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Thread: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    I'm about to pull the trigger on this lens, does anyone have any examples?

    I'm going to use it with the PGS on my alpa for portraits so I'd like to see the rendering wide open ideally.



    Copied from the Alpa website:

    Product
    Schneider Apo-Digitar 4.5/90 mm N, SB 34
    Details
    Shutter: Copal 0
    Aperture: f 4.5 - f 32
    Image circle at full aperture: 90 mm
    Image circle at f 11: 90 mm
    Max. angle: 53 °
    Distance settings: 1.5 m - infinity
    Filter thread size: 40.5 mm

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    I have the lens, but unfortunately any wide open shots, I only use it for landscape. If noone else replies I could make some test shot for you. I do not think the look of f/4.5 has any significant shorter feel to it than f/5.6 though so say if you already have the 120 f/5.6 I would guess it's just as good.

    (edit: found one full-figure wide open test shot, sent in private message.)

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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Very useful, thank you Torger

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    I love the foggy foreground bokeh (a little soft-focus feel to it), while the background bokeh is a little bit more worried. You can see up in the left corner of my test picture how specular highlights are rendered, they're a little bit sharp-edged. I'm no bokeh expert though, I don't know how well the expertise thinks it competes with the alternatives, and "bokeh kings" I've looked at also have edgy specular highlights. I do think that it stands out quite well due to their relatively low amount of correction. I've got the impression that most/all Digitar lenses have similar bokeh due to their similarity in design.

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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    I like the foggy foreground as well. I have noticed most lenses get a bit nervous at medium distances. I'll mostly shoot tight headshots so the out of focus areas will be obliterated anyway

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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar



    Shot right now from reading your post while having a coffee on the terrace. Should you want to look at pixel level the original is as usual a 16bit Tiff!

    Background blur busier than foreground.
    Alpa 12 Plus • TC | Schneider 90N | Schneider 120N | Hasselblad X1D | XCD 21 | XCD 45 | XCD 90 | www.danlindberg.com
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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Interesting Dan, other than the rare 95/3.5 is there a lens you recommend more for portraits? How does the 120N compare?
    I don't find that bokeh that busy though, the Leica 90/2 APO is similar.

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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar





    Both shot with the SK 120N, love it and prefer it over the SK 90 N when it comes to out of focus rendering.
    Alpa 12 Plus • TC | Schneider 90N | Schneider 120N | Hasselblad X1D | XCD 21 | XCD 45 | XCD 90 | www.danlindberg.com
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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Thanks Dan, very helpful.

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    This is an old thread, but I'm looking for an overall opinion on / evaluation of this lens. Is it sharp out to the edges of the 90mm image circle? Is it usable at, say, f/5.6? Anything else about it I should know? I'd be using it on an H5D-50 (CCD) back at this point.

    I currently have a rodenstock 40mm HR and a Schneider 60mm XL on my Alpa, so a 90mm lens would be a great way to fill out the range.

    thanks
    ethan

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    I have this lens and use it daily for my product photography. Very sharp and very usable movements. I compared it with the Rodenstock 90mm sironar digital and found that the Schneider was sharper and better. The Rodenstock will give you more movements as it has a larger IC.
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Boinger View Post
    I have this lens and use it daily for my product photography. Very sharp and very usable movements. I compared it with the Rodenstock 90mm sironar digital and found that the Schneider was sharper and better. The Rodenstock will give you more movements as it has a larger IC.
    Agree. A good lens. Better than the blue ring 90mm Rodenstock, which has a bigger image circle, but is not anywhere near as sharp. (The yellow ring HR-SW is another story, but that's $10,000+ !)

    Conversely to others here. I owned the SK 120N, a late version, and found it not that sharp. Sold it. Clearly... YMMV.
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    There's my Alpa SK 90/4.5 for sale on eBay at the moment. f.y.i.
    Last edited by narikin; 19th March 2019 at 16:16.

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    There's an Alpa SK 90/4.5 for sale on eBay at the moment. f.y.i.
    only 2nd one I've seen in 10 years.
    Yep, and on LuLa too. (From someone with a strikingly similar username.) I’m considering it. Finances are a bit tight.

