range of movements is unmatched by any dslr option.

    For studio work I mount the phase one back on a Hasselblad H1 and can shoot portraits just like with any dslr.

    The phase one back so far has been rock solid reliable. If something happens the back is fully serviceable and since I bought from a dealer (Digital Transitions) they should be of great help in the process. Same with the Arca and Rodenstock lenses.

    Bottom line, with medium format digital backs one can build a system from the ground up to suit your needs/wants. There are many possible combinations of backs/bodies/lenses.

    Nowadays there are digital backs like the IQ260 that are designed to be good (at base iso) in any light since it can do very long exposures. It's best to call a dealer and discuss the options available with your budget.

    Is it for anyone. No. It is just another alternative that is available.

    A 35mm dslr like a D800E is generally much more versatile and of course, cost effective.

    I wrote a bit about my experience HERE (I am a client not an employee of DT)
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Like many I use both MFD and 35mm FF.
    Unlike many Nikon users I've not jumped on the D800E bandwagon, as the D700 (and occasional use of a D4) meets most my 35 mm needs, and is not a diffraction limited, a hindrance in macro work. I also did not want to invest in a whole lot of new non-AF Zeiss glass, which defeats the 35mm objective IMHO.
    Instead, I acquired a used H3D at a good price, and although I've not bonded with it like my HB 503, it does allow me to use my old HB Zeiss glass, whose qualities I really like. The colours are magnificent straight out the camera, and tethering in simple and a pleasure to use with Phocus. MFD is different - period.
    That said, if I had the $, I would buy a CFV 50 and a ALPA tech cam...... one can dream

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Perkins View Post
    I mainly shoot portraits in the studio, so, again, it is clear that is a viable use case.

    .... It's a lot of money.
    In your case I would rent (or test) a MF system, which will allow you to appreciate the big viewfinder, the way MF lenses render portraits, more pleasing skin colours etc.

    If you are impressed and hooked, then scout for a good 2nd hand system to start with.

    Mind the motto of this forum section though... abandon all hope....

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Just actually did the test in the studio between the Aptus II-8 and the D800. The MFDB is sharper and crisper at the pixel level but it's pretty close on resolution, as close as you would expect from the numbers which surprised me. Keep in mind that I'm comparing a schneider lens to a Nikkor which would probably explain the crisper results. Colour accuracy and separation seem to be a clear win for the MFDB but again I'm using the single canned D800e profile in C1 in comparison to the Leaf Product Profile which is specifically tuned for the kind of shooting I'm doing. Until I can work out a custom ICC profile for both, I'm just wandering around blindfold with this comparison.

    I've got a feeling that the MFDB would cream the D800 on skin tones and tonality but it's just a feeling, I've never shot portraiture with either. Even then you have to see if you can 'see' it, trying to explain the difference in tonality between formats is pretty difficult, hard to find the words, you either see it or you don't and if you don't then why bother spending the money? I've got a feeling that the money would be better spent on lighting and modifiers at the 40 megapixel level if you're looking for better tonality. Please note again, this is just my musings based on zero experience with MFDB's with portraiture.
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    I've got both a D800E and a Hassy H4D-40. I personally don't see it as a MFD or 35mm thing and shoot with both when I'm shooting (Hassy on tripod, Nikon handheld). I've not done any detailed comparisons because it's just not worth the time or effort for me. For me both systems are complimentary. There are things I like about the Hassy (color rendition, monster viewfinder, lens quality, long exposure with no LENR/blackshade) and things I like about the Nikon (lens selection, ISO, size, FPS). There are also things I don't like about each system, but shooting with the MFD system gives me a feeling I don't get with 35mm...I just enjoy shooting with the MFD more. I don't see myself going back and am working on planning for an IQ260/IQ260achro in a couple years. That being said, I'm not getting rid of my D800E.

    As others have stated, the D800 vs MFD issue has been discussed ad naseum on many forums. Forums are great sources of information, but you really just have to get your hands on a MFD and see if it's worth the investment for you. There are several MFD dealers on this forum (Digital Transitions, Capture Integration) and I'd recommend speaking with them. They will go out of their way to let you try MFD without pressure or an obligation to buy. You can also rent from them and try out stuff in your own environment.
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    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    The title of this post is a bit disingenuous. In my opinion it would be a better question in the Nikon forum. Especially if you're trying to talk yourself out of purchasing an MFDB or just need to feel better about not being able to afford an MFDB system.