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by epforever View Post
    Yep, and on LuLa too. (From someone with a strikingly similar username.) I’m considering it. Finances are a bit tight.
    Are you using it on an alpa?

    If not they are like $850 bare lens.

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Boinger View Post
    Are you using it on an alpa?

    If not they are like $850 bare lens.
    Yes, on Alpa. Otherwise it would indeed be a lot simpler. 90 isn’t a common focal length for me.

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Well, I just dove in on one of these from Alpa. They now have them in an aperture-only mount for e-shutter use. 300 grams, wow; that's 1.5 lbs less than the 90hr-sw. Narkin, I would have gone for yours @ Lula but I really need the sb34 mount. We will see how it goes...

    Ciao,
    Dave
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Well, I just dove in on one of these from Alpa. They now have them in an aperture-only mount for e-shutter use. 300 grams, wow; that's 1.5 lbs less than the 90hr-sw. Narkin, I would have gone for yours @ Lula but I really need the sb34 mount. We will see how it goes...

    Ciao,
    Dave
    Yes I saw the Alpa announcement today. Its optically very similar/identical, but what they are doing here is re-purposing the Schneider 90mm Apo Componon enlarger lens. I'd imagine it will be the same end result, but just 2 things: it has no shutter of course, so only can be used with Electronic Shutter, or a Silex/FPS unit. And it has a rather poor 5 blade aperture, not remotely circular, so will give strange halos, if shooting into the light.

    Otherwise, yes SB is very useful to have for tilts/shifts. Hope you enjoy it.

    It's interesting that Alpa are re-working enlarging lenses for some units. I can only hope that the legendary Apo-El Nikkor's 105mm's get mounted this way, but being as Nikon don't make them anymore, and they are still $2500+ used, it's unlikely.

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    Yes I saw the Alpa announcement today. Its optically very similar/identical, but what they are doing here is re-purposing the Schneider 90mm Apo Componon enlarger lens. I'd imagine it will be the same end result, but just 2 things: it has no shutter of course, so only can be used with Electronic Shutter, or a Silex/FPS unit. And it has a rather poor 5 blade aperture, not remotely circular, so will give strange halos, if shooting into the light.
    Yeah, I was hesitant about the 5-bladed aperture, but my 250 SA is the same structure, and I have not run into that in my images. That is part of my, “we will see how it goes” comment. If I find limitations, I won’t be selling my 90-hrs anytime soon.

    Dave
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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Well, I just dove in on one of these from Alpa. They now have them in an aperture-only mount for e-shutter use. 300 grams, wow; that's 1.5 lbs less than the 90hr-sw. Narkin, I would have gone for yours @ Lula but I really need the sb34 mount. We will see how it goes...

    Ciao,
    Dave
    +1
    I'm ordering one on Monday. 20/23mm movements with the X1D + MAX. Irresistable.
    Alpa 12 Plus • TC | Schneider 90N | Schneider 120N | Hasselblad X1D | XCD 21 | XCD 45 | XCD 90 | www.danlindberg.com

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    The Cambo 90 Actar must also be using same enlarging lens as the Alpa 90. I would really like to have access to the aperture piece as it has the same spacing as the existing aperture/shutter mechanism used on Schneider/Rody lenses.

    Victor

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Just fyi, the full SK Apo-Digitar 90/4.5 was sold in SB version later in its life, I believe.
    Had a proper 8 blade round aperture in the Copal aperture too. Just sayin'.
    Alpa no longer sell it of course, since Schneider got out of MF tech lenses altogether.
    It seems they bought up some dead stock 90/4.5 Apo-Componons and got those mounted, which is very creative of them!

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    For anyone interested, apparently Alpa is doing a new limited release of this lens? Got an email about it yesterday:

    https://www.alpa.ch/en/article/apo-d...590-mm-sb34-au

    Edit: sorry! I didn’t see the above discussion about it

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    I'm going to spin it this way: without the Copal shutter it is the "weather sealed" version for technical cameras.

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Although similar in design, the new shutterless Alpa 90mm isn't - at least on the basis of the lens data available in PDF format at the above link - the 90/4.5 Apo-Componon. It is the 90/4.5 Apo Digitar - e.g. actual focal length of 90.8mm for the former, 89.8mm for the latter etc.

    Jim

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    I don't know, Jim. I cannot tell them apart aside from the form factor. Here is the mtf from Alpa:
    https://www.alpa.ch/_files/90N_MTF.pdf

    Here are the apo-componon pages from Schneider:
    IDT_apo-componon_45_90_1.pdf

    MTF_apo-componon_45_90_2.pdf

    They both say f=89.8mm. The MTF's at first look different but they have different line pair groups and claim slightly different image circle diameters.

    Schneider took down their apo-digitar MTF's, so we can't be sure what used to be there.

    Dave
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar



    I remember reading some place that the Apo-Componon HM and the Apo-Digitar were identical, but the old PDFs I found seemed to indicate otherwise. I think. But then again, was there an Apo-Componon 90/4.5 and an Apo-Componon HM 90/4.5 ? In which case, the PDF I have is for the Apo-Componon, which may explain the discrepancy.

    Jim

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    Yes I saw the Alpa announcement today. Its optically very similar/identical, but what they are doing here is re-purposing the Schneider 90mm Apo Componon enlarger lens. I'd imagine it will be the same end result, but just 2 things: it has no shutter of course, so only can be used with Electronic Shutter, or a Silex/FPS unit. And it has a rather poor 5 blade aperture, not remotely circular, so will give strange halos, if shooting into the light.

    Otherwise, yes SB is very useful to have for tilts/shifts. Hope you enjoy it.

    It's interesting that Alpa are re-working enlarging lenses for some units. I can only hope that the legendary Apo-El Nikkor's 105mm's get mounted this way, but being as Nikon don't make them anymore, and they are still $2500+ used, it's unlikely.

    This is not the APO Componon, it is in fact, the Schneider-Kreuznach APO Digitar version.


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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    The weird thing is that a quality enlarging lens is optically computed for close focus distances, i.e. small magnifications of 4-12 times or so. Or an even narrower range for the very best lenses. Whereas a taking lens is computed for much bigger magnifications/ distances. That's why there are regular and macro versions of some lenses - different computations for different distances.

    So in theory this 90/4.5 Apo-Componon formulation should be designed for close up/macro work, but not for distances/ landscape etc. For that is should be the Apo-Digitar formulation. But... no idea if Schneider operated at this level or not.

    I owned and used a lot of the very best enlarging lenses in the past, and found the term 'Apo' was banded about cheaply, without meaning anything much. The only ones that were truly Apo were the Apo-El-Nikkors, those were far and away in a league of their own. (not Apo Nikkors, not El-Nikkors, but Apo-El-Nikkors) As soon as you looked through a focus scope it was clear - a level way above any of the offerings by Rodenstock and Schneider.
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    This is not the APO Componon, it is in fact, the Schneider-Kreuznach APO Digitar version.


    Steve Hendrix/CI

    Hmmm, ok Steve, if you say so. But the body, aperture/ iris, and markings are the same style as the Componon lens. And quite different in appearance to the Apo Digitar lens body (I have owned both). Maybe they took the Apo Digitar elements and put them in a Componon style body/mount?

    It's all most odd, but quite honestly I trust Alpa, and am sure it will be a very good lens. The price is certainly right..!

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    Hmmm, ok Steve, if you say so. But the body, aperture/ iris, and markings are the same style as the Componon lens. And quite different in appearance to the Apo Digitar lens body (I have owned both). Maybe they took the Apo Digitar elements and put them in a Componon style body/mount?

    It's all most odd, but quite honestly I trust Alpa, and am sure it will be a very good lens. The price is certainly right..!

    Hi Narikon, I confirmed with Alpa directly. I've sold some of the Schneider NK-O lenses in the past, and they do look like the Componon lenses when mounted that way, but this lens is indeed the 90mm/4.5 APO Digitar.