    The D800e is a fantastic camera and the price point is equally as appealing so I doubt anyone here would trash it. I own one and use it where it fits but most of my shooting is with the IQ180. If you want crisp, lifelike prints larger than 36-40 inches and can't stitch due to subject and lighting the MFDB is very appealing.

    Personally, I am not worried about cost as the resulting image is most important. I invest a lot of money on travel and coming back with the best quality possible is more important than the cost of the camera system. A 3-4 year amortization of the camera system cost is relatively small compared to my travel budget.
    Ed Cooley Fine Art Photography
     
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Thanks to the people who provided helpful information!

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    In regards to doing research on MFD, this is a great place to start. You would expect to find many experiences here considering the heading of this particular section (MFS & DB's). Yes, many have left MFD for the Nikon D800, and some experiences are varied. For me, I wanted the best money could buy, I wanted a camera system I could expand on to enhance my productivity...a camera I could rely on and have access to the best lenses, one that wouldn't be shadowed by planned obsolescence. I thought, it must be medium format digital.

    What became extremely frustrating for me, was the initial investment of MFD, and its reliability.
    The D800 has been a fantastic camera so far and i'm sure Canon will match that too. Consider this purchase carefully because if your doing studio portraits, then the D800/e will be perfect! According to DXO's own evaluation the Nikon D800/e sensor outperforms all medium format DB's, including Phase One's IQ 180!

    My experience with MFD left me with no confidence in the cameras, but I do still shoot medium format film, with the option of a DB, in my Hasselblad H2. That's a fantastic, reliable camera system, by the way. It just seems the fully digital ones had glitches. If you decide to shoot MFD, most, if not all of the cameras can be purchased for considerably less of their original cost. Also consider the Pentax 645D, it's the same sensor as the H4D/40, but I don't think i've read anything negative about that camera, and new lenses are being added too.

    While i've become sorta of an outcast here at GetDpi because of my comments about MFD, these are my experiences. When you can concentrate on the art, as opposed to the tools, you evolve.
    Last edited by johnnygoesdigital; 11th August 2013 at 07:26.

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    To the OP, Ed said it pretty well: If you want to find reasons to stay with MFDB or both MF and FFDSLR, then your question posed here makes sense. If you want to hear reasons to not bother with MFDB, post this same question in the Nikon forum.

    End of day it really is simple: Assuming one of the say last 3 generation of DMF systems, nothing beats the quality of a properly captured and properly processed MF file, regardless of MF cam/back used to capture it. Compared to the current gen D800, you'll be living with a bit slower and less accurate AF, fewer auto features, slower capture rates, larger physical camera size, more limited lens selection and a few operational idiosyncrasies dependent on which system you use to get those superior files.
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post

    What became extremely frustrating for me, was the initial investment of MFD, and its reliability.
    The D800 has been a fantastic camera so far .....
    It's a pity about your experience with the reliability of MFD systems.

    It's odd, but the reason we've stayed off buying a D800E has been the question of reliability - with too many postings on the web concerning the infamous "Left AF focus" issue, but also the experience of colleagues, who've had numerous repair issues.

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    I guess these issues happen with all makes and models, but unfortunately I would lose more on the depreciation and downtime, as opposed to just abandoning the system. Oddly, my H2 and RZ, that both can take film or DB's work perfectly. I didn't want to abandon the format completely

    The D800 has been flawless so far, really sharp images with an insane amount of dynamic range. Go figure...
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    In a fairly short time I will be selling my wonder Hasselblad H3D2-38 and four lenses. Not because I don't love them because I really do. But I'm getting closer to retirement from my studio at the same time my high school senior business is growing. It's just overkill using the MFD on seniors. Plus I need a new roof on my building.

    When I compare my H3D2-38 files to my Canon, I just smile. The Hassie files are just so much nicer to view, nicer to work with, faster to retouch and they just plan make me grin to see all that detail. But the bottom line is my gear is a tool of the businessl and it's not getting the use it should so it will be sold. That's why I'll be moving back to dslr and Fuji XE1.
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    I'm just amazed how civil this thread has been ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    That is the beauty of being too tired to care...
    Will

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Actually, I'm kind of amazed that there is so much emotion provoked by asking a simple question about reviewing decisions made about gear in retrospect.