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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    My order is in place and I am excited! I have worked with this lens before in its former configuration so optically I know how well it renders. Now in combination with the X1D I can throw it around without worrying too much of degradation. The compactness and featherlightness is fantastic - X1D+HXD+11mm extension+Maxbody+Schneider90 = 2.4kg in total. And I can (supposedly) go all the way 20mm left and 20mm right and flatstich for a pano. For panos I find it perfect focal length. Or, I can quickly go 10 up and 10 down for a flatstich ending up with a classic square image.
    I can see myself thinking of this lens as a Swiss Army knife of lenses, very flexible usage.

    Can't wait
    Alpa 12 Plus • TC | Schneider 90N | Schneider 120N | Hasselblad X1D | XCD 21 | XCD 45 | XCD 90 | www.danlindberg.com
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Hi Narikin, I confirmed with Alpa directly. I've sold some of the Schneider NK-O lenses in the past, and they do look like the Componon lenses when mounted that way, but this lens is indeed the 90mm/4.5 APO Digitar.
    Steve Hendrix/CI
    Yes it's the body style of the original Componon 90/4.5 enlarging lens. (the later 'HM' 90/4.5 version added a kind of auto aperture stop down lever, but was optically unchanged, I believe)

    One day we'll maybe know the inside story of this - was it a freshly commissioned batch of lenses? did Schneider have the components/ lens groups to make a small number of these for release, despite stating they were no longer in the MF tech camera lens business? Why is it in the Componon enlarging lens body/with its poor iris, rather than the Apo-Digitar body?

    To accentuate the positive: I hope this is the first of a batch of stripped down (no shutter) lenses from the big manufacturers, at more affordable prices. Simple, lightweight, and ready for ES use.

    (Sadly the Rodenstock 138mm Float lens, is 'floating' around $13,000 in a no shutter configuration!! so it seems it does not apply so widely)

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    To accentuate the positive: I hope this is the first of a batch of stripped down (no shutter) lenses from the big manufacturers, at more affordable prices. Simple, lightweight, and ready for ES use.
    Oh, and I'd LOVE for Alpa to make some cones/helicals ready for 38mm 'Leica' threaded enlarging lenses. Just screw it in and use it. Done.

    You can get cones w helicals from that guy on eBay, but would prefer an Alpa designed one, with spacers to get infinity right (not that these lenses are really for infinity work)

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    Yes it's the body style of the original Componon 90/4.5 enlarging lens. (the later 'HM' 90/4.5 version added a kind of auto aperture stop down lever, but was optically unchanged, I believe)

    One day we'll maybe know the inside story of this - was it a freshly commissioned batch of lenses? did Schneider have the components/ lens groups to make a small number of these for release, despite stating they were no longer in the MF tech camera lens business? Why is it in the Componon enlarging lens body/with its poor iris, rather than the Apo-Digitar body?

    To accentuate the positive: I hope this is the first of a batch of stripped down (no shutter) lenses from the big manufacturers, at more affordable prices. Simple, lightweight, and ready for ES use.

    (Sadly the Rodenstock 138mm Float lens, is 'floating' around $13,000 in a no shutter configuration!! so it seems it does not apply so widely)

    It is possible that certain companies purchased some remaining stock from Schneider-Kreuznach in the end days of their larger format journey. We saw some evidence of that with the Cambo Actus/Credo 50 bundle that included an SK 90mm lens (after Schneider's exit):

    https://captureintegration.com/credo...tus-db-bundle/

    I have seen some other instances of what I believe to be Schneider lenses risen from the grave as well, and now this also from Alpa.

    It would have made sense for them to purchase these in the waning days of SK View Camera lenses - the better lenses were really good, Schneider may have had a lot of remaining inventory, the price was probably really right, and who knows what developments the future might hold? And here we are.



    Steve Hendrix/CI
    Last edited by Steve Hendrix; 25th March 2019 at 09:23.
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    It is possible that certain companies purchased some remaining stock from Schneider-Kreuznach in the end days of their larger format journey. We saw some evidence of that with the Cambo Actus/Credo 50 bundle that included an SK 90mm lens (after Schneider's exit):

    https://captureintegration.com/credo...tus-db-bundle/

    I have seen some other instances of what I believe to be Schneider lenses risen from the grave as well, and now this also from Alpa.