    I am grateful for the people who are giving their insights without insinuating I have some malicious intent. I don't.

    Before I posted I did look around quite a bit. There was a lot of arguing about comparing the two systems in terms of raw performance, but there wasn't much direct discussion I could find of "I did it, but it wasn't really worth it to me, and he's why." Also I did not feel that posting in the Nikon forum -- where probably 99.9% of the people never WENT to MFD -- was any more appropriate than asking the question here.

    I'm fine to let the thread die or be closed at this point.

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    Smile Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I'm just amazed how civil this thread has been ...
    Well, I imagine that the mindset that is necessary for the slowed down, contemplative nature of Medium Format has a civilizing influence, or uncovers the underlying benign and tolerant nature of those individuals who develop interest or addiction in the area....
    Pity it is not a universal attribute...
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  31. #31
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Equipment bulk, flexibility (like lens selection) and economics, vs diminishing benefit.

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    John, you might be surprised at the contentious debates we have every time a 35mm camera is released with more pixels, the D800 being the latest. Since your title implies why you should even bother with MFD, it really seems like another ones of those threads that get rehashed again and again. We are getting tired of the noise. So please forgive us if we seem a little ratty about this. But welcome.
    Will

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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Considering new members join all the time, you'd think John would get a little respect. How is he to know that this has been discussed?

    John, your question is valid, but when you start to peel away the layers here, some answers might not be as objective as you'd think.
    Think about it, this is a photography forum where questions and answers should mingle freely without repercussions for offending a brand or format. At the core of these disgruntled replies, might be the initial investment to MFD or why would it matter?

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    Senior Member alajuela's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Considering new members join all the time, you'd think John would get a little respect. How is he to know that this has been discussed?

    John, your question is valid, but when you start to peel away the layers here, some answers might not be as objective as you'd think.
    Think about it, this is a photography forum where questions and answers should mingle freely without repercussions for offending a brand or format. At the core of these disgruntled replies, might be the initial investment to MFD or why would it matter?
    I think John has received respect, look how many people gave their truly honest answers. As I am sure John and all of us see, there are as many answers as there are people. Unfortunately it is not a simple Math problem, there are "Horses for Courses" but also it is subjective and based on perceived need and other influences.
    John should as mentioned - get to a reputable dealer, look at Phase, Leaf, Pentax, Leica SLRs, maybe techs or view cameras.
    Philip
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    I think it is totally fine if such questions come up again and again.
    Being someone having used both MF and DSLR and mirrorless for many years I am debating with myself every couple of month about this question.
    It is very hard to answer though and everybody has to find out himself.
    I have found 2 cameras which are the right compromise for me:
    The Leica S system because for a (near)MF system it is very flexible and easy to use, it is also weather proof and it is relativly good to carry.
    The 5dIII because if I use a DSLR I want it to do the things my Leica S can not do so good: fast AF tracking, fast shooting, good high ISO, nice zooms (I use the 24-70II 80%) and all this not being too big.
    The IQ from the 5dIII seems very good to me, still the IQ from the S is clearly ahead in my "view"/opinion/taste.
    I am now more debating with myself if I really still need a Leica M (which is a system I have used and liked for many years)

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    .
    I am now more debating with myself if I really still need a Leica M (which is a system I have used and liked for many years)
    If you still like it then it seems logical to keep it.

    As regards the DSLR vs MF system questions, it's really a case of deciding what matters to you and decide appropriately. They are just intrinsically different and it's a personal decision.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    There are so many motives, and rarely it's about image quality alone.

    I use my tech camera to shoot landscapes because I enjoy the workflow and movements is important for my style. I like the sharp and simple Schneider Digitar lenses more than the retrofocus monsters available on the DSLRs, but I'd love to have Canon-like liveview and D800-like dynamic range in my digital back if I could.

    I also have a Canon DSLR which I use for all types of hand-held photography or other fast-paced action. I would personally probably have a very hard time convincing me that I would need a MF-DSLR as they for me just feel like a old sluggish 135 DSLR with a nice viewfinder, but if I would work in a studio or more with lighting perhaps I would.