    It would have made sense for them to purchase these in the waning days of SK View Camera lenses - the better lenses were really good, Schneider may have had a lot of remaining inventory, the price was probably really right, and who knows what developments the future might hold? And here we are.
    Schneider continues to make new manufacturing runs when properly motivated by the quantity of the order. For example, we (DT) continue to commission new production runs of the Schneider 72 Digitar and Schneider 120ASPH for use on the DT RCam.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Those two lenses (72mm, 120mm ASPH) are two of the finest lenses Schneider ever made. They remain staples on both 33X44 and 40X54 sensor cameras that I shoot. What is a minimum run? Can't be all that many......

    Victor

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Schneider continues to make new manufacturing runs when properly motivated by the quantity of the order. For example, we (DT) continue to commission new production runs of the Schneider 72 Digitar and Schneider 120ASPH for use on the DT RCam.
    I can attest to Doug's comments about the 72mm and 120ASP by Schneider. We have both of these lenses in Arca R mounts and the for size and weight they are spectacular.
    The 120ASP is the sharpest lens we've tested with the IQ4 for closeup work, its no wonder that DT uses them on their copy systems as well, also about 1/3 the cost of the Rode 105mm and more compact.

    Robert

  40. #40
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Received my Schneider f/4.5 90mm Apo Digitar (SAD) in the new shutterless mount. Since I have the Rodenstock 90hr-sw (HRSW), I can compare them directly. The reason for my interest in the Schneider is size and weight. If the quality is “close enough” to the hrsw, then I save 562 grams (933 vs 371 w/ caps). This gets me down to 8.3 lbs for a 4-lens 54x40 MF kit. I bet most “FF” DSLR kits weigh more. If I add the 250 SA for more reach, it totals 10.9 lbs. (5) lenses from 35-250 (24-162mm in FF).

    This is the difference in size between the two. I included the 34mm adapter behind for reference, and because both lenses are "SB" mounts so they require that adapter.


    Quick results on the IQ3100: At f/11, the SAD is nicely sharp to the edge where it begins to get dark around 96-98mm. The official image circle is 92mm. In my opinion, this is one time where Schneider has underestimated the useful image circle. It is not the HRSW, which is phenomenal everywhere in the image circle from f/8 until diffraction takes over. But the SAD sharpens nicely by f/5.6 unshifted and is what I would call very good at f/11 out to ~ 95mm. Vertical 18mm shifts are no problem (93mm IC), and horizontal 18mm shifts (98mm IC) are excellent to within a few percent of the corners at f/11.

    Using this lens in the field is a dream. The 40.5mm filter thread is wonderful. I can permanently mount a small lens shade, and I already have step-up rings since my sk150 is also 40.5mm. I’ve used electronic shutter exclusively since the feature was released; for my use there are no downsides. It is different w/o the Copal shutter, though. On the negative side, it is a pain to use the lens cap vs. closing the copal shutter. I am used to dropping the lens cap into the camera bag so I don’t fumble around looking for it when I pack up or change lenses. With this lens you have to keep it in your hand or in your pocket. IQ4150 users won’t care since the whole black frame experience has essentially gone away. On the positive side, I have zero black frame errors from forgetting to open the shutter after taking a dark frame!
    Here is a rough comparison:
    HRSW @ IC-98mm f/5.6 = SAD @ IC-67mm f/5.6
    HRSW IC-98mm @ f/8 = SAD @ IC-67mm f/8
    HRSW @ IC-98mm f/8 = SAD @ IC-98mm f/11

    You see the pattern: As things sharpen up, the SAD lags behind the HRSW by one f-stop or by std vs shifted IC. Rated 1-5, 5 being excellent:


    Here is the f-stop series for the SAD at the image corner. Top row (tagged green) is the unshifted 40x54 IC – 67mm. Bottom row is shifted to ~ 95-97mm IC:


    Although my test was not definitive, it does seem the SAD has less field curvature, at least at 5 meters. If I refocus the HRSW in the corner at f/5.6, results are excellent. Samples of the HRSW @67mm f/5.6; left is refocused, right side is before I refocused from the image center; you can see it is back focused. I should repeat the test to see if it was my focus error.


    I tried the SAD up to f/16, but did not see a significant improvement at the extreme corners of the image circle. My conclusion is to shoot the SAD unshifted at any aperture I want. Shifted I will stick to f/11 or higher.

    Dave

    18mm L/R shift horizontal (f/14) and 18mm rise / fall (f/16), blended in PS:


    Last edited by dchew; 23rd April 2019 at 01:09.
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  41. #41
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Oh, and someone mentioned the helicals are from Rodenstock. Sure enough...


    How glorious a greeting the sun gives the mountains! - John Muir

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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Great Dave! Now I long even more for mine I should be getting it next week. With my smaller sensor it should be perfectly fine for flatstitching landscapes! Thank you for the preview
    Alpa 12 Plus • TC | Schneider 90N | Schneider 120N | Hasselblad X1D | XCD 21 | XCD 45 | XCD 90 | www.danlindberg.com

  43. #43
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    For those of you who are really curious about this Schneider 90mm Apo-Digitar, I did some more testing and loaded up some raw files. As usual, even simple testing is fraught with “error bars.” Basic focus errors are impossible for me to completely eliminate at this level, so please keep that in mind. All images include a focus ruler so you can check for yourself. I can see focus shift (or operator error?) even between f/8 and f/11, so viewer beware and have a look at the ruler.

    This is the usual boring bookshelf subject. I apologize for that, but it is the best controlled environment I have.* The test goes basically like this:
    Equipment:
    Schneider f/4.5 90mm Apo Digitar (SAD)
    Rodenstock f/5.6 90hr-sw (HRSW)
    Alpa STC
    IQ3100
    RRS 34L tripod w/leveling base
    Arca Swiss Cube

    Shooting process:
    Tethered to C1
    Electronic shutter w/ 2 sec delay
    Wide open down to f/11 in 1-stop increments
    No filters
    No LCC
    Focus on LensAlign
    Shoot, judge focus accuracy, reshoot if necessary
    White balance on LensAlign

    Shoot two series: One on-center with no movements, a second shifted horizontally 18mm, which equates to a 98mm image circle at the image corner. I moved the camera in order to keep the shifted scene roughly the same as the unshifted scene.

    I usually shoot between f/8 and f/16. Even with C1 Diffraction Correction enabled, diffraction at f/16 is pretty clear, so I didn’t bother shooting above f/11. There is one image at f/13 with the SAD in order to see if there was any further improvement at the extreme edge, but I couldn’t detect anything significant. Note the SAD aperture runs in ½ stops from f/5.6 to f/32. There are two positions wider than f/5.6. Wide open is f/4.5, so I assume the detent between f/4.5 and f/5.6 is a 1/3 stop increment.

    Results:
    If you are in the market for this lens, I suggest you download some of the raw images and make your own assessment. Again, please pay attention to the LensAlign ruler. I do think a few images are slightly front or back focused. Here is an example at f/11. HRSW (left) looks back focused, SAD (right) looks front focused.



    In general, the unshifted images are essentially identical at f/11. I am surprised at how similarly these two lenses render in both contrast and color. If you hide the image names, I wouldn’t be able to tell the full-scene images apart, aside from knowing the HRSW is very slightly wider.



    Here is the shifted image with image circle diameters (not radius) written in to give you a reference of how it was shifted:


    At lower apertures, my previous post summarized the results:


    At f/11, The SAD is excellent out to about 72mm, where it slowly falls behind the HRSW. By 98mm I’d call it very good. The HRSW is excellent everywhere. Considering the official image circles are 92mm (SAD) and 120mm (HRSW), I’d say the SAD does remarkably well.