    I think I'll stay with MF for at least a few years to come (it's very hard to predict the future, just look back just 5-6 years and how the DSLRs where back then!) for my landscape photography, and I hope that MF manages to stay competitive so they can be a nice alternative also in the future as I like diversity.

    Tech cameras and the "large format spirit" is the reason to stay in MFD for me. The worst scenario from my perspective would be if Schneider/Rodenstock would decide that "large format digital" is not profitable enough and discontinue them, and future tech cameras would be focal plane shutter pancake cameras (like Alpa FPS) with DSLR tilt-shift lenses (like Canon TS-E), then I'm out. Then I'd prefer to shoot with a high res DSLR. I don't like the slide towards more similarity with the DSLRs in terms of lens and camera design.

    The best scenario would be if MFDB prices go down a bit and high DR CMOS with low color cast appears, and the to-be-discontinued copal shutter gets a nice economic replacement.

    In any case, I don't see my MF ownership as something solid long-term, I take it one year at a time.

  38. #38
    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    I think most MFD users also have a 35mm system.

    That said, when I'm viewing images on this or others forums, I spend more time viewing the MF images than others....
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Sorry Johnny, but group objectivity is an elusive trait when each and every person has a unique take on such a subject.

    To imply that anyone that disagrees with your take or hasn't shared your experiences has some hidden, non-objective agenda does a disservice to many who have a genuine, well thought out interest in one format or another.

    Personally, my interest in the modular MFD system has wained not out of any negative experience, or thinking it isn't different enough any more. I simply retired from doing the type of work that MFD does best.

    Gone are the days of shooting for GM, Unilever Foods, Johnston Outdoors, American Axel, Watch and Jewlery makers, various Bank corporations and other major clients. Some of the assignments I did for them even pushed the limits of MFD ... so I know exactly why I used such gear.

    What little of it I still do can now be handled with my S2 because Leica made an H to S adapter that allows me to use the HTS/1.5 unit for tilt-shift applications. Innovations can alter how one structures their gear bag ... including replacing something with a D800 if it does the job ... or adding a modular MFD if it doesn't.

    I've always gravitated to the Hasselblad V and then the H because they are leaf-shutter based systems. It is as simple as that. As my needs changed, that is one that did NOT change. So when it became possible to shift to the S2 with either HC leaf-shutter lenses, or now the recent Leica CS lenses I now have, the Hasselblad H4D was no longer a required choice.


    Our lives, needs and interests drive our decisions ... and for the most part I think that is clear from the well reasoned responses here.

    - Marc
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    My main decision from MF to going back to a Nikon was not based on any technical reason. Mine was purely a financial reason and was forced to sell for medical reasons to take care of my wife. But it was at the same time the D800 hit the streets, so it was a little easier on me as a shooter to at least have a high MPX camera to go to. Now would I prefer to have stayed MF, you bet and the D800e is very nice and I use the best glass I can get my hands on it but it still is not MF. I would prefer still to be shooting MF. The good news is if I need MF I can get whatever I need in a 24 hour period. I also stay out of most of these debates as well. Bottom line as a Pro I will use whatever I need to get the job done regardless of format or brand which neither one puts money directly in my bank account. You have to shoot what gear will get the job done and one that you can master to get the results you need. Only way to do that is test everything you can get your hands on and see what works best for you.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  41. #41
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Marc,

    You'll notice I said "some answers". You specifically, wrote some pretty disparaging comments in regards to my experience with MFD, as if I didn't know what I was talking about or I was in over my head, even though several MFD cameras I purchased new, were useless. I was even PM'd by several members that said I should not rock the boat about MFD...yeah, real objective. Personally, I love the format, but I'm apprehensive to invest because of my past experience with it. I just think Nikon and Canon, and even Pentax are light years ahead of Hasselblad and Phase One. Even the Leica S is 6 years old, and in the digital age, that's ancient technology. Sensor size, lenses, and pixel pitch are the core of this technology, and quite frankly, MFD does not reign king anymore in several aspects of photography. In the Nikon section you won't find the "pile on the new guy" mindset because he dared to ask the bold, honest questions about the differences between the two formats. We're not just talking about cameras, it's an investment into a camera system for the future. If MFD doesn't hold up and you want out, your depreciation is insane in resale, but with Nikon or Canon, there's not so much personal reaction. So when you say I'm doing a disservice to someone who has a genuine interest in the format...your wrong, because that was me when I joined this forum looking for objective answers from experienced users as part of my research, and the ones who seemed most knowledgeable were in fact, not helpful at all.

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    I don't understand why the OP would post "Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?" in a MF forum, surely it must be a troll? No?

    So anyway here are some interesting statistics to end this:



    Basically Nikon shooters are much more prolific, and indeed it seems fickle, as they are probably going to like a reply more than an MF shooter. Despite this their replies are viewed less and appreciated less. Bear in mind that (IIRC) Likes were not a feature until sometime after 2011, so MF shooters are totally disadvantaged with their thread running far longer, yet still come out on top as more likeable.

    Interestingly the average liked and max liked users in the MF forums are far higher than in the Nikon forums. I found that many of the MF shooters were also the most liked in Nikon, so Nikon can also thank them for enhancing their appreciability!

    So 'nuff said, can we close this thread now and also end the is a D800 better question?

  43. #43
    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I'm just amazed how civil this thread has been ...
    I'm not sure for much longer.... sadly.

    It seems that there are some who continually want to rock the boat.

    Pity.

    I prefer to look at images - especially MF ones.

  44. #44
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by wentbackward View Post
    I don't understand why the OP would post "Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?" in a MF forum, surely it must be a troll? No?

    So anyway here are some interesting statistics to end this:



    Basically Nikon shooters are much more prolific, and indeed it seems fickle, as they are probably going to like a reply more than an MF shooter. Despite this their replies are viewed less and appreciated less. Bear in mind that (IIRC) Likes were not a feature until sometime after 2011, so MF shooters are totally disadvantaged with their thread running far longer, yet still come out on top as more likeable.

    Interestingly the average liked and max liked users in the MF forums are far higher than in the Nikon forums. I found that many of the MF shooters were also the most liked in Nikon, so Nikon can also thank them for enhancing their appreciatiability!

    So 'nuff said, can we close this thread now and also end the is a D800 better question?
    Thanks for posting that.

    I've often noticed who there is much more action - ie posting of images - on the MF forums in general that 35 mm ones - and your data backs this up.


  45. #45
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    The big problem here is not user based problem, it is camera maker problem.

    For me and what I like, I would like to see far more better and faster lenses.

    What I like in MF world (other than pp color and modelé) is the creamy dof.

    I shoot with f1.2 lenses on 35mm DSLR and I would like to see some extreme quality and extremely luminous lenses in the f1.2 - f1 range. I do hope that Nikon or Zeiss will go this way on super pixelatorized 35mm DSLR.

    Just my opinion, you can continue fighting now
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?


    Format beats brand
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by wentbackward View Post
    So anyway here are some interesting statistics to end this:


    Well, this leaves me rather conflicted. As a Nikon shooter, I have a better chanced to be liked--I mean, I bought the stuff to be popular. But, if I am liked, I have a better chance to be more liked as an MFD shooter.
    Will

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Well, this leaves me rather conflicted. As a Nikon shooter, I have a better chanced to be liked--I mean, I bought the stuff to be popular. But, if I am liked, I have a better chance to be more liked as an MFD shooter.
    But you have an even better chance if you're both

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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    Had the OP asked "Why haven't you switched to FF from MFDB?" rather than "Why did you go back to full frame DSLR? " the question would not have been seen as inflammatory and would likely have garnered many more thoughtful responses.

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Why did you go back to full frame DSLR?

    For me, it's situational:

    Landscape - I just like tech cams and their lenses. And I love the output from a Phase One back.

    Action - Nothing beats a big DSLR.

    I have to carry it - Micro 4/3 is a fine system, as long as I don't want to do Landscape or Action, which means I almost always wish I had one of the other two systems with me. If I did more natural light portraiture or street, then I'd be a bigger fan.

    I forgot to bring anything - There's still the phone.

    --Matt
    Last edited by MGrayson; 12th August 2013 at 08:29.
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