    For me, this is where the rubber meets the road:


    This is at the extreme edge shifted 18mm, so mid-90mm IC to 98mm. This is the difference between 0.9 lbs / $3000 and 2 lbs / $9000. If you need to shift this far and beyond, AND there will be important stuff in that area of the image, then the HRSW is clearly better.

    Raw files are here:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kb4wc91ho...uNBHXsOva?dl=0
    (well, they will be soon - 5 more to go; I’m uploading from a DSL connection…)
    Naming should be straight forward:
    Example: Cntr_Sk90_11_9200
    Cntr / Edge refers to the image without shift (Cntr) and with 18mm horizontal shift (Edge)
    Sk90 / Rodi90hr refers to the lens
    f-stop is next
    Image number

    Dave

    *Please don't judge my audio equipment; that little thing hasn't been hooked up in the 17 years we've lived here!
    Last edited by dchew; 15th May 2019 at 10:39.
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  44. #44
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Dave, thanks for the extensive test of these two 90mm lens options. I feel there is another viable consideration based on extensive tested we have done; Rodenstock 90mm APO-Sironar Digital (magenta ring). With an image circle that is far larger than Schneider non-copal APO-Digitar, in fact, slightly larger than the Rode HR-SW, this lens includes a traditional copal 0 shutter, is 30% lighter than the HRSW and physically smaller (virtually splitting the size and weight between the two lenses you tested). Examples of the Rode APO-Digitar can be found that are very clean, sharp and purchased for under $1,800, which is 1/2 of the cost of the Schneider and 1/5 of the cost of HRSW. Optically I'd put the the Rode APO-Digitar closer to the HR-SW in performance (when we tested ours on the IQ4) but not by much. The SDK as you point out is the smallest and lightest option at a reasonable price point. Personally, I find the price jump that Rode's and SDK's have made in the past several years extraordinary.

    R
    Last edited by RLB; 14th May 2019 at 18:23.
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  45. #45
    Member CAMBOUSA's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Schneider continues to make new manufacturing runs when properly motivated by the quantity of the order. For example, we (DT) continue to commission new production runs of the Schneider 72 Digitar and Schneider 120ASPH for use on the DT RCam.
    And while we are on the subject, I'd like to bring attention to the following post on Facebook last month from Cambo HQ!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2019-05-15 at 12.28.54 PM.jpg 
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    Blake Griffin - Channel Manager - Cambo USA
    Cambousa.com l Email l US Dealer List

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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Hi Blake,

    Are there any plans by Cambo to sell the 90 Apo-Digitar and/or other focal lengths (e.g., 120mm) in aperture mount for the WRS? Just asking for a friend...

    Thanks.

    John

  47. #47
    Member CAMBOUSA's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Quote Originally Posted by jng View Post
    Hi Blake,

    Are there any plans by Cambo to sell the 90 Apo-Digitar and/or other focal lengths (e.g., 120mm) in aperture mount for the WRS? Just asking for a friend...

    Thanks.

    John
    Delivery should begin sometime in June (Jokingly I was told somewhere between June 1st and the 30th when I pressed for more information) of all current Rodenstock HR optics mounted in Rodenstock Aperture Only (AO) will be available for WRS. These will be available as standard WRS or T/S varieties depending on which lens is chosen.

    Since it has the same size opening as the Copal-0 standard, I believe that retrofitting older lenses is possible. It would likely be done at Rodenstock (with the mounting into WRS mount being handled by Cambo), however I haven't received a 100% confirmation on the process or pricing yet.

    Earlier this month I delivered the latest price sheet to all of the US dealers that contains pricing info. Please reach out to your dealer of choice for more info!

    **Edit**
    Totally didn't answer your question. When it comes to the older SK Apo-Digitar lenses, I don't think any others are available at this time outside of the 80mm mentioned below. And that in itself is a whole different beast. I don't have any pricing on it, but I'd be happy to see what I can dig up.
    Last edited by CAMBOUSA; 3 Weeks Ago at 05:31.
    Blake Griffin - Channel Manager - Cambo USA
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    Re: 90mm 4.5 APO-Digitar

    Thanks, Blake. This is all very useful information.

    John

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